Is John Kennedy's definition of liberalism still relevant?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

[JonLP24]

1. I wish it was

especially the "policies abroad" part & "civil liberties"

[Agnosticsherbet]

6. As to polices abroad. Kennedy was imlicit in the overthrow of the Diem government of Vietnamin

in which Diem was assassinated. He led the CIA to meddle in Chillies elections and oppopsed leftist candidates. The Bay of PIgs invasion happened under his watch. And Kennedy took us closer to nuclear war than any President before or since. His escalation of our involvement in Vietnam was only exceeded by Lyndon Johnson.

Being libeal does not exclude a muscular, aggressive foreign diplomacy.

I lived through that period.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I posted it because while I agree with it I don't see it as some great leftist call to arms./NT

[JonLP24]

11. The world be a better place

if most people felt it was "call to arms". Health care, education, civil rights, jobs, better foreign policy, improved civil liberties nothing wrong with any of that, I can't think of anything else that would be a better "call to arms"

[JonLP24]

9. I think he wanted to go a different direction

The Kennedy administration certainly wanted all that and more which Kennedy was starting to anger them


LBJ changed the order 4 days into office.

He led the CIA? CIA wanted to do all this shit on their own.

Operation Northwoods was a series of proposals for actions against the Cuban government, that originated within the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) of the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other US government operatives to commit acts of terrorism against American civilians and military targets, blaming it on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The proposals were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

I'm not sure where I'd look to find it or what terms to enter but there has been more recent information regarding Kennedy's internal conflict with the Kennedy Administration. One of those is the CIA wanted to do a full of scale Bay of Pigs which Kennedy scaled back which pissed them off, especially after the invasion. I believe he was disillusioned by all this & wanted to reform the direction which got back on track with LBJ

At any rate, I was addressing the definition not the man who said it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. He is one of my heroes as his martyred brother.

But I ask myself how much I see them through the lens of their martyrdom.

[Agnosticsherbet]

12. LBJ'S Great Society Programs made him the geatest reformer since Roosevelt

and the second greatest reformer in the history of the Republic.

Yes, he certainly led the greatest escalation of the Vietnam war. But his liberal programs are a different side to a very complex man and makes him more liberal than any President since, including Jimmy Carter.

http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/gresoc.htm

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Lincoln and LBJ are the two greatest civil rights presidents in American history./NT

[Agnosticsherbet]

14. LBJ, with his great socity programs and the Ciiil Rights Acts was third.

[JonLP24]

15. In my opinion

I think LBJ was probably the most brilliant sociopath politician in American history.

As Johnson's biographer Robert Caro observes, "Johnson's ambition was uncommon—in the degree to which it was unencumbered by even the slightest excess weight of ideology, of philosophy, of principles, of beliefs."[

What I mean is Kennedy picks up to be VP to help him with the more conservative populations, as VP LBJ decides to take a hard left during the "peak of liberalism" before Kennedy (who was concerned about his re-election) putting him a spot (LBJ was asserting his power the whole time as VP) which worked that if it failed Kennedy takes the fall in the election if it works, he gets credit for being the first to do so publicly but as an expert political strategist, in hindsight, he timed it perfectly.

However, in 1948 you should read some of the rhetoric coming out of LBJs mouth when Harry Truman came out with his civil rights proposal took a very states right approach complaining about the anti-lynching laws in the proposal. He was a very public figure of the Southern bloc that turned on him at the convention. I don't think he cared about any of this, he was ambitious .

I'm having loading issues so I can't copy & paste but later into his administration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chaos I'd note the groups that were domestic spied on.

[Agnosticsherbet]

16. Check out his Great Society Programs and his civil Rights acts.

No doubt, he said terrible things.

But his achievements as President in those areas are his real legacy.

No one since has even come close, and Lincoln and Roosevelt are the only two that exceeded what he did.

[Spider Jerusalem]

18. Withdrawing 1000 troops would have left 15000 in-country.

And Bobby Kennedy was in charge of the "get Castro" Operation Mongoose (that didn't work). Which was a direct result of the failure of the Bay of Pigs (as was the Vietnam buildup, "showing toughness&quot .

The shock waves created in the Bay of Pigs rolled out across the CIA and the State Department. “As I said to the Attorney General the other day, when you are in a fight and knocked off your feet, the most dangerous thing to do is to come out swinging wildly,” wrote Jack Kennedy’s adviser Walt Rostow to the president on 21 April. “Clearly we must cope with Castro in the next several years… . But let us do some fresh homework… . Vietnam is the place where—in the Attorney General’s phrase—we must prove that we are not a paper tiger… . We have to prove that Vietnam and Southeast Asia can be held.”

http://penguinrandomhouse.ca/hazlitt/longreads/one-most-ridiculous-things-has-ever-occurred-history-united-states

See also: http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKmongoose.htm

[Fumesucker]

2. I think so but I'm a long way out of the American mainstream...

[mountain grammy]

3. It was for Jack Kennedy, an unfulfilled promise.

I like this definition. If it was good enough for JFK, it's good enough for me.

[jwirr]

4. It is relevant but the hope that we can suceed with it is getting bashed around quite a bit.

[msongs]

5. doing nothing while republicans steal our right to vote is illogical, not liberal nt

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. Yes, it is still relevant.

especially civil rights ans civil liberties that are the core of liberal philosophy.

[Octafish]

17. For me and a lot of DUers I respect.

Those who don't understand why, I feel sorry for.

As for the trolls, what do they know?