Autistic woman's heart-wrenching Facebook post wins the "anti-vaxxing" argument

[KamaAina]

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/human-interest/autistic-womans-heart-wrenching-facebook-post-wins-the-anti-vaxxing-argument/

Still the ignorance rambles on. Science be damned. We’d rather expose our children to the risk of disease and death than have them turn out autistic. Even though there is absolutely zero evidence to back the vaccination claim, fear and lack of education have caused a deadly outbreak of measles and mumps both here in the US and abroad in what we consider “civilized” countries.

Have you ever wondered how an autistic person may feel about the issue? Many people are under the impression that autistic people are mentally incapable of coherent thought. They view autism as a completely debilitating disease rather than a neurological disorder.

A recent shared post on the Facebook page. This Week in Pseudoscience was met with a comment by a twenty-two year-old autistic woman who managed to put the issue into perspective from the vantage point of someone who feels like there are those who would rather see their children dead than “suffer” the horrible consequences of raising a child like her....

I am autistic and it never ceases to amaze me how scared anti-vaxxers are of autism. How they have no idea how completely ridiculous and offensive they are being I will never understand. They rather have dead children than have children like me and that just makes me sad, especially since that fear has absolutely no basis and puts so many lives at risk. I think about my mom and dad saying and doing the things they do and I feel very defeated and worthless. I can’t imagine how the autistic children of anti-vaxxers feel!

[louis-t]

1. I'm curious. Anti-vaxxers have the statistic that says cases of autism

are increasing. They also have the statistic that less people are getting their kids vaccinated. Do they have a statistic that says the number of autism cases is now dropping?

[KamaAina]

2. Good one!

[central scrutinizer]

4. data, shmata

unverified anecdotes carry so much more weight

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. They will tell you no one has done the research...

...because, like any conspiracy theory, all one needs to do to weasel one's way around the data is claim that those collecting the data are "bought".

[Blanks]

81. They tell me that the CDC is in on the conspiracy. eom

[Maedhros]

11. Oh, louis-t...

[Drunken Irishman]

24. Moreover, why isn't the autism rate among adults born in the 50s and 60s higher?

...when most everyone and their dog was vaccinated?

[jwirr]

37. And what about before the vaccines were available? Were there autistic people then? Has anyone

bothered to continue the research after the false research was used to start all these lies?

[Lucky Luciano]

41. Stop. Just stop now.

You have already surpassed the intellectual capabilities of the people that need to understand your point.

[BlueJazz]

42. THAT'S the Elephant in the room that anti-vaxxers don't want to incorporate into their thinking.

[LeftishBrit]

45. Moreover, if mercury is the cause...

why wasn't there a huge rate of autism in the 19th and early 20th century, when children were given mercury in undeniably dangerous quantities in medicines and even teething powders? Or maybe there was; but that would go against the 'Oh Horrors, There is a Modern Epidemic!' theory.

[KamaAina]

54. I was born in '64.

[classykaren]

68. Because they give many more shots to kids now than they did in the fifties and during a closer

period of time.

[AngryDem001]

26. That's the thing about stats.

You can make up a stat that "proves" anything.

These anti-vax morons think that their "stats" are proof that vaccines cause autism.

Well, I could very well make up a stat that "proves" that seatbelts cause death in motor vehicle accidents.

[imthevicar]

66. If you are talking about

The Copenhagen Study, It was terribly flawed, almost from the start. Too many parameters had been changed while the study was on going. So anything based on this study statistically, is flawed as well. while I'm Not an anti Vaccine person, I don't like that the US has the Highest Number of Vaccines recommended to children under 1 Y/O (26). While Japan, Denmark, Sweden, Etc... Recommend only 12 for the same age group, preferring to stretch out the time of the vaccinations. Are their any reported elevated rates of illness because of this longer vaccination schedule? I don't know, have their been any studies? I have not read or seen any. So Is stretching the time of vaccinations out, of some benefit to the seemingly over taxed Immune system of an Infant. I don't know! has their been a study about this? I've never heard of one. Without this kind of information we are all just shooting from the hip. What I do know is the US standing as compared to the rest of the worlds infant mortality rate is 47th. Hardly Stellar and Vaccine schedules might be a factor. Again I don't know because their have been no studies on this ether.

