Thank Representative Grand Theft Auto for the TPP Security--And Reid and Pelosi.

[msanthrope]

Many, many DUers have commented on the "injustice" of Senators and Reps. having to babysit their staffers while they review the TPP. Many have noted that staffers should be able to review the documents unfettered.

Well, the USTRO already tried that. And Darrell Issa's staffer stole an entire chapter of the agreement, and posted it online at his website.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/darrell-issa-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal_n_1521035.html

And what did the Democrats in Congress do? Did they censure Issa? Ask for criminal proceedings against the congressman and his staffer? Reprimand him in any way?

No--they complained they weren't able to leak provisions!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/25/trans-pacific-partnership-documents-sherrod-brown-jeff-merkley-ron-wyden-robert-menendez_n_1624956.html

So if a Congressperson is complaining about TPP security protocols, I have to laugh, and wonder at the hypocrisy. Apparently, it's easy to bash the President, but not one Democrat in Congress had the spine to correctly note that one of their own colleagues precipitated the increased security. Reid and Pelosi? They did nothing. And now Democratic members want to complain about the President, rather than take on Issa?

If I were President Obama, I'd be irritated that my fellow Democrats like to conveniently bash their own---whilst allowing Republicans to escape responsibility.

[joshcryer]

1. Christ almighty.

See, when I originally heard about this shit, I laughed it off, because, you know, common sense tells you a staffer should be able to get a copy for their Representative. It's not that big of a deal. But then I learn that, in reality, there's a damn babysitter. It blew my mind at the time. I mean I couldn't comprehend it.

But now I see what's happened here. Republicans fucking with the damn committee process, ruining things for the committee (committees tend to, you know, like their private doings kept private), get to get away with it scot free. And because of their actions, Democrats aren't able to get copies of the drafts, because the Republicans fucked them over.

No wonder Obama is so pissed off about this. I'd be pissed the fuck off, too.

[msanthrope]

2. Well, I was puzzled by it. But then I realized that Obama doesn't get pissed off, lightly. So I

did some digging.

And 20 seconds on the google answered the question.....WHY do staffers need a babysitter? Because Issa already got his staffer to leak, AND NOTHING WAS DONE ABOUT IT.

In other words, the Congress refused to police Rep. Grand Theft Auto.

THANKS, OBAMA!!!!

[joshcryer]

3. Issa (or his staffer) should've got 5 years for that crap.

He didn't even bother to invoke Speech or Debate, he just posted it to his website.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7213

So, literally a felon in waiting (he can still be charged for it) screwed the whole process up for everyone and not a damn Congressperson complained about it. I bet if you put pressure on the staffer he rolls on Issa in a heartbeat.

This is cronyism to the highest degree.

[msanthrope]

4. It puts the Bernie Sanders' letter into its proper hypocritical, historical context, doesn't it?

I mean, not for anything, but here's Bernie, complaining that his staffer--and putative campaign manager (Matt Stoller)--can't read the TPP. A whole DU thread on it---

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/10026048131

Of course, does Bernie, the Independent, take on Issa, and address the prior security breach?

Nary a word.

[joshcryer]

7. It's pure fucking cronyism.

I don't say that lightly. Warren, Sanders, everyone bashing the oversight, including people on internet forums, are fucking part of the problem.

cronyism
noun cro·ny·ism \-nē-ˌi-zəm\

: the unfair practice by a powerful person (such as a politician) of giving jobs and other favors to friends

Issa is getting a favor by not a damn person speaking up about his felonious behavior. Issa could've done the honorable thing, invoking Speech or Debate, and I bet that the documents could still be viewed and copied by staffers to this day, but no, he went and committed a felony which his fellow congresspeople didn't give a shit about.

Unlike you (perhaps?) I do think this is partially Obama's fault, he should've made a call to Holder, Holder should've seen what was happening and investigated, but Obama's a reasonable man and didn't want to rock the boat. And that's why he's so pissed off. I mean think about it, he had to have had a staff meeting about what Issa did, at least a memo. No wonder he's pissed off. No wonder he's playing defense and not backing down.

Obama's been ratfucked his whole presidential career. And he sees it happening yet again.

[msanthrope]

11. Why do you think Issa hit so hard on Benghazi? I suspect Issa knew he could be in trouble, and

Benghazi was just another way of forestalling any investigation. I would not surprise me if House Ethics or DOJ had already started an investigation, and then Issa decided that Benghazi was a way to protect himself.

If Obama had investigated him openly, it would have been seen as retaliatory, Nixionian, right before the 2012 election---in fact, I think Issa timed the leak precisely so that it might affect the election.

Yeah--what Sanders and other politicians are doing is pure cronyism....for Issa.

You remember the fake email scandal? Issa's latched on to that....


http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/darrell-issa-hillary-clinton-personal-email-use-2012-116992.html


Remember well who carries water for whom.

[joshcryer]

15. House of Cards stuff here.

It really is. I almost am impressed. I'd be actually impressed if people were paying attention. But you already see people who don't care that a Republican triggered this entire mess. They probably admire Issa for his "transparency," even.

But yeah, I understand Obama not doing it before the election, but I think deep down he didn't think it was worth it, he's not that kind of vengeful person.

[msanthrope]

29. I suspect Issa is headed for a fateful crash with the Clinton machine. nt

[joshcryer]

33. Yep.

I think 5 years is the minimum statute of limitations. 2017 could be an interesting year.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

226. That little everything punk prick. And now THIS

But of course 99.8% of America will never know.

[Luminous Animal]

70. He published a draft that had already been leaked the previous year.

There's no evidence in the article, or anywhere else that I can find, that he or his staff stole or leaked anything.

