Iconic singer Joni Mitchell was diagnosed with Morgellons. ... she's awake and in good spirts

[Ichingcarpenter]

Folk-music icon Joni Mitchell is in intensive care at a Los Angeles hospital after being found unconscious in her home Tuesday night, according to website and Twitter account.

"Joni is currently in intensive care in an LA area hospital but is awake and in good spirits," her official Twitter account posted around 1 a.m. Wednesday.

A statement on her website said: "Light a candle and sing a song, let's all send good wishes her way."

It remains unclear what prompted the medical emergency.





She was diagnosed several years ago with Morgellons disease, a rare condition that causes people to experience a crawling and biting sensation to the skin.

“Fibers in a variety of colors protrude out of my skin like mushrooms after a rainstorm,” Mitchell told New York magazine in February. “They cannot be forensically identified as animal, vegetable, or mineral.”



http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/joni-mitchell-found-unconscious-rushed-hosp-report-article-1.2169023?cid=bitly&utm_content=buffer49882&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw




Morgellons


http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/morgellons-disease-what-is-it

[SidDithers]

1. If this is an April Fool's Day prank, it's in very, very poor taste...

Morgellon's ain't real.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Morgellons_disease

http://www.cdc.gov/unexplaineddermopathy/

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0029908

Sid

[cali]

2. I don't know. Other sources have it more up in the air.

I have a condition that is often- though not in my case- deemed to be at least in part, psychological. In my case, the underlying factors are so severe that no doc has suggest that. And some of the symptoms are the same; the sensation of being stung or bitten, heightened sensitivity of skin.

[FourScore]

117. Morgellons has been found to be a spirochetal infection

This is the leading website on it and has the most up-to-date research.

http://www.thecehf.org/morgellons-disease-research.html

[Orrex]

3. My first thought as well. Thanks. (nt)

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Mayo clinic vs sid?

I go with Mayo clinic

[SidDithers]

6. Peer reviewed PLOS-One research conducted by the CDC, or a web site?...

I'll go with the peer-review.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0029908

Sid

[Orrex]

7. Sid vs NY Daily News? I'll go with Sid.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Joni said she had it in another paper so complain to Joni

Mayo Clinic is not just a web site It spends over $500 million a year on research.

It is widely regarded as one of the world's premier medical practices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_Clinic

[Orrex]

16. No kidding? Well, let's see what the Mayo Clinic says about Morgellons:

A study of 108 persons identified with delusional skin infestation, including persons with Morgellons, examined between 2001 and 2007 at the Mayo Clinic was published in Archives of Dermatology on May 16, 2011. The study did not find evidence of skin infestation despite examination of specimens provided by the patients and study of skin biopsies of study participants. The authors concluded the study results were consistent with the participants' original diagnosis of delusional infestation. They reported that about two thirds of the skin biopsies showed dermatitis, and stated that the skin condition and resultant distress might play a role in the patients' delusional or "false belief their skin is infested by pathogens".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons#Mayo_Clinic_study

Joni said she had it in another paper so complain to Joni

Lots of people think that they have Morgellons. A number of people on DU have claimed it, in fact. It's a real condition in the way that other mental illness is certainly real, but there's no evidence that Morgellons is an infestation of mysterious magical fibers as Ms. Mitchell (and others) believe it to be:

Mitchell said the illness is incurable, adding that “fibers in a variety of colors protrude out of my skin like mushrooms after a rainstorm … They cannot be forensically identified as animal, vegetable or mineral.”

[m-lekktor]

63. umm, the NY Daily News is liberal.

I will go with the NY Daily News.

[Orrex]

83. It's still a psycholgical condition, not an infection

I fault the NYDN or failing to state this plainly. Since Sid has stated it plainly, I'll go with Sid.

[markpkessinger]

86. Regardless of whether the condition is an infection or a psychological condition . . .

. . . those who have it still suffer from it. A psychological condition is just as "real" as any other, and can cause as much real, physical pain as a physical illness.

[Orrex]

87. No one has disputed that point

In fact, I've made more or less the exact same observation.

[markpkessinger]

92. I think a post implying that Michell's condition, whatever it may be, is an April Fool's joke . . .

. . . qualifies as disputing this point. (And yes, I realize you didn't make that point, but that post is the context of this subthread.)

