Post here if you support Obama for re-election, but will not be silenced about your principles

[Ken Burch]

Look, pretty much everybody here at DU will be working hard for the re-election of the administration. Fair expectation.

What is NOT fair is to demand that we be silent when the administration does things that offend our moral sensibilities or our values as progressives as human beings.

Defending our values is not "Obama-bashing".

And refusing to publicly speak out about issues that concern you is not much different than abandoning your principles. No one has the right to ask anybody here to check their souls at the door.

OK?

[The Traveler]

1. Exactly

Look, Obama is not the problem. He's doing a relatively good job in a really screwed up set of circumstances and system.

We have to cleanse the system.

But first, we have to re-elect this man ... because he is at least not opposed to decent purposes. Nah. He is a good guy and he is doing the best he knows how to do.

But it is naive to think he can fix this ... Nah. We gotta fix this. The most we can expect from a well intentioned President is damage control. If ya wanna fix it, it is up to us. And that is going to require us to get off our asses and into the streets. Polite discourse ain't gonna get the job done right now.

Trav

[coalition_unwilling]

5. The more I see of Obama's fundamental decency (and conversely

the more I witness of Romney's inept sociopathy), the more convinced I am that November 2012 is shaping up to be an epic landslide for Obama of LBJ-Goldwater '64 proportions. I'm hoping Obama's coattails produce big Dem pickups in down ballot races.

I don't think the polls have picked it up yet, but I have faith that the American people will see through Romney for the empty suit he is.

Obama is not a dictator in our system and, thus, it's those down-ballot races that can start the cleansing process.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

2. Well said

[Warren DeMontague]

3. Im holding out hope for a saner 2nd term. Ending the drug war, marriage equality

If the scotus goes ahead and destroys the health care law, a full bore press for Medicare for all.

of COURSE I'm supporting Obama. That doesn't mean I "support" his DOJ making dragging cancer grannies off to prison for smoking pot a top law enforcement priority.

[agentS]

4. I won't let anybody silence me!

If I have a complaint about the admin, I'll email them directly. I won't be silent.

I sure as hell won't be happy with a President R-Money. We're recovering from a financial recession and the GOP wants to put Mr. Wall Street on the ticket? Talk about tone deaf!

The president may do things I dislike from time to time, but at least he also listens and acts accordingly from time to time. We wouldn't get that at all from R-Money.

[limpyhobbler]

6. Not be silenced, but might voluntarily wish to temper my criticisms a bit until after the election.

As a sensible choice, nobody is forcing.

[Major Hogwash]

7. This is just a message board, Ken. It doesn't affect the real world.

It's sort of odd that you think it does.
So, say whatever you want to say about the President of the United States.
Just don't expect me to agree with what you say about him.

[Ken Burch]

8. There are those on this message board who are trying to silence the actual progressives

And there is no good reason to do so.

We don't have to be silent, for example, on the bloodsoaked and immoral drone program. And we don't have to give Obama a pass on the general militarist aspect of his foreign policy. Neither are crucial to getting the guy re-elected.

It's not like he's running for president of 19th Century Prussia, for God's sake.

And of course you have the right to disagree with me or others...but not to refer to legitimate criticism and discussion as "bashing". It's only the right that Obama-bashes.

[Major Hogwash]

9. Well, unfortunately, that is the "real Scotsman" argument.

When you said "actual progressives", that is the parallel to that argument.

I love you guys from Alaska.
When you say "good night", I don't see you for another 6 months.

That's a joke, son. ~ Foghorn Leghorn

[Ken Burch]

10. Yeah, yeah...it gets dark up here in winter...we get it...

It can't be progressive to call legitimate discussion "bashing".

Or to expect people to be silent about things like the drone program that have killed a lot of innocent people and had no positive results for the world.

Tell me when you disagree, fine...but it's not anyone's place to tell people to be silent just because it's an election year. To be silent is to surrender. And no greater good is ever served by silence during election years.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Oh bullshit Ken

No one is trying to silence anyone. The Nader Nuts, Paul Crazies and LaRouchies who have been banned from DU can still criticize President Obama until they are blue in the face.