The blanket statement to "vaccinate everyone" is dead wrong. Their are children who are so sensitive to the egg used to produce the vaccines they can die. The DPT shots were known to cause surface bleeding on the brain of some children. Parents went to jail because of this. are their any Identifying markers to spot this kind of sensitivity before this can happen again? I Don't know, Why? no study. Alternatives Must be forthcoming. Any exceptions to vaccinations need to be studied and well thought out. This is a Conundrum I don't have any answers for, Just lots and lots of questions.

[Douglas Carpenter]

3. knr

[wordpix]

5. shouldn't the issue be about mercury in the vaxx?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/patient-ed/conversations/downloads/vacsafe-thimerosal-color-office.pdf

Thimerasol containing mercury for preservative in vaccines is now banned by FDA except for some flu vaccines. There had to have been a link there or it would still be in wide use.

[Curmudgeoness]

7. See the pic of the day on the home page

for the explanation of the "link". It says it all in a few words.

[AllyCat]

30. Sorry, responded to wrong post. self-delete

[Mika]

8. That, aluminium, and the timing of vaxing of infants.

Shhhh. Not acceptable to discuss reality - especially if it hurts big pharma's stockholders dividends.

[hr]

Unfortunately some vaccines also contain an aluminum adjuvant, which is also neurotoxic, although less so than mercury. Neil Z. Miller of the Thinktwice Global Vaccine Institute points out that the number of vaccines with aluminum has increased:

“The hepatitis B vaccine given at birth contains 250 mcg of aluminum – 20 times higher than safety levels … Babies who have followed the CDC immunization schedule are injected with nearly 5000 mcg (5 mg) of aluminum by 18 months of age.”[3]

You will also find that MSG, a neurotoxin, is a component of some vaccines. The flu vaccine continues to be preserved with mercury, and is recommended by official governmental policy most strongly for the very young and the very old, precisely those least able to deal with the extra toxic load.

Some biological dentists will say that no child should be vaccinated until all the “adult” teeth have erupted. Before then, the theory goes, the immature immune system cannot handle vaccines well.

The statistics that used to tell us the rate of autism was 1 in 150 – have changed dramatically. In October 2009, two government studies raised the estimates of childhood autism from 1 in 150 to 1 in 91. In December 2009, the CDC officially pegged it at 1 in 110. Boys are four times more likely than girls to be diagnosed; 1 in 58. Studies suggest testosterone has an affinity for mercury. 2005 research has shown that testosterone significantly potentiates mercury toxicity, whereas estrogen is protective.[4]

http://arizonaadvancedmedicine.com/autism/

[Dr Hobbitstein]

9. Two words.

Bull and shit.

The site you link to is nothing more than woo. Articles about Jenny McCarthy, fasting/juicing as a cancer treatment, and linking vaccines to autism are usually a dead giveaway that you're reading a bullshit anti-science site.

And dentists giving vaccination advice?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

15. If you can't win an argument with facts,

then you opponent MUST be a shill for "big pharma".

Keep posting links to articles about dentists and Jenny McCarthy opposing vaccines.

[Maedhros]

14. The Arizona Center for Advanced Medicine does not perform original research.

They are a treatment clinic:

A Diversified Integrative Medical Center
Combining Traditional & Alternative Medicine to Fastrack Your Road to Health

The Arizona Center for Advanced Medicine is the Southwest’s most diversified integrative medical center. Located in Scottsdale, Arizona, the Functional Medicine trained practitioners integrate the best of alternative and traditional medicine to educate and empower you on the road to health. No other holistic center utilizes as many medical services under one roof. Led by Medical Director Martha Grout, MD, MD(H), the center is dedicated to the reversal of chronic illness. We treat some 300 conditions, including cancer, Lyme disease, diabesity (cardiometabolic syndrome) and irritable bowel. We draw upon disciplines as diverse as genetic testing and Chinese Medicine, to colonics and cancer treatment. We have mastered a wide breadth of diagnostic abilities and treatments.

