I'm done supporting cops, deputies, detectives, Law Enforcement in general. Here's TODAYS video...

[cherokeeprogressive]

This happened in the San Bernardino National Forest, which I live smack in the middle of. After the first kick to the head, the suspect was unconscious, which I think is evident when the second deputy kicks him SQUARE IN THE BALLS and the guy never moves an inch.

From now on, I will NEVER post such bullshit as "aww come on let's wait til the full story comes out". I'll just keep my thoughts to myself.

Makes me sick sick sick sick.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Yeah I posted earlier in the day

this is not the first time that a media recording catches cops doing this... you'd think they'd "learn."

As to the rest of the story on this, we have partially the story, at least my local affiliate had it... and given the treatment... I don't expect the DA to file charges, hoping the victim in this case, does not sue the county in a multimillion lawsuit (which is well deserved.)

As to the rest of your sentiments... I agree.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. The SB County Sheriff has opened an investigation. Careers will end, and jail time will ensue.

Of that I am certain.

Good to see you nadin.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I wish I was as certain about jail time

as you are.

Been writing a lot on police issues.

I can even say I am a good reporter. We are definitely not in my local Chief's Christmas list. We ask tough questions.

[951-Riverside]

25. NEVER ever going to happen under San Bernardino County DA Mike Ramos

He made his position clear a few months ago.

And I'm sure a few of those deputies (especially the one who got brushed by the horse) will be allowed to "medical retire".

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. Ramos has big plans for Bear Valley... Jet service at the airport... and... and...

a CASINO! Yee haw!

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Textbook of WHY DA's have to be removed

from use of force incidents. The conflict of interest is huge.

[CanonRay]

88. I wouldn't bet the farm on that

[Logical]

140. Did you see his comments????????

He discussed how hard it is to come down from an adrenalin high? So that starts the excuses.

[Adsos Letter]

2. My god...

...speechless.

[progressoid]

5. On the ground with his hands behind his back.

WTF?

[Buzz Clik]

6. Kick to the kick, kick to the groin. The first of dozens of blows to a man who had surrendered.

[tblue37]

39. Repeated foot and knee kicks to the head, too. They all swarmed to make sure they got in on

the fun. Obviously they really, really enjoy having the opportunity to beat and kick someone into a bloody pulp.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. Blacks have dealt with this kind of behavior from law enforcement since the founding of this country

Now people are starting to notice because of the widespread use of video recording technology.

Of course video doesn't always mean law enforcement will be prosecuted.

Eric Garner was choked to death on camera and the officer still wasn't charged.

I'm glad you've finally opened your eyes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. Thanks C_D

[snowshadow]

17. Couldn't Agree More!

About 30 years ago, I know it's a long time ago, I went fishing with a NYC cop (fishing friends). One day coming back from our fishing trip there was a young African American man walking down the street minding his own business. The cop said to me there's a felon waiting to happen. Even back then the mind set was against minorities, I would hate to imagine what he did while in uniform. I never asked because I was afraid what he might say.

[bravenak]

9. I'm sorry. I know how hard it is when people that you looked up to lose your respect.

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. No apology necessary.

And you don't know who I look up to, nor whom I might respect. Not trying to start an argument.

I don't necessarily need to respect someone I might defend. I don't necessarily look up to a person in order to defend them either.

[bravenak]

12. Fine with me.

[morningfog]

10. Welcome to the club. You can tell a cop is lying when

their mouth is moving. Never trust a cop. Interact with them as little as possible.

[Kablooie]

13. If I do jury duty I will assume the cop is lying unless he shows compelling evidence otherwise.

Until recently I would have had exactly the opposite view.
I'm sure there are some who are honorable but there are just too many cases of police being thugs and monsters recently to have any faith in them anymore.

[Taitertots]

33. Just to be fair, I need compelling evidence from anyone

10 years ago they could have gotten away with claiming video taping everything was too expensive. The only reason widespread expansions of body/gun cameras is opposed is to avoid potential civil liability for police criminality.

Say "no" to the chest cameras because normal body movements obstruct the camera. Every Officer should have a helmet with a camera.

[erronis]

93. I like that attitude. Never would have before these last few years.

Something has changed to make too many of our LOE into losers.

Perhaps it's just the normal rot that happens in any work place.

But I wonder if there isn't something more insidious that is being promulgated from higher up or from outside interests.

[Kablooie]

109. I think it's probably always been like this except now everyone has cameras and internet.

Until the last few years we would only hear of these events as news items that were written up from police testimony and published the next day in papers or on TV.
Most of the news would be local so people in other areas would never hear of them.

Now everyone has a video camera with them and the internet allows us to publish it worldwide, minutes after an event occurs.
So it's reasonable to infer that these have always occurred in the past, perhaps with the same frequency, but there would be no evidence except the police version of events.

So it's possible that nothing has really changed except that we can see how our police behave.
Police all over the country will have to clean up their act for the first time ever.

[ncjustice80]

119. I cant wait for the day I get jury duty.

If its assault on law enforcement/resisting arrest, instant not guilty.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. I was disqualified from such a jury

you see, and they were correct, I was assaulted in the line of duty as a medic. So of course I would sympathize with the officer. While they might have had a point...and a good attorney will ferret this out...these days I have no idea how exactly I would feel about it. Not after all that water under the bridge.

[gopiscrap]

128. Exactly

I have been saying this about fucking shit stain pigs for about 25 years. Give them a badge and they become Nazi like drunk with power and fueled with roids! Most are power hungry racists to begin with and have found an outlet for their rage!!!

[blkmusclmachine]

14. ,

,

[Warpy]

15. There is no reason for anything but cuffing him

and maybe throwing him over a horse like a sack of manure for an uncomfortable ride to a squad car.

There should be some jail time over this one, especially for the first cop who kicked him between the legs.

These bastards are acting like an army of occupation, not a police force.

The DOJ needs to step in all over the country. Local control of these guys isn't providing adequate training to deal with idiots who run and piss them off without becoming worse than the idiots, appointing themselves judge, jury and executioner.

This is just unacceptable.

