8 Fake Medical Products People Pay Real Money For ...

[HuckleB]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-8-worst-wastes-money-in-medicine/

"#8. Homeopathic Child Sedatives

The homeopathic "fears and nightmares" remedy No More Monsters turns childhood terror into future profits with imaginary medicine. That's the same plan as evil cartoon corporations, but with less connection to the laws of physics.

...

#2. POTENTIZING ORGONE CHI ENERGY GENERATOR

Behold, the RADIONICS MACHINE HOMEOPATHY HEALING REMEDY VIBRATIONS ORGONE CHI ENERGY GENERATOR. Those capitals are their doing, not mine. I don't think I could add anything, real or imaginary, to the abilities this machine already claims.

..."

---------------------------------------

Oh, goodness. This one is funny. Nice work Cracked.

[Wella]

1. I take issue with the criticism of Hyland's "Calms" products

These actually do work. The author of the piece seems to be going by the packaging alone and has not tried the product. He is working from a prejudgment of homeopathy alone.

The Calms products, especially Calms Forte, are very nice sleep aids without the side effects of the PM products (Tylenol PM, Excedrin PM). I have used them myself, had had friends use them, and have given them to my pets for plane rides as an alternative to the heavy handed sedation, which often leaves them awake, immobile and miserable. The Calms Forte puts them gently to sleep and they remain asleep for most of the plane ride.

[HuckleB]

3. There is nothing in them that works, period.

They are placebos. Don't waste your money. Hyland's is a very unethical company. Please don't fall for its scam.

http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2011/02/un-homeopathic-sleeping-tablets.html

More on homeopathy, in general:

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/an_intro_to_homeopathy

[Wella]

4. Well, then my pets must have a very human concept of "placebo" since the products work for them.

And I don't know you from Adam. I am much more inclined to trust my own experience than a guy on an internet message board. Show me you have some credentials and maybe we can talk.

[HuckleB]

6. Pets and the placebo effect.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/is-there-a-placebo-effect-for-animals/

Our own experience is a bad judge, in general. There are too many confounding factors, and the N is far too small.

[Wella]

9. The fact that you can Google does not make you an authority on anything

ROFL!

[HuckleB]

10. So you are not open to the science of the matter.

Thanks for clarifying your position. That's really too bad, for many reasons, including your poor wallet, which will continue to be thinner for no good reason.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/homeopathy-as-nanoparticles/

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

[rjsquirrel]

29. Well ok, I'm a scientist

Albeit a field biology guy, but it's roughly the same biochemical skill set (since I work with large mammals) as human immunolgical science requires...

OP is right and you are wrong, and reasoning incorrectly about placebo effects.

Homeopathic remedies are pure imaginary nonsense. Pets are certainly subject to placebo effects. You're feeding your kids and your pets what is at best an inert substance from a biochemical perspective.

[HuckleB]

7. "In My Experience" is not a good way to make judgments.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-role-of-experience-in-science-based-medicine/

[Wella]

8. So it's better to believe a stranger on the internet than go by your own experience?

What were your qualifications again?

[HuckleB]

11. So learning is not something you are open to doing.

You know what confirmation bias is? You should. Your closed mind is a bit much. Utilizing science based evidence will help everyone make better decisions. Ignoring such evidence will lead to worse outcomes much of the time.

In case you do open your mind, here is another good piece on the topic of placebo effects in regard to pets.
http://web.randi.org/swift/alternative-medicine-and-placebo-effects-for-pets

[Wella]

12. Once again: what are your credentials?

Since you're unwilling to answer this question and can only reply with ad hominem attacks I will take it that you have NO credentials of any kind, outside of your own prejudices.

[HuckleB]

13. My credentials are not something that should convince you of anything.

How do you fail to understand that evidence is what matters? My credentials are quite good when it comes to science, but I don't use them on the Internet, because they are meaningless. I could use them as a way to con people, much like homeopathic companies do. I'm not unethical, so I don't do that. Have you bothered to read the links? If so, and you find them lacking, what are they lacking?

[Wella]

14. So, no credentials.

That's what I thought.

[HuckleB]

15. So, you have no idea how science works at all.

That's what I thought.

