The Democratic party *should* marginalize and ignore liberals

[Fumesucker]

Let's face it, liberals are going to vote Democratic because the Republicans are so horrible, liberals are a totally owned vote by the Democratic party.

To the Democratic party every conservative vote they can pull away from the Republicans is as good as two liberal votes, they would be fools not to pander to disaffected Republican voters and ignore liberals because paying attention to liberals means driving away those double plus valuable conservative votes. Nobody likes someone who is right about things and points out that they are right, it's a huge turnoff. The amiable fool is far easier to get along with than the prickly egghead who is always talking about how they got so many things right, look at how popular Ronald Reagan is and was.

So get with the program fellow liberals, if you want the Democrats to win big then shut the hell up about all this pinko lefty crud, all you are doing is helping the Republicans and hurting the Democrats.

[Art_from_Ark]

1. I hate that "Circle D" logo

It reminds me too much of the Chicago Cubs' "Circle C" logo.

[wyldwolf]

2. Some Ad/PR agency ripped the DNC off

This was better:

[Fumesucker]

25. Switzerland?

[Fumesucker]

18. I'm sure it was focused-grouped to death, they have glossy pictures

Glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one.

The best market research money can buy.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

21. And in walked the judge... n/t

[cyberswede]

62. ...with a seein'-eye dog.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

64. Obie came to the realization

that it was a typical case of American blind justice, and there wasn't nothin' he could do about it, and the judge
wasn't gonna look at the twenty-seven 8 by 10 colored glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph
on the back of each one explainin' what each one was, to be used as evidence against us.

[on point]

98. Say it ain't so Alice!

[LiberalElite]

51. It reminds me of a cattle brand - hmmm

[winter is coming]

75. I always think it's the "down" button on elevator.

Vote for us, we're going places!

[Art_from_Ark]

81. So the Circle D is a combination of the logo of a perennial losing team,

a ranch's brand, and the Down button of an elevator. Now it's all starting to make sense.

[backscatter712]

104. It looks like a target.

Every time that logo is displayed, it's putting a bullseye on the Democratic Party for Republicans to take potshots at.

[dissentient]

3. My eyes! That color! Whoever designed that logo should be fired.

They desperately need to change it, ASAP.

And yup, we liberals just need to sit our asses down and shut up, we are all loony moon-bat dreamers who don't understand politics.

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. No not Liberals....INDEPENDENTS.....we like Liberal Democrats!

[TheKentuckian]

73. No, you are a self proclaimed rubberstamp. Almost like being dead, there was volition but no longer.

Further, in many cases I believe this to be phony because some people that are pretty satisfied have not actually been tested, it is easy as can be to be Gung Ho when it is all going your way.

Seems to me the centrists and conservative Democrats actually go Republican in significant numbers when they get ready. Reagan is an orphan now but numerically speaking a bunch had to have voted for him and an equal number that have the same politics that weren't in position to sure as hell would have to but get to pretend otherwise.

[Katashi_itto]

105. Chauncey Gardner

[LuvNewcastle]

4. Why bother pandering to people when you can

ignore them and still get you want out of them? People don't usually have the incentive to fix their machine until it breaks down. We won't be able to fix our barely functioning political system until there is a breakdown, sadly, which means that we're going to see even worse times ahead.

[BrotherIvan]

5. Yup

Coz where else you gonna go hippies? Eat your peas!

[YOHABLO]

19. Would you get over the calling people ''hippies''. You don't even know what a hippy is or was.

Such a dumb ass thing to say.

[truebluegreen]

37. I think his point was that people who use the term hippies don't

in fact, know what that means. It's just a derogatory catch-all; you can almost hear the "dirty" prefix every time it is used.

[Fumesucker]

74. Do it...

[BrotherIvan]

99. Get off my lawn hippies!

[The Green Manalishi]

43. The Republican centrists know they can do the same thing to the far right.

Who is the Tea Party going to vote for if the nominee is a centrist Republican.
Same arguments and language on both sides. Principle has been in play for many many years.

The difference is that their "base" (actually whacko nutcase fanatics) seem more energized than the farthest left elements of the Democratic Party. I think that is often the case and more depends on the President than anyone else; it's easier to get the 'true believers' active when they hate the POTUS. Worked for us in 2006.

[JI7]

6. most liberals are supporting Hillary

[Katashi_itto]

7. Not this one.

I am now all for just crashing the system.

