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Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
Fri Feb 27, 2015, 08:11 PM Feb 2015

Greenwald: Clapper Calls for Arming Ukrainian Forces: Who Would That Actually Empower?

Excellent article worth reading in full.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/27/clapper-calls-arming-ukrainian-forces-actually-empower/

It’s easy to forget that just two years ago, President Obama was determined to bomb Syria and remove the Assad regime, and U.S. establishment institutions were working to lay the groundwork for that campaign. NPR began dutifully publishing reports from anonymous U.S. officials that Syria had stockpiled large amounts of chemical weapons; the NYT was reporting that Obama was “increasing aid to the rebels and redoubling efforts to rally a coalition of like-minded countries to forcibly bring down” Assad; Secretary of State John Kerry pronounced that forced removal of Assad was “a matter of national security” and “a matter of the credibility of the United States of America.”

Those opposed to the anti-Assad “regime change” bombing campaign argued that while some of the rebellion was composed of ordinary Syrians, the “rebels” the U.S. would arm and empower (i.e., the only effective anti-Assad fighters) were actually violent extremists and even terrorists aligned with Al Qaeda and worse. The people arguing that were invariably smeared as Assad apologists because this happened to be the same argument Assad was making: that the most effective fighters against him were jihadis and terrorists.

But that argument in D.C. was quickly converted from taboo into conventional wisdom the moment it was needed to justify U.S. involvement in Syria. The U.S. is now bombing Syria, of course, but rather than fighting against Assad, the Syrian dictator is (once again) America’s ally and partner. The rationale for the U.S. bombing campaign is the same one Assad long invoked: that those fighting against him are worse than he is because they are aligned with Al Qeada and ISIS (even though the U.S. funded and armed those factions for years and their closest allies in the region continue to do so).

A similar dynamic is at play in Russia and Ukraine. Yesterday, Obama’s top national security official, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, told a Senate Committee “that he supports arming Ukrainian forces against Russian-backed separatists,” as the Washington Post put it. The U.S. has already provided “non-lethal” aid to Ukrainian forces, and Obama has said he is now considering arming them. Who, exactly, would that empower?

Russian President Vladimir Putin has long said that the Ukrainian coup of last year, and the subsequent regime in Kiev, is driven by ultra-nationalists, fascists, and even neo-Nazi factions. The Russian TV outlet RT also frequently refers to “the active role far-right groups have played on the pro-government side in Ukraine since the violent coup of the last year.”

For that reason, anyone pointing out that arming the regime in Kiev would strengthen fascists and neo-Nazis is instantly accused of being a Putin propagandist: exactly like those arguing that the best anti-Assad fighters were al-Qaeda-affiliated were accused of being Assad propagandists (until that became the official position of the US Government). U.S. media accounts invariably depict the conflict in Ukraine as a noble struggle waged by the freedom-loving, pro-west democrats in Kiev against the oppressive, aggressive “Russian-backed” separatists in the east.

more...

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Greenwald: Clapper Calls for Arming Ukrainian Forces: Who Would That Actually Empower? (Original Post) Karmadillo Feb 2015 OP
typical Greenwald BS. Of course Russia's invasion of Ukraine is the fault of the US uhnope Feb 2015 #1
Greenwald. LOL...nt SidDithers Feb 2015 #2
LOL! Clapper has exactly one sentence in the article and Greenwald headlines it this way. randome Feb 2015 #3
Nuland Clapper 2016 Cali_Democrat Feb 2015 #5
Yeah, why can't Ukraine just lay back and let Russia carve it up? NuclearDem Feb 2015 #4
Another excellent article by Greenwald DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #6
"None of them wants to know anything more about the liar James Clapper wanting to arm these people." NuclearDem Feb 2015 #12
Are you able to respond with any substance to the matter discussed in the article? DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #13
Of course. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #14
You're either unwilling or unable to discuss the subject of the article. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #16
What is there to discuss? NuclearDem Feb 2015 #18
And once again GG demonstrates why he can't be taken seriously. Egnever Feb 2015 #7
Are you able to elaborate? DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #9
Another brilliant idea from the guy who lied to congress. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #8
Thanks for this. elias49 Feb 2015 #10
Clapper the Connected Warmonger Dude? Octafish Feb 2015 #11
What is most important...the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the libera... jakeXT Feb 2015 #15
Who wouldn't believe James R. Clapper? nationalize the fed Feb 2015 #17
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
3. LOL! Clapper has exactly one sentence in the article and Greenwald headlines it this way.
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 07:18 PM
Feb 2015

I truly doubt Clapper has any sway over anything these days. He needs to fade away and stay out of the limelight.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
6. Another excellent article by Greenwald
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 08:16 PM
Feb 2015

As of right now, there are four, maybe five responses above mine. None of them wants to know anything more about the liar James Clapper wanting to arm these people. None of the respondents above wants to talk about supporting neo-Nazis. They only want to talk about Glenn Greenwald. Why is that?

