IMF admits: we failed to realise the damage austerity would do to Greece

[Ichingcarpenter]

The International Monetary Fund admitted it had failed to realise the damage austerity would do to Greece as the Washington-based organisation catalogued mistakes made during the bailout of the stricken eurozone country.

In an assessment of the rescue conducted jointly with the European Central Bank (ECB) and the European commission, the IMF said it had been forced to override its normal rules for providing financial assistance in order to put money into Greece.

Fund officials had severe doubts about whether Greece's debt would be sustainable even after the first bailout was provided in May 2010 and only agreed to the plan because of fears of contagion.

While it succeeded in keeping Greece in the eurozone, the report admitted the bailout included notable failures.

"Market confidence was not restored, the banking system lost 30% of its deposits and the economy encountered a much deeper than expected recession with exceptionally high unemployment."

In Athens, officials reacted with barely disguised glee to the report, saying it confirmed that the price exacted for the €110bn (£93bn) emergency package was too high for a country beset by massive debts, tax evasion and a large black economy."



http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jun/05/imf-underestimated-damage-austerity-would-do-to-greece?CMP=share_btn_tw



as John Perkins, the author of the best-selling book Confessions of An Economic Hitman, explains:

One of my jobs as an economic hit man was to identify countries that had resources like oil and arrange huge loans for those countries from the World Bank and sister organizations. But the money would never go to the actual country; instead it would go to our own corporations to build infrastructure projects in that country like power plants and industrial parks; things that would benefit a few very wealthy families.

So then the people of the country would be left holding this huge debt that they couldn’t repay… That’s when the IMF comes in [saying] ‘We’ll help you restructure your loan, but in order to do that you have to meet certain conditionalities. You have to sell your oil or whatever the coveted resource is at a cheap price, to the oil companies without restrictions.’ Or they would suggest the country sell electric utilities, water and sewage, maybe even its schools and jails to private multi-national corporations.


The tragic reality is that the IMF’s ideologically-driven program of structural reforms and iron-clad conditionalities has left in its wake a vast trail of economic destruction, political instability, poverty, hunger and sickness. Once a country gets caught in its vice-like grip, economic decline and decay is all but guaranteed, as Greece, Portugal and Ireland are now learning.

[Sherman A1]

1. I disagree,

I believe they knew exactly what they were doing and did in anyway.

[still_one]

4. exactly

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. Which the John Perkins excerpt proves.

And the history of Latin America proves.
And africa.

Having extracted almost everything of value from those places, leaving behind a succession of venal heads of state,
the IMF ( Central Banks) went a hunting in Europe.
amd thus we now have Greece and Spain and Italy and Ireland being sucked dry.

Even if Greece did not have its infamous tax dodge problem, there would not have been enough money to feed the IMF.

How is the IMF any different than organized mob racketeering?????

[fasttense]

23. That is the BAD of Capitalism.

The wealth has to come from somewhere. It does not magically arrive into the hands of multinationals corporations and their greedy owners. The "capital" is stolen from the "not as important countries" and funneled to the more important countries until the corporations realize cheap, cheap labor may be had at these devastated countries. Then the BAD of Capitalism comes to the the more important countries too.

And everywhere the very worse of the Bad of capitalism is on display.

[ronnie624]

36. Capitalism is all bad.

There is no such thing as wealth, only resources and energy conversions, and by definition, there can never be profit or surplus. If someone is profiting, then others are not receiving an adequate return on their energy investment. In this case, it is the "cheap, cheap labor" who live in poverty, without access to basic goods and services like sufficient housing and healthcare.

[Scootaloo]

55. +1

You simply cannot have a capitalist system without the poor being exploited to protect the prosperity of the rich. It's a purely extractive economic structure

[Ikonoklast]

88. Thermodynamics applied to Economics, one cannot create or destroy, only change.

Any "excess" bled from the system is from a resulting draw from another area of the system.

Remove the Takers from the system and the end value remains the same, it is only distributed differently.

[jwirr]

41. And when I read things like this I aways wonder just exactly how involved they are in our own

problems?

[Romeo.lima333]

91. any of this sound familiar?

Or they would suggest the country sell electric utilities, water and sewage, maybe even its schools and jails to private multi-national corporations.