Their article is simply one interpretation of research done by others. Certainly worth consideration, but not the last word on the subject. Quite speculative, to my eye, but my background is in geochemistry and not medicine.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

18. They practice homeopathy there...

They're woo practitioners, nothing more. Chelation, accupuncture, hypnosis, "energy medicine". Yeah...

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Do you eat bread? Look at the ingredients. It contains an aluminum adjuvant too.

It's called BAKING POWDER.

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. Discussion is killing people!

On Tue Feb 3, 2015, 02:38 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

That, aluminium, and the timing of vaxing of infants.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6174675

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Inappropriate - link to anti-vax woo woo site.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Feb 3, 2015, 02:50 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I have mixed feelings on this posst. Since there is autism in my husband's family, I am aware that it is mostly a genetic problem. Other causes of autism have been suggested, but are thin on evidence. I think it best to get the misconceptions out in the open and allow the DU members the chance to debunk unsupported claims. BTW, jsut calling it "woo" isn't debunking anything. Explain why it is "woo," and give details.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Anti vaxxers should be banned from DU.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, it is. And it's OTT, or otherwise inappropriate. We need to stop these anti-vax people on DU and the woo they are spreading. It's killing people!

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

22. Juror #3 is missing the point here...

The facts on vaccines and autism have been around since the late 90s. They have been studied NUMEROUS times, with the same outcome. It's been discussed and decided. How the fuck can you make an ignorant asshat believe something that they REFUSE to believe? Facts in their face, must be a shill for big pharma.

[zappaman]

28. I was number 4 and I stand by my statement.

If we don't welcome climate change deniers, why would anti-vaxxers be okay?
They are just as fucking stupid.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

35. +1

[kcr]

44. Good vote

[Chellee]

50. Thank you.

Well said.

[SunSeeker]

51. Exactly right. nt

[NutmegYankee]

64. +1. NT

[SomeGuyInEagan]

65. Yep. n/t

[Blanks]

83. I'm not sure I agree...

There are levels/layers of vaccine opponents. There is some room for discussion with people who argue that the pharmaceutical industry has too much influence in the government and on the airwaves.

Climate change deniers seem to come in one flavor. The 'it isn't happening due to man' flavor.

Sure, the folks who won't stop with the 'thimerasol causes autism argument' (despite it not having been used for years) and there are those that insist that it was clean water and fresh fruit (or whatever) that stopped epidemics instead of vaccines, yeah they need to go, and quickly.

However, unlike climate change, there is a complexity to the vaccine debate that leaves room for policy discussion about how drugs are approved and how much responsibility big pharma should have for damages done by vaccines. It is an established fact that some people are damaged by vaccines and are compensated for that damage (even death in some instances).

There's not an equivalent complexity to the climate change debate IMHO.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. "The flu vaccine continues to be preserved with mercury"

That's not true. ONLY the multi-dose vial contains it. All single-dose vials do not have it, because nobody needs to stick a needle repeatedly into it, risking introducing staph, or other invaders.

[SidDithers]

29. A staggeringly dumb article...

from an anti-vax website promoting articles by anti-vax asshat David Kirby, among others.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Article_of_the_Weak/Evidence_of_Harm


Was this post supposed to do something other than identify you as one of DU's anti-vaxxers?

Sid

[HERVEPA]

32. This was left to stand by 4-3 vote. Lots of unimformed folks here.

[bettyellen]

59. Creative speculstion is thataway --->

Sourcing matters in GD, no woo. That link was from Wooville.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

10. Thimerasol was removed from vaccines due to public demand.

It was pulled BEFORE studies were done. After studies were done, it was deemed safe. Also, thimerasol was never in the MMR vaccine, which is the one that dumbshit anti-vaxxers point to.