Darrell Issa Puts Old Leaked TPP IP Text Up For Discussion
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120515/11044018927/darrell-issa-puts-old-leaked-tpp-ip-text-up-discussion.shtml

We've written a few times now about Rep. Darrell Issa, and the Madison platform his office has set up to allow for crowdsourcing opinion on legislation and other government documents. He originally used it for his OPEN Act, but then later posted the text of ACTA as well. His latest move is to post the leaked text of the US's negotiating position on TPP. This is the same text that leaked out last year. It would be nice if the USTR did something like this itself with the latest text, but that's not how USTR Ron Kirk works. To him "transparency" is only sharing the text with big industry special interests, and declaring it a matter of "national security" if anyone else wants to see it.

[MannyGoldstein]

140. This entire OP is about revealing facts in a way that implies linkage of things

that ain't linked.

[joshcryer]

145. Pay not attention...

...to the man behind the curtain.

Issa has been fucking with the process for too long. And he's not getting any damn criticism by the supposed progressives. Pathetic.

[MannyGoldstein]

151. So are you claiming the following?

1. The TPP text was freely available to members of Congress
2. Issa abused his privilege by leaking a copy he'd gotten this way
3. The White House then clamped down on access to TPP drafts?

BTW, I have zero use for Issa. Less than zero. Much less.

[joshcryer]

154. No.

1. The TPP was available to members of Congress through usual channels.
2. Issa leaked a document and meddled with TPP using his powers.
3. The White House / USTR extended the channels as to which TPP was available, but put a babysitter in there to keep more Issa-style leaks and send a message.
4. Democrats got annoyed and, falling for usual Republican tactics, complained loudly about they not having the access that they want (which they didn't say a damn word about before, because "the usual channels" are quiet, send a staffer in, get a copy; Brown proved that in his own complaint about this BS).
5. Republicans then turn Democrats on themselves thanks to Issa's meddling in the committee process.

Here's the question, if you don't think Wyden, Brown, et al, had access before Issa's leak, why did they wait until after the clamp down to make it an issue? Because they could send a staffer down there and get a copy and no one would ask questions, that's why. Brown even was blown away by the inability of his staffers to get copies after the crackdown.

[Luminous Animal]

152. The OP smears 4 democrats. Pay no attention to woman behind the curtain.

[MannyGoldstein]

153. Pretty disturbing stuff, it seems.

Based on the # of recs, people get the sense that it's largely BS. Perhaps someone should write an OP with specifics.

Issa is vile bit of nastiness, but using him to bludgeon good Democrats is crap.

[joshcryer]

157. This is a substantive post.

The unsubstantiated shit gets recs.

[joshcryer]

156. I smear every fucking Democrat that didn't say a word about this.

Every single one of those cowards. This is cronyism. As designed. Issa should've got reprimanded. His actions are unfaithful. His actions caused the USTR to enact insane policy.

[Luminous Animal]

160. Link please that this insane policy did not exist before the OP's fantasy.

[joshcryer]

162. I don't have to.

Wyden and Browns complaints after the clampdown prove it. They were annoyed they couldn't use usual channels to get confidential documents. The confidential rating is the lowest possible, you don't even need a background check, it's basically a word of mouth web of trust. "Hey Congressperson X, may I have accesss?" "Sure, send a staffer any time you want, but remember, we want to keep what's going on private."

Issa: "HAHA"

[pa28]

187. Sure you do. When you make a claim like that you need to back it up.

Especially when the entire basis of the OP hinges on that claim.

Read Wyden's letter. He says his staff could not get access after more than two months of trying which puts it before the Issa leak.

As the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee’s Subcommittee on International Trade, Customs, and Global Competitiveness, my office is responsible for conducting oversight over the USTR and trade negotiations. To do that, I asked that my staff obtain the proper security credentials to view the information that USTR keeps confidential and secret. This is material that fully describes what the USTR is seeking in the TPP talks on behalf of the American people and on behalf of Congress. More than two months after receiving the proper security credentials, my staff is still barred from viewing the details of the proposals that USTR is advancing.

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/blog/post/iycmi-wyden-statement-introducing-congressional-oversight-over-trade-negotiations-act

Staff did not have unfettered access before the Issa leak. The OP is wrong and your post appears to be an effort to rewrite history for your own purpose.

[joshcryer]

191. The "usual channels" may not be unfettered access.

The complaint was not made until after the changes to the process happened.

[Luminous Animal]

192. What changes? Members of both the Senate and the House, in 2012 made claims that they

never had access. They both pointed out that the only members to have had access, ever, were those who were members of the Congressional Oversight Committee (COG). A committee to which Issa did not belong. Issa was a member of an entirely different committee. The Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. The acronym for Issa's committee is NOT House COG. The acronym is COGR.

Really, what would House COG stand for? House Committee on Oversight and Government? No such committee exists. House Congressional Oversight Group? No such committee exists.

Neither you nor Msanthrope have provided a shred of evidence that access was broader before the 2011 leak despite requests for one.

Both you and Msanthrope are making it up.

[joshcryer]

204. How many members of congress...

...have open access to other members of congress confidential committee paperwork? You don't get that access without having an understanding with those on the committee. What happened was after USTR cracked down the complaints began, because they saw it as an opportunity to get open access to another committees paperwork. Rather than having to use usual channels, rather than having to make agreements with other congresspeople, rather than having to be in the know or have a mutual understanding about access.

The point is the confidential rating is super low, that people can make copies with the right clearance, and the usual channels were obviously open, because no one was making any complaints until after Issa's antics. They can't come out and say "hey, we get the paperwork through usual channels," because they're not technically supposed to. They wouldn't want their committee confidential paperwork in the wrong hands.

The "usual channels" is code language.

[Luminous Animal]

205. The USTR cracked down? Please link to ANY evidence that access was looser before 2012.

I have requested this over and over again an not one person will provide a link.

They and you just say it as if it makes is so.

The only info that google provides during the years on 2011 and 2012 is grumblings form House and Senate members is that they have no access.

Both you and Msanthrope refuse to provide any evidence… ANY… that Congressional access to the process was open to any member outside the Congressional Oversight Group. A committee of which Issa was not a member.

Msanthrope flat out told me that she will not provide a link. You won't provide a link. WTF.

Your post is just a pile of word salad to the issue at hand.