[jwirr]

93. Exactly. They really so want us to be a third world country or they really believe that you have to

break it first before you can fix it. We have a bunch of banks that need to be broken up. Elizabeth is right.

[sabrina 1]

21. Yes, they did know exactly the pain and suffering they were causing, because they've been doing it

to other nations, mostly third world countries, before taking their scam operation to the First World, for decades.

Finally Greece has a government that is not going to take any more of their bullying.

Bullies always back down when someone has the guts to stand up to them.

Hopefully now Ireland, Spain, Portugal and all the other nations they've been oppressing and robbing will take a lesson from the Greeks and throw out their IMF complicit, corrupt governments and start taking back their sovereignty.

It's been sickening to watch what these predators have been doing around the globe for far too long, and especially watching them install Goldman Sachs CEOS in leadership positions in Greece, foxes watching the hen houses, so they could continue their takeover of countries.

As someone said a while ago, they don't need military armies anymore, they march through countries imposing their Economic Terrorism on the populations and then buy up their national assets at bargain basement prices. This after forcing them into draconian debt to the World Bank/IMF, then stealing their assets as payment on debt no country can ever pay.

A world wide mafia is all they are.

To now lie and say they 'didn't know' is amazing.

People have been DYING, committing suicide, due to the financial terrorism imposed on them by these criminals.

Kudos to Greek's new Government for finally saying 'enough'!

As Bernie Sanders said, 'we need to support Greece's new government'.

[trumad]

87. Good post Sabrina

[malaise]

2. Bullshit

They've done it over and over in country after country and Jamaica knows well.

[Jeff Murdoch]

34. working as intended. n/t

[malaise]

35. And here's the proof

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/sap/history.php
<snip>
IMF History and Structural Adjustment Conditions

The International Monetary Fund was established, along with the World Bank, at a conference in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, USA, in the closing stages of World War II. The participants represented the governments soon to win the war against fascism. They were concerned about the rebuilding of Europe and of the global economic system after a devastating war.

The key debate at Bretton Woods was between the British and US delegations representing, respectively, liberal and conservative visions of global economic institutions. The British delegation, led by Maynard Keynes, imagined that the new IMF should be a cooperative fund which member states could draw upon to maintain economic activity and employment through periodic crises. This view suggested an IMF helping governments to act as the US government had during the New Deal in response to the great recession of the 1930s.

By contrast, the US delegation to Bretton Woods foresaw an IMF more like a bank, making sure that borrowing states could repay their debts on time. This more conservative view was less concerned to avoid recession and unemployment. The US view prevailed, and set the stage for how economic crises have been handled since World War II (Harris 1988).

[Jeff Murdoch]

37. And as the info graphic posted below by DeSwiss shows,

almost all of the money ends up going to foreign banks, not to help the economy of the country receiving the "loans" from the IMF.

Loan sharks aren't that sadistic.

[jwirr]

42. So okay have they been crooks from the beginning?

[rhett o rick]

64. "Crooks" is such an unfriendly word. In capitalism the goal is to gain more profit/money/power than

the other guy. One way is to create wealth which was very easy when there were over abundance of natural resources and/or slave labor. But in the last 30 years, especially since regulations have been eased, it's far easier to steal wealth. Of course "steal" is such an unfriendly word, in the business world "it's not personal, it's just business."

Some may argue that controlled capitalism can help all (I don't agree) but I doubt that anyone but Alan "the Idiot" Greenspan, would argue that uncontrolled capitalism will implode.

[jwirr]

66. I was mainly referring to the fact that they push excessive loans and then give them to their

friends while the country has to pay for them.

[rhett o rick]

67. I don't know in the specifics, but my answer applies generally to capitalism. I would

say that unless someone stopped them, they would do whatever they can to rape, rob, and steal from anyone that is vulnerable.

[jwirr]

68. Yes I agree.

[G_j]

3. K&R!

[pscot]

5. Not because they weren't warned

Krugman, for one, has been harping on this for years.

[closeupready]

6. There are many who say the IMF is a neoliberal, colonialist institution.

So this admission is a bit ridiculous, IMO.

[sendero]

7. Keep the lies coming pal...

.... there are still a few people that think you are there to help.

[peacebird]

8. IMF needs to be done away with.

[fredamae]

9. Biggest Pile O'Steaming

Crap as I've heard yet from "the steal OPM" crowd.

