"There are more black men under correctional control today than were under slavery in 1850"

[kpete]

What John Legend said about slavery at the Oscars

Here are the numbers:

In 1850, there were 872,924 black men (16 or older) who were enslaved in the US, according to the Census.

As of December 31, 2013, there were about 526,000 black men in state and federal prisons in the US.

In 2013, there were about 877,000 black men on probation, and 280,000 black men on parole (according to a Bureau of Justice Statistics source cited by Politifact).

The Bureau of Justice Statistics doesn't break down jail populations by both race and gender, but 86 percent of all 730,000 jail residents in 2013 were male, and 36 percent were black. So it seems plausible that at least a couple hundred thousand black men are in jail.

The totals: 1.68 million black men are under correctional control in the US, not counting jails. That's over three times as many black men as were enslaved in 1850.

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2014/dec/07/diego-arene-morley/brown-u-student-leader-more-african-american-men-p/

MORE:
http://www.vox.com/2015/2/23/8088989/john-legend-oscars-speech-quote

[ananda]

1. That is sobering to consider.

Wow

[boomer55]

2. There's also a helluva lot more humans on the planet as well

[Orrex]

3. What percentage of the overall black male population does/did that represent?

Pretty fucking disgusting numbers.


k/r

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. Important question.....that would adjust for the population variance between then and now.

Which is not to take away from the fact that the correctional system in our country IS racist as hell.

[NYC Liberal]

16. It's not even close: 90% enslaved in 1850 vs 4% incarcerated today

1850 enslaved / population:
3,204,313¹ / 3,600,000

2010 incarcerated / population:
1,680,000 / 38,900,000²

BUT. That does not in any way mean there isn't a huge fucking problem with incarceration and disenfranchisement.

[madokie]

4. That sucks

making criminals is what it is. You can't tell me that we got here fair and balanced, no way.

[unblock]

5. interestingly, i heard on the radio about women's wage equality and suicide prevention

but nothing about this.

hmm.

[davidn3600]

7. Our population is much, much larger today than in 1850

So it's sort of a bad play on the statistics.

However, the stats are that 1 out of 3 black men will at some point in life be arrested. Compare that to 1 out of 17 white men. The reasons for that are vast and are very widely debated. But there are many different issues there ranging from poor police practices, inadequate representation at trial, and a failed war on drugs.

[pnwmom]

18. That's the incarceration rate, not the arrest rate (not that that excuses anything).

The disparity in arrests isn't as wide.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-01/uosc-sho010314.php

Nearly half of black males and almost 40 percent of white males in the U.S. are arrested by age 23, which can hurt their ability to find work, go to school and participate fully in their communities.

A new study released Monday (Jan. 6) in the journal Crime & Delinquency provides the first contemporary findings on how the risk of arrest varies across race and gender, says Robert Brame, a criminology professor at the University of South Carolina and lead author of the study.

The study is an analysis of national survey data from 1997 to 2008 of teenagers and young adults, ages 18󈞃, and their arrest histories, which run the gamut from truancy and underage drinking to more serious and violent offenses. The study excludes arrests for minor traffic violations.

Most striking are the race differences revealed in the study, Brame says. In particular, the research points to a higher prevalence of arrest among black males and little race variation in arrest rates among females.

SNIP

[Oklahoma_Liberal]

63. Maybe we should discourage them from committing crimes.

It seems to me that the likelihood of being arrested is linked with the propensity to commit crime.

[pnwmom]

64. Not necessarily. Some neighborhoods have a heavier police presence than others,

which raises the risk that a person living there will be arrested, whether he actually committed a crime or not.

[Vietnameravet]

8. Maybe it has something to do with the breakdown of the black family

or is that heresy to say?

[Lex]

9. Maybe it has to do with black men being convicted at higher rates than white men

for the exact same crimes. And getting longer and harsher sentences for the same crimes.

[MH1]

12. Maybe "the breakdown of the black family" has something to do with the disproportional arrest rate?

And the locking up of so many black men over stupid shit that whites would not be locked up over, or stupid shit (like a little pot, for example) that NO ONE should be locked up over, in the first place?

Blacks are more likely to be arrested, more likely to be held, more likely to be convicted, and more likely to serve longer sentences than whites in similar circumstances. It's not that none of these arrests and convictions are valid, it's just that the system consistently penalizes blacks more harshly than whites.

It's got to have an effect on the social fabric, don't you think?