On. On edit. See my post #190

[joshcryer]

206. Can you provide a letter from before Issa's antics?

How do you explain why the calls for transparency came out after Issa's antics?

I'm not privy to the inner workings of the USTR committee, but something happened, prompting the letter to be sent by Wyden et al.

The confidentiality agreement signed by TPP partners doesn't disallow congresspeople from getting access. There's no problem with them getting a copy from someone on the committee or quietly seeking access.

But all these public admonishments I have not seen until after Issa's crap.

Issa did the leak and called for openness May 5th 2012, Wyden et al sent their letter June 25th 2012. Why weren't they making waves before that? Why weren't they making waves when the initial IP part of the document leaked? Do you have any letters to the USTR going back beyond Issa's anctics?

I refuse to believe that they couldn't use usual channels before. And I think that's why they put in the babysitter, to placate those whose access got screwed up. You can insult me all you want. The stuff that politicians discuss openly is nothing compared to the crap they're doing privately amongst one another and within their own committees.

[Luminous Animal]

207. Can you provide a link that Congress had access? In fact, the letters from the House and the Senate

state they never had. And Wyden, when promoting his bill to provide access states that they never had. Never.

That is the evidence.

You, on the other hand, provide nothing but speculation.

[joshcryer]

208. You never have open access.

Because committees don't hand it out. But the confidential classification makes it such a low bar you can still get a copy by talking directly to someone on the committee or someone who knows someone.

I bet Wyden wouldn't want people leaking Banking committee confidential paperwork either.

If there was going to be a letter to USTR about transparency it should've been when the IP leak dropped, but instead they waited until almost two months after Issa started his antics.

[JonLP24]

215. Wyden does have regular access to some highly classified stuff

Just the other day he brilliantly talked about classified info when he was disagreeing with the former Counter-terrorism Director of the CIA. He was able to mention problems, solutions, and questions in a way that wasn't too revealing. Reading between the lines the most said was Pakistan had more info than they let on that would have been helpful in locating a previous humanitarian aid workers that were kidnapped that an informant or somebody could have helped & he was questioning if more couldn't have been done or done in a way that was improved reminding him that "we talked about this". All on PBS Newshour.

The idea TPP is more secret than the Pakistan ISI is crazy, he pointed out he wasn't suggesting open sharing with the Pakistan ISI but in comparison to what the US is providing we should expect, demand, etc more for the level but of course, he couldn't say more of what was on his mind on a national TV broadcast except the Pakistan angle for obvious reasons mainly because its classified, not that any of it would put us at risk as the Al-Qaeda know what the spies are up to more than we do.

[joshcryer]

147. Then I'm sure he and his staffer would be open to an investigation.

And I'm sure that Democrats and political junkies would support such an investigation.

Regardless the USTR obviously changed their procedure as Wyden and others noted in their complaint to the USTR. And it was after Issa's antics. So Issa is to blame whether you want to admit it or not.

[Cha]

86. Thank you for doing the Digging, msanthrope! There's so much hysteria around here about "Secrecy!"

and ignorant bashing of the President.. it's like mob rule with pitch forks and torches.

[Luminous Animal]

99. Issa was never on the Congressional Oversight Group on Trade. Thus he had no access to leak

to anyone.

He was on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform (which does not address trade issues) which has been in existence since 1816. The Congressional Oversight Group was established in 2002.

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is comprised of House members only. The Congressional Oversight Group is comprised of members of both the House and the Senate.

Specifically,

In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).

(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/3807

[msanthrope]

183. So, you are claiming this Committee does not exist, and did not investigate TPP, Benghazi, and isn't

currently investigating HRC's email server?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

[Luminous Animal]

201. House COG does not exist. The acronym for the committee that Issa sat on is COGR.

Really. What would House COG mean? House Committee on Government? That committee does not exist. House Congressional Oversight Group? That committee does not exist.

What does exist is COGR. Committee on Oversight and Government Reform of which Issa was a member and a committee which never had access to TPP documents in 2011 or 2012.

[delrem]

5. I see. Secrecy regarding the TPP is the Republican's fault.

Because they're evil.

And it somehow isn't what you're defending.

[msanthrope]

6. Well, Congresspeople having to babysit their staffers is Issa's fault. Note that neither Warren or

Sanders--or heck ANY Congressperson wants to address the prior security breach.

[delrem]

8. Except the problem is the continued secrecy.

Since Pres. Obama is going public with a statement that Elizabeth Warren is "wrong", he should make the TPP public right now. Continued secrecy is what is wrong.

Now you can continue to blame the problem on the Republicans, whose staffers aren't so well disciplined as the Democratic ones.

[joshcryer]

9. You don't get it.

Before Issa's stunt anyone could've got a copy of the draft TPP stuff. After his stunt, they put a babysitter in there, to keep congresspeople from making copies and leaking them. Every single committee has material rated confidential. That material can be viewed by any congressperson, but not by the public, because it has negotiations and policy proposals ongoing.

This happened with net neutrality, everything was confidential, until the final rulings were made public. People complained about it. When the final ruling was made public there wasn't a peep by the detractors about how it was evil.

[delrem]

19. I get it. You like it, that the TPP is still classified.

You like it that it isn't matter of public record and that Warren and Brown and the rest of the Dems who want to talk about the contents of it, can't. And you want to blame it on the Republicans, not on yourself.

[msanthrope]

23. The TPP should be classified until it's final. We have 11 other nations involved, and they rely on

our secrecy to make this happen. When it's final, then everyone gets to talk about it. That's how representative democracy actually works.

The Iran deal was classified. So were the Cuban negotiations.

[joshcryer]

24. I like that we'll have 60 days to protest it.

I'm not concerned that it's conditional like literally every piece of government policy work.

And I think Issa is to blame for the babysitter the USTR has put in there. And I think if you want to dismiss Issa's involvement, you're just carrying water for ratfucking republicans.

[still_one]

102. Actually, I think it is up to 90 days

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. Thank you ...

this pulls together something that has been nagging at me since the "it's that, it's secret" narrative, has taken root in DU ... The circular nature of the argument, suggests it is manufactured on the fly.