Even the damn chipmunk in my backyard understands the consequences from Austerity...

[Doctor_J]

10. "Didn't realise" my ass

Hopefully no one buys this shit.

[newthinking]

31. The only difference between greece and the other also highly deficit economies is power

Our own country is far less responsible, but because we can print the world currency and have lots of power in the world's financial systems we have (so far) escaped real consequences.

I love how everyone has bought into the popular versions of "us vs THEM". (THEM being the real irresponsible ones).

All western systems have allowed certain populations to escape paying taxes and have embraced their own forms of deficit economies. But somehow Greece is the real irresponsible one because the common people actually recieved the benefits. Unlike in other western economies where the more "responsible" formula meant "legalizing" the problems through crafty legislation and the benefits quietly going to the wealthiest and most powerful.

[GeorgeGist]

13. Like others 'fail to realise' the damage climate change will do to Earth?

[HereSince1628]

22. pretty much, yes. They refuse to accept until they can't avoid the consequences

then they want absolution and financial support to protect them from their own failure$

[Dont call me Shirley]

14. Austerity has been their plan all along, starting with Chile.

IMF = warehouse for big corporate purchases

[Demeter]

15. The "tragedy" was there was nothing to strip out of Greece for the Predators

And by the way, IMF, Pottery Barn rules apply:

You broke it: You bought it. Pay up!

[randome]

16. "...massive debts, tax evasion and a large black economy..."

The IMF can be faulted but it would be useful if Greece admitted its own shortcomings. For those who say to abolish the IMF, no one forced Greece to accept the bailout.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[U4ikLefty]

74. There you are again sticking up for the 1% against the 99%.

Stay true to your masters randome.

[barbtries]

17. a lot of people knew what it would do.

including me, and i'm just an american worker bee who reads the news.

it reminds me of the war in iraq. i find it so hard to believe that anyone in government believed the bullshit that was being spewed. how could i know what they didn't? but i think it's starting to dawn on me that these people live in a bubble and actually choose to believe the bullshit. they don't put themselves in positions to learn the truth because it makes them uncomfortable. i don't know. there's gotta be a lot of cynicism and dishonesty at play in these people who make decisions that affect millions of other people so harshly, and then they come back after all the damage and say, we didn't know. we didn't realize. i mean, fuck that! then go live in poverty you motherfuckers.

[sendero]

52. You are a lot less cynical than me..

.... as for the Iraq war, I doubt if a single politician DIDN'T know it was all lies and deflection. How could they not? It was freaking obvious from the get go.

[barbtries]

54. exactly my feeling.

i think a couple of things have made me wonder. one is pence's apparent shock at the outrage following his signing of a very bad law. how could he not know that people would react? the other is a man i work with - he really believed romney was going to win. he's not a stupid person otherwise, but he is a self-proclaimed libertarian (i.e., will only vote republican) who watches fox. obviously he was not paying attention to the actual news. anyone who did knew that Obama was going to win. but this guy really didn't. so i wonder. certainly at the time that gw started the war in iraq i could not believe that anyone in congress could possibly not know that it was all bullshit. it's only recently i begin to wonder.

[stillwaiting]

18. Whaddaloadashit.

The IMF knows EXACTLY what they are doing and the consequences of their actions.

[valerief]

20. Who else is tired of the "Whoops" apologies? Plunder and "Whoops." It's as

standard as Divide and Conquer.

[LeftishBrit]

24. k&r

[djean111]

25. And they would and will do it again and again, given the chance. This is, IMO, a bit of a reaction

to everyone joining the new Chinese bank. Doesn't mean the Chinese bank will be any nicer, but the concern that the Chinese bank might not be as good for workers as the IMF was horribly hilarious. No wonder there was a stampede to sign up.
Obama might want to re-think that proposal to partially privatize our infrastructure, too. With all this pesky Peace stuff breaking out, maybe we can use that massive amount of money right here in the United States.

[DeSwiss]

26. K&R

[Cal Carpenter]

27. Fuck you, vultures

IMF admits the sky is blue.

Duh.