[Orrex]

97. Well, I'll own up to it, since it was my first impression as well.

However, the observation was made early in the thread, based on the headline, prior to reading the article, and swiftly retracted.

It's not as though a whole arc of the discussion hinged on the perception that it was a joke. That was a mistake, but the overall arc of the discussion has been to acknowledge that the condition is almost certainly real but almost certainly not an infection.

[SidDithers]

10. Or how about the American Society for Microbiology - Clinical Microbiology Reviews?...

http://cmr.asm.org/content/22/4/690.long

Summary: This papers aims at familiarizing psychiatric and nonpsychiatric readers with delusional infestation (DI), also known as delusional parasitosis. It is characterized by the fixed belief of being infested with pathogens against all medical evidence. DI is no single disorder but can occur as a delusional disorder of the somatic type (primary DI) or secondary to numerous other conditions. A set of minimal diagnostic criteria and a classification are provided. Patients with DI pose a truly interdisciplinary problem to the medical system. They avoid psychiatrists and consult dermatologists, microbiologists, or general practitioners but often lose faith in professional medicine. Epidemiology and history suggest that the imaginary pathogens change constantly, while the delusional theme “infestation” is stable and ubiquitous. Patients with self-diagnosed “Morgellons disease” can be seen as a variation of this delusional theme. For clinicians, clinical pathways for efficient diagnostics and etiology-specific treatment are provided. Specialized outpatient clinics in dermatology with a liaison psychiatrist are theoretically best placed to provide care. The most intricate problem is to engage patients in psychiatric therapy. In primary DI, antipsychotics are the treatment of choice, according to limited but sufficient evidence. Pimozide is no longer the treatment of choice for reasons of drug safety. Future research should focus on pathophysiology and the neural basis of DI, as well as on conclusive clinical trials, which are widely lacking. Innovative approaches will be needed, since otherwise patients are unlikely to adhere to any study protocol

Sid

[pscot]

88. That should pay well

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. Morgellons is not a delusional disorder.

Mayo clinic

http://www.mayoclinic.org/morgellons-disease/art-20044996

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. "Morgellons is a controversial condition and is not recognised by mainstream medical authorities."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32142332

snip-

Sufferers say it is characterised by crawling and stinging sensations under the skin but many in the medical community believe it is a psychiatric disorder.

-snip

[morningfog]

12. What I don't understand is the "fibers" which have been

identified as cotton. If there are actually physical fibers, where do the come from?

[arcane1]

99. You can't genetically modify something that doesn't have genes

[Logical]

113. Maybe it is....from your link....

Some health professionals believe that Morgellons disease is a specific condition that needs to be confirmed by research.

Some health professionals believe that signs and symptoms of Morgellons disease are caused by another condition, often mental illness.

Other health professionals don't acknowledge Morgellons disease or are reserving judgment until more is known about the condition.

[FourScore]

114. The most recent research shows Morgellons is a coinfection of lyme disease.

This website has tons of info:

http://www.thecehf.org/morgellons-disease-research.html

[morningfog]

9. She really was found unconscious and taken to hospital.

At least it appears so. The story broke last night before April fools.

[SidDithers]

13. Yeah, I saw that. Hope she's OK...

I'm a fan. Big Yellow Taxi was one of the first songs my daughter learned on guitar.

It's the implied notion that the fake "disease" Morgellon's had something to do with her collapse (fainting? I don't know the right way to describe what happened) that I have issue with.

The mysterious fibers associated with Morgellon's turn out to be dyed cotton or polyester - consistent with fibers from clothes or bedding or blankets etc.

The skin lesions associated with Morgellon's turn out to be consistent with sun damage and excessive scratching.

Morgellon's is delusional parasitosis, or delusion infestation, to everyone except those suffering from the delusion.

Sid

[morningfog]

18. I had never heard of the condition, but it

clearly is psychological. I was, and am still, trying to understand how the fibers were relevant in any if these cases or episodes. Was it just that some where found where the patient had scratched themselves? Where the fibers placed there? What was the extent of fiber coverage?

[G_j]

31. whatever

In the mean time, I'm hoping she pulls through whatever real health problem/s she is having.

[SidDithers]

33. whatever...

and i agree. I hope that she gets help for her real health problems.