1) TPP is bad ...

What makes you think it is/will be bad?

2) (Someone told me) the leaked documents have stuff we won't like ...

Okay, but there is no way to verify that the leaked documents are current, or even, valid because the negotiations are secret.

3) Exactly! Why are the negotiations secret? Not even our Senators can see the documents. It must be bad ...

But it's not secret. Any Senator that wants to see the draft proposals, can.

4) Well, the Senators (that I trust) that have seen it, that are criticizing the negotiation's secrecy, say it has stuff we won't like ...

Like what?

5) That's the problem; it's secret so they can't tell us. We D. People need to be able to see it ...

Okay. There are literally 1,000s of negotiations and policy proposals ongoing that no one seems to care about being handled the same way. What's different here?

6) Go to #1

[djean111]

10. Actually, what is happening is that somehow all of this will be blamed on Warren and Sanders, so

they should STFU and stop making waves. The actual TPP will be conveniently ushered out of the spotlight.
Prediction - Warren and Sanders smears all day long. That's how Washington rolls.

[joshcryer]

12. No, Issa deserves rightful blame.

Warren and Sanders merely fail to provide that blame, and thus are not immune from criticism.

[Luminous Animal]

75. EFF, Public Citizen, Doctors Without Borders, etc., all wrote about the leak a full year

before Issa posted the document on his website.

http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/TPPApunchlist_18may2011.pdf

http://www.citizen.org/documents/analysis-of-leaked-US-paper-on-eliminating-pregrant-opposition.pdf

[MannyGoldstein]

141. Posting facts means you are a Republican operative

and stuff.

This whole thread is nuts!

[MannyGoldstein]

142. As far as I can tell...

The methane released from the BS in this thread could power a small city for a few days.

More to come.

[Luminous Animal]

148. Yes. Nuts. And four democrats were smeared by the OP.

[delrem]

13. Well yes. Just upthread, it's blamed on their "cronyism".

Really.

This from ardent HRC supporters who, perhaps tomorrow or next week, will pretend that HRC and Warren are totally copacetic, that HRC has all of Warren's cachet for just Warren's reasons. Genuinely nice people all around.

[joshcryer]

17. You don't think it's cronyism for congresspeople...

...to turn a blind eye to felonious behavior?

[msanthrope]

18. Just holding feet to the fire. Even Warren's. nt

[delrem]

22. You lit a straw man. And that's all you've got. nt

[msanthrope]

25. You seem to want to forget Issa's involvment with TPP leaking. Why? nt

[Iliyah]

178. Because anything negative against the President of the United States

of America, President Obama, warrants its venom. The negativity and dislike supercedes no matter what.

[msanthrope]

180. Check out downthread--we are now supposed to pretend Issa never headed House COG, never investigated

TPP, Benghazi, or the ACA, etc.....

the ODS knows no bounds.....

[msanthrope]

14. Warren and Sanders share the blame with every other Congressperson who didn't call out Issa. Plenty

of malfeasors there.

But it's Issa who is primarily at fault here. Perhaps I am just holding feet to the fire on Warren and Sanders.

[Buns_of_Fire]

16. Issa is the closest thing to a Luca Brasi the house has.

That said, the question still hangs out there about why all the security in the FIRST place.

[msanthrope]

20. Any trade deal that involves 12 nations is going to have massive security, and will be secret

until the final draft. That's the way it's always been done.

Apparently, security was lax enough to allow the Issa breach.

[Jesus Malverde]

26. Lulz

[msanthrope]

28. You compliment the Notorious S.I.D. when you copy him.

Thanks for the kick.

[Jesus Malverde]

31. Just playing with the neocons

[msanthrope]

34. Bravely, you face "neocons" with smilies? Indeed, Sir Robin! nt

[Jesus Malverde]

38. Who is sir Robbin?

I'm not hip to that meme,

[msanthrope]

41. You youngsters. No appreciation for fine culture.

[Jesus Malverde]

44. Do you remember Woodstock

Woooooo!

[msanthrope]

45. Apparently, I was there. nt

[Jesus Malverde]

46. Lol

[joshcryer]

27. It wasn't lax, Issa just shit on the trade committee.

And they retaliated.

People normally respect the "confidential" rating.

Unless you're ratfucking republicans who know you can get away with it due to cronyism and cowardly democrats.

[msanthrope]

30. As they should retaliate. Too bad no Congressperson took Issa to task for being the bad apple. nt

[joshcryer]

35. +1

I almost wish you didn't find this. I'm way more bitter than I was a few hours ago, heh.

[msanthrope]

39. This is why I miss Prosense. She would have found it, months ago...as soon as the babysitting

talking point was floated.

Heck josh...at least we're bashing Republicans....

[pampango]

32. Heck, republicans accused FDR of 'secret tariff agreements' and they were just bilateral deals. n/t

[msanthrope]

36. Right--I thought FDR Democrats liked reciprocal trade agreements? FDR sure did. nt

[pampango]

43. It would seem that some "FDR Democrats" part company with their mentor on trade issues.

Others of us do not.

Just imagine if Obama revived FDR's International Trade Organization and submitted that to congress. DU would explode. Not only did involve 20 countries with secret negotiations but it would have restricted our national sovereignty in areas like labor rights, business regulation and others.

I wonder sometimes if many here would be happier with a redux of the Harding/Coolidge/Hoover era of the repeated raising of tariffs. Hey, it coincided with (causation or correlation?) the Roaring Twenties - and an historic level of inequality. FDR reversed that and many other policies he inherited from that republican trio but that is another story.

[msanthrope]

47. Those who forget history.......nt

[joshcryer]

52. Bretton Woods Conference

Would it be that FDR implemented Keynes' International Clearing Union as opposed to the World Bank and IMF.

NLRB needed some work, too. But I won't go into that now. I am just saying, even the icon FDR made mistakes. For good or for bad. Nobody is perfect. I wish we could recognize that in our debates.