[Renew Deal]

9. What does that even mean?

Crashing what system?

[JI7]

12. internet tough talk

[Bobbie Jo]

60. 101st Chairborne

[JI7]

127. yup

many come on here thinking they are being rebelious or some shit by posting some of the crap they do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Keyboard activism/NT

[Katashi_itto]

135. .

[JI7]

10. But most are supporting her

[Half-Century Man]

17. So vested interests say.

I am not so sure.

[JI7]

20. no. She has all the ground support also

Last time around Obama had a lot also.

[Half-Century Man]

38. And when President Obama was first elected, she had lots of ground support.

All I am saying is that it is far too soon to know what will happen. All the presupposed inevitability of any candidate could vanish in an instant.
There are those of us who see the holdback by voters in the 2014 elections as something like the tide withdrawal before a tsunami. Rather than hold a victory parade on the beach right now, it would do us well to keep an eye out to sea. If the wave comes, it will come hard. It will be difficult to channel its energy in a direction we want, if we start to act too late.

[appalachiablue]

109. "

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. EXACTLY!!!!! ^^^THIS^^^

[L0oniX]

32. Smoke enough crack and anyone would.

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. So all the liberal Democrats that support Hillary are on drugs now.....Crack specifically

Is this really what you want to say about other Democrats on Democratic Underground?

By the way....that person that must be supported by people on Crack.....polls double digits ahead of EVERY Republican.....Who does your "drug free ass" have that can say that?

[lild]

108. Crack killed apple jack

[VanillaRhapsody]

139. but it didn't kill me!

[Katashi_itto]

136. Maybe meth?

[Phlem]

84. +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Fumesucker]

90. And that says exactly what?

Did you even read my OP?

Or did you hit a macro key by mistake?

[neverforget]

106. Macro key!

[JI7]

111. it says most liberals WANT Hillary , they aren't just going along, she is the one they want

or else she wouldn't have much support .

[Fumesucker]

112. Did you actually read the OP?

American politics is wired for conservatism, anyone to the left of Ann Coulter looks like a screaming liberal.

It's like Mach Bands, each of the bars is a uniform tone but they look shaded because of the contrast with the next band over.

[JI7]

113. so try to convince people to change their views

[Fumesucker]

114. Again, did you read the OP?

Because that was exactly what I was trying to do.

[JI7]

115. where did you try to do that ?

[Fumesucker]

117. In the OP you have not yet read

[JI7]

121. i did and id on't see it

[Fumesucker]

123. Reading glasses, you need them

From my OP.

So get with the program fellow liberals, if you want the Democrats to win big then shut the hell up about all this pinko lefty crud, all you are doing is helping the Republicans and hurting the Democrats.

[JI7]

126. not sure what that has to do with anything

it just seems like internet stuff to me. people in the real world who campaign don't really care about all of this.

the hillary people have been out campaigning for women's rights, gay rights , environment etc. this is the reality .

[Fumesucker]

131. What did the Iraq War do for women's rights in the Middle East?

What did it do for children and gays in the Middle East?

Or do those people not count?

[JI7]

132. i Don't know anyone who claims it did do anything

But what would you have done there for the women and children ?

[Fumesucker]

133. Not shocking and aweing them would be a good start..

Likewise not voting for doing that.

[JI7]

134. if you think Hillary supported that you shouldn't vote for her

I wouldn't if i thought that.

[Fumesucker]

137. How long did Hillary take to admit it was a mistake?

[JI7]

138. wouldnt matter to me. i would not support her if i thought she would have done

What Bush did

[Fumesucker]

142. What a change six years make

There were very few Iraq war apologists on DU back then.

[JI7]

143. ?

[Fumesucker]

144. I'm like Manny

I can't get past it and it's hard to understand how others do.

Evidently Obama was right about looking forward, I just wish that applied to when the little people screw up, then it's different. If the ones following orders were convicted of being bad why is it those who had a free choice are not held responsible for what they do?

An absolutely classic scapegoat.

[JI7]

146. you think Hillary ordered england to do what she did ?