Just not here.

No one is trying to silence anyone.

Don

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Ken and others get to feel more heroic if the big Other is trying to silence them

I won't begrudge them their harmless fantasy.

[SidDithers]

24. Well said, Don...nt

Sid

[GeorgeGist]

25. Oh bullshit Don

Just not here.

George.

[NNN0LHI]

34. We will find out who is talking bullshit George

[freshwest]

60. Oooh, I love that kitteh, he's my favorite. I thank, then I steal.

[snooper2]

36. Silence you how? You can post as many threads on the Intertubes as you want..

To be honest, most of DU is pretty silent regardless. I mean, it's not like this is YouTube...

But if people follow my lead we can make it close...
Check this mix out Ken, pimpin cool

[AtomicKitten]

46. hey

[freshwest]

61. Peace, Man! Like it.

[one_voice]

52. .....

[Ken Burch]

12. If it doesn't affect the real world, that gives you even less reason to mock this thread n/t.

[radhika]

11. I see Obama as a place holder until Progressives get our act together..

and find better ways to advance our goals. Those Right Wing billions must NOT succeed in undoing centuries of human rights development.

[eridani]

13. +1000 n/t

[jimlup]

14. Yep! /nt

[Bolo Boffin]

15. I support Obama for re-election and I will not be silenced about my principles.

Absolutely.

[LeftofObama]

16. Very well said!

I'll be the first in line (figuratively) to vote for President Obama in November, but I'll be damned if I'll keep my mouth shut when he does something I disagree with.

[progressoid]

17. Uh oh, someone didn't get his poooony.

Kidding, of course.

[Shankapotomus]

18. And conversely,

just because Obama doesn't do everything you want when you want it, doesn't mean he doesn't want it done eventually either. The fact is, when you are in power, you have more parameters to consider than the average citizen. If you don't get reelected, all those things your constituents are criticizing and pushing you for don't happen. And sometimes, if they happen too fast, guess what? - you don't get reelected.

And how much change can you create if you're not in power anymore?

It's a balance and I'm afraid some progressives don't understand the importance of holding on to power and getting what you really want done.

Even in power, you have to pick your battles carefully, when you have the best possible advantage over your opponents, so you win those battles.

I think a lot of progressives naively beleive if someone they elected is not doing everything they expected of them when they expect it, then they are not really progressives or they are phonies and against progressivess. Not so.

[Egalitarian Thug]

37. You're not wrong, but the entire premise is that reelection is the primary goal.

Service isn't about self promotion. We seem to have forgotten that we elect them to serve us, not the other way around.

[redqueen]

38. OMGWTFPOLITICS!

And don't forget, these rules apply to DUers too. If you don't rant and rave about all the outrages at very opportunity, you're not a True Progressive.

[Ken Burch]

54. Neither Gandhi, MLK, Cesar Chavez, Emma Goldman, or anyone in the peace movement

Last edited Tue May 1, 2012, 10:47 PM - Edit history (1)

was ever "in power".

(You can also add Larry Kramer, the IWW, Dorothy Day, Phil Ochs, Sojourner Truth, and many, many others forgotten in the mists of time to that list)

Nonetheless, they created A LOT of change.

[Shankapotomus]

58. That's true

Each situation is different and you can't rule out usefulness of pressure from the people.

[quinnox]

20. that goes without saying as far

as I'm concerned. I have never been a sheep type or someone who can be cowed into submission by those who may talk a bunch of BS about wacky or fanatical notions of what can be talked about in a misguided attempt to control the conversation. These types tend to annoy me, and I'm not quiet about it.