[Buns_of_Fire]

37. I understand the reasoning behind the secrecy. I just don't LIKE it in this case.

"This case" being the number of corporations and other vested interests having such intimate contact with the process.

[msanthrope]

40. I like the idea of the 500 entities--it included labor and environmental in the top tier....

The access isn’t exclusive to industry. The heads of the United Steelworkers, Teamsters, United Auto Workers and the United Food and Commercial Workers unions sit with top corporate executives on the same presidentially appointed trade panel — the top “tier” of a an advisory system that includes around two-dozen committees.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trade-deals-a-closely-held-secret-shared-by-more-than-500-advisers/2014/02/28/7daa65ec-9d99-11e3-a050-dc3322a94fa7_story.html

[Cha]

90. That's a lot more than many on this board.

[Iliyah]

182. Many hateful thread which gets over the top rec'ds

Thoughtful threads and informative threads and threads that focus on current events such as the 7.8 earthquake in Nepal doesn't.

Where are the concerned masses? Have we become insensitive like the counter-parts?

[joshcryer]

21. It wasn't there in the first place.

Issa's stunt caused them to enact new policy. Before anyone in congress could've got a copy of the draft proposals. Including staffers.

If you want to know why stuff is rated confidential, committees don't want people interfering in their actions. It would gum up the bureaucracy more than it already is.

[Buns_of_Fire]

48. But if there wasn't a problem before, then Issa's staffer taking a copy for his

boss shouldn't have been a problem in the first place. Or it wouldn't have been if Issa weren't so interested in grandstanding and demonstrating how powerful and important he is.

I can see why the House won't bother with any disciplinary actions. They're probably afraid their car might wind up missing.

[joshcryer]

53. It wasn't taking the copy that was the problem.

It was posting that copy publicly that was the problem. Once he breached confidentiality, rather than putting Issa in chains, they just put a babysitter in the USTR office with the running drafts of the legislation.

The committee had no recourse as far as I can tell, since the congresspeople didn't get rid of the problem, namely: Issa. The committee saw that congress didn't care about leaks so it tightened up the ship. If Issa was arrested or at least reprimanded for his behavior (stripped of all committees, left out of discussions) then the committee at least might have gone on forward without taking strict measures. But Issa didn't even get a slap on the wrist, didn't even get chastised.

I actually feel sorry for the trade committee at this point, because they had little recourse. Only way they keep their negotiations private is to tighten up the ship. Congress, the House and Senate, are to blame for this. They let a potential felon get away with releasing confidential information.

[99Forever]

42. The entire text SHOULD be posted on line. ALL of it, Every fucking word.

If it weren't such a democracy and job killing PIECE OF SHIT REPUBLICAN 1%er rape of working Americans, they wouldn't have to hide it from PUBLIC view, then fucking ram it down our throats.

[msanthrope]

50. And it will be. Once it's final. nt

[99Forever]

57. Too late then.

No thanks.

Transparency throughout the entire process or no sale. PERIOD.

Frankly I don't give a turd who does or doesn't like that.

[msanthrope]

68. take it up with the founding fathers then.

the authority to negotiate with foreign powers resides with the executive not with the legislative branch.

[99Forever]

71. Screw the "legislative branch."

Have fun with that bullshit strawman you constructed.

I have only interest in what We the People have complete, unfettered access to when it directly affects OUR lives.

Apparently YOU think that access should be limited to a privileged few. A corporate few, their lobbyists and their shysters.

FUCK THAT!

[ucrdem]

49. . . . and Warren took the secrecy ball tossed by Issa and ran with it

like Romney ran with the Benghazi ball until he fumbled it at the second debate. Basically "secrecy" and variations on the theme are the only points Warren makes in the Maddow interview:

Interesting.

[msanthrope]

51. I've seen that interview. I am disappointed Warren did not discuss the prior

security breach. As for Maddow, well, she's a journalist.

[ucrdem]

54. Curious how she stuck to that talking point.

Isn't it.

[joshcryer]

55. Like msanthrope said, Obama doesn't get pissed easily.

(she said when he gets pissed she doesn't take it lightly)

This is some House of Cards level bullshit.

If Warren and Sanders aren't reading this site today and don't come out actually pointing the finger where it belongs, at Issa and his confidentiality breach, I will have lost a little bit more respect for them.

I feel like an utter fool for not realizing, yet again, a Republican instigated shitty policy. Yes, it's shitty that the USTR has to babysit congresspeople. But I understand now why they are doing it.

[ucrdem]

56. I don't think he has much choice.

He knows his chain is being yanked and if he wants to save this bill he's got to yank back. So watch out yankers.

[stillwaiting]

58. Howzabout I criticize the whole lot of 'em?

Every person mentioned in this article is partly to blame.

Issa should have been dealt severely with, and the TPP process should have been much more transparent.

[joshcryer]

61. Yep.

[HereSince1628]

59. Even if it happened, it require that such leaking can't be a heroic act against opacity.

It's effect certainly isn't keeping the R's from supporting the trade agreement.

[Thinkingabout]

60. I am not sure some understands the process of negotiations and I therefore

am waiting for the final draft to make my decision about TPP. If we have the rumor mill continue as we have now with the "leaks" then we end up with death panel talking points.

For those who wants transparency, this could be taken to far levels and I don't think the public wants all of their information available for everyone to see. Putting limits is not a bad thing to do.

Thanks, misanthrope for your post. I know it will not stop the rush to judgment but the rest will understand.

[Depaysement]

62. Really?

How exactly would the Dems get a censure vote to the floor of the House, let alone get it passed? How would they start "criminal proceedings?" It's a meaningless and hollow threat.

And which Dem is going to complain that Issa released a chapter if that Dem wants the whole thing released, like many do? None.

The President wants an up or down vote on the whole thing and doesn't want to go back to renegotiate because that may kill it. He thinks it's good for the country because it increases trade and protects US IP. It also boosts his legacy and some very powerful people want it. It isn't about that car thief Issa.

