Hillary versus the unknown fictitious way MORE Better Dem primary Candidate

[boston bean]

That we all know, just know, is way better than Clinton. Based on what, I have no idea, but it seems many believe that a non existent candidate in a Dem primary is way BETTER than Clinton.

Even though, NO one has declared a candidacy as of yet.

Hey, Hillary's record is clear, it is there for everyone to see. It means nothing in the realm of an election until we do know exactly who the alternative is. You want everyone tearing her down before others have even been vetted? Well, be careful for what you wish for.

So, yes, saying she is better than a republican means something, cause we know that if she were to run and win the primaries, there would undoubtedly be a republican, any republican running against her in a general election. And for sure hell, she WOULD be better than any Republican. It's not a campaign slogan, but the truth.

You just can't argue something that doesn't exist. I'll be more than happy to discuss these things when I have something to compare it too. Until then, I think all this anti Hillary nonsense, is just that. I'm not about to tear down a potential candidate until I know what we're up against. No one can argue Hillary is worst than someone we don't even know exists yet. Why, cause you just don't know, and I'm not going to play that game.

[mylye2222]

1. Of Course the Better countender is " unknown" because Team Clinton and Co. already locked up ...

Already full process in order to set unperturbed coronation of Her Majesty Hillary.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Are they physically preventing opponents from challenging her?/NT

[NCTraveler]

43. This thought process makes such little sense.

I really can't grasp it. I get the huge supports of hers. I get those that can't stand her. The argument she is being hoisted upon us and we are victims to the situation is pathetic at best. Nefarious at worst. Going with the second one with your post.

[JaneyVee]

2. We're up against Ted Cruz.

THAT should motivate anyone against theocratic-fascism to head to the polls and bring large numbers of voters with them.

[freshwest]

37. If a person considers themselves to be immune to theocratic-fascism, or neo-feudalism, they won't.

The groundwork has already been laid, enconomically and socially. The memes have been reinforced for years.

The big push under Reagan has grown geometrically. There are some that will profit from the losses of other Americans. I'd say their fellow men, but they do not see them as fellows any longer. They believe they are their enemies on a long list.

It's not just the 1%, but their underlings who will do the dirty work for them. They are training for this job every day to make themselves a place in this recreated system.



Entertainment, media and churches put a pretty face on it and those who see the writing on the wall are now adapting to it. They are getting into churches or other groups to network.

The church network was the backbone of the civil rights movement at one time. Now they've veered off. We are in a period of time that Americans are ill prepared to deal with.

Time is not on our side. The world's climate is changing and the carrying capacity is going to be reduced save some 'miracle of science,' but that's an oxymoron. People are going to react to it in different ways.

PBO and Sanders have warned us of the urgency. People don't want to hear it. They want their fantasy.

[cali]

3. Martin O'Malley is almost certainly running, as is Hillary

Martin O'Malley exists. You now have someone to compare her to.

and you are about as pro-hill as anyone here. This is just another lame-o attempt to forestall any criticism at all of your beloved hilly.

[boston bean]

4. My beloved hilly?

When he or she officially announces and the vetting begins on both, we will have much to discuss.

Martin O'Malley doesn't have the public record Clinton does and there isn't much to compare at this time. So, I'm not going to be arguing unknowns.

[cali]

7. Martin O'Malley has an extensive public record

and if we're discussing Hillary, we sure can discuss O'Malley. She hasn't announced yet either. You can't have it every which way.

[boston bean]

11. Uh, Martin O'Mally has been vetted by the press like Hillary?

and has an extensive public record like hers? I don't think that is the case. The vetting for O'Malley hasn't even scratched the surface? Why, cause he hasn't announced yet! However, it's easy to argue things you don't like about Hillary cause her record is there for everyone to see, even before she announces.

And I am not trying to have it every which way. Not sure what leads you to believe that. Hillary's record on some things stink. But she aint the devil. And if you are honest, you would admit there might be some things that come up with O'Malley that don't float your boat.

And until the process begins, you can't say O'Malley is better. His public record against hers at this time, is light.

[cali]

13. Did I say that? No. I said he has an extensive public record- as does anyone

who has been in electoral politics for over 20 years.

And sure he's been vetted extensively. He ran for Governor twice. He was Governor for 8 years. Just because it's not as extensively as Hillary, doesn't mean that doesn't count.

No, Hillary isn't the devil. But her judgment is highly questionable on many issues.

I can say that I prefer O'Malley to Hillary. I can say I think he's a better candidate. And I do.