[ncjustice80]

43. It isnt training thats the problem

They receive plenty of training about this stuff. The problemnia the majority of cops are racist, untrustworthy thugs. The solution needs to go deeper- harsher penalties for cops, incressed monitoring, and disarming them of their weapons. Also, use of force needs to be re-examined in this country- officers need more restrictions on when they can use force and what kinds they can use. For instance, and offixer should not be allowed to shoot someone unless they are fired upon. A rare few may end up dead, but they would be good guys for a change.

[bettyellen]

53. "Begging for it" is condoning the cop's behavior. And it's repulsive.

[MyOwnPeace]

69. And......

it should be a jury that decides what and how he gets what he was begging for.

The officers are NOT the judge and jury!

[magical thyme]

72. which is why I don't condone the police behavior

and, as I wrote in another thread about this, why we have a justice system.

I could not be trusted to enact punishment on the cretin that thought he was going to steal my horse to sell (most likely to a local kill buyer for shipment to a canadian slaughterhouse).

I could not be trusted to enact punishment on the neighbor who tried to run over my dogs in my driveway.

I could not be trusted to enact punishment on my identity thief.

But I cannot summon any sympathy for the guy. No, they haven't described his injuries. I haven't heard anything about the injuries to the poor horse, either.

[Logical]

142. LOL, human beat = OK to you. Nice. nt

[bettyellen]

74. Bigger bullshit. Karma ain't what you think it is, and cops should not be excused for doling out

Street justice, which is what you're suggesting here.

[cherokeeprogressive]

77. "He was begging for it."

Awesome reply.

[magical thyme]

82. it is what bullies tend to do. nt

[frylock]

104. if that were the case, cops would be getting the shit kicked out of them every minute..

of every damn day.

[Marrah_G]

147. You did see him on the ground with his hands behind his back, right?

And I am sure you are also aware that it is not a police officer's job to hand out punishments, right?

[cwydro]

63. I understand what you're saying.

As you said, it does not condone the cop's behavior.

But good luck in bringing up what the criminal did...you're asking for a pile- on.

[magical thyme]

67. I know.

But part of me really doesn't care about their sanctimonious, holier-than-thou lectures about how I'm supposed to feel.

The perp here happens to have hit a trifecta with me, because I've been a victim, or very nearly so, of 3 of his major crimes. My criminals failed (well, the ID thief succeeded in getting all my personal information from a pension file but failed to hijack my credit with it), but also walked off scott free.

My thinking brain says the police behavior is horrific.

But it always amazes me how quickly bullies start yelling "poor me" when they meet up with bigger, badder bullies.

[cwydro]

68. Yup.

[cherokeeprogressive]

78. He didn't yell "poor me". He was unconscious.

[magical thyme]

81. no, his lawyer is doing it for him.

along with a bunch of DUers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. I am confused, so he should not have a lawyer?

That is even more topsy turvy logic here.

[hueymahl]

89. It is exactly this kind of f*cked up logic

that leads to police thinking they have a right to violate the law and engage in brutality. "He had it coming". Sounds like the defense of of every asshole on this planet. And what every bully tells himself.

[frylock]

105. word

[sarge43]

113. An eye for an eye and all the world will be blind nt

[lib87]

116. Thank you.

If this was so justified aka "he had it coming", the cop should not have lied about the shooting to begin with. He knew he committed a crime and had to cover it up.

Thank goodness for that video.

[Comrade Grumpy]

70. Condoning the cops' behavior is exactly what you're doing. Cops don't get to deliver "karma."

[magical thyme]

80. ha!ha!ha! you write the universal karma kickback laws?!? nt

[frylock]

106. evidently you do

[malaise]

111. Rule of law

remember that?

[project_bluebook]

16. protect and serve has morphed into

fill as many corporate prisons as you can. For profit law enforcement, power and control. Its 1984 on steroids.

[winstars]

18. here is the full video:

[camelfan]

19. George Carlin on police brutality

Not surprisingly, George Carlin, in 55 seconds, says more about police brutality than the media has in years.

[link:http://goo.gl/bw9Ol9|

[DeSwiss]

31. Thanks, I had forggotten that one.

- Welcome to DU.

[Bonobo]

20. I have been saying it over and over.

Male privilege is a real thing, but this sure is no privilege.

And if you are male, this is a threat -a very real threat- that you face.

It IS possible for complexity when we talk about gender issues. There is no one perfect perspective. There are many.

Just like the talk that a Black man must have with his son, this is a talk that all parents must have with their male child.

The threats of physical violence if you are a man are a real issue that deserve to be discussed without having the "What about me-ism" thrown in our face too.

[lykemike]

21. And this

Is why people run from the police.. who assume that if you run, you must be guilty of something. It's mind-boggling to hear, over and over how cops are afraid for their lives (usually before killing an unarmed black man), when they terrorize helpless civilians.
If self preservation calls for "fight or flight", and flight isn't working.. what's left?

[951-Riverside]

22. Stop union busting!

These are proud union members and thus deserves our support no matter what!

Police unions are unions just like Corporations are people, my friend.

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. You posted this to make me feel better somehow? Or are you just being a dick?

[951-Riverside]

24. I'm not sure anymore

All I know is that if nothing happens to curb this problem now, this country is going to be in deep trouble later.

These police unions better step up and be on the right side of history.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. If I may, with all the work we have done on police

I wish it was as simple as getting rid of the unions... or any other easily identified issue.

This is far more complex than just unions. SC is a right to work state, there are no police unions. There is a little stat released this afternoon. Over the last five years they have had 210 (I am going from memory) lethal use of force incidents. Remember, there are no unions, why the officer was fired so easily. (And I cannot find it, even after it was mentioned on the TV machine)

Care to take a guess how many officers have faced a judge? That be 2. Care to guess how many have been convicted? That be a nice fat goose egg. I agree with you, we need to do something... but getting rid of the unions is not the answer. I say this because this is extremely complex. It starts with civilian oversight, they are used to believing police chiefs when they tell them unicorns fart nice rainbows... or when they truly defer to chiefs, like Bloomberg did with Kelley, or when reducing crime becomes such a huge priority (never mind rates have crashed), that politicians will go to almost any extreme to get that.

Don't get me started with the brass, who also is doing a fine game of CYA. Elected sheriffs are at times more easily held accountable, but then we have a certain sheriff in AZ who is out of control. Then you have DAs scratching the back of law enforcement, and the other way around. It is toxic actually, and you will hardly find a DA willing to take on the police. It is not becuase of the unions, it is because of the endorsements, and it is not just unions who endorse. And getting them to stop, and I mean both the brass and the unions, could fail a constitutional challenge on speech rights.