[msanthrope]

64. Easy....start with filing a House Ethics complaint. And you are right....

the Democratic senators wanted it released so now they can't complain when the security regulations require them to babysit their own staffers.

they played and they lost. they let Issa get away with a crime, and in doing so they made the process less transparent not more.

[Depaysement]

77. Not easy

No chance that gets out of Committee. The security regulations are absurd; what exactly is in the potential bill that requires security clearance? Nothing.

The President can release all of it. He doesn't want to. The people have a right to know. That's what Warren and Sanders and Brown are saying. That doesn't make them "dishonest." And Barack knows that all too damn well.

[msanthrope]

80. Let me see if I have you correctly....No one should file against Issa because

it's too difficult?

And no....until the President has a final deal with 11 other countries, he can't release it. That's why they haven't, either.

[Depaysement]

87. It would never get out of committee so why bother

The guy withou a job with two legs blown off in Iraq who comes to my office gets my time. Not Grand Theft Auto, as you rightly call him.

The President can release what he wants. He isn't bound by any protocols.

[Autumn]

63. It's all becomes clear, it's nothing about the Democrats or the Republicans. It's all about Obama.

Hell, fast track and the TPP don't even make the grade.

[Baitball Blogger]

65. Our government never learns.

Last edited Sat Apr 25, 2015, 10:19 AM - Edit history (1)

Somehow they think we reincarnated as rugs. Rugs get walked on and have no memory of the trampling. But we do remember. And for some of us, the lack of trust comes from the way the process was gamed. In other words, put more eyes on the TPP papers because America's future is counting on it to be ironclad.

I don't want to hear someone in the future say "We didn't know. We didn't see it. No one anticipated that interpretation." Or it's cousin excuse: "We were snookered."

[SidDithers]

66. I won't hold my breath for the Third-Way Manny thread complaining about Issa...

Thanks for posting this. It's too bad that DU's perpetually outraged wont expend the effort to understand it.

Sid

[randome]

72. From the perpetually sarcastic, IOKIYAR.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[Cha]

89. No shite.

[Luminous Animal]

69. Actually, he published a draft that had already been leaked the previous year.

The article states that it was a draft that it was a draft that had already been leaked. And nowhere does the article assert that Issa or his staff stole it.


Darrell Issa Puts Old Leaked TPP IP Text Up For Discussion
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120515/11044018927/darrell-issa-puts-old-leaked-tpp-ip-text-up-discussion.shtml

We've written a few times now about Rep. Darrell Issa, and the Madison platform his office has set up to allow for crowdsourcing opinion on legislation and other government documents. He originally used it for his OPEN Act, but then later posted the text of ACTA as well. His latest move is to post the leaked text of the US's negotiating position on TPP. This is the same text that leaked out last year. It would be nice if the USTR did something like this itself with the latest text, but that's not how USTR Ron Kirk works. To him "transparency" is only sharing the text with big industry special interests, and declaring it a matter of "national security" if anyone else wants to see it.

[msanthrope]

73. Defending Darrell Issa's actions is, I had hoped, beneath you, LA. And techdirt isn't telling

the whole story---Issa tried leaking parts of the chapter through back channels, hoping that it would get picked up. No one touched it. So when he got no traction, he published the entire chapter on his public forum, in time for the election.

He then claimed it wasn't illegal for him to do so, because of the prior leak that his own staffer was behind. No one in the Trade Office bought his bullshit story. And that's why Congresspeople have to babysit their staffers.

Frankly, I think any DUer who believes anything that Darrell Issa offers as an explanation is naïve.

On Tuesday afternoon, Issa published the entire intellectual property (IP) chapter of the Trans-Pacific agreement as drafted by the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, the White House agency responsible for negotiating trade deals. The document was previously available online through unofficial channels of questionable legality, but Issa's posting of the document dramatically increases the political pressure on USTR and the Obama administration.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/darrell-issa-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal_n_1521035.html

Apologia for Darrell Issa? Really?

[Luminous Animal]

76. I'm laying out the facts as I found them. Care to provide a link that an Issa staffer leaked the

draft.

Here is the link to the entire draft leaked a year before Issa posted it to his website.

http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/tpp-10feb2011-us-text-ipr-chapter.pdf

Here is analysis of the draft respectfully submitted in May 2011 by

Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) Health Action International—Global
Health GAP
Knowledge Ecology International
National Legislative Association on Prescription Drug Price* Oxfam America
Public Citizen
Universities Allied for Essential Medicines

http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/TPPApunchlist_18may2011.pdf

[msanthrope]

79. Again...you are defending Issa, who was behind the original leak. Do you think it

coincidental?

Darrell Issa....that's who you are defending.

[Luminous Animal]

81. Care to provide a link that Issa was behind the leak?

[msanthrope]

83. Sure....once you provide a link to back up your claims about Israel Shamir.

I'm still waiting on that one.

[Luminous Animal]

93. I can't cite anything he wrote for the Israeli publication. I don't speak, read

Last edited Sat Apr 25, 2015, 09:32 PM - Edit history (1)

or write Hebrew. But someone else cited him…

Given the canons of contemporary discourse, it depends on how we define the term. Israel Shamir, writing in the Israeli newspaper H'aaretz, recently said that anyone who objected to American global cultural imperialism could now safely be termed an anti-Semite

I won't give the link because I find the author, E. Michael Jones (writing for Culture Wars), repugnant. He was writing about Rabbi Dresner. That should be enough info to find it on your own.

Now, for your link.

[msanthrope]

104. You just used an anti-Semite repudiated by the Catholic League to bolster

your claims about another anti-Semite.

Why should anyone believe you in your defense of Darrell Issa?

[Luminous Animal]

123. I'm not defending Issa. I am defending Reid, Pelosi, Sanders, and Warren. Dems that you're smearing.

Link please, that Issa or his aide, leaked.

[msanthrope]

129. You just used an anti-Semite repudiated by the Catholic League to bolster your claims about another

Semite.