What are your credentials, then? Let's see you put up, and offer proof of them, to boot. This should be good!

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Apparently you think ignorning evidence in favor of stuff you hear on the internet from random

posters is 'how science works'. I don't agree.

[HuckleB]

32. Apparently, you haven't bothered to read my posts.

Nor do you understand how science works.

[HuckleB]

16. So, again.

What are your credentials, and why do you not understand how science works?

[ND-Dem]

17. If the products work for her with both children and pets, why would you think telling her

they don't work would change her mind?

[HuckleB]

18. Why do you think she felt the need to respond to the OP?

And since she did, why do you think it's ok for her to deny the science shown to her? And, on top of that, play more ugly logical fallacy BS?

Hmm.

[ND-Dem]

19. The product worked for her. For whatever reason. You tell her it didn't work. But it worked

for her, so why would she pay attention to you?

[Orrex]

26. Why do you believe her and not him?

Why do you imagine falsehood from HuckleB but not from Wella?


At best, her claims are anecdote not backed by science, evidence, nor precdent.

[ND-Dem]

47. I believe she thinks it worked for her. I believe her child and pet stayed quiet, for whatever

reason. Because the alternative is to imagine she 1) imagined it (hard to imagine quiet in a loud reality) or 2) she's lying (I see no reason for her to lie in this case.)

I don't imagine falsehood from huckleb; I just don't understand why s/he wants to beat this particular dead horse. The lady says it worked for her. Her claim is that the product worked for her. Backed by her personal experience. And for the claim that it worked for her, that's all that's needed.

[Orrex]

48. Her testimony is frankly insufficient.

Last edited Tue Mar 3, 2015, 07:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Because the alternative is to imagine she 1) imagined it (hard to imagine quiet in a loud reality) or 2) she's lying (I see no reason for her to lie in this case.)

1) Imagined it? Maybe not, but it's entirely possible that she interpreted events to support her preconceptions, all while forgetting, overlooking, ignoring, or rationalizing those times when the placebo didn't work as expected.

2) Lying? Possibly. I have no reason to suspect willful deception from her, but proponents of homeopathy and other "alternative" "medicines" have a very long history (like, several millennia) of lying outright in order to give themselves or their snake oil credibility. Therefore, if she were lying, then she would be following a well-established tradition.

3) She could also simply be incorrect in her interpretation, and honestly I believe this the most likely. This is why we don't market actual medicines or medical procedures based on one person's interpretation of events.

I just don't understand why s/he wants to beat this particular dead horse.

Because it's hardly a dead horse. We're talking about a huge "supplement" and "alternative" "medicine" industry that's stealing billions of dollars annually from people who are desperate or ill-informed or deceived. It doesn't matter that a particular "treatment" might be cheap or free; it feeds into the false perception that other, similarly worthless "treatments" can offer actual health benefits.

Some people object to statements that contradict material fact as it pertains to self-medication, especially when others might read those false statements and be unduly influenced in their choice of medical options.

The lady says it worked for her. Her claim is that the product worked for her. Backed by her personal experience. And for the claim that it worked for her, that's all that's needed.

That's all that's needed for her. But as soon as she openly sings the praises of this or other snake oil, then she's responsible for endorsing a worthless product, and she bears a measure of responsibility for people who make medical decisions based on her endorsement.

[HuckleB]

33. Well, there's this thing called science.

It helps us to understand things we perceive wrongly. It saves lives even!

[Orrex]

25. You yourself are a stranger on the internet. Why should anyone believe you?

The most you can say is that you are selectively reporting anecdotes that support your preconception. In this thread you have demonstrated a hostility to the scientific method and to the basics of empirical evidence. In short, you are not a credible witness on behalf of these products.

You demand HuckleB's credentials but have failed to produce your own. Your anecdotal experience, even when consistent with those of your friends and your perceptions of your pets' behavior, does not trump scientific fact.


You are free to waste your money however you see fit, and you are free to insist that you aren't wasting your money. That doesn't mean that your interpretation is correct or that your experience is compelling, however.

[JonLP24]

20. Are your pets dogs?

Dogs generally sleep a lot when there isn't much going on & generally do a lot of "mirroring" of their human owners so they tend to sleep or rest when the humans are sleeping & resting.