My view, we need not just do a top down review of practices, but reforms the kind this country has never seen. While the unions might be part of it... they are really a small piece of the puzzle, though I will grant you this... Union spokespeople are not the most sophisticated people you will ever find, especially when it comes to PR. When compared to a Chief, or assistant chief, even PIO, they tend to insert foot in mouth regularly. Why? They are used to talking to the troops, not pesky reporters. So they tend to talk to reporters the same way they talk to the troops in order to get elected, and they are almost militant about it. In the process everybody gets amazing quotes. Perfect example, NYPD Patrolman's Association. Lynch was a quote machine...

Chiefs, on the other hand, are smooth operators. You will not get a chief to deviate from his or her talking points, trust me, we have tried. And when they get really irritated they just shut up... and fast. Becoming a chief is also a political job, and chiefs are very sophisticated on that aspect, since departments are very political as well. So climbing those high ranks is not easy. Some departments are worst at this than others.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Update (and way past my bedtime, but I needed to wait until NBC updated)

We have a name.

The man, identified as Francis Jared Pusok, 30, of Apple Valley, was hospitalized with unknown injuries, authorities said.

And while he has a colorful history with law enforcement...

The series of events started when deputies from the Victor Valley station went to a home on Zuni Road to serve a search warrant in an identity theft investigation, authorities said in a news release.

The suspect took off in a vehicle and deputies initiated a pursuit through unincorporated Apple Valley, the town of Apple Valley and unincorporated Hesperia. The area is more than 80 miles northeast of downtown Los Angeles.

Source: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html#ixzz3Wsw0xDqg
Follow us: @nbcsandiego on Twitter | NBCSanDiego on Facebook

here is what the officers did, according to local NBC station, "37 punches, 17 hits, 13 to the head, and 4 baton hits." Transcribing.

Now the head, the groin and the shoulder areas are considered red zones, aka no hit. Why? They can kill. This is part of the general certificate officers receive while training at any POST certified police academy. They are trained not to do this. It happens to be that the San Bernardino County Sheriffs is a POST certified academy. And these are the certs in the state.

Now I will repeat myself... after a small discussion over at FB... whether this guy had a history of resisting arrest, check, some criminal history, check, or was wanted on an arrest warrant, check. What we all saw this afternoon was classic contempt of cop. What the officers did was not justified. Nor do we know how how severe the injuries Jared Pusok sustained (my guesstimate is they are). He did lay there for 45 minutes not moving, and with no medical attention.

There were three deputy injuries, two for dehydration and... and the horsey did not like them and one deputy suffered an injury due to the horse. I will note this, none of the injuries were sustained during contact with the suspect.

My own view is that after this beating... the DA will try to negotiate a we don't charge you if you don't sue us. If Mr. Pusok should die, and now we know he is a minority from the photo posted at the NBC local station site, then we will see what charges, if any, are filed. Oh and the ACLU is not amused either.

Slight edit, the only reason the DA might go there, is...this is not good for public relations. Not one bit. Though if he digs in his heels, it could prove entertaining, (not in a good way), if the injuries prove so severe, think head injury, not unlikely after that many contacts, this could prove a between hard rock and hard place. And yes, DA's also care about PR, and you will see Main Stream, they have started, to dig for anything wrong that Mr. Pusok has ever done. No, he is no boy scout, but this is not justified in any way, shape or form. What we saw was a human being punished extra judicially by a few angry men. (I did not spot any women)

Correction, this is a while man. NBC -7 locally did not.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Wow nadin thanks for your info... goodness but you can ferret out info others can't.

or don't care to look for.

nadin... THANKS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Take into account there is another photo

Last edited Fri Apr 10, 2015, 03:51 AM - Edit history (1)

circulating from FB for a person with the same name. I am going with the photo on NBC San Diego that is part of the story that shows the person who is a minority with a US Army graphic in the back. I would think NBC vetted that photo, while the poor white guy on FB who happens to live in Pine Valley might share the name.

Many folks who have a colorful history with Law Enforcement... tend not to have Facebook pages. I know a few, why? They know PD keeps tracks of them. And if they do, their posting is minimal.

And LA NBC station interviewed the family. The FB photo is accurate. I have no idea why my local station did that.

They have refused to tell the girlfriend his condition. I suspect they are not married, therefore HIPPA comes in. But she already has a lawyer, and the lawyer said the same thing... no footage, we would not know about this.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html#ixzz3Wsw0xDqg

Edited to BOLD the part of the correction...

[Bonobo]

36. LOL. That Army photo is an advertisement poster for the Army. That's all.

The NBC video shows a photo of a caucasian man.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. burp...

[magical thyme]

46. "the horsey did not like them"

Um, no. The horse stood quietly with them after being rescued.

The cop was "kicked" in the same way that the articles claim the "horse threw the rider."

Most likely a cop got in too close at some point and was kicked by accident. Just like the jerk-off horse thief couldn't ride for shit and lost his balance while jerking that poor horse around.

I don't condone the cops, but horse thief gets no sympathy from me. He's an animal abuser, and I doubt the horse's owner just quietly handed over the reins. Karma bites.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. From the official news release

Summary
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 12:12 p.m. deputies from the Victor Valley station went to the Zuni Rd. residence to serve a search warrant related to an Identity Theft investigation. Upon arrival the suspect, Francis Pusok, fled the location in a vehicle. Deputies pursued Pusok through the unicorporated area of Apple Valley, the Town of Apple Valley and further into the unincorporated area of Hesperia. Pusok abandoned the vehicle southwest of Bowen Ranch and fled on foot. Deputies were actively searching for Pusok on foot, using off-highway vehicles and helicopters. Within minutes, deputies received information that the suspect came into contact with a group of people near the Deep Creek Hot Springs and stole a horse. He fled on horseback on dirt trails, through very rugged, steep terrain, causing numerous injuries to the horse.

A Sheriff’s helicopter inserted a team of deputies in the area of Hwy 173/Arrowhead Lake Rd. to take the suspect in to custody. Deputies made contact with Pusok and as they approached, the horse threw him off. A Taser was deployed but was ineffective due to his loose clothing. A use of force occurred during the arrest. An internal investigation will be conducted regarding the use of force.