You can thank Andrew Wakefield, the asshat quack who falsified reports and published a study linking MMR vax and autism with the intent to get HIS MMR vax in use and the Merck one pulled. His study was later retracted, and his license to practice medicine was revoked.

[AllyCat]

31. ^^^This

[LeftishBrit]

43. Also, Wakefield was not concerned with mercury

There are two totally different theories: (1) Wakefield's theory that the measles component of the MMR vaccine is a risk factor for autism, and therefore, illogically, that a single measles vaccine (such as the one that he was trying to patent!) would be safer; and (2) the theory put forward by some American vaccine critics that the mercury preservative is the risk factor. These are not the same theory, or even particularly compatible theories: the MMR vaccine never contained any mercury. But, especially since Wakefield moved to America, there has been a lot of cross-fertilization between the two theories.

There is evidence against both theories. The MMR was shown not to cause autism, when it was withdrawn and then reintroduced in Japan, without any effect on autism rates. And the mercury theory was contradicted by the fact that mercury was removed from almost all vaccines that did contain it (flu vaccines do sometimes contain it; but, at least in the UK, children who get the flu vaccine usually get a nasal spray which does not have any mercury preservative); and yet autism rates did not go down.

Moreover, while autism is more frequently diagnosed than in the past, this seems to be mainly due to greater awareness of autism, combined with some changes in diagnostic criteria. 30 or 40 years ago, people with higher functioning autism or Asperger syndrome tended to be diagnosed as 'emotionally disturbed', 'maladjusted', 'language delayed' or often just 'a bit odd'; and people with severe autism tended to be regarded as simply 'mentally handicapped' or as 'childhood schizophrenics': a diagnosis almost never used now. A recent study in the UK indicated that, when people of all ages were assessed according to current diagnostic criteria, there was a similar incidence of autism in all age groups: about one per cent. The only difference was that the children often already had an autistic spectrum diagnosis, while adults often had other diagnoses or none.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. No, it isn't. It's only present in the multi-dose vials now as a preservative.

And even though it's been removed from ALL other vaccines, no change in the autism rate.

So the 'link' was imaginary, made up by Andrew Wakefield. His 'paper' claiming to document the link was fully fabricated lies.

If there was a link, we'd already be seeing a decline in the autism rate. We aren't. Because Thimerasol wasn't the problem.

[Warpy]

36. If there had been a link, we'd have seen a decline in diagnosed autism

We didn't.

Therefore, no link.

[Ms. Toad]

79. Flu vaccines - including vaccines approved for use by children as young as 6 months

and some forms of the TD (tetanus-diptheria) vaccine still include thimerosal.

Essentially, all vaccines which have more than one dose in the vial require preservatives (typically thimerosal). And banned also means below a certain threshold, not zero.

So if you are concerned about mercury in your vaccines you need to confirm with your doctor that the vaccine is being drawn from a single-dose vial. And, to be really sure, you need to check the DC website which lists all vaccines and the mercury content and verify the manufacturer and name.

(Not advocating one way or the other - but I believe it is important for people to have accurate information to be able make decisions for themselves and their families.)

[Spiggitzfan]

20. I have Aspergers. Vaccinate your kids!!!

First of all, the "link" between Autism and vaccinations has been repeatedly disproven. There is NO connection. Secondly, this lady on Facebook is correct- the whole "movement" paints people with Autism Spectrum Disorders as undesirables. It is insulting.
The anti-science trend in America is hysterical, alarming, and usually hateful. "Hurricanes are caused by LGBT!" "Autism is caused by vaccines!" "High crime rates are caused by single mothers!" My childhood vaccinations did NOT contribute to my Aspergers, and if anti-Vax people actually had an Aspie around they would never suffer such illogical bad science. If vaccinations did cause autism or Aspergers (which they DON'T) adding a bit of Aspergers logic and calm would actually be doing these fear-mongering nuts a favor.