Sid

[Romeo.lima333]

15. and there are scientists who say there's no environmental damage from fracking

[Orrex]

17. True, but irrelevant here.

Are you suggesting that there's a link between fracking and Morgellons? Yeah, I've heard that one before.

[Romeo.lima333]

44. nope that's not my suggestion

[brooklynite]

26. Story ran yesterday...

[SidDithers]

27. I'm not disputing Joni Mitchell collapsed, and was taken to hospital...

I'm disputing the implied connection to the fiction known as Morgellon's.

Sid

[brooklynite]

30. From the linked FEBRUARY NY Magazine interview...

Now 71, Mitchell has been ill for eight years, which she describes as a “survival blur.” In fact, she’s been sick throughout her whole life — polio, scarlet fever, dengue, abscessed ovaries — and now suffers from the skin disorder Morgellons, a “weird, incurable disease that seems like it’s from outer space,” which many doctors find mysterious, and which Mitchell has described this way: “Fibers in a variety of colors protrude out of my skin like mushrooms after a rainstorm. They cannot be forensically identified as animal, vegetable, or mineral.”

http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/02/joni-mitchell-fashion-muse.html?mid=nymag_press

I'm not arguing about the disputed nature of the affliction: just that this isn't something they whipped for APril Fool's Day.

[cwydro]

45. "Abscessed ovaries!"

What in hell is that?

[Hekate]

52. Something women get in their lady-parts, dear. Christ on a trailer hitch.

I had a post-partum infection after my first baby and it was memorably painful. It ran up the birth canal, up my Fallopian tube, and into my left ovary. The doctor put me on 2,000 mg/day of penicillin to kick it.

I'd hate to think what a full blown abcess would involve, though sterility comes to mind.

[cwydro]

64. Well, I'm a woman, and I'm very glad

I never had this particular malady!

Christ on a trailer hitch is right!

[bigtree]

14. 71 years old

...I absolutely love this woman. Her music touches my very soul. I'm shocked and a bit saddened to hear of this and hope she makes a full recovery from whatever rendered her 'unconscious.' Very frightening and a jarring report, I'm sure, for those of us who love and admire her. '

[Beaverhausen]

19. She has suffered from Morgellons for years

Probably not what put her in the hospital.

I fear her many years of smoking may have done it.

I'm a huge fan and hope she stays with us a long time.

[Dont call me Shirley]

20. Oh Joni, you really need a psychiatrist, you're not really sick...

Joni, I send you good vibes and I stand with you

[SidDithers]

21. She's sick, and she needs a psychiatrist...nt

Sid

[Beaverhausen]

22. Ok we heard you the first time

We get it

If you have nothing else to add please go away.

Thank you

[SidDithers]

23. Dude, you implied that I said Joni's collapse was all in her head...

Damn right I'm going to reply to you.

And I ain't fucking going anywhere.

Sid

[Beaverhausen]

32. I didn't imply anything

if you look at my other post in this thread, I agree that the Morgellon's (real or imagined) is likely not what sent her to the hospital.

She is a lifelong heavy smoker- that is probably what is going on. I fear that it is finally catching up with her.

But we don't know at this point and I think it's just nasty for you to keep harping on this.

and I'm not a dude.

[Dont call me Shirley]

24. Whatever! Doctors have been telling women this for millennia, to demean and degrade women.

When I first got sick with a terrible and painful undiagnosed case of pericarditis from undiagnosed Systemic Lupus, that's all I heard from doctors, "you need a psychiatrist because you have hypochondria" or this little gem "you just want heavy narcotics". This went on for 17 years. It was a nightmare for me. Finally, I got the correct PHYSICAL, not a mental, diagnosis. At that point I almost died from Lupus.

Many doctors are just too incompetent in their diagnostic abilities to accurately diagnose. Then their giant god-egos get bruised because they are too mentally lazy to figure it out.

Medical diagnostic companies are too consumed with creating profit rather than creating new tests which can actually diagnose diseases.

Obviously you have never been seriously ill from a chronic disease, or you would understand.

[SidDithers]

25. The difference being, pericarditis and Lupus are real diseases...

with real biologic causes.

Morgellon's isn't. It's Delusional Infestation, or Delusional Parisitosis.