[treestar]

12. So name O'Malley's positives

Including how he can beat the Republican.

[LynnTTT]

52. Do some homework

j Just go to google and type in his name. Why does everyone think they need validations on every news site?

[treestar]

55. We're debating here

So I'd think people wanting to support a candidate would want to make that charge themselves. Telling the people you need to convince that they should find out for themselves is pretty ineffective.

[hrmjustin]

18. Hilly?

[NCTraveler]

44. "all of your beloved Hilly."

Just a sentence used to attempt to stop honest debate.

[Lancero]

5. Actually, we've already got three candidates who have declared they will run.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026398787

[treestar]

14. lol.

Vermin Love Supreme is an American performance artist, and activist who is known for running as an alternative candidate in various local, state, and national elections in the United States. Supreme is known for wearing a boot shaped hat and carrying a large toothbrush.He has said that if elected President of the United States, he will pass a law requiring people to brush their teeth. He also campaigned in 2012 on a platform of zombie apocalypse awareness (and zombie-based energy plan) and time travel research, and he promises a free pony for every American. Supreme claims to mock the political system. In 2011, he participated in the Occupy Boston protests.

He sounds like a corporatist in bed with the tooth brush industry!

Jeff Boss is an American politician. He was an independent candidate for President of the United States in the 2008 and 2012 elections.Boss is a 9/11 truther who holds that the United States government, specifically the National Security Agency, is responsible for the September 11 attacks. He claims to have witnessed the government arrange the attacks.

Um, no.

Robert "Robby" Wells (born April 10, 1968) is an American politician and former college football coach and player. He was the head football coach at Savannah State University in Savannah, Georgia for the 2008 and 2009 seasons.

Wells unsuccessfully sought the Constitution Party's nomination for President of the United States in the 2012 presidential election. He is seeking the presidential nomination of the Democratic Party in the 2016 presidential election.

Hilariously, went for the Constitution Party's nomination because the Reform Party declined.

[freshwest]

39. Yeah, I read those. What a farce. n/t

[Logical]

6. All I will say about her is she is better than any GOP candidate. That's about it! nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. And, in terms of the General Election choice ...

that should be enough, i.e., despite our frustrations, should HRC be the Democratic nominee ... she would/should be the rational choice of/for the left.

[Logical]

16. Should be the rational choice for the left?? I hope you mean because she has the best chance....

of winning and not that she is the best progressive out there. Because she is far from it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

19. I mean ...

given our current binary electoral system, i.e., one nominee from the Democratic Party and one nominee from the republican party, and allowing for write-in/3rd party candidates, HRC (should she be the Democratic nominee) should be the rational choice of the US political left.

[fadedrose]

17. I donno 'bout that

"better than any GOP candidate," is probably true. But it's also true that a lot of Democrats think that she is "the same as some GOP candidates."

Jimmy Carter did not have the full support of Democrats; some were pushing for Edward Kernnedy to win the nomination. I think that an elected president needs total, or almost total, support from his party to have a successful term. Mrs. Clinton may win votes, but not the hearts of the majority of Democrats, who will be waiting to see if their worst fears come true.

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. Please don't confuse the voices of DU ...

as representative of "a lot of Democrats" ... the fact is, some of these DU voices are (self-admittedly) "Democrats", as their 3rd or 4th political descriptor.

[fadedrose]

23. What would be their 1st, 2nd and 3rd descriptors?

I'm a Roosevelt Democrat. What descriptor would you assign him?

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. Well ...

What would be their 1st, 2nd and 3rd descriptors?

From what I've seen:

"Progressive" followed by "liberal", then FDR/Roosevelt Democrat.

[wyldwolf]

38. What's a 'Roosevelt Democrat?'

Seriously, what does that even mean?

[fadedrose]

41. If you have to ask

you may as well be a Republican.....

[wyldwolf]

45. In other words, you can't answer. It's just a slogan you heard somewhere.

[fadedrose]

46. When I was 7 years old

My dad listened to all of Roosevelt's fireside chats on the radio. No one was allowed to speak while he listened intently. He told me what a great man this was.

CCC camps, Social Security, and a bunch of other stuff he did to put people to work, and his wife, Eleanor, brought this country back from the depression of '28. Dad lived through that depression, so he knew better than I what a great man this was.

He did a damned good job handling the war chores in Europe and the Pacific.

When someone says his name, I get a tug at my heart.