Scapegoat ? There are pics with her in it

[Fumesucker]

147. I have a higher opinion of your intelligence than that

[JI7]

149. i Don't see england as a scapegoat at all

[Fumesucker]

150. I wrote about this on Discussonist..

http://www.discussionist.com/10162399

The inverse authority/responsibility curve in American culture

One of the thing that amuses me no end about American culture is that authority does not imply responsibility, just the opposite in fact, authority implies immunity. The closer you get to the top of our social pyramid the less responsibility you have to take for your bad decisions and the more reward you will get for any decision, good or bad.

If you are Joe Coprolite the rag man and step one nanometer over the line you are going to get nailed with the full force of the law, on the other hand the Thurston Howell III's of the world swan dive into the irresponsible idiot pool and get a promotion and a bonus for it.

[JI7]

151. And none of that makes england a scapegoat

[Fumesucker]

152. Show me where anyone actually responsible had negative consequences

I'm talking about order givers, not followers.

[JI7]

153. she was trying to make excuses. would you defend chris Kyle

[krawhitham]

101. Big difference between willing to vote for and supporting

If Warren runs she will get my time, money, and vote


If Hillary is on the general ballot she will get my vote and nothing else and I will still need a scolding hot shower after

[VanillaRhapsody]

140. 50 point lead...I'd say it surpasses that threshold!

[iandhr]

8. Liberals need to do a better jobs of arguing our positions.

[lovemydog]

14. Agree. 'OMFG I hate that!'

isn't persuasive.

I think the democratic party should first articulate its positions.

Locally, strongly support living wage ordinances that keep pace with inflation. To the tune of double the federal minimum wage.

Nationally, double the capital gains tax. It benefits the super rich at the expense of the poor. The billions and trillions of dollars do not trickle down.

[ND-Dem]

24. how about a better job *enacting* our positions. deeds, not more words.

[olddots]

11. I think people's agendas don't nessisaraly fit their politics

I have no clue what that meant but it sounded good for a second .

[lovemydog]

15. Haha!

I love your sense of humor.

I think there's a real element of truth in it somewhere as well.

Like, people want more homeless shelters. But too often, not in their neighborhood.

[ND-Dem]

31. i think people want fewer homeless.

[lovemydog]

40. Most like you and me do.

I'm not too sure about the right wing.

[ND-Dem]

83. i think the right wing in general would like fewer homeless too. one way or another, no

one's comfortable with mass homelessness.

[Fumesucker]

118. Indeed, Arbeit Macht Frei

[ND-Dem]

120. that wasn't what i meant, though. i was thinking more that a large homeless population

produced cognitive dissonance in people who think this is the best country in the world etc.

I don't think all right-wingers are fascists. I actually know many who are pretty nice.

[Vincardog]

16. Yes look how well the Faux GOP dems did in the last election. Quit this shit. It is time the

Democratic candidates returned to and supported LIBERAL values.

[Fumesucker]

22. Do the math..

For each conservative they get the Democrats gain a vote and the Republicans lose it, two votes differential.

For each liberal vote they can somehow entice to bother to come to the polls they get one vote. One vote.

Nope, cold hard calculation says liberals should shut up if they want Democrats to win.

The further to the right the Democrats go, the bigger //percentage// of the vote they get and that's all that really matters, absolute numbers are meaningless in a winner-take-all scenario.

I don't like it but that's the way it is.

[Joe Turner]

54. Lotsa liberals may just stay at home

if the Democratic party tries too hard to woo disenfranchised republicans. I have to ask though because labels can be confusing. Just what do you mean by liberal. Is it from a social perspective or economic because the latter is probably a lot more compelling than the hand-wringing on controversial wedge issues which does indeed turn a lot of people off...

[Fumesucker]

57. Seriously, it doesn't matter

Percentage rules and the two parties will never let a third party get to a serious challenge, if nothing else they just ease back to the left a bit as a pair and choke off the third party move.

Overton Window, it is to the electoral advantage of the Democrats to follow it to to the right as the Republicans charge over the cliff.

The Republicans basically have the media sown up, there isn't a serious leftist presence despite the Oscars last night, they keep moving to the right as the billionaires wish, the billionaires also keep funding the Democrats who follow the Republicans to the right and get enough percentage to stay viable and win some.

[Joe Turner]

69. Your thesis runs counter to just the last election

A lot of democrats stayed home (I didn't) because they were not motivated by what they heard from most Democratic candidates. The democratic party has to start embracing what really gets people to the polls and it isn't issues like gay marriage. It's meat and potato issues like jobs and keeping the jobs here. Public works projects on rebuilding our run down infrastructure. Reining in the excesses of Wall Street. None of these are Republican issues but they will sell readily to the flyover country and make the difference in elections.