[KamaAina]

21. Welcome to DU, fellow spectrumite!

[Spiggitzfan]

23. Hi!

[Dr Hobbitstein]

25. Welcome to DU!

My daughter is Aspie, and while her developmental psych was diagnosing her, we came to the conclusion that I probably am as well (although not as extreme as her). The stigma about autism is unnerving. Even extreme cases can be manageable (ie, Temple Grandin).

[Spiggitzfan]

40. Yeah, Aspie have a spectrum too.

Both of my parents probably are Aspies. And you're right, there are pretty effective ways of dealing with almost all but the most severe problems. My life has not been perfect or necessarily easy, but I took my first university course at 13 (Probability And Statistics) & was in a state symphony orchestra at 16. I don't deal perfectly with people but I have found that most people are pretty understanding and nice. The worst health conditions I have have nothing to do with Autism. So Aspergers has its plusses and negatives. And I didn't have to worry about dying of Measles.

[janlyn]

27. Well said fellow aspie!

[Spiggitzfan]

38. Thank you.

[Warpy]

33. Correct, and diverting money to investigating Wakefield's claims has diverted it away

from research into more appropriate treatments. By now, we might have medications that would allow autistic people and Aspies to cope with sensory overload without a meltdown, especially for kids.

I agree that most of the Aspies I've gotten to know over the years would devastate the average medically ignorant, self righteous antivaxer by letting them know in no uncertain terms that (1) science works and bullshit doesn't, (2) Aspies aren't particularly broken, so there is no crying need to fix them and (3) thimerosal was removed from vaccines over a decade ago and the diagnosis rate continues to climb.

If anything comes out of this, I hope it's that California reinstitutes common sense public health policy that keeps antivaxer kids out of day cares and public schools. That silly "conscience" exemption has gotten them nothing but outbreaks of easily prevented diseases.

[AllyCat]

34. Well said and welcome!

[Spiggitzfan]

39. Thank you.

[Aristus]

49. Welcome!

[greatlaurel]

61. Thank you for your insights and wisdom.

The anti-science attitudes are dangerous. Your point about the attitudes toward people with Autism Spectrum Disorders being insulting is especially poignant and moving to me. I have already shared your post withing someone else who also thought this was insightful and moving.

Thanks again and welcome to DU. I look forward to your future posts.

[LeftishBrit]

46. k&r

[DonCoquixote]

47. K and R with tears in my eyes

Honestly, what this is saying is that people hate autistics so much they would rather risk killing babies thatn have them grow up to be like us. What's next, will we have to wear some symbol to make it easier for us to be put down?

[TimeToEvolve]

48. the anti-science and anti-intellectual culture of this simpleton redneck nation is headache inducing

these troglodytes and luddites are scared shitless of the chemicals in vaccines; even though the autism link has been busted repeatedly


yet they seem to have no problem with the PROVEN toxicity of the water-contaminating chemicals used in fracking, oil-drilling, metal mining, coal power, toxic waste dumps, pipelines, factory farms, Monsanto agriculture, the list goes on and on and on......

they must be incapable of experiencing cognitive dissonance. GET A BRAIN MORANS!

[Jefferson23]

52. Never ceases to amaze me, either. K&R +100

[mackerel]

53. Do DU members really want to ban anti-vaccine members from DU?

It just seems that since most of us are democrats we should be more willing to allow difference in opinion especially since discussion doesn't ever hurt anyone. I don't think the anti-vaccine posters here are trying to flame anyone.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

55. It's not a "difference in opinion"

One side has science and evidence on its side while the other pushes discredited medical "studies" and anecdotal horseshit. One side has facts while the other has opinion. I'll leave it to your imagination which side is which.