I ASK YOU!. What the hell is a 3rd way Democrat and why do we need one? When I see or hear your candidate, I get a feeling of dread that I can't dispatch, no heart tugs, sorry.

And as the Democrat you claim to be, be ashamed for not knowing what Roosevelt means to the people who became Democrats because of this man....

[wyldwolf]

47. So what's an FDR Democrat?

[fadedrose]

50. Not so much was he worried about the middle class

and making deals. He loved and pitied the poor - something no Democrat does since Bill Clinton voted against a lot of the welfare programs to compromise and win favor with the Republicans.

Helping the poor and uninsured were Obama's goals, and the middle class.

When has your candidate ever mentioned the poor? I don't recall.

When she finally does, she will be an FDR candidate. But the 3rd way will not help anyone but the rich. Shades of Ronald Reagan and his trickle down bullshit.

She only speaks when it pays big money - does she tour Detroit, slum areas, Walter Reed weekly, Union conferences? She can't because she's lose the support of the wealthy 1%. We, the poor are only given a carefully written statement given only after she puts a wet finger up to see where the wind is blowing. These are my opinions, and another opinion is that she and Bill are not worthy to shine Obama's shoes.
?

[wyldwolf]

51. ok, so FDR Democrats wish to emulate FDR. Would that be accurate?

[fadedrose]

53. Not "wish"

and not emulate. No one can emulate him. Especially someone who doesn't know what he stood for. And people didn't love him because he hired them to "love" him. They did it freely. No promised jobs, no deals with banks.

I am tired of this and it could all be avoided if HC had the courage or good sense to announce and then others would follow suit. Her psychology isn't working because, like the folks in Ferguson who had to wait all day and half the night to hear the results of the Grand Jury, those of us who didn't llike her are liking her less and less with each passing day.

[wyldwolf]

54. ok, so what is an FDR Democrat?

[Revanchist]

48. That's an awfully low bar

A damp sponge is better than the GOP candidate.

[Thinkingabout]

9. K & R, good post,

Put their best up and determine who the best candidate will be in the primary. It is the same old RW talking points, the GOP would love to see someone other than Hillary running, they don't have the answer to Hillary.

[GeorgeGist]

15. Hillary isn't ready.

[Savannahmann]

21. OK, how does she win on the issues?

The Democrats want to win, given. So how do we win on the issues? We ignored the issues and ran on personality and the slogan war on women in 2014 and the Republicans not only picked up enough seats in the Senate to take control, but picked up enough to be firmly in control.

Let's start with the groups that tend to support Democrats. Does anyone think that Hillary will get more of the Women's vote than President Obama did? In 2008 President Obama got 56% of the Women's vote, in 2012 he got 55%. We can assume that nationally, Hillary would do as well as President Obama with women. But how about in the key states? In Ohio, the election for Governor showed that the Democratic Candidate got 37% of the Women's vote. http://www.cnn.com/election/2014/results/state/OH

Well, we can lose Ohio, no problem. We have plenty of states to make up for Ohio man. Relax.

In Illinois, 58% of the women voted for Senator Durbin. http://www.cnn.com/election/2014/results/state/IL Yet, 7% of the women then turned around and voted for the Republican for Governor.

So the best we can say is that the Women's vote is probably going to be around 55% to 56% nationally. Key states are up in the air, and who knows how those will turn out.

Unions. As I've pointed out before, Unions are firm in their opposition to the TPP and especially Fast Track. The Unions have warned Senator Wyden of Oregon that his chances on reelection drop dramatically to coin toss areas if he supports the TPP and Fast Track. Besides the votes, Unions also provide the Party with volunteers, and donations. So running a candidate who is in favor of TPP and especially Fast Track risks reducing the support we get from the Unions. Losing that union support, and even a significant percentage of those votes, puts getting Hillary elected in doubt. To overcome that we would need to get at least 60% of the women's vote. Now, it's not unheard of for us to get that much of the vote, but it is fairly rare. Oregon is one example where we did. http://www.cnn.com/election/2014/results/state/OR

Yet, we pretend that the issues won't matter, or that the voter will look past them to find Hillary somehow a unifying figure. For that to happen, Hillary would have to have favorables out the wazoo. I'm talking the need of popularity seen only in rock stars.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

She doesn't have it. She just doesn't have it. Her favorables were much higher, when she wasn't being looked at as the nominee presumptive. As a party we're viewed unfavorably as well. http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/democratic-party-favorable-rating

Now, these are not RW attack sites. These are not RW talking points, these are cold hard facts that we have to address if we're going to mount a serious challenge for the White House. If we do that, we stand a good chance of winning the White House, and we stand a fair chance of taking the Senate back. We should be focusing on the issues, and identifying issues that are popular with the public. Instead we're taking polls that at this point are about as useful as a Most Popular vote at a Suburban High School and pretending that the issue has already been decided, everyone can bow down now, Hillary is it. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026380105

If we continue on this path, the idea that these early polls are not only interesting, but indicative of some sort of outcome prediction this far out, and we are not just doomed, we would become little more than a regionally powerful minority political power with little to no influence reduced to shouting me too when the Republicans say they love America.