[Fumesucker]

71. The Democrats just haven't moved far enough right fast enough to keep up

That's the professional politician perspective.. I was related by marriage to a local political family for a decade and some, it was interesting in the Chinese curse way.

[Joe Turner]

85. A lot of republicans said the said same thing

during Clinton's reign. That they had to move left to pick up democratic votes to counter Clinton's "left-wing agenda". Still, I just don't know what you are referring to by moving to the right. In this upside world right can be left and visa versa. I'm not a political operative yet I think I have a good understanding what moves people to the polls. The democratic party has to start listening to peoples' everyday concerns and translate that into winning positions on the issues. And so-far they have been tone-deaf on that. They are good at alienating a lot a folks though. Needlessly I might add.

[Fumesucker]

89. You are still thinking numbers when it's about percentages

Numbers are immaterial, what counts is which candidate gets 50% + 1.

Long term success in politics is about percentages..

[Joe Turner]

91. You got to out of the fixed pie mode

There are new votes out there for democrats to take if they have a winning message. Again, both parties are trying to do the same thing. Lately the republicans have been more successful.

[Fumesucker]

116. A shrinking pie isn't fixed

All those lovely billionaire bucks will go bye bye if the Democrats move significantly to the left on economic policy. All the board memberships, the think tank positions, the consulting gigs and so on..

[merrily]

129. IMO, staying home is the second most self-defeating thing a liberal can do, the

first being to vote Republican or "Libertarian," which liberals would never do.

At the very least, go and write in the most liberal public person you can think of. That way, no one can spin your statistic as apathy or as wanting a candidate even more right than any who ran.

[Vincardog]

92. You do the math if we put up candidates to compete for Conservative votes who the F will

Promote and advance LIBERAL policies?


Your math is backward as voodoo economics and I want no part of it.

You state " The further to the right the Democrats go, the bigger //percentage// of the vote they get and that's all that really matters"

This is absolutely categorically untrue. Look at the last election.

You get a big batch of the STFU you are trying to feed liberals.

[Scuba]

93. Do the math. Half the electorate doesn't bother to vote because with two Republican parties ...

... no one is offering them squat.

You want to win elections, go where the available votes are. Trying to peel off the mythical moderate Republican is a fool's errand.

[Fumesucker]

95. The Democratic party does what it needs to do to survive

Recall that Clausewitz said politics was just a continuation of war by other means or something like that.

I think you and I want probably nearly the same things, you know I'm an outspoken loudmouth in some ways and I know full well how I can piss off conservatives to the point they are speechless with rage and lack of talking points. I spent a while on Discussionist and proved to myself that I still have that ability I honed a decade or more ago.

That's counterproductive though if electoral success is your goal, you have to be nice and accommodating and non threatening to voters and particularly potential donors.

[appalachiablue]

110. +10

[Marr]

145. Except that isn't the way it is.

Obama's first election proved that. He may not be the liberal he portrayed himself as, but that image and hope for something better brought a lot of new people to the polls who would otherwise not have voted at all.

A positive, unapologetically pro-working class/poor agenda will earn the support of a hell of a lot more people than the tired, dwindling audiences our two corporate parties have made a science of fighting over. The US has incredibly low voter turnout, and it's not because the population doesn't want something better. It's because neither of our two main parties' establishments is willing to offer things that might piss off Wall Street and corporate America.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. Yes & progressives, stop "givin milk 4 free." Make whoever wants our vote EARN it or itll b alot harder 2 influence the candidate on issues.

[YOHABLO]

23. "..then shut the hell up about all this pinko lefty crud" Just what does that mean?

I want to hear what you define as 'pinko lefty'? That is jargon we'd here Archie Bunker use. I mean Really? Oh, that's right, you don't know who Archie Bunker was.

[Fumesucker]

26. Next to the latrine on MASH?

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. So are you saying that everyone that supports Hillary Rodham Clinton is not a Liberal?

is that your lousy point?

[Fumesucker]

35. I'm talking about the Democratic party and what will put it reliably in office

The closer the Democrats get to the Republicans the larger percentage of the vote they get, it's that simple and in this system as it exists that's what gets them in office, percentage, not absolute numbers.

