The Russian "rebels" call their enemies "the Ukrainians" as the slaughter continues on Europe's edge

[uhnope]

Putin and his sympathizers pretend that the war in Ukraine is a civil war, but the pro-Russian proxies refer to the enemy as "the Ukrainians."

The Russian mercenaries are very happy these days with lots of new stuff from Russia:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/world/europe/on-front-lines-in-ukraine-rebels-are-upbeat-and-eager-to-advance.html?_r=0

“There are the Ukrainians,” said the commander, whose real name is Pavel and who asked that his surname not be used, for fear of reprisals. His fighters call him Batya, an endearment for father in Russian and a common nom de guerre for rebel commanders in eastern Ukraine.

The smack of artillery fire rose from a village in the valley below, captured just a few days earlier by Batya’s rebels. A nearby crack, a tense pause, then a distant thud somewhere beyond the lake.

“Sometimes, at night, they come at us with their tanks,” Batya said. “But we do not let them advance.”
...
Now, powered by what Western officials say was a fresh injection of Russian aid last month, the rebels feel they have the upper hand.

[Fred Sanders]

1. The "Russians" and the "rebels" and the "Ukrainians" and the "West" and "media" are all "lying".

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. " the rebels feel they have the upper hand"

Apparently they have not yet read of the US sending heavy weapons into Ukraine.

another damn proxy war.

[Igel]

7. Neither has anybody else.

Right now the question is whether to supply defensive weapons. That's where they're at. No word on news sites in Ukraine on any NATO weaponry being seen anywhere, and the Ukr have a wide variety of news sites, some independent, some alternative, some pro-Russian and some anti-Russian.

That would include anti-tank weapons, no doubt. Probably not M1 tanks or cruise missiles.

[Xithras]

3. There has always been an ethnic component to the fight.

There are over 8 million ethnic Russians within the borders of Ukraine, most of whom live in the eastern area where the fighting is heaviest. Very few of them are fighting on behalf of the Ukrainians.

But beyond that, these areas have declared their independence and consider themselves to be the army of the independent Donetsk Republic and Luhansk. From their perspective, the "Ukrainians" are now a foreign army on their soil. It's no shock that they'd address them that way. These people no longer consider themselves Ukrainian in any sense of the term.

[uhnope]

4. before the Russian invasion, no one in those areas talked of seceding.

It's not the local civilians calling the enemy "Ukrainians," it's the Russian mercenary commanders, the same ones who called the Kiev government "miserable" "jews" this week: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141004141

[Xithras]

5. First off, the Ukrainians have admitted that there's no invasion.

While there may be Russian weapons on the ground, most of the actual fighters are from the 8 million Russians who populate the area. One of the Ukrainian generals just confirmed that again yesterday.

Second, there were thousands of people staging mass protests against Kiev in Donetsk and Kharkiv BEFORE the violence broke out, and thousands held protests to RETURN Yanukovych to power even after he fled. There were also plenty of people calling for secession if Yankuovich were deposed, before the deposition actually happened. You have to remember that he was born and raised in Donetsk, and that support for him was always strongest there.

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that everything was peachy until Big Bad Mother Russia poked her nose into it.

[uhnope]

6. Whaaat??? + you've changed the subject.

This:

First off, the Ukrainians have admitted that there's no invasion.

what??????

I didn't say there weren't protests in the country before. I said there was no secession movement. The Russian-speaking Ukrainians wanted to stay as Ukrainians--that has been a constant since the collapse of the USSR.

It was the Russian warmaking that suddenly made these areas "New Russia," or as you say, "these areas have declared their independence."

Everything I've seen showed that most Ukrainians wanted peace and friendly relations with both Russia and the West/EU. It was that last part that caused Russia to start their proxy war of annexation and occupation.