Why we should not support Hillary

[RobertEarl]

Hope and Change defeated her in 2008.

Nothing has changed that fact.

People on the streets in 2008 told me Hillary
would be the Democratic Party nominee.

But from my reading of DU and all the serious
activists there was painted a different picture.

A story that came true due to Hope and Change.

Hillary is not bringing Hope and Change. She brings more of the same, and that is why we must work hard to find a new and better candidate or we shall suffer under another republican president.

[DURHAM D]

1. Your "we" is not me. nt

[Sheepshank]

2. I will support HRC...especially if she is the DEM nominee for POTUS

please take me off your mailing list too.

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. I'd be quite happy, if ...

HRC (or any Democratic nominee) brought more of President Obama's, same!

[RobertEarl]

4. I would be happy, also

But she seems too set in her ways and she just isn't doing what it will take to energize the real serious activists who came out of the woodwork to support Hope and Change.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

6. Don't support her all you want UNLESS and until she becomes the candidate for the Dem party

Then don't support her at your and our peril.

[RobertEarl]

8. See my avatar?

Do you understand what that means?

I don't need lectures from anyone on how I should vote.

Thank you and have a nice day.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

9. I wasnt lectuing you at all, I was just pointing out the peril we are all in if she is the

nominee and is not elected, or for that matter the peril we are in if any republican is elected

and my eyesight is bad so I can barely make out what your avie is

[RobertEarl]

18. So

You have this idea that I don't know how bad a republican is? Is this really the level of your understanding and respect for fellow long time DUers?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

21. Isnt what I said, your OP reads as follows "Why we should not support Hillary"

now if you had added "in the primaries" i would have had nothing to add

I myself may not if Bernie is running - in the primaries, that is

[guillaumeb]

36. looks like a yellow dog to me

no lecture needed. Yellow dog democrats get it.

[RobertEarl]

39. Exactly. Thank you. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. It wasn't the "real serious activists" that gave us "Hope and Change" ...

In fact, the "real serious activists" were the ones that formed PUMA.

[RobertEarl]

12. Not where I live

The PUMA were the single issue, to hell with any equality but their own, narrow-minded blowhards.

The serious activists got out the vote for Obama against all odds and carried the victory for Hope and Change. The Clintons were just more of the same and they lost.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

13. No shit...I remember it well.

I remember a very liberal woman administrator on a board I was active on, all of a sudden when it was Obama vs Clinton, you would not believe the racist crap that came out of her keyboard.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

5. Obama has simply worked "fucking miracles" given a. what he was left and b. obstruction

If HIllary accomplished half of what he has, we would be fine.

She still has a long ways to go putting Wall Street in their place, but to be fair so does Obama.

But Obama literally saved America.

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. And ...

Shhh ... the wasn't much policy day light between 2008 Candidate Obama and 2008 Candidate HRC. So ... I'd be fine with a HRC Presidency (should she be the Democratic nominee).

I just hope she retains some of President Obama's planning team ... and keeps President Obama's telephone number.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

14. And apologizes for the race baiting from back then, so folks like bravenak and others

can be relatively comfortable with her.

She owes them, and you

[RobertEarl]

15. Obama was anti-war

Clinton voted for war. Big Dif in policy.

[1StrongBlackMan]

23. No Candidate Obama was anti-Stupid War. n/t

[RobertEarl]

28. She has claimed she was wrong to vote that way

I knew it was wrong then; half the democrats voting knew it was wrong then and the other half were just scared that their precious political lives would be damaged if they voted TO NOT GO TO WAR IN IRAQ.

Please, make no more excuses to me about voting for that war.

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. Doesn't this ...

She has claimed she was wrong to vote that way

mean, she and Candidate Obama agree?

[RobertEarl]

35. No

I seriously doubt Obama would have voted for the bush invasion of Iraq.

I think Hillary knows her war mongering cost her that election.

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Okay. n/t

[CreekDog]

10. Reverse psychology

I'm not saying that's what you intended.

I'm saying that's what it means for me.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Makes me like her even more too.../NT

[NaturalHigh]

16. Another Clinton-bashing thread.

How refreshing.

I'm supporting Secretary Clinton. Frankly I think we would have been better off if she had been President for the last eight years.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I'm more than fine with President Obama.

I believe they would have governed essentially the same.

[RobertEarl]

22. Not bashing

Just history and real life politics.

Hillary would probably have been elected if she hadn't voted for bushes war. The Hope of no more war, and a Change from war mongering is what inspired the serious activists to get out the vote in 2008 and get Obama elected.

The Clintons are just more of the same old politics that the young and the old-wisers reject, and will not work for.

[NaturalHigh]

26. Cool story bro.

If Secretary Clinton decides to run, I will work harder for her than I ever have for a candidate in hopes that she can at least win our primary votes. Unfortunately, I know she's not going to get Oklahoma's electoral votes in the general election, but a change will come sooner or later I hope.

[NaturalHigh]

45. Thank you for your kind permission.

I'm looking forward to another Clinton presidency!