Which is treated through psychiatry.


Sid

[Dont call me Shirley]

34. And global climate change is not caused by man

Oh wait, forgot the sarcasm thingy

Let's see, Epstein Barr was not a "real" disease, nor fibromyalgia, nor chronic fatigue, nor limes disease. But now we see drug ads on the tv for them. And now they are. Real diseases. How can that be?

Oh I forgot about aids, that wasn't a real disease either.

[Orrex]

35. Several things going on here

1. The fact that the medical establishment has fucked women over for centuries does not mean that every unsubstantiated claim must be treated as proven fact. Men have also self-diagnosed with Morgellons, but it's no more real an infection for them than it is for Ms. Mitchell.

2. The fact that a disease (or its cause) is not immediately recognized does not mean that every self-diagnosis must be treated as proven fact. If, for a given reported malady, the cause overwhelmingly appears to be psychological, then that's how it goes. It doesn't mean that the malady is imaginary or false; it means that it's a psychological disorder and should be treated differently from a parasitic investation. This is true whether the patient is female or male.

3. Self-diagnosis of chronic, subjective conditions with nebulous epidemiology is notoriously problematic, and this is true whether the sufferer is male or female. If a cause can't be readily identified, then it's risky to pursue a course of treatment based solely on the symptoms. That's not to say that the condition isn't real, only that treating the symptoms may or may not address the underlying condition. Further, most chronic conditions rise and fall in intensity over time anyway. The "alternative" "medicine" industry preys upon this fact, claiming success for worthless treatments when the condition is simply abating as part of the normal up-and-down cycle.

4. Many claims made by Dr. Weil and Dr. Oz about Epstein–Barr, fibromyalgia, and chronic fatigue (etc.) must be treated with caution. Weil and Oz are well known to be handsomely subsizided by the "alternative" "medicine" industry, so their endorsements are suspect in the absence of independent corroborating evidence. If you're getting info from their shows, books or tv appearances, then you should probably seek another source.

In short, I haven't seen anyone here claim that Ms. Mitchell is not suffering from a disorder. Rather, most are reluctant to conclude that her assessment is correct when it contradicts medical evidence. You do her no favors by advocating for her mistaken self-diagnosis.

[Dont call me Shirley]

36. "fucked women"?! Really?! You had to go there!?

When the medical industrial complex comes up with a money making treatment for morgollons as a physical disease, then you will see it being diagnosed as a real physical disease.

The sores don't just magically appear from your mind onto your skin, might as well join a fundie church cult if you believe that mythology.

At this time, there is also NO "REAL" evidence to disprove its existence, just as in aids, fibro, chronic fatigue, etc.

[SidDithers]

39. Wow...

What a steaming pile of alt-med nonsense.

Maybe the sores of Morgellon's sufferers are created by a misalignment of their chakras. Hopefully a treatment with crystals and a course of 30C homeopathic Nux Vomica will take care of it.

What better way to treat a fictional disease than with fictional remedies?

After all, as the purveyors of medical woo like to say, like cures like.

Sid

[Dont call me Shirley]

40. That's your answer to you fucked women comment?

[SidDithers]

42. No, that's my answer to your "medical industrial complex" comment...

and your 'YOU CAN'T PROVE IT DOESN'T EXIST ARGLE-BARGLE11!1!' comment.

Too bad you weren't around for the moon bombing threads. You would have fit right in.

Sid

[Dont call me Shirley]

46. What is your answer to your "fucked women" comment?

It's thinly veiled misogyny. That's what that comment is.

[SidDithers]

47. First. It wasn't my comment...

try actually reading who is responding to your posts.

I'm sure Orrex can speak for himself, and I see he already has. Whether you choose to read his response is completely up to you.

I do have to ask why you truncated his comment. He didn't say "fucked women", he said "fucked women over". He was acknowledging that women have been treated unfairly by the medical community.

He was fucking agreeing with you - and you jumped his shit.

You might want to apologize to him.

Sid

[Dont call me Shirley]

48. Oh my side, sidorrex. It's still thinly veiled misogyny, any which way you wrap it.

[yuiyoshida]

70. You really enjoyed Asahina's

Moon Bombing Thread? I will have to let her know, she will be pleased.

[Orrex]

41. "Fucked women over for centuries," yes. How would you describe it?