You really think the politicians don't know this, no one has done the calculation?

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. WE... those of us here.... ARE the Democratic Party....WE ARE the Democratic Party...

who do you think you are? You think insulting just who YOU think is a Democratic Politician doesn't insult actual Democrats on this forum....because YOU say so?

Seems to me....we have been voting majorities....not fewer....but more ....but the redistricting works against us....

Let us know when you find that candidate who polls double digit leads ahead of all Republicans mkay!

[Fumesucker]

39. I'm not a politician, far too plainspoken and blunt

My ability to gladly tolerate fools is fairly limited and my milk of human kindness is a bit rancid.

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. Yeah we can tell......

its called being curmudgeon....

[Fumesucker]

42. Believe it or not I've come to appreciate your passon and single mindedness

Even though we disagree I see your point, you could make it better but you are enthusiastic.

[VanillaRhapsody]

45. I am not here to be verbose....I am intense, acerbic and to the point!

ain't nobody got time for all that jibber jabber....we got shit to do! Its not single mindedness...its called FOCUS!

[Fumesucker]

52. Not everyone works the same way mentally, emotionally, spiritually

What will persuade one person will make another even more opposed, people are individuals although there are broad personality types.

The best politicians don't berate people, they exalt them.

Ich bin ein Berliner.

We are what we have been waiting for.

[lovemydog]

46. There's plenty of differing views in the democratic party.

I think useful criticism can help make you think and perhaps even adjust strategies, if you (I mean anyone) looks at some criticism and tightens their game.

Personally when I think of the mainstream democratic party I think of bland candidates running on some heavily corporate financed agenda, saying 'I'm Coke. Vote for me because I'm not Pepsi.'

Me & my friends are pretty tired of soft drinks pedaling as candidates.

We want to vote for someone who is vocally fighting to increase taxes on the top 2%, support unions, fight for raising the minimum wage, vocally and with votes oppose the wasteful bullshit of endless war.

That's just my opinion and I vote in every election for the most progressive candidate. If they have a D on their name I vote for them. If they have Green Party or Socialist Party, I vote for them.

I think the D party needs far more youth candidates, people of color candidates, truly liberal candidates. Candidates who say 'I'm not listening to big corporate lobbyists who outsource our jobs.' And 'I'm for strengthening regulations against Wall Street.' 'Breaking up the big banks.' Regardless of who most financed their campaigns.

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. Not to THAT guy apparently....

He came right here to Democratic Underground to insult the vast majority of the Democratic Party....because MOST of them support the candidate that he doesn't. I am willing to bet.... that he is another one that says he cannot vote for Hillary Clinton if she wins the Primary!

[lovemydog]

53. I didn't read that in the original post

because that's not what it said.

I think local and state and congressional elections are very important.

Obviously the presidential one is as well, but that's a long way away.

[Fumesucker]

63. What is the cost going to be of the 2016 election?

2012 was over $2 billion, I suspect 2016 is closer to $4 billion with a B.

Good luck raising that kind of cash.

I don't like what I'm saying but it is, the more liberals shut up the more Democrats will win.

[lovemydog]

65. A lot.

I don't think liberals should shut up.

Tighten their game, yes.

Shut up, no.

Understand that I'm to the left of most liberals.

The only cure for democracy is more democracy.

The only cure for problems of free speech is more free speech.

If you could perhaps be a little more specific though, about what you want anyone to shut up about, that would be helpful.

I just consider posting here as talking. I'm all for conversation.

[Fumesucker]

67. Pretty much anything that a disaffected Republican might not like

It's going to have to be pretty bland to appeal to the widest possible voting demographic, platitudes are good and word salad is not usually too hurtful, beyond a couple of sentences most people can't follow much anyway.

[L0oniX]

28. You've been reading too much Manny.

[Fumesucker]

44. I think I was eight or nine when I read Jonathan Swift

One of the snarkier humans ever to live in my opinion.

[DonCoquixote]

30. pardon me, but

Are you following the Third-Way Manny school of satire?, because if you are, this gets an A+

[1StrongBlackMan]

72. That's what I'm thinking ...

But wouldn't give it the same grade.

[Fumesucker]

76. Dead serious

Percentage of the vote is what counts as far as getting in office, 50% + 1 and you are golden..

It sucks but that's the calculation a professional politician has to make.