[GeorgeGist]

22. +1

[mmonk]

23. Present and accounted for.

[bigtree]

26. I dunno. No one here asked anyone to 'check their souls at the door'

I do have a problem with folks who just can't seem to find one thing to post positively about the president and still expect to be considered 'supporters' I'm really talking about those folks who search for every negative article or opinion piece to throw in folks faces here, as if to say, 'Is this really who you're voting for?' Folks who do nothing but, in effect, campaign against the President in their posts at every opportunity. Why should anyone who's interested in the reelection of this President regard such efforts as benign or virtuous in the midst of an election? Fact is, NONE of the issues progressive Democrats care about will be safe if we don't reelect Barack Obama. It's a curious effort to grouse and bitch everyday (as many do here) about our presumptive Democratic nominee and expect to be regarded as 'working hard for the re-election of the administration.' I'd expect SOME effort to promote the presidency from folks who say they support it. Fair expectation . . .

[gratuitous]

27. Yep; the Constitution still means what it says

And the President is supposed to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, first and foremost of all his duties.

[truebrit71]

28. Sums my position up precisely.

What was it Lyndon Johnson said, "I'd rather be inside the tent pissing out, rather than outside trying to piss in?"...

If Rmoney gets elected we stand zero chance of liberal policies being enacted, but with Obama we will at least have a Chief Executive that would be willing to listen.

[pampango]

29. Will be interesting to see how many post that they are willing to be silent about their principles.

My guess is that it will be very few.

I don't know why folks would post here if they really didn't believe what they were posting or why they would stop posting for the duration of the campaign just because they disagree with some of Obama's policies.

I also don't know why anyone would suggest that other posters should stop negative posts about Obama and his policies (other than suggesting voting for Mitt which is hard to fathom any DUer recommending). Some posters seem to have nothing good to say about Obama. In some cases that may be that many are more likely to post when they disagree with something and are upset than when they agree with something and are reasonably satisfied rather than having nothing good to say about him (or, of course, not thinking that Mitt is a hundred times worse).

[great white snark]

30. I support the President and the ability to disagree without being accused of silencing.

[ecstatic]

31. The problem is, all the negativity coming from the left

is muddying the water and will likely reduce the youth turnout, as well as reduce the number of independents voting for Obama.

So basically, the result of your keyboard activism is actually more rightwing policies.

[quinnox]

33. a couple things in response

1. If what you say is true, that is not the fault of the left that some are feeling uninspired or negative, but of the president and his policies. If he had governed more from the left and been more progressive, then the negativity would be lessened to a great degree and the enthusiasm would be much higher.

2. Second, if we are only talking about DU, I think the argument falls apart. Because Du is not that influential anyway, and most of what is said here is of no consequence to be blunt. It won't depress turnout one iota.

If you are referring to the left in general as a whole, and not DU, then fine, my response doesn't apply in that case.

[Ken Burch]

51. The enthusiasm was lost because he did little to be enthusiastic about.

He ordered the "Obama movement" to give up organizing after the election and to NEVER challenge him from below, and that's half the reason why his legislative victories were usually only half-a-slice, let alone half-a-loaf, and therefore too small to be improved on later(you can only improve a bad bill if you get at least half of what you wanted in the original bill-less than that and there's nothing to build on).

It's on Obama to restoke the fire...and sometimes, I think he gets that.

He does need to admit, once and for all, that there IS no "center" and that there will never be any point ever again in even bothering to try to work "across the aisle".

[white_wolf]

64. I disagree.

As one of the "youth turnout" let me see that it isn't 't DU that is making me lose enthusiasm, it isn't DU that is making some of my friends consider staying home, it is Obama's policies that are doing that. His use of drone assassins, his continued use of the Patriot Act and other attacks on civil liberties, his failure to close Gitmo, his militarism, his support of Wall Street over the rest of the country, the fact that he did not even fight for single-payer, etc. Those are the type of things that will hurt Obama in 2012 with the youth vote and likely other voters as well.

[WI_DEM]

32. I think most people feel this way. I do think there are one or two people on DU

that constantly post anti-Obama propaganda who will not be voting for Obama in November.

