35 years of Bad Deal right wing ideology has convinced people that selfish stupidity is a virtue.

[Warren Stupidity]

And one of the consequences of that ethos is anti-vac idiocy.

Grow the fuck up and get your fucking shots.

[Nay]

1. Very true. A good part of it is the "you can't tell me what to do!1!!1!!" syndrome,

which seems to be rife among white Scots-Irish men especially. Then we have celebrities on shows like Oprah who expound on the whole anti-vax theme and gain credibility just by being on teevee with beloved hosts -- everything on teevee is correct, right? Right? Oprah wouldn't lie, would she??

And yes, the U.S. has always had plenty of anti-intellectualism, but now that various craziness is validated by very slick TV shows, fancy websites, etc., the unwashed masses are less able to tell truth from bullshit than ever. It used to be that crackpots had to self-publish and peddle their crazy theories all by themselves, which was costly and didn't reach many people. Now it costs nothing to make a very slick website, start a forum, sell your books and crap that way. There are no gatekeepers anymore and it means that the average person really seems to get confused easily. I mean, if you don't believe your doctor, why are you going to him/her? Why would you believe Alex Jones' website over the doctor that has loved and cared for your kids their whole lives?

[Orsino]

2. Yes. They divided and conquered us...

...persuading us that we too can be Rambo if we tote enough guns, defund schools and auction off our pensions. Yay for rugged individualism that leads to corporate bondage!

[hifiguy]

3. The systemic dumbing-down of the populace

began in earnest on 1/20/81. The M$M and the fundy "churches" (a/k/a idiocy indoctrination centers) have both played their large parts with great effectiveness.

There has always been an anti-education/anti-intellectual current in this country. Richard Hofstadter documented it decades ago, but it has become the new normal/majority opinion.

No culture that scorns education and intelligence and teachers can last very long.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. and all the children are below average.

Thanks Ronnie!

[hifiguy]

5. To understand what has happened to even elite higher education

in this country, I cannot recommend William Derisiewicz' "Excellent Sheep" highly enough. It's an easy and compelling read about a very serious topic: how even elite universities have transformed themselves into trade schools for Wall $treet and the death of the liberal arts. WD was a prof at Yale, so he knows whereof he writes.

No wonder we're fucked.

[hunter]

11. Let alone the rising cost of higher education...

[Enthusiast]

20. It has to be intentional. As a means to discourage education.

[Sanity Claws]

6. And that ignorance is a virtue

[MrScorpio]

7. I bow in your general direction.

That was short and to the muthafuckin' point.

Bravo!

[DirkGently]

8. Yes. And maybe some earned paranoia as well?

I put it pretty much the same way to a friend today -- something along the lines of an observation that there is a rising trend of people just deciding to believe whatever they wish to believe to be true. And being proud of their immunity to the facts.

Whatever they'd like to imagine is true, for one reason or another. You can "believe" in climate change or not. In women's right to control their bodies or not.

Don't like that global warming makes a case for environmental regulation? Decide that climate scientists are in the bag for Big Hippie and just deny it.

Tired of newspapers and college professors full of "facts" that cut against conservative economics and politics? They all must be "biased."

Something in Americans likes the idea of believing things no else does. We admire contrarians, up to a point. We believe in the lone nut who turns out to have been right at the end of the movie.

And my friend also pointed out that a lot of institutions have earned our mistrust. At some point a certain level of paranoia starts to feel like a reasonable world view.

We go to war over a bunk story about "aluminum tubes" leaked to a reporter and then cited as evidence by the Vice President who leaked it. A storied football program turns out to have been actively protecting a serial child predator for years. A handful of journalists admit they made up stories just for the hell of it. The CIA casually declassifies strings of crimes against humanity done in the name of the American taxpayer. The NSA is storing all of our e-mail because they say we told them they could.

And medicine? Yes, modern medicine is generally good science and generally right and generally the best we can do. Doctors are mostly right.

Mostly.

But we also have TV commercials bleating for everyone to put down the warm milk and try a "sleep aid" that may cause you to "eat, or drive or gamble while asleep." Sure, that's a reasonable risk / reward.