[Luminous Animal]

158. I provided the info you requested, And you said, if I did, you would do in return.

Link please.

[msanthrope]

161. You used an Anti-Semite, repudiated by the Catholic League....hardly a progressive

voice, to validate your link to another anti-Semite.

[Luminous Animal]

194. Progressive was not the standard. A citation was. I provided. I doubt you will

have similar courtesy.

[msanthrope]

219. are you going to admit that you were wrong about this Holocaust denier? nt

[Cha]

88. Of course "defend issa".. nothing will get in their way to bash President Obama. Nothing.

[Luminous Animal]

100. I thought this was about Pelosi and Reid? The OP is baselessly bashing them with flailing fabrication.

[msanthrope]

116. You are actually claiming downthread that this Commitee--House COG, does not exist---

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/224605-chaffetz-succeeds-issa-as-oversight-chief

[Luminous Animal]

125. Yep. There is no such thing as House COG. GOG, BY STATUTE, is comprised by members of the Senate

and the House.

Issa belonged to an entirely different oversight committee.

[msanthrope]

131. So Politico made up an imaginary Committee?

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/jason-chaffetz-house-oversight-113066.html

[Luminous Animal]

137. No. There are dozens of oversight committees. Issa was not on the COG committee.

He was on a House oversight committee established in 1816 and addresses domestic issues.

The COG committee that deals with trade was established in 2002 and is comprised by members of the House and the Senate.

Per statue:

(2) Membership from the House
In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).
(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.
(3) Membership from the Senate
In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall also be comprised of the following members of the Senate:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Finance and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).
(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the Senate which would have, under the Rules of the Senate, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

[msanthrope]

138. He was the chairman of the House COG. I provided you video of him in the Sandra Fluke matter.

As Chairman. Being questioned. Was the video faked?

Do you deny, STILL, that Issa, as Chairman of House COG opened up a TPP investigation?

[Luminous Animal]

139. He was chairman of Government and Oversight Reform. Which has nothing to do with trade and this...

he would have been barred from access to any top documents.

SANDRA FLUKE1111111!

Counselor, there is no such thing as a House COG but, please, provide a link to that TPP House investigation

[msanthrope]

167. Lemme see if I have this....you have dropped the claim that the the House COG does not exist?

Brava?

So are you now going to admit you are completely ignorant of the House COG investigation of the TPP?

In the spirit of transparency?

[Luminous Animal]

170. Nope. Not once dropped the claim the House COG does not exist. It doesn't exist.

[msanthrope]

175. This Comimittee does not exist---and never investigated TPP, Benghazi, and the ACA?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

[Luminous Animal]

193. COGR exists. House COG does not exist.

Really. What would House COG mean? House Committee on Government? That committee does not exist. House Congressional Oversight Group? That committee does not exist.

What does exist is COGR. Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. A committee that never had access to TPP documents in 2011 or 2012.

[msanthrope]

221. Your War on Acronyms ranks up there with the time you accused me of plagiarizing

my own thread. it's funnier than your defense of Israel Shamir I'll give you that.....

[msanthrope]

117. At this point, we have posters claiming this committee--House COG, does not exist.....

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/224605-chaffetz-succeeds-issa-as-oversight-chief

[Luminous Animal]

126. Because it doesn't. COG, established in 2002 specified to trade. Issa's committee was established in

1816 and has nothing to do with with trade. Issa's committee is solely a House entity. The COG comprises members of the House and the Senate and has specific qualifications. None of which Issa qualified.

(2) Membership from the House
In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).
(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.
(3) Membership from the Senate
In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall also be comprised of the following members of the Senate:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Finance and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).
(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the Senate which would have, under the Rules of the Senate, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

[msanthrope]

132. So this committee, in which Issa opened up a TPP investigation, is imaginary?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

Tell me, LA...how is it that you are ignorant of Issa's TPP investigation?

[Luminous Animal]

146. There is not one word about any TPP or investigation, What. So. Ever. Is this a joke?

Again. Counselor.

He was on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform (which does not address trade issues) has been in existence since 1816. The Congressional Oversight Group was established in 2002.

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform (which does not address trade issues) has been in existence since 1816. The Congressional Oversight Group was established in 2002.

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is for House members only. The Congressional Oversight Group is comprised of both members of the House and the Senate…

Specifically,

In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).

(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/3807

[msanthrope]

159. And now you conceed the existence of a Committee you previously denied.

This is progress.

But your continued defense of Issa is not.

[Luminous Animal]

164. He did not qualify to be on the committee, I am defending Democrats. You aren tearing them down,

[msanthrope]

165. Lemme see if I have this.....You now acknowledge there actually is a Committee?

For which Issa is not qualified for?

[Luminous Animal]

168. Um…..

He was on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform (which does not address trade issues) has been in existence since 1816. The Congressional Oversight Group was established in 2002.


The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is for House members only. The Congressional Oversight Group is comprised of both members of the House and the Senate…

Specifically,

In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).

(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/3807

[msanthrope]

169. So you admit the Committee you claimed does not exist, actually exists? nt

[Luminous Animal]

171. Sigh, There are dozens of oversight committees. Issas committee is not GOC

House GOC does not exist.

You thought that you could take out 4 Democrats with on fell swoop.

[msanthrope]

177. This Committee--with a TPP investigation, a Benghazi investigation, etc....does not exist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

Darrell Issa, as head of this committee, was never taken to task re: Sandra Fluke?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/rep-darrell-issa-bars-minority-witness-a-woman-on-contraception-2/

That was just, what? Faked like the moon landing?

[Luminous Animal]

195. House COG does not exist. The acronym for the committee that Issa sat on is COGR.

Really. What would House COG mean? House Committee on Government? That committee does not exist. House Congressional Oversight Group? That committee does not exist.

What does exist is COGR. Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. A committee that never had access to TPP documents in 2011 or 2012.

[msanthrope]

222. I appreciate you walking back your claim that Issa didn't investigate TPP

and therefore had no access to TPP documents.......but I think your current War on Acronyms is a tad bit puerile. although I've got to admit it is crap loads funnier then your defense of Israel Shamir. I really wish you would clear the air about that particular person.....