[MrMickeysMom]

28. But, they do it ON PURPOSE...

(which I know you know) This is such bullshit coming from them…

The supply (borrowed money) to leverage gross national products is going DOWN, while the acquisition of the capital it takes to make any business sustain the middle class happens to be going up. This is a DIRECT result of the international bankers…

You can't have capitalism without capital, and all these central banks are continuously removing (buying back) capital from the system. So, by using bank reserves to acquire government and agency securities, there will surely be no growth… ON PURPOSE

Give me 5 minutes alone in a closed room with these Fed and ECB fuckers….

[Fumesucker]

29. As they say on the financial blogs.. Hoocoodanode?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoocoodanode

Slang for "Who Could Have Known?" Made mockingly, toward a situation where short term choices present an outcome that is clearly obvious - yet the claimants say the outcome could never be anticipated. There is an implicit assumption that person(s) at fault, refuse to accept responsibility for their choices. The original question (used by them) is an attempt to deflect criticism. This word is popularized on economic blogs and forums.

[dixiegrrrrl]

46. Also popular use in political circles..

Condi Rice..."I don't think anyone could have predicted......"

[hobbit709]

30. "Failed to realize" my ass. They knew damn well what they were doing.

torches and pitchforks are too good for these bastards.

[Starry Messenger]

32. It's a feature, not a bug, of capitalism.

[appalachiablue]

33. These global predator-pirates need to be shut down, for good. Scourge-

[magical thyme]

38. "failed to realize," my ass.

failed to give a flying fuck is more like it. More like deliberately killing off the local population so they can take over a beautiful vacationland.

[Fearless]

39. They knew and didn't care.

[jwirr]

40. Isn't IMF somehow connected to the UN? This one organization can be traced to decades of that

kind of exorbitant loans described in Perkin's book followed by poverty and more wealth for the rich. Beginning with South America and moving across the world from there.

IF this organization is continued to exist it needs to change its trickle down philosophy to something more like that of FDR.

I am glad that finally some country has made them admit that they are wrong.

[Ichingcarpenter]

43. Goldman Warns Greeks If They "Vote Wrong"

The veiled threat to the Greek Parliament was in a December memo from investment bank Goldman Sachs – the same bank that was earlier blamed for inducing the Greek crisis. Rolling Stone journalist Matt Taibbi wrote colorfully of it:


The first thing you need to know about Goldman Sachs is that it’s everywhere. The world’s most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money. In fact, the history of the recent financial crisis, which doubles as a history of the rapid decline and fall of the suddenly swindled dry American empire, reads like a Who’s Who of Goldman Sachs graduates.



Goldman has spawned an unusual number of EU and US officials with dictatorial power to promote and protect big-bank interests. They include .....................


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-12/goldman-warns-greeks-cyprus-style-prolonged-bank-holiday-if-they-vote-wrong



The Noose Around Greece: How Central Banks Harness Governments


http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/03/12/noose-around-greece-how-central-banks-harness-governments





And now for a good Easter Message

[malaise]

44. Yep

+1,000

[DeSwiss]

45. ''...a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity.''

- God, I love good prose.......

[2naSalit]

47. Here's the Primer

that is highly recommended viewing along with The Shock Doctrine...

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/apology_of_an_economic_hitman/

[betterdemsonly]

48. They have made the same mistake several times before on

three other continents. How long does it take them to friggen learn?

[Jefferson23]

49. Recommend. n/t

[Dawson Leery]

50. The IMF and World Bank are owned by the largest banks.

The IMF knew exactly what they were doing.

[hifiguy]

51. Utter Bullshit.

Krugman described exactly what would happen on the opinion page of the goddamn NYT. Anyone with a lick of sense and who is not blinded by corporatist/neoliberal ideology was able to figure it out well in advance. Fuck the economic royalist assholes.

Perkins and Naomi Klein have described this in exhaustive detail as well.

[Rex]

53. The world admitted it had failed to realize the damage the IMF causes to poor nations. Criminals.

Said no major news outlet.

[hifiguy]

58. That fact will be assiduously and utterly ignored

by any "major media." It directly contradicts the corporatist propaganda, therefore it is an un-fact.

[Oilwellian]

56. Remember when the Greek government offered to sell their historical sites...

as partial payment on their debt? Does anyone know if it happened? This article implies they did give up some real estate to these vultures.