So my focus is the same as it was a year ago as we looked towards the Midterms. Getting our politicians out there talking about issues, getting them to embrace some populist issues so we can garner support and win. This idea is so radical, so obviously insane that it could never work. All we have time for is pithy slogans and asinine pictures with text that show how awful the Republicans are. Guess what, it's not working. The Republican party is about as unfavorable as our own party. http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/republican-party-favorable-rating

Ok, there is a slight difference. We're a full point six percent more popular. That by the way looks like this. 0.6%. That lead is so insignificant as to be useless. Interesting note, the Republicans won control of the Senate while they were way more unpopular than we were. More than half the people viewed the Republicans unfavorably, but they still won. It could have been the Republicans focusing on issues, no of course not. We had a way better meme, war on women, and the Republicans are so stupid.

So obviously issues matter, and in picking our candidate, we have to pick the one who is on the populist side of some issues. At least if we plan on winning votes. Hillary isn't that person. She's on the unpopular side of too many issues. We'll lose, badly if we run her. We'll stand outside the fence screaming at the Republicans as they go into the White House to work every day. We'll rail and rage at them as they control the Senate, and the House. We'll come up with more pithy slogans and cleaver pictures to show how awful the Republicans are, and they will be awful as they run their legislative agenda right through Congress and it gets signed into law.

That is our future, and instead of defining ourselves based upon issues for the future, we're trying to gin up support for one of the most deeply flawed candidates I've seen in my entire life.

[PBass]

31. "Does anyone think that Hillary will get more of the Women's vote than President Obama did?"

Absolutely yes.

[Savannahmann]

33. Ok based on what?

What is it that you are basing your belief on. Other women candidates didn't manage it. So is it a really strong feeling? Desperate hope? Or is it a Magic 8 Ball that has given you this insight?

[fadedrose]

49. And, she lost in the primaries

where people were encouraged to throw Obama under the bus and say that they were "Clinton" Democrats. That tactic didn't work anywhere.

But it freed Obama from being loyal to his party by not doing things that would make them lose votes in that election. Thus, the immigration executive order and other controversial issues, like handing Netanyahu his fanny, something he would have done if he had to worry about his "team" winning seats...

[beachbum bob]

22. hillary and warren democratic ticket will sweep conservatives out of control

Elizabeth will be Hillary's VP if any one in who camp as a shred of intelligence


first all female ticket that embraces the entire democratic, progress and liberal spectrum!!

you heard it here first

[djean111]

24. What a waste of Warren. As if Hillary would allow Warren to take on Wall Street.

Oh, and as a female - I would never vote for anybody just because they are female. Not even on my top twenty reasons.

[TerrapinFlyer]

26. Wouldn't it be funny if Hillary chooses Warren are her VP

how many DU'ers with "over 50,000" posts will have their heads explode?

[djean111]

27. "heads explode", "hair on fire", etc. - Hillary supporters sure are hyperbolic and a bit violent.

I don't have anywhere near that many posts, but I would probably just drop the fuck out of presidential politics. VP would be a waste of Warren, would be a callous act designed to try and reel in Progressives and liberals, and any progressive or liberal who thinks Hillary would let Warren do anything but attend funerals and state dinners is foolish.

[TerrapinFlyer]

28. ...yeah.. because a VP never ever gets to be President.. right?

state dinners? Some people want to stay uninformed.

[djean111]

29. Not many - four sitting were elected, the others were just in place when the prez died or

left office prematurely. Nixon was an anomaly, was elected years after being VP.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080902205640AAnhEBB

You really think Hillary would let Warren rein in the banks and Wall Street? Or curb corporate control and excess? Bwahahahaha!

[Art_from_Ark]

57. The vice presidency is where political careers go to die

At least, on the Democratic side. There has never been a Democratic vice president who has made it to the White House without having succeeded a president who died in office*.