[DonCoquixote]

103. ok, back when this was a manny knock off

this was funny, but if you are serious, and please, I hope you are not, this data would work if anybody besides Debbie Wasserman Schultz does not recognize we had an ass whopping the last two mid terms because of going right.

[Fumesucker]

107. What I would like is for someone to show me I'm wrong..

I'm not very good at losing arguments but this is one I wouldn't mind losing.

[DonCoquixote]

128. best argument

the last mid term where the Democrats tried their hardest to slam Obama and run to the right, ad were MOWED DOWN. Alison grimes ring a bell? She would not even admit she voted for the person most people voted for, and she STILL goy beat, Horribly!

[Fumesucker]

130. I just don't see liberals having a good enough ground game for it to happen long term

Herding cats unfortunately, conservatives tend to be much more organized because despite their rugged individualism rhetoric they are more herd creatures than liberals are on the average.

Politics is a long term game for the professional politician, they have to go with the numbers.

[MannyGoldstein]

47. Not bad, not bad.

I'll kick this upstairs, some "people" will be "interested".

Regards,

TWM

[Curmudgeoness]

48. Fumesucker, Fumesucker.

You certainly know how to piss off the masses.

[Fumesucker]

78. It's a gift, what can I say..

We all have a purpose in life, mine is being a bad example.

[Fumesucker]

66. Venimus vidimus et mortuus est

[Octafish]

80. The Tailor of Benghazi

[Fumesucker]

82. Faking sincerity is the key

Once you have that the world is your Öyster.

[Octafish]

102. When in doubt, umlaut.

Still, I never could figure out the umlaut in the Brown Cult of Long Island pronounciation. Urrayster. Oorstayer. Urlyaster...

Young Guy Motor Detective was the Yojimbo for the atomic age of radio.

[malokvale77]

55. Yah, I've been told, in so many words, to shut up

You would have thought the "shellacking" Dems suffered in the midterms would have given the Party a clue about how unimpressed so many of us are.

But nooo, they are going to double down on lame.

With respect to Lesley Gore (may she rest in pesce): It's My Party And I'll Cry If I Want To.

[Martin Eden]

56. Too close to the truth to be funny ...

... which is a bit of a paradox, since the ingredient that often makes humor funny is a kernel of truth.
Oh wait, I think I figured it out. You offered up the whole cob.

[hootinholler]

59. Shouldn't we call them retarded before we tell them to STFU?

Seems to have worked for a certain Mayor.

[Fumesucker]

61. It was only their ideas that were retarded

Although where there's smoke there is often fire.

[Octafish]

68. Whew! I was getting ready to say, ''Let's all become Repuglians.''

That's where the real money's at. So, for the future of the Party: Je suis Wall Street.

[Fumesucker]

70. Well you could try not to be actively offensive to conservatives by disagreeing with them

We all know how much they hate that.

[Octafish]

77. I noticed they also don't like eye contact, especially not when to be stared at.

[Fumesucker]

88. Ah, the one finger salute

A sign of respect in France where we come from.

[Phlem]

94. Damsnit!

[peacebird]

86. [phone]

[Phlem]

87. I can tell if this is sincere or not.

You got Fumesucker and you got Manny. Both completely talented and unique.

[Fumesucker]

96. I'm probably better than 90+% of this board at pissing off conservatives on their own turf

http://www.discussionist.com/10165053

http://www.discussionist.com/?com=journals&uid=101107

[AtomicKitten]

97. amen

[rainbobryte]

100. "double plus".....?

....shades of George Orwell!

[TheKentuckian]

119. I find inmoral more trustworthy than the amoral. At least you know what the sinner is up to and

often even why.

[Fumesucker]

124. Excellent point, I agree...

[mikehiggins]

122. Only a Sith

would believe a real right winger would EVER vote Democratic, even if the Democratic candidate was Adolf Hitler.

[Fumesucker]

125. So you're going with the "no true wingnut" argument?

[icymist]

141. L L Liberal

I love this country 'cause I can say it sucks
I wouldn't burn the flag 'cause it cost me forty bucks
I vote from my pocket but I dress on the right
I quit hard drugs 'cause they keep me up at night
I'm a L L L L L LA LA LA LA LA LA Liberal

https://myspace.com/theoriginalpheromones/music/song/l-l-liberal-21936734-21737919?play=1

[Fumesucker]

148. Totebaggers..