Greece protests over government plans to sell off historic national buildings

Greece's cultural gems have become the focus of renewed protest on the streets of Athens following the cash-strapped government's announcement of plans to include prime properties around the Acropolis, and other landmark buildings, in its privatisation programme.

Furious opponents marched through the city centre at the weekend to denounce the "illegal sale" of the country's heritage. More than four years into debt-stricken Greece's prolonged economic crisis, many described the step as the height of humiliation for a nation already hit by excoriating austerity and record levels of poverty and unemployment.

"The government is constantly trying to convey the message that the economy is a success story but in reality that is not the case at all," said prominent leftwing campaigner Petros Constantinou. "The decision to put public buildings up for sale is not just proof that they are nowhere near reaching targets but plain wrong when they could be exploited for public benefit."

(snip)

Under immense pressure to enact reforms for the release of a long overdue €10.1bn (£8.5bn) aid instalment from international creditors, prime minister Antonis Samaras' fragile two-party coalition handed the real estate to the fund overseeing the sale of state assets (Taiped) last week. Among the properties are refugee tenement blocks built to put up Greeks fleeing the Asia Minor disaster in 1922 and culture ministry offices housed in neo-classical buildings in the picturesque Plaka district at the foot of the Acropolis that were erected shortly after the establishment of the modern Greek state. Both are widely viewed as architectural gems.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/16/greece-protests-sell-off-historic-buildings

[Rex]

57. The IMF and the WTO are like the global mafia toward the third world.

Goldman Sachs, BOA, etc.. all realized two things - there is gold in those third world countries (and diamonds) and that nobody can stop them as far as laws go - they write them and have them enforced.

But hey, let's make sure the TPP passes so there will never again be fuss about little shit - like bankrupting a country on purpose or starting a war on purpose...all based on lies and criminal activity.

And the best part, they don't ever have to worry about the Feds busting in or a rival gang showing up or the worst fear...the IRS peeking into the ledger.

Legalized crime seems to be all the rage now.

[randome]

59. Then why did Greece go to them begging to be bailed out?

Greece is not without responsibility for their situation.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Aerows]

61. Your "naivety"

never ceases to amaze me. You suddenly don't know anything - when it suits you. And no, I'm not going to waste time educating someone that is already very well educated on the situation.

Look up "IMF+Greece+Austerity". It will tell you everything you pretend to not already know because you support this kind of heavy handed approach. If there is a heavy handed approach, you are always the first to be on the front lines cheering for it.

I wonder why that is?

[randome]

62. There is no 'cheering' going on. Greece's tax evasion and black economy made them bankrupt.

The IMF may have onerous terms but what is the alternative? No one else is stepping up to give away money to a country that can't manage its own affairs. Bankruptcy is the alternative.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Aerows]

63. Are you not rationalizing the

IMF in this thread?

If I rationalized discrimination against gay people, would I not be "cheering on" discrimination against them?

You seem to think that rationalizing how an entity isn't culpable of harm because the person or entity they harmed couldn't say no, didn't say no due to pressure, were unaware of the repercussions of saying yes, or were just ignorant that they could say no is the same as being innocent of wrongdoing.

Seems to be your MO.

Would you apply those same principles to the victim of all crimes? You sure seem to like to whip them out when it is in defense of federal entities like the NSA, FBI, LEO's of all types, now we have the IMF and I am just shaking my head to see what is next on your list of organizations/entities that have no responsibility to ethics, the spirit of the law, or the letter of the law if said letter can be warped effectively.

[rhett o rick]

65. And once again we blame the victim. Life is so much simpler that way. nm

[Rex]

71. And of course that poster does not mean the ruling non-political elite (the ones that caused it)

he means the labor force that had zero to do with Greece making those kind of decisions. I guess in some weird world, someone will buy into the corporate apologist garbage that doesn't know anything about current events.

[rhett o rick]

73. Victim blaming has a very special place in our society. It's for those that can't handle the

idea that the "system" is fucked-up and therefore they blame victims of the system. Forgive the bad analogy, but if a person gets raped, it's easier to blame them for what they were wearing or how they were acting, than blame our fucked-up culture.

[LeftOfWest]

80. You are wrong.

not even close. all over this thread and more.

[Rex]

83. Of course he is wrong! How well he knows how WE gave Goldman Sachs and the other robber barons

money to bail them out for free! This is just sad to watch.