*Of course, Al Gore would have been the first, but the election was stolen from him.

[ClarkforPresProgress]

30. The "Unknown, Fictitious" Candidate: Clark

[link:http://www.brittanyclark.com|

[link:http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?candidateCommitteeId=P60005154&tabIndex=3|



Greetings!

In response to your post, I am presuming I am the "unknown, fictitious" candidate. If not, I apologize for any misconceptions.

Strategy is crucial to winning an election. As a presidential candidate, every action, decision, and marketing scheme, is intentional and well-planned. Trust me, this has been extremely difficult with zero funding, another intentional decision.

My goal is not to "win" the presidency, as I believe I contribute just as much today as I would in Office. My goal is to set America with the framework needed to maintain diplomacy and democracy for the future generation: to create a formula, invented by the most brilliant concerned citizens, political scientists, and activists through a progressive scheme.

The problems of the past: corruption in elections. The resolution: no campaign financing. None. This way, the average citizen has the same chance as the rich to pursue a political office.

The FEC requires the reporting of a PAC, as well as the ordination of official candidate status, when expenditures or donations that exceed $2,500 are allotted. This occurred for my PAC, Clark for Presidential Progression, a long time ago, as funding and donations were offered. I did not accept one dollar. However, I did report my PAC to FEC.

For this system to work, I need your support. I am not asking for your donation. I am asking for your support as an intended voter for the "underdog."

A year back, I reported a specific petition to a specific media outlet in regards to human trafficking. The petition was in regards to the Constitutional Amendment, Amendment XIII, Section 1, that currently reads: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Through my research in graduate school, I learned of this amendment. The petition, included the signatures of individuals who support a constitutional amendment to this amendment, that prohibits slavery in any form. Amendment XIII Section 1 was implemented into law under the presidency of Mr. Obama. Thus, the petition, was sent to a Congress Leader, to be delivered to the President.

The petition was tampered with. The signatures, of some, I know for a fact, were previously on the petition, were not located on the file, nor was the accurate number of petitions displayed on the MoveOn website, where the petition originated. Still, I sent the signatures currently present, and delivered the petition.

After this, I personally experienced, first-hand, the Amendment XIII clause, as I was forced into involuntary servitude. This punishment of slavery was a result of an automobile "collision," which was, in reality, hit-and-run. I was charged and sentenced, however.

I, more than anyone, understands the perils that occurred in our government. This, I believe, qualifies my candidacy to Office. I will never allow my country nor its citizens to be victims of enslavement, propaganda, corruption, nor fear. As a result of the obstacles, persecution, and enslavement I experienced as a result of my advocacy efforts, the greatest achievement of my life resulted. This achievement cannot be written nor described as it was a chain reaction of multiple voices, coming together, for one common cause: democracy. Without democracy, I surely would have been still in prison. Today, I am awaiting for the time appropriate to announce my candidacy. With your support, please demand this announcement to be viral in all media outlets.

Thank you and God Bless.

[uppityperson]

32. Welcome to DU. I've a couple questions for you

Would you tell us more about you, what positions you support, etc?

What do you mean about a hit and run, being charged and sentenced? Did you hit someone and get charged or do you mean someone hit you and you went to jail for some reason?

Finally, have you a website about you?

Thanks and welcome.

[boston bean]

34. seems it's for real..

http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do

[NYC_SKP]

36. Welcome to DU, ClarkforPresProgress!!!

Hi Brittany!

[Major Hogwash]

35. Was there something in the Boston Globe today about her?

Or what?

[freshwest]

40. Yes, an article calling for a primary. I want that, but not because HRC is the Anti-Christ. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

56. LoL, the anti-christ just announced today at Liberty Baptist College!

He even read some more from Dr. Seuss!!

I'm running for President, yes I am
But, I don't like green eggs and ham
I'm sick of them, at least I am
So, I'll outlaw those green eggs and ham

Green eggs and ham don't agree with me
That's really quite plain for all to see
So green eggs and ham will never be free
If everyone just votes for lil' ol' me

Someone just broke out of the Cuckoo's Nest!!!!!

[NCTraveler]

42. Thank you and excellent post.

The consideration goes out to both sides of the debate with respect to the issue you are addressing. Seems there are three basic factions with what you are writing about. Those already fighting the primary and for Hillary, those fighting the primary and against Hillary, then the group you are putting yourself in with this op. Yours is the only fully sensible position. The others are based in overall emotion.