[awoke_in_2003]

60. +1000. nt

[RedCappedBandit]

14. Heh, I think you got it backwards.

[JDPriestly]

23. But maybe the "breakdown" of the black family has to do with the high incarceration rate?

It is easy to convict people of theft, breaking and entering, assault, etc. (drugs, graffiti, shoplifting, spousal abuse and on and on) the crimes that we call violent and easy to see.

It is hard to prove and convict people of white-color crimes. We did not convict many of the Wall Street crooks and bankers of theft, breaking and entering, assault, etc. although their fraudulent schemes nearly brought down the world economy.

My comment does not justify the violent crimes of theft, breaking and entering, assault, etc. It just is intended to throw some light on the numbers.

I want to add that the crimes of black men are often the crimes of the poor: vagrancy, etc.

[Vietnameravet]

43. There is a lot of truth to what you say but

black fathers have got to accept responsibility for their children and far too many black homes are headed by a black single woman..and the father is no where to be seen..

And yes the system is unjust but part of the problem is not just racism..

[JustAnotherGen]

53. Black fathers DO accept responsibility

I just served on a jury and provided you with a link. You need to educate yourself beyond all that you've been told.

If anything - they might be more hands on and present than other race fathers.

And it is called NEW Jim Crow. You should read up on that too. You have a lot to learn!

[JDPriestly]

58. Much of the problem is racism.

In my neighborhood black fathers are present in their families. (I live in a racially mixed neighborhood in Los Angeles.)

But if a kid is from a Spanish-speaking or black family, he is more likely to be spotted and viewed as a criminal even by Spanish-speaking and black police officers. We make assumptions about people based on how they look,, and race is a major factor.

I am an older, white woman who grew up in the Midwest and the South. I remember Jim Crow. It is a legacy that is only one generation away. Racism is still very much alive. I don't know what can be done about it but it is. And, on top of that, as I explained the most obvious, most easily detected and prosecuted crimes are those of the poor -- petty crimes that start kids and young adults on a life of incarceration. It isn't just black kids. But an indefensible percentage of the kids who end up in that lifestyle are black. Are the crimes wrong? Yes. But let's remember that white people in responsible positions earning great incomes also commit crimes and are more likely to get away with their crimes than are the impoverished regardless of race.

It's pretty obvious when a mom goes into a store and tries to steal (shoplift) a pair of pants for her four-year-old. It is not so obvious when a banker steals money by granting loans to people for houses knowing that the buyer has no money to repay the loan. How does the banker profit? He/she gets commissions, fees of all kinds and maybe even a little interest. The banker is asked to repay some or all of the estimated illegal profit but serves no time in jail and goes on to devise yet another clever scheme to rob his depositors and investors. The mother who stole clothes she needed for her child has a conviction on her record and cleans the highways. She goes on to do menial labor because her conviction makes it hard for her to compete in the job market. Minority kids are like the mother who shoplifts.

I used to visit juvenile halls to make sure the incarcerated youths were getting the care and education they needed. This is what I learned from that experience.

[blackspade]

37. The breakdown caused by lopsided incarceration rates?

Or the lack of gainful employment, food, and shelter?

[JustAnotherGen]

54. Slavery by Any Other Name

White folks needed cheap labor and that's what started the rail roading of black men for cheap prison labor.


Are you for real with these comments you are making?

Do you know any black people? Like friendly enough where you socialize in each other's homes?

[DustyJoe]

56. And

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that no one can exist 24 hours as a citizen in this country without unknowingly breaking countless laws. Way too many laws, regulations for any human to not break countless laws every day without even being aware they broke one till the cuffs are locking on the wrist or the swat team is blowing your front door in.

[Scuba]

10. Yeah, but this is just a problem in the south, right?

Wrong.

RATES OF BLACK MALE INCARCERATION BY STATE, 2012

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/04/24/178817911/wisconsin-locks-up-more-of-its-black-men-than-any-other-state-study-finds



Shame on my State.

[ND-Dem]

27. wisconsin sure is an outlier. why, do you think?

[Scuba]

31. Grinding poverty, racist politicians with unrestrained police and criminal justice systems.

[ND-Dem]

33. but since you have the same factors in the south, why wisconsin v. e.g. mississippi, which doesn't

even make the list?

[Scuba]

44. Good question.

[appalachiablue]

59. There's also NYC Stop & Frisk under Guiliani & Bloomberg adding to profiling & high arrest rates.

[procon]

11. And after they've "paid their debt to society", they still can't vote.

It's a twofer!

[davidn3600]

19. ...and be lucky to get a job.

Once you are branded a "criminal." You stay that way for life.