Vladimir Putin is not a good guy. He very likely had someone killed yesterday, and he's done lots worse besides. But it would be the height of stupidity to therefore assume that anyone against Putin is one of the "good guys". Nazis aren't good guys. I would hope that we could have a more nuanced and less idiotic discussion about this than the one that has gotten started above.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
12. "None of them wants to know anything more about the liar James Clapper wanting to arm these people."
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 09:04 PM
Feb 2015

Yeah, that's it. You got us.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
14. Of course.
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:17 PM
Feb 2015

I think it's hilarious that Greenwald rambles on at the beginning about NPR and the NYT as government mouthpieces then cites RT.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
16. You're either unwilling or unable to discuss the subject of the article.
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:42 PM
Feb 2015

This limits you to the point that I'm going to bid you a good evening. Life is short and all that. Let me know if your muse renders you capable of discussion.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
18. What is there to discuss?
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:57 PM
Feb 2015

"Boo, Nazis under your bed, pay no attention to Russia carving up yet another former Soviet republic"?

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
8. Another brilliant idea from the guy who lied to congress.
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 08:23 PM
Feb 2015

Arming the Taliban and Al Queda worked so well let's start arming the Nazis and Nationalists.

 

elias49

(4,259 posts)
10. Thanks for this.
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 08:38 PM
Feb 2015

Good article. Excellent points.
Some folks hate Greenwald so much that they can't acknowledge the truth of what was written.
They're lost in their own misunderstanding.
Greenwald should adopt an alias. I think we'd hear those same grumpy people applauding the truth of what was written.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
11. Clapper the Connected Warmonger Dude?
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 08:55 PM
Feb 2015

Then, there's the Booz Allen Hamilton/Carlyle Group crony of the BFEE.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/James_R._Clapper,_Jr.



Behind the Curtain: Booz Allen Hamilton and its Owner, The Carlyle Group

Written by Bob Adelmann
The New American; June 13, 2013

According to writers Thomas Heath and Marjorie Censer at the Washington Post, The Carlyle Group and its errant child, Booz Allen Hamilton (BAH), have a public relations problem, thanks to NSA leaker and former BAH employee Edward Snowden. By the time top management at BAH learned that one of their top level agents had gone rogue, and terminated his employment, it was too late.

For years Carlyle had, according to the Post, “nurtured a reputation as a financially sophisticated asset manager that buys and sells everything from railroads to oil refineries”; but now the light from the Snowden revelations has revealed nothing more than two companies, parent and child, “bound by the thread of turning government secrets into profits.”

And have they ever. When The Carlyle Group bought BAH back in 2008, it was totally dependent upon government contracts in the fields of information technology (IT) and systems engineering for its bread and butter. But there wasn't much butter: After two years the company’s gross revenues were $5.1 billion but net profits were a minuscule $25 million, close to a rounding error on the company’s financial statement. In 2012, however, BAH grossed $5.8 billion and showed earnings of $219 million, nearly a nine-fold increase in net revenues and a nice gain in value for Carlyle.

Unwittingly, the Post authors exposed the real reason for the jump in profitability: close ties and interconnected relationships between top people at Carlyle and BAH, and the agencies with which they are working. The authors quoted George Price, an equity analyst at BB&T Capital: "[Booz Allen has] got a great brand, they've focused over time on hiring top people, including bringing on people who have a lot of senior government experience." (Emphasis added.)

For instance, James Clapper had a stint at BAH before becoming the current Director of National Intelligence; George Little consulted with BAH before taking a position at the Central Intelligence Agency; John McConnell, now vice chairman at BAH, was director of the National Security Agency (NSA) in the ‘90s before moving up to director of national intelligence in 2007; Todd Park began his career with BAH and now serves as the country's chief technology officer; James Woolsey, currently a senior vice president at BAH, served in the past as director of the Central Intelligence Agency; and so on.

BAH has had more than a little problem with self-dealing and conflicts of interest over the years. For instance in 2006 the European Commission asked the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and Privacy International (PI) to investigate BAH’s involvement with President George Bush’s SWIFT surveillance program, which was viewed by that administration as “just another tool” in its so-called “War on Terror.” The only problem is that it was illegal, as it violated U.S., Belgian, and European privacy laws. BAH was right in the middle of it. According to the ACLU/PI report,

Though Booz Allen’s role is to verify that the access to the SWIFT data is not abused, its relationship with the U.S. Government calls its objectivity significantly into question. (Emphasis added.)

Among Booz Allen’s senior consulting staff are several former members of the intelligence community, including a former Director of the CIA and a former director of the NSA.


As noted by Barry Steinhardt, an ACLU director, “It’s bad enough that the [Bush] administration is trying to hold out a private company as a substitute for genuine checks and balances on its surveillance activities. But of all companies to perform audits on a secret surveillance program, it would be difficult to find one less objective and more intertwined with the U.S. government security establishment.” (Emphasis added.)

CONTINUED w Links n Privatized INTEL...

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15696-behind-the-curtain-booz-allen-hamilton-and-its-owner-the-carlyle-group



Personally, I like him. Politically, he's too right for me. Why so many on this thread give him a pass is telling.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
15. What is most important...the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the libera...
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:32 PM
Feb 2015

Brzezinski:What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
17. Who wouldn't believe James R. Clapper?
Sat Feb 28, 2015, 10:48 PM
Feb 2015

"Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" He responded "No, sir." Wyden asked "It does not?" and Clapper said "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly."



What happens to a member of the 99% when they lie under oath, obstruct justice, and give false testimony?

When Edward Snowden was asked during his January 26, 2014 TV interview in Moscow what the decisive moment was or why he blew the whistle, he replied: "Sort of the breaking point was seeing the Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, directly lie under oath to Congress. … Seeing that really meant for me there was no going back."


A Nation of Laws not men, or not. It's America's choice.
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