[Egalitarian Thug]

35. Hear, hear! n/t

[bananas]

39. Reminder: Obama would be banned from Democratic Underground.

Skinner: "this is a litmus test issue, because we are talking about REAL PEOPLE"

Skinner: "We expect all of our members to support equal rights for all people, regardless of sexual orientation. That includes the right to marry. ... If you are opposed to gay rights, you are a homophobe. Don't share that particular point of view here or else you're going to get banned. You've been warned."

Obama: "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage."

For links to sources:

see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1503203&mesg_id=1503203

and http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1503203&mesg_id=1503358


And a recent article from three weeks ago:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/09/nation/la-na-obama-gay-marriage-20120410

Obama faces pressure over same-sex marriage

As the Democratic Party considers adding support for the issue to its official platform, the president is urged to give his blessing.

April 09, 2012|By Michael A. Memoli, Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON — President Obama, who has fended off questions about his position on same-sex marriage for nearly a year and a half by saying his views are "evolving," faces increasing pressure within his party as momentum builds to declare support for marriage equality in the party's official platform.

<snip>

Last week, four former Democratic National Committee chairmen issued a statement in support of openly endorsing gay marriage. They noted that nearly two dozen Democratic senators, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi and tens of thousands of party activists already backed the idea.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who will chair the Democratic National Convention, said last month that he supported a marriage equality plank because "it's basic to who we are."

"I don't think the government should be in that business of denying people the fundamental right to marry," Villaraigosa said at a Washington press breakfast.

<snip>

[Autumn]

40. I'm here. And you know what? There is no negativity

coming from the left here that will have any bearing on him winning re election.

[hifiguy]

41. Amen.

I will always vote for Democrats but I will not blindly worship them.

[Poll_Blind]

42. +1 nt

PB

[TriMera]

43. I agree. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

44. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Ken Burch.

[Bake]

45. I won't be silent, but I'll wait until AFTER the election!

NOTHING is more important than re-electing President Bararck Obama. The alternative is just unthinkable.

Bake

[Ken Burch]

49. After the election is too late.

They'll take your silence before as a mandate for every ugly choice they make afterwords(like so many right-wing posters here argued that the party backed Obama's Afghan Invasion because they didn't complain DURING the campaign-and yes, you DO have to be right-wing if you still defend the escalation in Afghanistan, because we were only fighting for the construction of the gas pipeline and never used our troops to stop oppression in that country).

[AnotherMcIntosh]

53. + 1

[Bake]

67. Sorry, but I'm not doing ANYTHING to risk a Rethug victory in the fall.

There's just too much riding on it.

Bake

[jwirr]

47. For sure.

[intheflow]

48. K&R. n/t

[varelse]

50. I'm down with that

I don't have a lot to say here myself, but I don't want anyone to feel that they need to be silent about their principles when posting here.

And of course, I support Obama for re-election. There is no sane alternative.

[Odin2005]

55. Checking in!

[PufPuf23]

56. Agree and rec. nt

[Bjorn Against]

57. I support him as the lesser of two evils

I have had some serious disagreements with Obama's policies and I am not going to pretend I am enthusiastic about voting for him again, but I will vote for him because despite all his problems he is still a hell of a lot better than Romney.

[Ken Burch]

59. I know, I know.

But, dammit, we had the right to expect MORE than that...this was supposed to be a chance to vote for GOOD, rather than simply to minimize evil.

And the worst thing is people denying that we EVER had the right to think that anything beyond the lessening of evils was even possible.

[RZM]

62. This thread would have more meaning if anybody were actually trying to silence you

But they aren't. You're speaking your mind on DU just as you always have. And I'm sure you will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

it's a bit like saying:

'Nobody is going to tell me I can't smoke cigarettes!' Just go down to the store and buy them. Not everybody approves, but nobody is going to stop you, even here.

Not everybody is going to agree with what you say, but nobody has the power to silence you.

[Rex]

63. Just like everything else.

I will decide what to think about any given outcome based on what I see and read.

[Zalatix]

65. I'm with you on that. +100,000!

[Duppers]

66. amen

I want Geithner fired.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/