I don't know whether or not it works but a "sleep aid" on a dog could be a correlation does not imply causation issue.

[JonLP24]

21. If they went wild with the chamomile than I could see how they might work

That stuff really does help put you too sleep but helps you to definitely relax. My mom, diagnosed with high blood pressure was recommended chamomile tea by the doctor at a visit..

[HuckleB]

36. Even with chamomile, it's more likely a benefit of a warm drink.

The evidence just isn't there for it as a substance.

[JonLP24]

39. It likely needs more studies regarding the insomnia

Evidence is strong or stronger regarding its anti-inflammation or treating kidney ailments but there is evidence.

5.13 Sleep aid/sedation

Traditionally, chamomile preparations such as tea and essential oil aromatherapy have been used to treat insomnia and to induce sedation (calming effects). Chamomile is widely regarded as a mild tranquillizer and sleep-inducer. Sedative effects may be due to the flavonoid, apigenin that binds to benzodiazepine receptors in the brain (68). Studies in preclinical models have shown anticonvulsant and CNS depressant effects respectively. Clinical trials are notable for their absence, although ten cardiac patients are reported to have immediately fallen into a deep sleep lasting for 90 minutes after drinking chamomile tea (47). Chamomile extracts exhibit benzodiazepine-like hypnotic activity (69). In another study, inhalation of the vapor of chamomile oil reduced a stress-induced increase in plasma adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) levels. Diazepam, co-administered with the chamomile oil vapor, further reduced ACTH levels, while flumazenile, a BDZ antagonist blocked the effect of chamomile oil vapor on ACTH. According to Paladini et al. (70), the separation index (ratio between the maximal anxiolytic dose and the minimal sedative dose) for diazepam is 3 while for apigenin it is 10. Compounds, other than apigenin, present in extracts of chamomile can also bind BDZ and GABA receptors in the brain and might be responsible for some sedative effect; however, many of these compounds are as yet unidentified.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2995283/

With the poster, my mom, and myself -- though I generally stay awake even when tired I can attest to the relaxation, the only thing that ever knocks me out was Seroquel. Xanax did too though it wasn't prescribed when I took it which was the only time I ever took it. I used to take sleeping pills every night until I gave up on them. I still stayed up all night after taking a couple of those & even more still frustrated that I was still awake. I was also prescribed Hydroxyzine for anxiey/sleep that shit doesn't work. I can tell you the Chamomile is more effective than sleeping pills or the Hydroxyzine but maybe some more studies or an accurate idea of the dose & its effects but we don't appear to be alone in its claims & also a doctor recommended this to my mom diagnosed with "high blood pressure". Perhaps he should lose his job over quack advice? Though my mom doesn't have health insurance or has AHCCS but never uses it.

I'm just not sure drinking hot cocoa has the same effect given its "widely regarded" history but if I'm wrong, oh well. I don't believe it would have an placebo effect since I already lost faith in anything marketing as a "sleep aid" a long time ago. I realized my hypoglycemia diagnoses made sense of a lot things.

[HuckleB]

44. Hot cocoa would have caffeine, so not a likely beneficial sleep aid, I suspect.

As for the review presented, it doesn't appear to have very profound research to support. It links to very small, preliminary studies addressing subjective symptoms only. That's one of the hallmarks of the supplement industry. It's not impossible, but no one has put it to the test against placebo with a big N for specific symptoms. That in itself makes me wonder about its actual efficacy outside of the placebo effect.

[Binkie The Clown]

2. I use crystal therapy when I'm down in the dumps.

Sugar is a crystal, right?
Doughnuts contain sugar, right?
So there you go. Coffee and doughnuts and the blahs go away.

[Wella]

5. Sugar plus caffeine only works temporarily--in the end you get more depressed

Hence the endless cycle.

[jmowreader]

22. Homeopathy would be hilarious if they weren't so fucking serious about it

Check out http://www.hahnemannlabs.com/preparation.html.

These maniacs built a machine that will beat a vial against a rubber pad with exactly the same stroke length and intensity the arm of the company's founder would have.