[MrMickeysMom]

47. ABSOLUTELY, RobertE...

This is what I've kept telling everyone here over and over. And, this is the REAL pity of it…

Had she come out when she had the chance to really speak of what a disaster Bush was getting us ing (which a person of her intellect was SO capable of understanding), she would have had the ENTIRE BASE in her court.

I would have walked into hell for her, but she BLEW it. She FUCKING BLEW it,and THAT is the truth, Ruth.

[RobertEarl]

49. That's the question

Did she blow it, or was she really for the war?

Her stances on Syria and Libya make one wonder if she is a closeted war monger.

[MrMickeysMom]

50. Here are my thoughts on that...

Hillary Clinton historically has shown some kind of passion for the women in her own circles and for women of nations without women's rights.

As a woman and an activist of human rights, I believe you cannot have two mind-sets of war and women's rights. Therefore, how can one develop cognitive dissidence of women's rights to change the world by any means necessary, including poisoning those environments through perpetual war?

Of course, I could be kidding myself.

[RobertEarl]

52. That is a REALLY good point

How can a person who is strong on women's issues be the same person who is in favor of the worst thing for innocent women and children? I don't like waffles. Or waffling like that. It's just more of the same old bs that got us invading Iraq .

How can all these Hillary supporters ignore that? How can they continue to make excuses for voting for war? Maybe they are not truly for women's rights to a safe environment free from war?

[MrMickeysMom]

54. They'll never admit they they vote for war...

That's why…

The mind works in mysterious ways!

[dissentient]

20. I think you make some good points

reccomended

[RobertEarl]

25. This is not being flippant

It comes from over 40 years of active political involvement and wisdom.

I fear that if Hillary is the D party nominee we will lose because she just can't bring what the country needs.

[NaturalHigh]

27. Seriously? You don't think Hillary Clinton can beat Bush or Walker?

Do you really believe that? I plan to take any odds on that one.

[RobertEarl]

34. The election will come down to this

Which candidate can get the most people to work to get out the vote.

I don't think Hillary can inspire the serious liberal left to work hard to get out the vote. She didn't do it in 2008, she shows no sign of being able do it now.

She does have tons of negative inspiration across the political spectrum and that is not good. Obama had even more negatives but he had what it takes to get the liberal left activists to work hard to get out the vote. He won.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. I have a bit of trepidation when it comes to the "smart" Bush,

But I would bet money on HRC against him. Against Scott Walker I am willing to bet a kidney on Hillary. The loser puts his or her name on a kidney donor list.

[NaturalHigh]

46. The doctors wouldn't let a fat guy like me donate a kidney...

but I'm with you in spirit here. If Walker can beat Secretary Clinton, I'll co-sign an open marker for a casino or something.

[MrMickeysMom]

48. This isn't a horse race...

We're way past the "our candidate would at least have a better chance than yours".

What it is going to take to turn this whole mess around is real leadership. And, NO. She doesn't portray it.

An Elizabeth Warren might, or Bernie Sanders might, and some unnamed person out there who we see coming out of nowhere might. But, she won't … and WE need one.

[hedgehog]

24. Not to mention - four more years of James Carville.

[leftofcool]

30. Another Hillary bashing thread. Aren't ya'll tired?

[RobertEarl]

33. No bashing

History and reality. Sorry if it goes against your emotions. But you are here to become educated, right?

Hillary brings no Hope and Change. She presents just more of the same tired thinking that got us into this mess. If you disagree with those facts, tell us why you think Hillary brings Hope and Change.

Or just keep bashing.....

[guillaumeb]

38. she just might bring hope and change

by inspiring millions of women to work even harder than they did, if that is possible, for President Obama. No Democratic President in my study of history is/was a perfect progressive candidate.

FDR is held up as the epitome of a progressive candidate who accomplished much, but some historians feel that his Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins, was the real driving force behind FDR. Perkins was the inspiration and driving force behind much if the New Deals' accomplishments, including the National Labor Relations Act and the Social Security Act, to name just two minor things she accomplished.

I feel that HRC has the intelligence and willingness to lead the country in a better direction.

[RobertEarl]

41. She has baggage

Obama had none and he was able to circle himself with new thinkers.

I see nothing new coming from candidate Hillary. And I don't cotton to this quote:
"... inspiring millions of women ..." as being a positive for Hillary.

[guillaumeb]

42. how so?

President Obama had no baggage but the GOP convinced a significant portion of the electorate that he did. Convinced them that he was a foreign born Muslim.

I would also not discount the power of inspiration.

[fadedrose]

31. I agree, but how do you suggest we find the right person

I suggested polling of every Democrat in any field and narrowing down to who gets the most support...they don't have to be in politics . . .

[we can do it]

32. WEE WEE WEE all the way home. WAAAAAAA

[Corey_Baker08]

51. Yes No Thanks, I'll Support Whomever Our Candidate Is Though...

I would hope you will also support the Democratic Nominee For President, Whomever that may be...

[Adrahil]

53. Good luck with your candidate. So far, she's mine. n/t