“The video surrounding this arrest is disturbing and I have ordered an internal investigation be conducted immediately”, stated Sheriff John McMahon. He further stated, “In addition, members of the Specialized Investigations Detail are responding to conduct the criminal investigation.”

Three deputies were injured during the search, two suffered dehydration and a third was injured when kicked by the horse. All three were transported to the hospital for treatment.

Pusok was transported to a local hospital with unknown injuries.

Anyone with information regarding this investigation is urged to contact Sergeant James Evans at [phone]. Callers wishing to remain anonymous are urged to call the We-tip Hotline at 1-800-78-CRIME (27463) or you may leave information on the We-Tip Hotline at www.wetip.com.

Refer: Public Affairs
Phone No. [phone]





John McMahon, Sheriff-Coroner
San Bernardino County Sheriff-Coroner Department
Sheriff’s Public Affairs Division
655 E. Third Street
San Bernardino, California 92415-0061
Telephone: [phone]

http://cms.sbcounty.gov/sheriff/MediaCenter/SheriffPressReleases/PressReleasesfor2015/April/VictorValleySuspectArrestedHorsePursuit.aspx

Go argue with the news release writer.

As to your lack of sympathy for a man getting the shit beat out of him after clearly surrendering, in clear violation of all police arrest regulations, that is telling, and not in a good way. I will not repeat what I told you in that other thread... simply no need. But is is attitudes like this that allow torture to exist and police abuses to continue.

[magical thyme]

79. there's no sign of him kicking anyone in the video

and the horse is very quiet and well behaved. Most likely, the cop just got in too close at the wrong moment.

Just like some news reports claiming the thief "was thrown from the horse" when it is very clear in the video that the horse didn't buck, rear, bolt or do anything while the horse thief tried to jerk him around, lost his balance and fell off.

And as I've written elsewhere, I'm not interested in sanctimonious, holier-than-thou lectures from anyone telling me how I'm supposed to feel about animal abusers.

Abusive bullies eventually meet up with bigger, badder bullies. That's a fact and when it happens, I don't feel any sympathy for any of the bullies.

That doesn't mean I condone or support the police actions.

I just don't give a flying fuck for the poor widdle horse thief. I'm only sorry the horse didn't give him a good kick in the teeth or even better, give him a seriously wild ride.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. And I am not being sanctimonious, or lecturing you,

just pointing a fact. Creating the other for whatever reason, in your case animal abuse, it could be something else, like race, faith, sexual orientation, etcetera, makes the practice of torture that much easier.

That is a fact. You can argue this fact with human rights organizations. I am not lecturing you, I am just stating a well known and trodden fact. I do not lecture, I state facts. And this one is extremely well established in human psychology. Nor will I tell you how to feel. Just will share with you how I see this. Yes, Mr. Pusok is not a nice human being given his colorful history with law enforcement, what happened to him was extrajudicial punishment, and I can separate his previous actions from the fact that he was beaten to a pulp by officers of the law. My psychological makeup can separate the two and I can have empathy for him, his girlfriend and his kids, as well as the rest of the family. Does that mean I would invite him for dinner? No, not really.

And I should qualify not a good human being. He is still a father and is steady with somebody. I am sure I would be corrected on my impressions based on news reporting. To those people what happened to him yesterday IS personal.

As to the horse and all actions by the horse, most news reports were based on the incident report...in fact, I quoted that precise news release in my own coverage of this just about ten minutes ago. Don't worry, I will not post it on DU... it's a new angle, (how social media reacted to it), but still, not worthy of DU.

Hold a second I will quote the exact phrase for you from the release.

Deputies made contact with Pusok and as they approached, the horse threw him off.

It is in the same linked document I gave you.

Now the reporters are being good stenographers here... the Sheriff's office has a horse unit. I do not expect reporters who live in cities... or are on a helicopter and later revising their own reports for later news shows using that precise news release, to know this. I could bore you to tears with conure behavior since we share the house with two of them, but I am hardly qualified to know better about horses. (My husband is qualified though. He worked with horses at one point in his youth) On the other hand, the SO should know better. As I wrote, they have a horse unit.

You would be amazed how many of these misstatements actually do start with officials. Some of it is trying to make it understandable to most folks. They realize, in this case, that most people have not been near a horse beyond a photo. And since the story just went sort off, national... this makes it even more likely that these kinds of statements will be made.

[magical thyme]

99. so you equate being an animal abuser with sexual orientation or race? Seriously?

"Creating the other for whatever reason, in your case animal abuse, it could be something else, like race, faith, sexual orientation..."


"McMahon said that while he could not say the deputies in the incident knew Pusok, those involved in the initial pursuit were familiar with him.

On a prior domestic call, McMahon said, Pusok “made threats to kill a deputy sheriff and in fact shot a puppy in front of part of his family."

Yeah. That's just like being gay.

He shot a defenseless puppy. I have no sympathy for him. Should the cops of beaten him up? Of course not. They should have followed the rules. Do I feel sorry for him? Not one whit.

Now, back on to ignore you go. Don't know how you fell off to begin with...I've had you there for years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. It is not me who does

it is human rights organizations and experts in the subject

http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1444&context=ilj


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-n-criticizes-u-s-torture-array-human-rights-issues-n257866

This is hardly for you at this point, since you obviously do not care. This is for others. But you are condoning torture. That is exactly what happened yesterday. Good you have me on ignore, Thanks. I really do not want to have a conversation with a person who condones torture.

By the way, you should put a bunch of other folks on ignore, who also did not like your posts, becuase they saw them as I did, a justification of torture and what allows these beat ins to continue. I do not expect you to be consistent though.

[RedCappedBandit]

136. Thank you for your contributions to this thread.

You've hit the nail on the head repeatedly. The fact that the other poster would put you on ignore fore detailing the truth says enough about her.

[Bonobo]

29. This is probably him (FB link)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=296888210334249&set=pb.100000392170562.-2207520000.1428648787.&type=3&theater

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

30. Hope this guy sues the county in civil court

Some of the kicks, especially the ones to the head could have inflicted serious injury, even death.

[Jenny Red Eye]

38. I weep for the two dehydrated cops!

I hope they got their necessary moistness!