[eridani]

23. Homeopathic remedies were actually very helpful in the 19th century

Medicine had no scientific basis at all, and harmful cures like bloodletting and being dosed with mercury were common. Homeopathic remedies that did nothing whatsoever were good alternatives, given that they at least wouldn't hurt you.

There is no conceivable excuse for them now, however.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

31. That's not homeopathy

It's a plant extract. Completely different. Homeopathy =/= alternative medicine. Which reminds me, you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

Also, the FDA will not allow ANY claims of a cure unless there is SOLID peer-reviewed research proving such. If the company supplying said supplement doesn't want to pony up the cash to actual pay for research, then most likely their product is bullshit.

[eridani]

41. If it's from Germany, there's a good chance it's legit

Herbal medicines there are held to the same strict regulatory regimen as regular pharmaceuticals.

http://www.motherearthliving.com/mother-earth-living/germanys-rich-herbal-traditions.aspx?PageId=2

The German government’s counterpart to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is the German Federal Institute for Drugs and Medical Devices. In 1976, Germany passed a law that required all medicines then on the market (including conventional drugs) to be reviewed by scientific committees. In 1978, they established a special committee on herbal remedies called the Commission E.

The Commission E is a federally appointed panel of leading experts on herbs and plant-based medicines. Members of the commission, who serve three-year terms, were proposed by various health professional associations and appointed by the Minister of Health. The initial task of the Commission E was to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of herbal remedies.

Today, the 24 members of the commission include physicians, pharmacists, pharmacologists, toxicologists, representatives of the pharmaceutical industry and lay persons, among others. About half of the members are university researchers who study the theoretical scientific basis of herbal medicines. The other half is composed mainly of health-care professionals with experience in prescribing and dispensing plant medicines. One of the perceived strengths of the commission is its ability to utilize a broad range of experience and expertise from numerous academic disciplines. According to longtime commission member Schilcher, the interdisciplinary nature of the Commission E is unique in the world.

[JonLP24]

43. I wonder why it was hidden 7-0

It may not be false based on the sub-thread and it kinda reads like an ad or spam but this is from a longtime poster. A spam ad from a longtime DUer would be a first but I think discussion is better than no discussion.

[eridani]

46. I think it did look like commercial spam to a jury

If the post count had been 2 or something, I could see it, but not a long-time poster.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

49. It was ad copy spam.

Not the first time the poster did it either (with almost the same word for word post). The website is quite suspect looking as well. Looks almost like a pyramid scheme.

[Siwsan]

27. My take is, to each their own

I've tried homeopathic remedies that worked, I've tried some that don't. I've tried "science based" medications that worked, I've tried some that don't. I will say that the sickest I've ever been in my life was when I followed a doctor's prescription regiment for a chronic bronchial condition. This was a repeat problem, sometimes several times a year. Then I stopped the medications and started using common sense old school remedies, and I've been infection free for decades. While I would never pressure anyone else into doing what I did, neither would I discourage them. There are positives and negatives to both choices.

What other people choose to use is none of my business and I wouldn't dream of disrespecting them by hitting them over the head with my choices. It's no way to convince anyone of anything but is more likely to make them dig their heels in even deeper.

[HuckleB]

34. In other words, let the scam artists reign free!

Who needs regulation at all?

Say what?

[Siwsan]

40. You really like to argue, don't you

I don't. It rarely changes anyone's mind.

[HuckleB]

42. Why do you not stand up against scam artists?

I find that tends to allow their unethical behavior to flourish, which makes not standing up against them unethical, too.

[Siwsan]

45. Oh, I take a really strong stand against big pharma

I could now repeat your statement, word for word.

[IDemo]

28. Allow me to add: Lipo Flavinoid

It supposedly will cure or ease the symptoms of tinnitus. My ears are still squealing every bit as loudly after several bottles. Save your money.

[HuckleB]

35. Who recommended it to you?

Just curious. Cheers!

[IDemo]

37. The commercials on the idiot box

After having the sound of a 10 kHz squeal in each ear for many years, I was willing to give it a try.

[HuckleB]

38. Got it.

Those need to go away, too. Pharma and supplement commercials are completely hideous.

Take care!