When the medical industrial complex comes up with a money making treatment for morgollons as a physical disease, then you will see it being diagnosed as a real physical disease.

That's proseltyzing, and it sure as hell doesn't help make your case. If Morgellons has a physical cause, then let someone demonstrate it.

The sores don't just magically appear from your mind onto your skin, might as well join a fundie church cult if you believe that mythology.

That's a meaningless insult. Stigmata likewise "mysteriously" appear on the skin of those who claim to suffer from them; should we assume that these are a real physical (rather than psychological) condition?

At this time, there is also NO "REAL" evidence to disprove its existence, just as in aids, fibro, chronic fatigue, etc.

Asking me to prove a negative, eh? That's old hat. Demonstrate that the condition has a physical cause and it will be treated as such. It's not my responsibility to prove that something doesn't exist; the burden of proof is on the claimant.

[Dont call me Shirley]

43. Sidorrex...

No where else's in your post did you use a curse word except for immediately preceding the word women.

Stating a fact about the MedIC is not proselytizing. It is stating reality as it is.

Stigmata, really? Mythical thinking again...stigmata.

If the MedIC corporations would not skew their research results and keep the true results hidden from the public, which we all know this is the way they operate, then many truths would be evident.

[Orrex]

53. Do you know what it means to fuck someone over? Have you never heard that phrase?

It means to treat that person (or persons) unfairly in the extreme, or otherwise to do them an extraordinary disservice.

In other words, I was acknowledging outright that women have gotten extremely poor treatment from the medical establishment for many years. It was an unambiguous statement in support of women, but you decided to misrepresent it as some sort of misogynist hate-speech. Puh-leeze.

Stigmata, really? Mythical thinking again...stigmata.

No shit--that's why I referred to it, because it's the same kind of foolish magical thinking that declares Morgellons a real infectious condition.

If the MedIC corporations would not skew their research results and keep the true results hidden from the public, which we all know this is the way they operate, then many truths would be evident.

More proselytizing. Give specifics, and identify how they apply to Ms. Mitchell's case. Otherwise you're simply spouting nonsense.

[Dont call me Shirley]

58. The only place you used a curse word was in front of the word women. Thinly veiled misogyny.

[My Good Babushka]

65. There are no bad words

only bad actors.

Like people who try to pluck out two words from a debate and perform amateurish Freudian psychoanalysis on them.

[Orrex]

84. That's a fucked up interpretation

And your posts are thinly veiled trolling. Surely no one can actually think in the bizarro way that you're pretending.

Oh, wait. I just figured it out: you're attempting some kind of ill-planned April Fool's Day prank! Well played! You really seemed like an unhiged PC zealot there for a while!

[Dont call me Shirley]

100. No trolling.

But at least I'm not a Monsanto troll

[Orrex]

101. Who's a Monsanto troll?

Keep on trolling, April.

[Dont call me Shirley]

102. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7351138

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/company.do#!/ORX

http://www.orrex.com/

http://www.orrexresources.com/IRM/content/investor_investorfaqs.html

http://www.orrexmedical.com/orrex-advantage.html

[Orrex]

103. Whatever, April

[FrodosPet]

106. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Wed Apr 1, 2015, 08:55 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sidorrex...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6446481

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Besides acting ridiculous in this thread, name calling (lame attempt at saying Sid and Orrex are the same person) is over the top rude and inappropriate.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 1, 2015, 09:13 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I just don't see any reason for this alert. Leave the post alone.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Damn it is so slow at work. I want to be making money, not judging harmless posts.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[libodem]

112. It was "fucked over "

Not fucked women as I read it.

[Dont call me Shirley]

123. Can't see any more posts...

[My Good Babushka]

61. I was going to say that we ate grandma's cake

but someone here might think we ate grandma.

I think "fucking over" is a pretty common colloquialism, at this point.

[Dont call me Shirley]

66. The only place a curse word was used was in front of the word women. That stands out like a

throbbing thumb. Thinly veiled mysogeny, with a plausible deniability outlet.

[My Good Babushka]

71. You said throbbing, and put it in front of a phallic object.

I know what you are thinking of.

[Dont call me Shirley]

75. Where point to me where, babs.

[My Good Babushka]

76. Just pointing out

One amateurish attempt at Freudian psychoanalysis on the basis of two words
deserves another.