[magical thyme]

47. they were running through desert. you can die from dehydration. nt

[sorefeet]

54. You can die by being kicked

IN THE BALLS. Fuck the pigs.

[Trillo]

57. There are a few sites which assert that has happened.

Wikipedia is not among them, but they do state that in some places kicking to the groin is considered a sexual assault.

[magical thyme]

73. and depending on the nature of his injuries, the horse could die

He shot his girlfriend's dog while he was assaulting her. I wonder if the dog died.

He stole a car and led the police on a car chase. He could have hit and killed somebody then, too.

You go on a crime spree, you risk killing innocents and you risk getting killed.

[blackspade]

122. You continue to justify this man's beating. Why is that?

We get it, the guy is a scumbag.
But that doesn't justify the beating by the pigs.
He should be charged and brought to trial, not beaten half to death.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. She did put me on ignore after I pointed out

this is classic otherism behavior, which makes things like torture much easier. So I recommend avoiding that issue, if you wish to still be read, assuming she has not put you on ignore already.

This is the issue that we must confront, making other people the other, for whatever reason.

What amazes me is that people will scream about TORTURE, GAD, when committed by the CIA, but when confronted by things like this, or solitary confinement (considered torture by both american psychiatrist and human rights workers) it is ok.

This is partially why we as a nation are in such trouble. We really have no moral clarity. Individuals do, but social norms don't.

On the bright side, arguments involving the horse and horse thieves were consistently shot down by other people over other social media platforms as well. So perhaps, things will get better... not that I believe that for one damned second.

[blackspade]

129. I hear you.

I'm not worried about people ignoring me.
That's their choice.
I personally have never put someone on ignore.
I am at complete odds with many DUers, but I don't mind reading what they post because it helps me clarify my own positions.
That is why I pose questions and ask for clarification.

[Comrade Grumpy]

71. Especially when over-exerting yourself beating the shit out of a helpless prisoner.

You're starting to verge on the disgusting.

[peacebird]

103. Helpless and completely motionless prisoner, he didn't even move when kicked in the balls....

These cops deserve jail. Protect & serve? More like mafia thugs out inflicting pain for fun

[ncjustice80]

115. You can die from getting kicked in the head by a pig too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. And their victim has a concussion, but you are ok with that.

speaks volumes, really.

[RedCappedBandit]

137. Interesting that you have empathy for some "big bad bullies" nt

[KG]

40. i've never trusted or respected cops. was taught a lesson in early teens.

[99Forever]

41. THIS is what police ARE.

Brutes, bullies, murderers, and accomplices. Criminal gangsters hiding behind their badges and a completely corrupt legal system.

[Vinca]

42. This is horrible . . . many police-related stories are horrible.

But don't paint every cop as being like this. I was a cop. The only time I ever fired my gun was during training and once to put an injured deer out of its misery. I don't recall ever hitting or injuring anyone. My most vivid memory is from a woman who approached me about a year after I left the department. She wanted to thank me. Apparently something I said to her during an arrest caused her to check into rehab, get off the booze and turn her life around. Other cops I worked with did such things as run into burning buildings to save little kids. I remember one guy fishing something out of a newborn's throat after the baby turned blue and saving his life. Obviously it's not all "feel good" stories, but the truly horrific ones are the aberration and not the norm. Maybe it's because I'm a woman and we approach problems differently, but that was my experience.

[ncjustice80]

44. They are the norm stop being an apologist.

Cops disgust me

[Vinca]

87. I'm not an apologist for bad cops. I despise bad cops.

They make the lives of good cops miserable and shame the profession.

[ann---]

51. Where were the "good" cops in that video?

Not ONE tried to stop the beating - looks like all or most participated in it. There
are NO good cops in my view. Not one.

[cherokeeprogressive]

58. + n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. We have been following local police issues with care

and here is where the attitude you are seeing is coming from. We had a perfect example in Council by the way, it was textbook.

First off, I am glad you had an average, somewhat boring police career. Indeed, most officers will never draw their weapons outside the range. Policing has never been safer either, which is a paradox. As crime rates have crashed and police work has actually become much safer, police officers feel more and more under siege.

That said, we have a problem with the institutional culture. I do not know if we are seeing more of it because cameras are everywhere, or we are seeing more of it becuase it has somehow become acceptable. That is not an idle question.

What I know is that some departments have a reputation for this. For example, LAPD, Chicago PD, NYPD, hell, even my locals these days.

To the example... my local police department started to gather stop data for vehicular stops after they stopped doing it. After a year, their own internal data revealed a shall we say racial profiling problem? The Chief sat there in committee and said she did not see a problem and it was not tolerated. She was challenged on this by a former cop, Lt to be exact, from another department who now is serving her first term in City Council. She is also black.

It was the kind of exchange that my local news reporters, from larger networks refused to speak off (which goes back to the culture of media which refuses to mostly go there due to access.) We transcribed quite a bit of it from the MP3 file.

So going back to your statement... I would not say that every department has a problem, but I am betting more than just the few I mentioned do. And until police agencies stop with the siege mentality, and this has to start at the top, and actually use quite a bit of introspection, these problems will just continue to worsen. The problem of civilian perception might be that more of these events are surfacing due to recordings, but perception IS reality.

Here, the relevant part of that article between the chief and the council member.

The most interesting back and forth came between Councilmember Myrtle Cole and the Chief. Cole is a former Police Lieutenant, not with SPDP. Cole faced the Chief, “this weighs heavy on my heart. Being a seasoned African American woman this weighs heavy on my heart.”

Cole also thanked the community for keeping this at the forefront. After that Cole got very emotional, “racial profiling, it exists. Data is saying that it exists. The stats show that when blacks are stopped there is a one in four chance that they will be searched when stopped.”

According to Chief Zimmerman the majority of the stops of those who are black were “fourth waivers,” meaning parolees who had no fourth amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure. Cole countered by asking both Jones and Harvey if either of them were parolees; they both denied this. Yet, as Harvey pointed out, he has been stopped repeatedly for walking while black. A few times in front of his home.

Cole then asked, “in your opinion Chief do the statistics reflect racial profiling? In your opinion, does it? Because it does to me.”

