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niyad

(113,315 posts)
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 12:34 PM Apr 2015

Feminism doesn’t mean a battle of the sexes, but a common goal for all

Feminism doesn’t mean a battle of the sexes, but a common goal for all

Those who worry that the advances for women’s rights mean disempowering men have it all wrong. Feminism is for all of us, because the inequalities we face are all related


Holding the door open for a woman is not a crime.



Looking out over a sea of hands on a recent school visit, I felt a warm rush of elation at the sight of every single pupil raising their arm to affirm that they were a feminist. Except that’s not quite what happened. In fact, when I asked everybody who was a feminist to put their hand up, the result was a paltry scattering or hands – 20% of the assembly hall at best. So I asked the pupils to raise their hands if they thought everybody should be treated equally regardless of their sexuality, and every hand in the room went up. I asked them if everybody should be treated equally regardless of skin colour and, again, the response rate was 100%. Finally I asked them to put their hand up if they thought everybody should be treated equally regardless of their sex. Everybody in the room raised an arm.

“If you have your hand up now”, I explained, “then you’re a feminist. That’s what feminism means.” Apart from a few horrified boys who snatched their hands down in dismay, the general reaction was one of bemusement. Several kids asked if boys were allowed to be feminists, and others protested that they couldn’t possibly be, since feminism meant wanting women to defeat, overtake, or generally beat men into submission.

It’s not surprising that these outdated and false stereotypes persist, given their stubborn repetition in the media and across the internet. In fact, there seems to be a huge amount of anxiety about the current resurgence of feminism and what it might mean for men. In the past week alone we have seen wails that the sacking of Jeremy Clarkson points to an “emasculated” BBC, articles proclaiming that UN statistics on sexual violence unfairly malign men, comment pieces that declare the “real” everyday sexism in the UK to be against men; even Russell Crowe mourning “the loss of traditional masculinity”.

What’s strange is that often at the heart of this panic is an entirely false dichotomy. First, such arguments suggest that tackling issues such as sexism, street harassment or domestic violence somehow precludes action on problems that disproportionately affect men. The idea that the fight for gender equality somehow erases masculinity or disempowers men seems to be strangely insulting to any man whose sense of identity doesn’t come from being offensive to women. Feminism doesn’t mean doors can’t be held open any more,or the end of flirting, or that men should never again pay a woman a compliment. That’s simple human kindness we should all show one another regardless of gender.

. . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2015/mar/27/feminism-battle-sexes-womens-rights-men

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Feminism doesn’t mean a battle of the sexes, but a common goal for all (Original Post) niyad Apr 2015 OP
How could anyone not agree with that basic principal? AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #1
fear-driven, woman-hating cretins??? niyad Apr 2015 #2
and man-hating harpies. closeupready Apr 2015 #3
right on schedule niyad Apr 2015 #4
what a very thoughtful contribution to a discussion of feminism. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #5
were you at all surprised at that contribution? niyad Apr 2015 #6
Like the post it responded to. n/t Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #7
It's wrong to insult explicit sexists who oppose women being treated as equals? geek tragedy Apr 2015 #10
perhaps mercuryblues Apr 2015 #8
FYI Sissyk Apr 2015 #9
False equivalence by two jurors. Nice. n/t Gormy Cuss Apr 2015 #12
We have people here who equate misogyny/sexism with feminism. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #13
are we surprised? niyad Apr 2015 #16
Could you be more specific, not sure of your meaning? AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #14
Sure. (and for the benefit of juror #7 above "wow.") closeupready Apr 2015 #21
No doubt, you'll expound on your seemingly irrelevant (at best) response... LanternWaste Apr 2015 #18
It involves giving up authority and power. Gormy Cuss Apr 2015 #11
I think the problem is people need to recognize that while men may have some issues, ncjustice80 Apr 2015 #15
one would think that would be fairly obvious, but, apparently, it is not. niyad Apr 2015 #17
Agreed. ncjustice80 Apr 2015 #19
On balance, I wonder if the term itself has been more helpful or harmful to the cause Orrex Apr 2015 #20
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. what a very thoughtful contribution to a discussion of feminism.
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 12:56 PM
Apr 2015

Though you probably should have been a little more subtle and used a similar phrase like "feminazi"

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
10. It's wrong to insult explicit sexists who oppose women being treated as equals?
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 01:07 PM
Apr 2015

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that gender equality was a controversial goal outside the Phyllis Schlafly crowd.

mercuryblues

(14,532 posts)
8. perhaps
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 01:06 PM
Apr 2015

it is people who fear having to compete on a level playing field. Perhaps it is fear that men will find their true value when women are treated the same and that scares the shit out of them. If having a penis isn't special, then what is?

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
9. FYI
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 01:06 PM
Apr 2015

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Wed Apr 22, 2015, 12:49 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

and man-hating harpies.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6548814

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

misogynist disruption--trolling a feminist thread with explicitly sexist language

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 22, 2015, 12:58 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The equivalent of "woman-hating cretins". Censor both or neither.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This was a gratuitous insult in response to the prior gratuitous insult. They cancel out.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Troll
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Wow! I usually like this poster but wow.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
21. Sure. (and for the benefit of juror #7 above "wow.")
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 02:06 PM
Apr 2015

I consider myself a feminist in the terms defined in the story; but in response to feminists (like the one I was responding to) who imply that the primary impediment to women's advancement is 'women-hating cretins', I posit that, even though I can't dispute (and actually support) her claim, man-hating harpies (like the feminists who posted last month that, essentially, boys don't matter) also alienate men who would otherwise enthusiastically support feminism of the form defined by the op-ed's author.

I wouldn't have posted that randomly; it was posted tit-for-tat in response to her own offensive bullshit.

Peace.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
18. No doubt, you'll expound on your seemingly irrelevant (at best) response...
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 01:45 PM
Apr 2015

No doubt, you'll expound on your seemingly irrelevant (at best) response.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
11. It involves giving up authority and power.
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 01:08 PM
Apr 2015

All social equality struggles are exacerbated by the reluctance of those with power to share it and often, it's abetted by a reluctance to acknowledge the inherent power imbalance.

ncjustice80

(948 posts)
15. I think the problem is people need to recognize that while men may have some issues,
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 01:41 PM
Apr 2015

Given that they hold all the power in society, whatever issues they jave are frankly minor and irrelevant compared to what women face. That is why it is feminism and not humanism.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)
20. On balance, I wonder if the term itself has been more helpful or harmful to the cause
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 02:04 PM
Apr 2015

Last edited Wed Apr 22, 2015, 10:50 PM - Edit history (1)

The principles are self-evidently correct and frankly unassailable, yet the false perception lingers that feminism is inherently a pro-women-only movement, as confirmed in the article.

Is it essential that the term feminism be retained if, as shown in the article, the term serves as a barrier to the embracing of its principles?

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