[Dont call me Shirley]

78. I'm not a Freudian psychoanalyst or student. It was a thinly veiled misogenist attack, period.

Very plain, very easy to see. Sorry you can't see it.

[My Good Babushka]

81. You are the only one who seems to think so.

I've been married to Orrex for fifteen years, and I take it very personally that you are calling him a misogynist. And that you based that on two words that you chose to pluck out of an argument, divorcing them from their context as a common colloquialism. I think that's pretty shitty, actually.

[Dont call me Shirley]

90. I think it's pretty crappy that this all started from Sid attacking me simply for saying that I

stand with Joni. Who doesn't stand with Joni. She's lived her life singing about truth. And then orrex had jump on the attack bandwagon, now you. That what's pretty crappy.

[WhiteTara]

94. Shirley, "fucking" is used as a verb not

a preposition. Diagram the sentence and you can see that this might be a case of preposition/verb error.

[My Good Babushka]

62. Sores CAN magically appear from your mind onto your skin

it's called psychosomatic dermatitis.

[Dont call me Shirley]

68. That's as believable as a fundamentalist Christian's belief that when Jesus comes to get them he

will magically disappear them to heaven.

[My Good Babushka]

74. The brain is part of the body, too.

People have anxiety attacks and depression, and just because it originates in their mind doesn't mean their hearts aren't pounding, or they don't have tunnel vision, with adrenaline coursing through their body, or they don't ache all over. Psychosomatic conditions are real.

[Dont call me Shirley]

77. The mind is a body part yes. But the intonation of sids "mental"argument is that the illness is a

figment of imagination, make-believe, not real, pretend, fake illness.

Of course we can use our minds to raise our own bp, body temp, cause ourselves to have an asthma attack consciously. But not to cause physical sores on our body, that's biological - viral, bacterial, fungal, etc.

[My Good Babushka]

79. You absolutely can have psychosomatic rashes or sores

It is absolutely still a real illness if it's psychosomatically originated.

[Dont call me Shirley]

80. Absolute provable undeniable proof, please.

[My Good Babushka]

82. I'm not your personal fucking Google

Yeah, I said a curse word.

[Dont call me Shirley]

89. The majority of research is behind a paywall

[Thor_MN]

115. OOOhhhh, you said curse word Google!!

Thinly veiled luddism!!! Thinly veiled LUDDISM!!!!

The ONLY place you used a curse word was in front of GOOGLE!!!1!!!!!1!

[HappyMe]

69. The mind/brain is a very powerful thing.

Sometimes people don't realize just how powerful it can be.

[Dont call me Shirley]

73. Agreed, but a serious scientist is not going to look at a sore on a persons body and immediately

think "oh, that sore must be a mental problem". No. They say let's investigate a physical causation of this sore, like is it viral or bacterial.

[mike_c]

105. or the result of constant self injury....

Delusional infestation sufferers scratch and pick at themselves a lot. They often supply dermatologists with many examples of whatever they think is infesting them, that upon examination turn out to be scabs from constant self injury.

[Dont call me Shirley]

107. Delusional Parasitits sounds like a fancy way of calling a disease sufferer crazy.

[mike_c]

108. their mental illness is their disease....

No, it isn't "calling a disease sufferer crazy." It's noting that mental illness IS the disease they suffer from. You can't offer them effective treatment if you don't identify their real disorder.

[Dont call me Shirley]

109. Y'all are investing a lot of time and energy in trying to convince people that Joni Mitchell is

crazy.

[Orrex]

110. Your use of the term "crazy" in this context is offensive.

No one is saying that Ms. Mitchell is crazy. Identifying a delusion is absolutely not "trying to convince people that Joni Mitchell is crazy."

Suffering delusions can be a symptom of mental illness. Mental illness is illness. Having a mental illness does not make one "crazy."

Your repeated use of the term "crazy," even though you're dishonestly attributing it to others, is a direct insult to people living with mental illness, to their friends and to their families.


That's ugly and fucked up. Perhaps you should reconsider your deliberately insulting language.

[stage left]

91. Mental illness is real illness.

With real biologic causes.

[markpkessinger]

93. Indeed . . .

. . . and in some cases, with real physical manifestations as well.

