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uhnope

(6,419 posts)
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 07:14 PM Feb 2015

Weep for Greece: their new political leaders are conspiracy nuts tied to Russian fascists

Listen to these words from Greece’s new Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras: “We should not accept or recognize the government of neo-Nazis in Ukraine.”

This is the most widespread BS since the Obama birth certificate canard. The new Ukrainian government had a small minority of far right parties in it; after the latest elections in November this factor has dwindled even more. This "Ukraine Nazi government" stuff is propaganda spread by the Kremlin, part of its many (conflicting) false narratives it presents to whitewash its war on Ukraine and cover up its plundering of the Ukraine by its puppets before they were ousted. Oh did I just mention Russia?
The new Greek government has protested the latest EU denunciation of Russia, saying that the attack on Russia was reported in the media as if the decision was unanimous, whereas in fact, Greece, Slovakia, Hungary and Austria objected.

Hmm and why would Greece be going to bat for Russia?
New Greek Government Has Deep, Long-Standing Ties With Russian 'Fascist' Dugin
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Weep for Greece: their new political leaders are conspiracy nuts tied to Russian fascists (Original Post) uhnope Feb 2015 OP
You know who else can be tied to Russian fascists? Saint RayGun. and Dim Son Vincardog Feb 2015 #1
Why do you think they would say that? FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #2
A Russian base in a NATO country? Nope. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #3
How long before Greece is out of the EU and NATO? FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #4
Here's the reason that won't happen, and why everyone should be thankful that it won't: NuclearDem Feb 2015 #5
Good point. FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #6
If so, it's money wasted MFrohike Feb 2015 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author MFrohike Feb 2015 #7
Right MFrohike Feb 2015 #8
Excellent post. Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #9
Stated very well, thank you. n/t Jefferson23 Feb 2015 #10
Thank you. polly7 Feb 2015 #13
Pretty much MFrohike Feb 2015 #15
I don't think anyone who matters wants to restore demand, or lean on Merkel. or put the far ND-Dem Feb 2015 #20
Excellent post malaise Feb 2015 #14
Yep MFrohike Feb 2015 #16
Ouch Ramses Feb 2015 #17
Great post. Manifest Destiny Feb 2015 #18
Thank you. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #19
Outstanding and necessary response to this shameful OP. woo me with science Feb 2015 #21
+1000 G_j Feb 2015 #22
More Kremlin Bullshit Teutonic Samuel Feb 2015 #12

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
2. Why do you think they would say that?
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 08:09 PM
Feb 2015

Obviously, they have a behind the scenes agreement for deficit financing with Russia in exchange for stopping or voting against sanctions. That also allows them to talk tough to the EU on debt relief.

Russia will probably end up with a new base in Greece soon in exchange for a few billion dollars in bailout money.



FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
4. How long before Greece is out of the EU and NATO?
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 08:15 PM
Feb 2015

and how much bailout money would it take for that to happen?

This government has promised no austerity and has no plan to cover their deficit spending and no more loans will be coming from the EU. There is only one way out. Leave the EU, get a massive bailout from someone in exchange for something equally big.

Putin would love to separate Greece from NATO and, even though he doesnt' have the extra cash, would be willing to spend for that outcome.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
11. If so, it's money wasted
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 09:36 PM
Feb 2015

The new Greek government has already supported new sanctions on Russia as of a couple of days ago.

Response to uhnope (Original post)

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
8. Right
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 09:30 PM
Feb 2015

I'll set aside the source, which is extremely dubious. We'll just forget that that it's a propaganda arm of the US government, which has a long, long history of rabid opposition to the political left around the world. Ok?

Even leaving the above aside, which is quite hard, this "article" comes off as a badly written smear. Why? Well, the first embedded link is the first reason. It links to another "article" on the site, which ham-handedly implies that Greece will single-handedly wreck the EU's policy toward Russia. The date on this "article" is Feb. 5, 2015. Why is that important? Well, the Greeks did agree to further sanctions against Russia a couple of days ago. I guess the good people at Voice of America were too busy making shit up to bother reading the news on that one. Whoops!

The second reason it's a smear is the lame attempt to paint Syriza as a crypto-fascist party by constantly alluding to advisors and allies. I have no trouble believing influential Russians, up to and including Putin himself, would try to make nice with the various far right parties in Europe AND with Syriza. Why? Well, Syriza, and the far right, have both made a big issue out of austerity and the anti-democratic nature of the current EU administration. Russia is having trouble with Europe right now, so it would make sense to court elements in Europe that could create problems for the current regime (regimes, really, but you get my meaning). This doesn't mean that Syriza is the same as Le Pen or the rest, it just means they happen to agree on one thing. Hell, the vast majority of Democrats and a whole ton of tea partiers have agreed, and probably still agree, that the blank check of TARP was a terrible idea. That agreement doesn't make them the same.

The third reason it's a smear is the total and complete silence on the actual, admitted fascist party of Greece: Golden Dawn. See, those boys actually do the salutes and wear the jackboots. They murder immigrants, bully the weak, and act like lowlife thugs while pimping a line of national renewal kind of like a certain Austrian we'll not name. Why not mention the repeated clashes between Golden Dawn and Syriza over the last few years? Why not mention that Syriza, when confronted with actual fascists, has repeatedly opposed and fought them? Oh right, that would kill the narrative. After all, why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

In short, your source sucks. It's badly written, incompetently researched, and is so transparently biased, by its glaring omissions, that its authors really should be getting offers from National Review or Fox very soon.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
13. Thank you.
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 09:41 PM
Feb 2015

Even though I don't agree with sanctions against Russia at all - I believe economic terrorism only really hurts those who can least afford it - spreading this crap against Greece just shows that the same people wanting to ramp up hatred for all Russians are trying to do the same for Greeks - but why? I think the answer is simple, personally.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
15. Pretty much
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 10:39 PM
Feb 2015

I'm not a fan of the sanctions, primarily because of the destructive effect they're having on Europe. Europe is in slow-motion collapse as it is and the far right is on the rise as a result. That and Putin just isn't the boogeyman the hype makes him. He's got some capability, to be sure, but this ain't the old days. The old joke about the Red Army only needing shoes to reach the Atlantic just isn't true anymore. He can cause some problems on his own borders, but that's the extent of it. It'd make more sense to lean on Merkel and co. to being restoring demand in Europe, so that they can put the far right to rest and make life better for their people.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
20. I don't think anyone who matters wants to restore demand, or lean on Merkel. or put the far
Thu Feb 5, 2015, 12:25 AM
Feb 2015

right to rest.

Therein lies the problem.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
14. Excellent post
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 09:51 PM
Feb 2015

By the way the Golden Dawn folks (including their leader) have been arrested and charged with several crimes including murder.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
16. Yep
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 10:40 PM
Feb 2015

Like I said, they're lowlifes. I don't quite get how people fixate on supposed fascists when the actual ones are in the streets around Europe.

 

Ramses

(721 posts)
17. Ouch
Wed Feb 4, 2015, 11:55 PM
Feb 2015

Thats going to leave a mark. I guess not all of us are so quick to buy the propaganda. Good thing too.

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