Zimmerman said that the statistics do show that those of color, both black and Hispanic, “were stopped in greater proportion. We do not teach racial profiling, nor do we condone racial profiling. But I will tell you also, that everyone has biases… police officers have biases, community members have biases.” She said that a new class for advanced officer training is precisely on this subject. She said, “that although everyone has biases,” this cannot enter the performance on duty. “You must be fair and impartial.”

http://reportingsandiego.com/2015/02/25/a-discussion-of-race-at-city-hall-san-diego-pd-releases-stop-data-for-2014/

For the record the issues with law enforcement are also serious issues at the courts and prison system. We really need to have a very in depth conversation about the war on drugs, the prison system, how many are railroaded and sent to jail due to poor representation... and all that.

I will grant you this... it is not just that cops start careers wanting to become bad cops, but the lack of accountability that people like Frank Serpico encountered over two generations ago, has only gotten worst. I have the feeling that either it is like it has always been, but now it is surfacing everywhere since we all have a fairly capable video recording device on us at all times (which is not good if you are a cop), or it has indeed gotten worst. My theory is the latter, and it has to do with 911. Oh and this is starting to change, as more and more people realize that a police beating will no longer be limited where it has always been acceptable, the hood.

[Vinca]

97. I think a huge part of the problem is who police departments are hiring: war vets.

Of course everyone wants to support a vet, but if a person has been in combat for months or years on end, it's highly unlikely they will have anything other than an "us v. them" mentality. To compound the problem, police departments in general have become militarized with their own armored vehicles and more hand-me-down military gear than they can handle. Maybe a partial solution to the problem is more psychological testing of potential recruits and a no-holds-barred search of their Internet history. And it wouldn't hurt to take some policies backward in time before everyone walking erect wasn't a potential terrorist to cops. More cops need to be walking the beat and shooting the breeze with the locals. Community policing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. We looked into the hiring of vets and the low end is 10 percent

the high number is 30 percent, with this being closer to 25 percent around the country. This is from the DOJ... and this has not broken any averages from previous eras. A minority of police, a signifiant minority in some departments, are military veterans. Not all are coming from combat arms either.

Ironically from talking to sources the conflict is actually between the vets, who do not like what they are seeing, and the non vets... I just wish any officer came forwards and spoke to these horrors though, and the shield is starting to crack in some departments.

The militarization, you have no argument from me, but the source of that was 911 and the fulfillment of what started to happen in full in the early 1990s, and that was the rise of the warrior cop as an ideology.

This book, by the way is a tour de force...

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/rise-of-the-warrior-cop-radley-balko/1113024804?ean=9781610392112

We challenged the Chief on community policing recently. She will tell you ten ways to Sunday how much they are doing that at SDPD, which was where some of this was actually developed in the 1990s... today they spend their time chasing the radio, and tend to be behind in responding to category 1 calls. They do not have time to walk the beat. They at times are under pressure to K a cat 1 call to respond to the next one... yes, it is that bad. Listening to the scanner can be enlightening since you hear this from dispatch often.

This was actually addressed in the DOJ report that was put together for SDPD and DOJ, well PERF, recommended improved staffing (DUH!). But that will take a couple of years, at least... assuming people stay and no longer leave, now that better salaries have been approved.I am not so sure that SDPD is the only department having these staffing issues, especially larger urban ones.

There are many structural reasons why this department is well under approved manning, among them poor pay. But the fact is that they are bleeding more officers than they are bringing in still. So instead of admitting the issue... Houston we have a problem, you are right we do not have enough officers to walk the beat, she still tried to sugar coat it.

From talking to others who have experience with this kind of reporting from around the nation I know she is not exceptional and speaks to the siege mentality I alluded to.

By the way, we are not in her christmas list, trust me on that one. I will wear that as a badge of honor.

We ask tough questions and we will not take the sugar coating as gospel.

[Vinca]

151. That's about what I expected percentage-wise.

I wonder what the stats are re the percent of "bad" cops among all of the nations law enforcement officers. I would bet it's a fraction of 10%. There is another thing that has changed since my years as a police officer. Video games. Young people - mostly male - often spend hours and hours and hours mindlessly killing animated people. I have to wonder whether this somehow deadens their reaction to emotions they should feel when confronted with situations in real life. The bottom line is we have become an increasingly violent society in nearly every respect. Maybe we're just reaping what we've sown. Thanks for the message.

[nadinbrzezinski]

153. You welcome

and while I do not believe myself they do, the society has become far more violent. Might be a line of research, including other forms of media.

You will rarely see actual blood and gore in news, we used for the record, why Boston photos were so shocking. But violence overall has increased in all media we consume. That includes video games.

[gopiscrap]

130. Almost every cop I know is just dying to shoot a "bad guy"

it's real ego boost to them. They can go and brag about it at the station to their other roid induced buddies. It lets them release some of that pent up aggression and anger and frustration over a different part of society that they don't have the mental tools to understand.

[Vinca]

133. You must live in a very strange place or associate with very strange people.

My experience was in the 1980's, and maybe mindsets were different, but of the hundreds of cops I met along the way in every branch of law enforcement I never met one who wanted to use his or her gun.

[Logical]

143. I would agree women cops are smarter and handle stress better. nt

[justiceischeap]

48. I think it's telling that the only "apparent" officer of color didn't take part in the beating

The black officer walks away at one point, then circles back in, I would assume to see if the white guys are done beating the suspect, then walks away again. Not once did I see him participate in the beating.

As far as the suspect... it's reprehensible that the Sheriff's department is withholding his location (at the time of the video anyway) and seemed more concerned about officers suffering dehydration than the man they beat so badly.

[ann---]

52. He didn't try to stop it, either

And, do you think he would have reported his fellow cops for this?
I don't. That is why i don't believe there are any "good" cops. Silence
is not golden.

[justiceischeap]

65. I wasn't asserting his righteousness as a cop

I was just stating a fact seen on video.

As far as reporting his fellow cops, probably not. We've seen time and again what happens to cops that report on other cops and it doesn't fair well for the reporter.

I was just glad to see that not all of the officers decided to pile on and beat this man when it's obvious that no one there would have said boo if they had. That tells me that at least one officer on that scene had some good sense and a decent bout of morality.

I wish all cops would report the bad ones, it would help, certainly but until that happens, if it ever does, I'm happy to note that one cop did not participate in the beating.