[mike_c]

104. have you ever worked with Morgellon's suffers?

I have. I'm an entomologist at a cal state university so I've been consulted by patients and by their doctors, including dermatologists. I have examined many zip-lock bags of colored fibers from clothing-- dryer lint, in essence-- and that other favorite of delusional parasitosis sufferers, pieces of scotch tape folded around supposed "examples" of the "bugs" infesting them, which ALWAYS turn out to be more dryer lint, completely inanimate objects like sand grains, or scabs-- lots and lots of scabs and other dried body fluids-- from persistent self injury.

Frankly, many of those patients expressed exactly the sort of "medical establishment conspiracy to silence them" that you allude to. None of them ever ever ever had anything really infesting them. Several have told me fantastic tales about invisible creatures inhabiting their work places or homes, in addition to their delusion infestations. Like the report that Sid cites, many have also expressed an a priori belief that their overall health is poor, even when there was no real evidence of that that I was aware of-- they simply seem predisposed to look for health problems. I'm in northern California, so there is a good possibility that some of the patients in the study Sid cites were among the ones I've consulted with, since they tend to doctor shop for a sympathetic ear.

Yes, they do indeed have a real condition. It's a mental disorder, a persistent delusion. They do not have the condition that they believe they have. Their delusion is so persistent that I can show them scabs under a microscope, show them that they're just irregular lumps of dried body fluid, and they'll point to random bumps or dips and insist that they're legs or mouth parts or evidence of segmentation. "See? That's it's head, that bit right there! See it? Don't you see it?"

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. First TV appearance Manitoba TV 1965.. YouTube

She was known as Joni Anderson of Saskatoon

Get well soon Joni your songs and music have given me much pleasure in my life.




Also a CBC news story about her


http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/joni-mitchell-legendary-canadian-singer-and-songwriter-hospitalized-1.3017332

[Hekate]

111. Joni is just exquisite in that. I've never seen it before.

Get well soon, Joni.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

29. Best wishes for you, Joni Mitchell

[Arkana]

37. Uh...Morgellons isn't a real disease.

[FourScore]

118. The latest research shows it is a spirochetal infection

Link to the leading website:

http://www.thecehf.org/morgellons-disease-research.html

[Hekate]

49. I hope she gets the care she needs in a nonjudgmental compassionate atmosphere, unlike DU...

And may she find peace and serenity waiting for her when she gets back home. Joni Mitchell is a musical treasure, and deserves that much.

Rather than people on a discussion board pretending to be doctors Try compassion for her obvious illness and pain. She has had a lifetime of serious, scientifically verifiable, named illnesses -- yet has been a productive singer-songwriter throughout her life as well.

Instead of labeling her ongoing crisis as purely psychosomatic, ask yourselves how much her system may have been weakened by previous illnesses, catching up to her as she has aged. I don't have to "believe in Morgollens" to understand that she is ill and that doctors don't know why.

Incidentally, any number of us on DU suffer from illnesses once deemed psychosomatic, such as fibromyalgia. Since some of those chronic conditions mostly strike women, it's a surprisingly easy diagnosis for the medical community to make and keep insisting on for decades if not centuries -- until science finally validates what the sufferers have experienced.

[crazylikafox]

51. + 1

[Beaverhausen]

55. Very well said

[bahrbearian]

59. +2,

[whatchamacallit]

50. I'm just annoyed to run across a thread where I agree with Sid

[tishaLA]

67. it does cause a frightful case of cognitive dissonance

and makes me think I might need to see my psychiatrist

but I already have an appointment for Monday

[Avalux]

54. Morgellons is not a physical disease.

Joni needs psychiatric care and I hope she gets it.

[HappyMe]

56. I agree.

After I heard about this, I looked into it. I hope she does get some psychiatric care, but you can't force it on people.

[Avalux]

57. Yes that's true.

I wonder why she was unconscious and admitted to intensive care....lots of missing pieces in that story.

[HappyMe]

60. I watched the news at noon,

and they did not have any more details. They may be doing tests to find out what caused her to pass out.

[FourScore]

120. It is a spirochetal infection. Any information prior to 2010 is unreliable.

The top researcher of lyme disease, Dr. Eva Sapi, is now doing remarkable research with morgellons.