Or a diet pill combination or blood pressure medication that straight up kills you -- Oops. A pimple medicine that causes birth defects. Anti-depression pills that could cause "suicidal or homicidal thoughts."

"Take this, but just be aware you may feel better, or you may murder your family."

Have nice day

So maybe we've given people reasons to speculate. They've been handed a lot of bullshit lately, by a lot of people who are supposed know better.

We have killed the reliability of information, reason, logic and common sense.

So I think my friend has a point. While I'm as angry as anyone that a single person might die from Measles or Mumps because a couple of "celebrities" and a defrocked English doctor came up with a wild mythology about autism, maybe we should be just as angry about the overall breakdown of reason and the casual destruction of the truth we see every day.

[CANDO]

12. I quible with just one thing you said...

"A storied football program turns out to have been actively protecting a serial child predator for years."

A massive broad brush there. To this day, we have a convicted ped in jail and 3 people going to trial as to their role in possibly covering for a former coach. We have a dead former head coach who may or may not have wanted to believe what was going on. A "program" implicates a ton of people. If you think that the many tens of thousands of people attending games and supporting a team were actually even aware, much less knew of and supported covering for a pedophile, you are guilty of "believing" something rather than searching for the truth. I think it is a horrific crime perpetrated by a sick individual, who may have had a small number of key people who willingly were in denial that this was happening. I don't believe they "actively" looked the other way. More like they were in active denial. And for the snide vitriol of the self righteous who cast their ignorance toward anyone or anything associated with PSU, what have you done lately for children's safety? Probably not much, except maybe post bullshit on a message forum.

[DirkGently]

18. Quibble back. That institution was fully guilty.

Thousands of fans are not a football program. A football program is the people who run it, and when the head coach knows another coach is fiddling with naked children in the shower, and tells yet another staff member to stay quiet, it's fair to say the program is corrupt.

The whole impact of the story to me was it was not one bad apple, any more than the Catholic Church's problems were due to a few individuals.

Once the higher ups know and do nothing, you have a corrupt institution on your hands. Corruptions doesn't require every single member's affirmative participation in the wrongdoing. Just a failure at the top to take responsibility.

You don't think the trust was shaken? I'd have to disagree.

[hifiguy]

9. Neil deGrasse Tyson tells the truth

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”

Failure to heed this simple maxim could result in The New Dark Ages and probably will.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

10. Everytime I talk with a right wingnut

I tell them to "grow the fuck up"

Works every time. They vote a straight D ticket for evermore. The start fighting global warming. They march for gun control. You just would not believe the changes I have seen.

Keep up the good work.

[hunter]

13. One reaches a point it's not worth the effort.

"Grow the fuck up," at least puts the anti-intellectual fool on notice you will no longer tolerate their crap.

If you have an effective cure for cruel and deliberate adult ignorance, or hateful religious fudamentalism, or fascist-racist-gun-humping-badge-licking-white-right-wing-nationalist-whack-a-doodlery, then by all means, please proceed...

[SoLeftIAmRight]

14. yes - I know that feeling.

Thank you - I will.

[Brigid]

16. "You can't fix stupid."

-- Ron White

[Warren Stupidity]

17. You do not persuade anyone with logic and reason.

That is a hard truth that liberals still don't get, 35 years into the Bad Deal.

[GeorgeGist]

15. Reagan made Selfish Stupidity respectable.

If you read his original thoughts on why he became a Republican, it's pure selfish stupidity.

[Skittles]

19. Reagan made greed and ignorance fashionable

America has still not recovered

[Nye Bevan]

21. Mississippi has the highest vaccination rates out of all of the states.

I'm not sure that mostvof the anti-vax idiocy springs from right-wing ideology.

[KingCharlemagne]

22. Until now, I had not made the connectionb between the ideology and anti-vax, so I

appreciate your bringing it to our attention. (Before this, I had seen it as a crisis of legitimacy in traditional institutions, like the scientific establishment, but without considering what might have produced that crisis of legitimacy.)

I must say that, after Katrina, I drew the lesson that we really are all on our own. I don't know whether I'd call that 'selfish stupidity' or simply 'realistic appraisal,' but I still like the way you put it and I agree with you that it dates back to Reagan.