[one_voice]

83. My brother was a cop...

he was a good cop. He opened his mouth....not being silent can get a good cop killed. He wasn't killed, but he was injured. He's no longer a cop, hey made sure of that. There are good cops. He worked with some, they had his back, thank goodness or I wouldn't have a brother anymore.

While you're busy railing against cops, understand that there are good cops out there, that do fucking speak up, and you also understand what they risk when they do.

[romanic]

49. If we can't trust cops

who can we trust, surely not the gangs or criminals that roam the streets? It's a question that's gonna be on everyone's mind when it comes to law enforcement and lawlessness in general. I hope something will be done to get rid of corrupt cops in the system, but what that "something" is, I don't know.

[ileus]

50. remember only cops should have guns...

[jeff47]

85. Feel free to provide links to instances where lawful citizens

shot police officers and were not killed, injured or charged.

[Orsino]

55. I'm done insisting that the bad apples are vastly outnumbered by decent officers...

...and am leaning toward those who advocate just clamming up and cooperating passively.

I also recognize that police brutality and disregard for human and legal rights are symptoms of a society whose terms we've allowed Big Money to dictate. If we want good policing, we will have to find a way to fund police departments fully, to include internal and external checks on their power. We must pay officers well to do a goid job, then detect and expel the corrupt and lazy. Finally, we must lobby our governments to regulate their behavior.

[valerief]

56. Fucking monsters. nt

[treestar]

59. You're finding the worst and blaming the whole profession

or assuming they are all of the worst.

Tell me your profession and I can do the same thing.

[Savannahmann]

64. The number of good cops are few and far between.

By good, I mean they won't cover up or stand for abuse or lies. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025980528

Their reward is almost universally to be punished for not standing firm on the Thin Blue Li(n)e.

This is a long compilation video, and it takes serious stomach medication to view it all.

This is what is happening on our streets. In our names, for our "protection". This is what is going on, this is the reality that most of us don't want to admit. This is but one video of thousands. How many don't get heard about because there is no video, and all we're left with is the story the Police tell, and they're good people, they have no reason to lie.

Death, brutality, viciousness that would make the Stazi proud. This is what is really going on in our country. This is why the Police are them, and why I don't trust them.

No other profession has such power over people. Truckers don't, and doctors don't. The night manager of a convenience store can't murder, brutalize, or bash people, and get away with it. The best you can do is offer a false equivalency and hope no one takes you up.

Fine, tell me how Truck Drivers are mostly going around abusing people. Tell me how train Engineers are really psychopaths with power to murder people in cold blood. Tell me about the ambulance driver who delivers dozens of kicks to the groin of a man on the ground in total surrender. Tell me about the school teacher who lies and says she was in fear of her life and fired thirty nine shots into a car with two unarmed men in the front seat.

Because all the false equivalency can do is show how a trucker broke the rules. How the Doctor was a quack. But here's the thing. Truckers report on those who are breaking the rules. Doctors are exposed by other doctors. Train Engineers who break the rules and cause a crash are held in contempt by their peers. All the while Cops are defended by their brother officers, and protected by the union, and if the DA investigates, it will go away nice and quietly.

[treestar]

139. Well I don't know what is to be done about it

I see a lot of condemning and no suggestions for improvement.

If one doctor is a quack, why don't we assume they all are? Aren't they all out for money? Some are, so must they all be. And yes they do protect each other. It's tough to do a medical malpractice case, because you have to find a doctor willing to testify.

And I don't believe cops never ever never turn in other cops. You could find some if you looked.

Our society is very violent, too.

[cherokeeprogressive]

76. I'm a trash man. I drive a truck called a front loader.

I spend my time driving up to commercial dumpsters with enough precision that my forks go into the pockets on the sides, pick them up... over the cab, and dump them in the back. Three times a day my truck fills up and I go to a place called the "transfer station". From there it goes off the mountain I live on.

Take your best shot... there is already one poster here who claims I'm rich because I bought a house. See me sticking my chin out? Take a swing.

[uponit7771]

90. I am NO DOUBT blaming the whole profession for not implementing steps to hold these people

... accountable when they do wrong, the cops aren't the jury or the judge.. they arrest...

Not beat and harm

No FUCKIN DOUBT.... I'm holding them ALL reesponsible for this kinda shit

[ncjustice80]

117. Thats because the whole proffession is rotten to the core

Every local officer nationwide needs to be fired, and replaced with (unarmed) community moderators. In the event of a real emergency like a school shooter, state/federal authorities can be called in.

[dumbcat]

60. I have also, somewhat reluctantly, arrived

at the same conclusion. I don't think I will ever again be able to trust a cop.

[lib87]

61. This is Nothing New

People just didn't want to believe police brutality happened to people who didn't 'deserve it'. Thanks to video, some have to start believing that excessive force is reality.

[Dont call me Shirley]

62. All skinheads, wtf!

[RoccoR5955]

84. Lock the bastards up...

and take away their steroids!

[uponit7771]

91. They will all get a raise and paid vacation

[stage left]

92. Me, too.

I hope some of these thugs will be going to jail. I hope that's what happens to the two in South Carolina also.

[Liberal_in_LA]

95. the between the legs kick

[fleur-de-lisa]

155. That made me absolutely sick . . .

and I'm a female. I don't know why that one action affected me more than the other abuses the cops heaped on the suspect. I guess because it was such a cheap shot. I know the suspect did some horrible things, but damn, their treatment of this guy is inexcusable.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

101. I still think there needs to be a national LEO blacklist database you get entered into when you

are terminated (or allowed to resign) after an abusive, violent episode. No more of these jerks shuffling from city police to state police or state police to county jobs. You get ousted for attacking someone, whether someone in custody or anyone else, and you never work in law enforcement again.

[ncjustice80]

118. DOJ should handle all use of force investigations, fuck local DAs.

Stringent criminal penalties for any officer who gets convicted of violating civil rights.

[ZX86]

107. This victim is a real dirt bag.

On a prior domestic call, McMahon said, Pusok “made threats to kill a deputy sheriff and in fact shot a puppy in front of part of his family."

...

Pusok’s previous brushes with the law span more than a decade through several counties in California, according to public records.