More here:

http://www.thecehf.org/morgellons-disease-research.html

[FourScore]

119. The latest research

shows it is a spirochetal infection.

http://www.thecehf.org/morgellons-disease-research.html

More information can be found at lyme disease websites.

[Avalux]

121. Thank you for this.

As a researcher, I'm always willing to admit I'm wrong if the evidence proves otherwise. I'll read through the literature on the site.

[FourScore]

122. Your most welcome. As a researcher, you might also be interested in the work done by

Dr Eva Sapi at the University of New Haven. Dr. Sapi is a leading lyme disease researcher specializing in biofilms. She has also been very active in identifying the infectious organisms in Morgellons.

Her work can be seen at the link I provided, or you can google her. She's a fascinating woman.

[mike_c]

72. FFS....

In my profession, we refer to Morgellon's "disease" as delusional parasitosis.

[Orrex]

85. Obviously you're part of the Medical Industrial Complex

And that probably makes you a misogynist, if I'm reading the thread correctly.

[beam me up scottie]

95. Shut up, pig.

[FourScore]

116. There is increasing evidence that morgellons is a spirochetal infection

Please allow me to refer you to this website:

http://www.thecehf.org/morgellons-disease-research.html

This article: Exploring the association between Morgellons disease and Lyme disease: identification of Borrelia burgdorferi in Morgellons disease patients

and this: Morgellons Study Cited by Faculty of 1000 Study of Emerging Skin Disease Among Top 2% Published

might be of interest to you.

Also, leading lyme researcher, Dr. Eva Sapi, has done some remarkable research into morgellons and it's association with lyme.

Lyme websites are now including information and help for people suffering from morgellons.

If you get patients in the future, you might want to test them for lyme.

[mike_c]

124. thank you....

I'll take a look. I skimmed the abstracts and figures of the first couple of papers and they seem to have a healthy dose of confirmation bias, but I'll read them more closely when I get a chance. Many of the micrographs are depressingly familiar-- dried crusty scabs with some clothing fibers embedded, the sorts of images in which Morgellon's sufferers often imagine parasite morphology and such.

At least the first couple of papers acknowledge that mainstream clinicians and scientists dispute any somatic origin for Morgellons, but they don't really make any case for spirochete causation other than association, i.e. some of the folks presenting with Morgellons also tested positive for Borrelia. Remember too, that other clinical studies have found strong association between Morgellons incidence and patients' general predisposition to doubt their health and a strong conviction that they are "sick." Borrelia infection would likely push such patients further into their delusions if they do suffer from delusional parasitosis as well.

A Morgellon's patient once told me that she was deliberately infected (or perhaps allowed to be infected) by her employer-- a company that had something to do with cell phone equipment-- which either put big, invisible blob-like creatures in cell phone tower machine spaces or simply permitted them to remain there. She had a very specific tale. She could describe the invisible creatures in detail-- they usually kept to the ceiling corners, if I recall, and she sometimes saw evidence of them in her home, as well. With patients like that, it's really hard to know where the somatic malady ends and the psychosomatic one begins. Like the other Morgellans patients I've consulted, she showed me bags and bags of fibers and many pieces of crusty, dried scabs and such. She brought me dirt and other sweepings from her house, which I examined. I did find evidence of home flea infestation in her case-- I suspect her pets suffered as much as she did. But she clearly suffered from delusions. Not only the invisible creatures, but she would point to random flotsom in her samples and insist that they were moving, or that she could see their morphology.

[FourScore]

125. My hypothesis on this

is that there are probably people with delusions who are now claiming to have Morgellons. Then, there are people who have tested positive for Borrelia and are truly suffering from something real.

Joni Mitchell has been an important spokesperson for people suffering from Morgellons, and it pains me to see so many people claim she needs psychiatric help. I think she has been very brave.

Anyway, thanks for reading the literature!

[AtomicKitten]

96. Wishing Joni a speedy recovery.

She's the awesome in my book, giving me my absolute favorite album of all time that has held up over the decades.

[hedgehog]

126. My fool-proof, certain test as to whether or not a person has an autoimmune disorder and/or

emerging chronic disease:

The doctor(s) can't match the symptoms or tests to anything they learned in medical school

therefore:

it's all in the patient's head.