[procon]

39. Right, and without a job they can't support their families.

That means they won't get married or live in the family home because it will mean deep cuts to their meager state benefits which are already pitiful in red states. This in turn feeds into the Republican's stock and trade complaints about "The Blacks", welfare, food stamps, etc... it a vicious cycle with no escape.

[appalachiablue]

57. They also can't rent property in many cases since management checks credit and other

histories. So they can't work, vote or obtain housing, in other words take a positive place in society. Unjust and intentional discrimination and evisceration policies that need dramatic progressive change. Legend and Common were 100% right to call out the staggering black US incarceration rate and current attack on black voting rights so valiantly fought for by brave Selma marchers and others 50 years ago.

[Fred Sanders]

13. Is this "Creative Speculation", since per capita imprisonment is not near the same today?

Incarceration rates are truly criminal, but this approach to it is kind of misleading.

Then again, isn't all good speculation creative?

[FLPanhandle]

15. Or...There are more WHITE men under correctional control today than Black men under slavery in 1850

Based on the stats, it would be equally accurate.

[ismnotwasm]

21. Your point?

[FLPanhandle]

22. The point is that it's a meaningless stat

Due to population growth, its not only meaningless but silly.

[ismnotwasm]

25. Ok. how about this analysis

So while there are fewer black men physically in prison today than there were in slavery in 1850, the addition of probation and parole brings it over the top.

Here are the numbers:

In 1850, there were 872,924 black men (16 or older) who were enslaved in the US, according to the Census.
As of December 31, 2013, there were about 526,000 black men in state and federal prisons in the US.
In 2013, there were about 877,000 black men on probation, and 280,000 black men on parole (according to a Bureau of Justice Statistics source cited by Politifact).
The Bureau of Justice Statistics doesn't break down jail populations by both race and gender, but 86 percent of all 730,000 jail residents in 2013 were male, and 36 percent were black. So it seems plausible that at least a couple hundred thousand black men are in jail.
The totals: 1.68 million black men are under correctional control in the US, not counting jails. That's over three times as many black men as were enslaved in 1850
http://www.vox.com/2015/2/23/8088989/john-legend-oscars-speech-quote

[FLPanhandle]

29. Any comparison of numbers to 1850 is silly

Because the population base is not the same.

[ismnotwasm]

32. Even as a rhetorical device it is not 'silly'

It was used to to emphasize institutional racism.

How would you do it?

[FLPanhandle]

34. That stat doesn't emphasize anything, it is meaningless

How would I do it. Look at post #28, that's an intelligent and statistically meaningful.

1 in 11 Black adults, 1 in 27 Hispanic adults, and 1 in 45 white adults are under correctional control.

In the last 25 years, the number of prisoners in the U.S. has risen 274%

1 in 31 Americans are currently under correctional control, either in prison or jail, or on probation or parole. Here are some statistics that the study has released: In the last 25 years, the number of prisoners in the U.S. has risen 274%, while the violent crime rate has only dropped 23%


Nothing about 1850 in that because, that would make it silly.

[ismnotwasm]

41. In a short speech

I think I works well, it doesn't as a statistic of course. What I find disturbing about so many people-- (not you) is the they don't understand how the past not only informs the present, but actively affects it.

[FLPanhandle]

50. As a device to get attention, it works.

The sad part is that many people not only understand how the past affects teh present, is that most people don't even understand history or the past to see it.

[ismnotwasm]

52. Yes that always bothers me

It's like people think they're walking away from the past toward the future rather than carrying it with them in every aspect of our lives.

[iscooterliberally]

17. It's long past time to end the drug war in its entirety.

Our nations drug laws were arbitrarily written to lock up a certain group of people. We really need to look at who's who in drug prohibition and start voting the prohibitionists out. Politicians always want to be 'tough on crime'. It's time they got smart on crime instead. As adults over the age of 21 we ought to be able to buy whatever drugs we want from a pharmacy. Making drugs illegal only makes them more dangerous and gives a huge profit to criminal enterprises. Prohibition is a failed experiment, and has resulted in other laws that have undermined our 4th amendment rights. I believe last year that Canada issued a travel advisory to its citizens going to the US that they should not carry large amounts of cash because it could be seized by US law enforcement. We need major reform in our country so we can go back to being the land of the free. It's kind of tough to do that when you have more people behind bars than any other nation.

[ismnotwasm]

20. K&R

[glasshouses]

24. no racism there

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/



1. While people of color make up about 30 percent of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent of those imprisoned. The prison population grew by 700 percent from 1970 to 2005, a rate that is outpacing crime and population rates. The incarceration rates disproportionately impact men of color: 1 in every 15 African American men and 1 in every 36 Hispanic men are incarcerated in comparison to 1 in every 106 white men.

2. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men can expect to go to prison in their lifetime. Individuals of color have a disproportionate number of encounters with law enforcement, indicating that racial profiling continues to be a problem. A report by the Department of Justice found that blacks and Hispanics were approximately three times more likely to be searched during a traffic stop than white motorists. African Americans were twice as likely to be arrested and almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with the police

[cyberswede]

38. Well, that's utterly simplistic.

Go do some reading.

[progressoid]

42. Goodbye.

[Iggo]

46. Aw.

[tclambert]

26. Waiting for a Republican to say, "See? Slavery wasn't so bad" in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

[Sunlei]

28. 1 in 11 Black adults, 1 in 27 Hispanic adults, and 1 in 45 white adults are under correctional contr

1 in 11 Black adults, 1 in 27 Hispanic adults, and 1 in 45 white adults are under correctional control.

In the last 25 years, the number of prisoners in the U.S. has risen 274%

1 in 31 Americans are currently under correctional control, either in prison or jail, or on probation or parole. Here are some statistics that the study has released: In the last 25 years, the number of prisoners in the U.S. has risen 274%, while the violent crime rate has only dropped 23%

http://thousandkites.org/

[Iggo]

47. "Injustice in the system" isn't one side of the coin. It's the fucking mint.

[ismnotwasm]

48. dude-- that's a messed up thing to say.

Really.

[guillaumeb]

30. does anyone think this is a coincidence?

After the Civil War, the southern prison system grew rapidly as southerners decided to re-enslave blacks. This had two objectives:
1) to prevent blacks from voting and
2) to substitute the prison for the plantation.

Slave labor in prisons was an important factor in the south because prison slave laborers could be given/loaned out to factory owners to use. This ready supply of free or minimal cost labor was a big factor in keeping wages for free workers lower in the south than in the north.

Amazing how racism is intertwined with every element of American society. Not to speak of race weighted sentencing disparities and policing tactics that disproportionately target blacks. Got to keep the inmate population growing.

[Sunlei]

49. USA history, facts never taught. Now it's mexicans added to the prison slave 'system'

Not wealthy persons in general added to the 'system of fines' for a constant local revenue stream.


Slavery by Another Name

"I want to compliment and thank WJCT for the recent airing of Slavery by Another Name. At 68 and white, it hurt to relive the injustices I saw in my youth. My heritage is Southern Confederate, and I am proud of the bravery displayed by my ancestors in the Civil War. Fortunately, my father became a Mason and taught me how wrong discrimination was, that blacks were just as smart as whites, and he reached out to them involving me.. I want to say to all older African-Americans who were discriminated against: I saw it, fought it, it was wrong and you are the real heroes in this saga. To the majority of young African-Americans who want what everyone else wants, a piece of the American dream, please know that the majority of people support and root for you. Unfortunately, you don’t get much media attention. It seems all we ever hear about are people who are full of hate."
- Letter to the editor, the Florida Times-Union (Arthur Padgett, Jacksonville)

[appalachiablue]

55. Thanks for posting this outstanding 2012 PBS documentary based on the Pulitzer prize winning

book by distinguished author and journalist Douglas A. Blackmon, "Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to WWII". Blackmon is based in Atlanta and Charlottesville, VA and has worked as ATL Bureau Chief for the Wall Street Journal and for the Washington Post and other leading news organizations.
The alarming increase in US incarceration rates in the last twenty years, especially of blacks and Hispanics, and now Americans in debt collection, has direct antecedents in slavery and the brutal, corrupt post Civil War prison system in the South which utilized blacks and some poor whites into the 1940s.

[F4lconF16]

35. Rec because we have a huge problem

But the statistics used here are essentially meaningless. There's better ways to make this point.

[ismnotwasm]

51. Yeah

But I thought it emphasizes the problem-- or at least will cause a lot of discussion, so I get why he did it.

[Liberal_in_LA]

61. kick

[Java]

62. A number of things

Well...the population has grown a great deal. On the other hand, there are too many laws.
Legalize all drugs and there would be less crime and fewer prisoners. It would also reduce
costs for the states which have to enforce the laws, put people on trial, and then house and feed them
for the duration of their sentences.

Legalizing drugs and eliminating the patriot act, making asset forfeiture laws illegal, protecting individual rights by reducing police powers would all be humane things to do.

And any free society would make such changes. But we don't live in a free society no matter what politicians and the pundits say.