And yes, if someone is promoting dangerous anti-vax rhetoric and refuses to look at the science and the evidence, then like other conspiracy nuts, they should damn well be banned from DU with the truthers, chemtrailers, and climate change deniers. There's no place at DU for people who would deliberately choose their "liberty" over my life. As someone who's immuno-compromised and put at risk by these idiotic assholes, I don't care if every last single one of them is banned from DU.

[NuclearDem]

56. Anti-vaxxers have no place on DU.

[Marr]

57. I would absolutely like to see anti-vaxx quackery banned.

It's deeply irresponsible and downright stupid.

[zappaman]

58. I do.

The same with climate change deniers.

[cleanhippie]

60. Exactly what part of the anti-vax argument warrants a platform like DU?

Can't find any part that warrants a platform like DU? Then it's quackery, like chemtrails and birthers. And like chemtrail conspiracists and birthers, there no place here for quackery.


Don't you agree?

[cab67]

67. There's a difference between discussing different opinions...

…and having empirically untrue statements set aside. Especially when they cause harm.

[alp227]

80. But shouldn't the line be drawn between differing opinions and outright stupidity?

What else is also considered a "differing opinion"?

- "OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!"
- "OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE AWAY GUNS AND PERSECUTE REPUBLICANS!"
- "SANDY HOOK WAS A HOAX TO TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS!"
- "Earth is only 10,000 years old cuz Bible said so."

If there were any valid criticisms of vaccines, they should be allowed. As opposed to the junk science pushed by the likes of Jenny McCarthy and Andrew Wakefield.

[mackerel]

84. Really? There is a lot of stupid on here regardless of McCarthy or Wakefield links.

Why not take this cyber space and educate people and begin a real discourse. I don't think it's worth it to criticize and belittle fellow Dems. I mean Monsanto is science too but we all see how bad they are.

What's wrong with criticising Pharma Corp?

[steve2470]

85. These vaccination discussions should go to Creative Speculation imho

I think the science is pretty well established.

[Unknown Beatle]

62. What Sarah Palin is to politics,

Jenny McCarthy is to vaccines. They're both clueless idiots.

[2naSalit]

63. See..?

The dumbing-down of murika is working!!

[chervilant]

69. I think it's worth noting

that many of the anti-vaxxers ground their decisions in their chosen religious mythology, sometimes extremist religious mythology.

And, to the many DUers who are mentioning the "dumbing down of America," I say that we should pity those who are so deluded. They are likely to suffer far more when the proverbial bovine excrement hits the electric motor driven rotating assembly of blades.

[jeff47]

70. No, they'll declare it a healthy medical proceedure

and sell treatments to others. Using only the finest organic, grass-fed bovine excrement.

[mmonk]

75. I am a parent of an autistic son.

I do not believe vaccinations made him autistic. We fought many battles on his behalf because was born before IDEA.

[KamaAina]

76. You must be very impressed indeed to have posted that rant three times.

[uppityperson]

82. They are all #71, computer or internet or program glitched while they were posting it once.

[NuclearDem]

77. "Toxin purges"?

You have GOT to be fucking kidding me.

Also, please learn the difference between compounds of mercury.

[KamaAina]

74. Another point to ponder: Autism is being diagnosed earlier and earlier.

As early as six months. How many shots has a six-month-old had?

[Thinkingabout]

78. The vaccines is protection for our children, this should be a no-brainer. I am a great fan of

Temple Grandin, loved the movie, learned a lot. My neighbor is 18 and has Asperger's, very inquisitive, loves the science world, and quiet a young man. I learned from the movie about their speach but did not get the knowledge to answer all his questions. In fact he is teaching me lots, he is kind and gentle and is compassinate to animals. He walks my dog and she thinks he is great.

With vaccines the danger of a child getting measles and dying is very small, the dangers of getting chickenpox and losing their sight is small, pregnant mothers getting measles and a child being born with birth defects is small, the chance of anyone getting polio is small. This should make vaccines a must with any parent, parents should not punish their children by refusing to get their children.