[randome]

92. So the EU should bail out Greece? I'd have no problem with that.

Not sure if it would fix anything long-term, but why hasn't that been tendered as a possibility? Maybe because it would exacerbate long-standing grievances between countries?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[Rex]

94. Where did I say that? I merely pointed out your hypocrisy.

Nice try.

[Rex]

76. That particular poster said they would give up their liberty if that helped Kraft or Microsoft

make more money (they have a huge love for the TPP and it will bring about global harmony...surprise!). Clearly they just meant to play with our heads this entire time.

[Rex]

69. Why did Dems vote for the IWR?

Sorry, but I am not buying your usual PR nonsense today.

[LeftishBrit]

82. Why did lots of countries?

Why did the UK in 1976? - many people including myself think that was instrumental in putting us on the road to Thatcherism.

Out of desperation, that's why. In fact, the UK had alternatives which it should have tried first; Greece didn't.

The people most responsible for the recent recent disaster that engulfed Greece are the irresponsible and greedy bankers that wrecked the global economy. Greece does bear some responsibility for its problems: not because it is too left-wing or has too generous a social safety net, but because it allowed a culture of tax evasion. Progressive taxation only works if people actually pay their taxes!

Nevertheless, the typical IMF attitude that the best way to improve an economy is to pursue cuts while ignoring the need for growth, and thus to destroy the social safety net and pursue policies that cause massive unemployment, is very dangerous. It is damaging when applied to fundamentally stable countries with good existing resources, such as the UK in the 1970s; and it amounts to a form of economic terrorism when applied to a country in the position of Greece.

[randome]

86. Well, THAT was a calm, reasonable response. Are you sure you're in the right thread?

Last edited Mon Apr 6, 2015, 09:07 AM - Edit history (1)

Maybe the IMF -and institutions like it- need to have a mandated court review regarding the social implications of their terms.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Rex]

95. Maybe the IMF needs to be dismantled so that it can't steal from countries anymore?

LOL! Sorry but all have been reasonable responses, you just never can accept anything told to you as reasonable if the culprits are bankers. Why do you love bankers so much?

[Aerows]

60. It was a warning

to anyone that got uppity like Greece did.

They had the audacity to get angry about it. Italy shut up and took it, but they have the Vatican so the IMF couldn't screw with them TOO hard.

[WillyT]

72. Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[arikara]

75. Right. This coming from the

lying assholes who even project riots in their "restructuring" plans.

[Binkie The Clown]

77. It's refreshing to hear economists admit what we all know already...

Economists are full of shit and don't have a clue what they are doing or talking about.

[DeSwiss]

78. Agree 100%

The reason economists are full of shit regarding the economy is because the economy as such is BULLSHIT wrapped up in jargon, and illustrated with nice graphs and pie-charts that don't mean a goddamned thing. The ''economy'' is nothing more than modern slavery, pure and simple. It uses debt contracts and mortgages and lines-of-credit in-place of chains and shackles.

- We are self-kept slaves. Which if you're gonna have slaves, those are the best kind.

[ronnie624]

79. +1

Mainstream economic theory is pure rubbish, directly at odds with the Laws of Thermodynamics. This alone renders it nonsense.

Modern human economic activity, by its very nature, is nothing more than a massive, complex series of energy conversions, whereby stored energy in the form of resources, and available energy in the form of human labor, are converted into usable energy in the form of machinery, housing, transportation, electricity, fuel and so forth. Every last bit of it, top to bottom, must conform to the fundamental universal laws that govern energy conversions. They are unbending and insurmountable. Those who embrace the economic orthodoxy, believe in magic, and demonstrate the abysmal ignorance of the general population, with regard to basic scientific principles.

[DeSwiss]

85. Very well put. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

81. I'm waiting for the IMF to offer a chunk of cash for infrastructure spending in America.

[djean111]

84. Obama has already proposed some sort of "public-private partnership". So, in a way,

privatizing our infrastructure has been put on the table.

[annabanana]

89. The IMF has been, from it's very inception,

designed to affect a bloodless coup over the entire globe.

[turbinetree]

90. Lets not

forget that Goldman Sachs and there cronies had a lot to do with this stuff, and the IMF provided cover