He pleaded no contest to felony attempted robbery in a 2006 incident as well as to several misdemeanor charges, including disturbing the peace and animal cruelty. In December, he was charged in San Bernardino County with a misdemeanor count of resisting arrest; he pleaded no contest.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-deputies-kick-man-pursuit-20150409-story.html

I really have no sympathy for him. Having said that the deputies behavior is in no way excusable. They need to be fired, charged, convicted, and incarcerated.

[gopiscrap]

131. That's bullshit you fucking cop apologist

prior behavior of the suspect has nothing to do with this instance of the cops trying to murder him. If the suspect was pointing a gun at them or threatening them in any way then different story. How ever the suspect was prone on the ground and defenseless and that is exactly when pigs begin to salivate and go in in the kill.

[ZX86]

145. I'm a cop apologist?

Because I don't care for a person who would shoot a puppy?



Did you miss the part where I said the deputies should be, "fired, charged, convicted, and incarcerated"?

[RedCappedBandit]

138. Your lack of sympathy is not germane to the conversation. nt

[ZX86]

146. That's a matter of opinion.

I think a person who would shoot a puppy should be called out for their behavior. I'm funny that way.

[Logical]

144. WTF does it have to do with the cops beating him?????? nt

[ZX86]

148. Not much.

But to ignore that this guy is no angel is to ignore the complexity and reality of the situation. I'm for free speech as well. Just because I support the free speech rights of the KKK doesn't prevent me expressing revulsion at the vileness of their message.

[Logical]

149. You are like the people who made sure to point out Michael Brown stole some cigars before....

the cop killed him.

We all know what you are doing.

[ZX86]

150. No you don't know what I'm doing.

Some people can process more than one concept at a time and recognize the complexity of a situation. The way Mike Brown treated that shop keeper was disgusting. Seeing him shot and killed from an encounter that started as a jay walking incident is even more disturbing.

[BlueStreak]

108. Just saw network news segment villainizixing Walter Scott. Completely misses key points.

They were making a big deal about Scott having a warrant out for unpaid child support. This is the same problem with the Ferguson shooting. Brown wasn't an angel either. But the point is there is a proper way to deal with child support deadbeats. And gunning them down in cold blood isn't the right way.

When I was growing up many decades ago, there was a program simply called The F.B.I., and its main purpose was to glorify everything the FBI does. The FBI has their own problem with disproportionate use of force. But back in those days, that TV program at least showed cops trying to wing the bad guy or shoot him in the knee. You never, ever saw any depictions of cops unloading 12 rounds on a guy who is already on the ground bleeding to death, and then walking over to put handcuffs on the dead guy as if to underscore that even dead, he was still a mortal threat to everybody. Even though this TV program was J Edgar Hoover's version of Fox News, the moral of the program was that it was the FBI's job to apprehend the bad guys and then let Lady Justice take it from there.

What a different world we have now. The irony is that the crime rates are not higher. We don't have a city scape that is out of control, requiring nothing short of military tactics.

The thing that is not discussed to any significant degree by "big media", and the politicians they embrace, is the role that the militarization of America has played in turning so many police forces into robo-cops. If we dig into it, there is no doubt we will find that many police forces are now dominated by men who did 3 or 4 tours in Iraq or Afghanistan, and that is where they learned to kill everybody dead and ask questions later.

This is what we have to deal with as a nation. It isn't so much a racial thing. The racial aspect comes from the fact that most of the troubled police forces are heavily white working in areas that are heavily minority. That just reminds them of their days in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I don't know if the individual officers in the most recent killings actually did time in the military. It doesn't really matter. What has happened is an evolution within these police forces to a war zone mentality. You don't have to fight in Afghanistan to get sucked up into that hysteria.

[ZX86]

110. The status of the suspect/victim is immaterial.

I don't want cops who feel they have the authority to deliver beat downs like that pulling me or my loved ones over for traffic violations.

[fleur-de-lisa]

141. Don't let the lack of information stop you from making silly statements.

"I don't know if the individual officers in the most recent killings actually did time in the military. It doesn't really matter."

How quaint that you jump to that conclusion. Don't let the lack of information stop you from making silly statements.

[bowens43]

112. To be fair to the cops .. it is very difficult to kick a man while he is running.......

[GETPLANING]

114. Bullies and cowards in body armor.

[IronLionZion]

123. I don't like where this is headed

Last edited Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

this kind of stuff does lead to distrust and animosity on both sides, which causes more of this sort of behavior. It discourages good people from even going into the profession, and it encourages bad people who are wanting to do more of this.

Catching it on video helps bring it to light for now, until they start going after witnesses.

It is quickly spiraling downward. I don't know what's the solution. But it looks really bad with no hope of getting better anytime soon.


edit: spelling

[romanic]

132. You summed up how I feel about this.

The distrust of law enforcement will encourage both "bad seeds" to bloom in the profession while causing lawlessness to rise in the face of "authority". I still believe there are good cops out there and I refuse to blame the entire profession since that's taking the easy way out; but I do not want bad cops roaming the streets with the gangs and predators and what have you roaming along with them.

[Catherine Vincent]

124. Downright disgusting!

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. Internal investigation... and FBI civil rights investigation

the ten officers are all now on administrative paid leave. It has also now gone quite national, thank you very much.

Here you go.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/10/us/california-san-bernardino-police-beating/

[cherokeeprogressive]

127. +1,000,000

[NutmegYankee]

135. Administrative paid leave, AKA, Vacation!

Last edited Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

I bet they're taking their families to Disneyland.

[nadinbrzezinski]

154. Well this is SOP

[hobbit709]

134. I quit trusting the cops in 1968.

[libdem4life]

152. LA County Sheriff is worse than LAPD...how could we help empower locals by introducing

the non-profit www.wecopwatch.com They sent teams to areas to help them set it up...or so I read. I don't know they get their funding, but since we are somewhat of a depository of national police abuse, perhaps this is something we could do to assist.

I thought this an interesting example of their POV...


Donate

Please support the ongoing work of WeCopwatch in Oakland, Detroit, Ferguson, Missouri, and beyond!

WeCopwatch.org is a vital resource which provides an information clearing house to Copwatch and Know Your Rights information.

WeCopwatch has zero bullshit overhead.

"Thank you for your contributions! "

I don't have money to send, but I can make phone calls and try to get their information to the victim's family and attorney...maybe give some help?