[Cha]

149. Of course they are.. I've seen their denials in action before..

Denials and misinformation in feeble attempts to make their case.

I won't even engage or respond to some.. it's absurd.

[Rex]

74. And yet people blame Obama for 99% of the shit Congress does!

I've even blamed the POTUS, only to have someone point out...NO, Obama has nothing to do with that...you are mixing up his job and Congress!

I think after the 47 traitors, they just don't give a shit now...sadly the Dems are trying to figure out how far the insanity is going to go this year with Clown Car Issa and his fellow reprobates.

I don't blame the POTUS for going it alone, he has been handed a SHIT Congress for 6 YEARS!

FUCK EM!

[cascadiance]

78. He's also Representative Arson Insurance Fraud too!

But he'll remind everyone that the statue of limitations have run on that history too, that Corporate America has kept off the radar much like all of the security frauds on Wall Street that they are also going to claim the statue of limitations have run out for prosecuting for.

We just have to understand that the Department of Justice these days is very selective on which part of the American population their "justice" applies to.

[pa28]

82. In 2012 only the a few members of the Congressional oversight committee had access.

Most members of Congress and their staff were banned.

Here is Ron Wyden's statement on the issue:

In trying to get to the bottom of why my staff is being denied information, it seems that some in the Executive Branch may be interpreting the law that established the COG to mean that only the few Members of Congress who belong to the COG can be given access to trade negotiation information, while every other Member of Congress, and their staff, must be denied such access. So, this is not just a question of whether or not cleared staff should have access to information about the TPP talks, this is a question of whether or not the administration believes that most Members of Congress can or should have a say in trade negotiations.

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/blog/post/iycmi-wyden-statement-introducing-congressional-oversight-over-trade-negotiations-act

Your OP states that staff were allowed to view access unfettered before the Issa leak. Do you have anything to back up your claim?

[msanthrope]

84. Um...No..That's not what I wrote. Issa was on COG House. And he and his staffer leaked.

The Democrats response at the time was to complain, but not investigate, nor take steps to secure the leak.

The USTR response was to allow more access, beyond the committee, as Congress requested. But they had to babysit their staff. Too bad. So Congress got what they wanted three years ago.

[pa28]

85. Your OP says the USTRO's office tried allowing unfettered access but restricted it due to Issa.

In fact, staff was not allowed access until Wyden complained. Unless you have anything to back up that position it seems to me you've invented the basis for this OP.

[Luminous Animal]

96. It is almost certain that Issa wasn't even a member of the Congressional Oversight Group on Trade

during the time she claims one of his staffers leaked the document. See my post #95 below.

[msanthrope]

108. Are you kidding me? Issa is COG House....which is what I wrote....and that commitee does actually

exist, even though you think it does not....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

from that particular committee, Issa has run his investigations on TPP, Benghazi, and the fake HRC email scandal.....

How do you not know that this is Issa's seat of power?

[Luminous Animal]

200. House COG does not exist. The acronym for the committee that Issa sat on is COGR.

Really. What would House COG mean? House Committee on Government? That committee does not exist. House Congressional Oversight Group? That committee does not exist.

What does exist is COGR. Committee on Oversight and Government Reform of which Issa was a member and a committee which never had access to TPP documents in 2011 or 2012.

[Luminous Animal]

95. There is no such thing as COG House. In 2011, Issa was chair of House Committee on Oversight

and Government Reform which is not the same as the Congressional Oversight Group On Trade.

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform (which does not address trade issues) has been in existence since 1816. The Congressional Oversight Group was established in 2002.

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is for House members only. The Congressional Oversight Group is comprised of both members of the House and the Senate…

Specifically,

In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).

(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/3807

[msanthrope]

105. Holy frackin' crap---are you kidding me? First of all, COG House does exist----here it is....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

Now, from that particular perch, Mr. Issa has been issuing shit on TPP, Benghazi, and the fake email scandals for years. In this Congress, he has Amash and Chafetz, and Gowdy doing his dirty work?

HOW DID YOU FORGET SANDRA FLUKE?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/rep-darrell-issa-bars-minority-witness-a-woman-on-contraception-2/


How do you not know this? How did you NOT know that this is how Issa got the TPP documents?

[Luminous Animal]

133. COG House does not exist. COG is specific to Wyden's 2002 legislation that addresses trade.

Issa was chair to an oversight committee that existed since 1816 and had no access to trade agreements.

How do you not know this.

[msanthrope]

135. Are you actually denying that this committee--that Elijah Cummings is on, does not exist?

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/216470-subpoenas-under-rep-issa-top-100

[Luminous Animal]

197. House COG does not exist. The acronym for the committee that Issa sat on is COGR.

Really. What would House COG mean? House Committee on Government? That committee does not exist. House Congressional Oversight Group? That committee does not exist.

What does exist is COGR. Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. A committee that never had access to TPP documents in 2011 or 2012.

[riderinthestorm]

91. Issa simply re-posted an old leak. Who did the original leak?

your article certainly doesn't implicate Issa. Issa is re-hashing an old leak.

Nice try though...

[Luminous Animal]

97. Issa wasn't even on the Congressional Oversight Group on Trade so he would have no access.

He was on a completely different oversight group that has nothing to do with trade.

[msanthrope]

109. How is it that you are completely unfamiliar with COG House--to the point of denying its existence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

Darrell Issa has run his investigations of the TPP, Benghazi, and HRC's emails from that perch for years. Now, he uses Amash and Chafetz to do his dirty work----

How is it that you are apparently completely ignorant of the endless subpoenas that Issa has issued over the course of the Obama administration?

How did you NOT KNOW that Issa was investigating the TPP?

DID YOU FORGET THIS----

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/rep-darrell-issa-bars-minority-witness-a-woman-on-contraception-2/

[Luminous Animal]

199. House COG does not exist. The acronym for the committee that Issa sat on is COGR.

Really. What would House COG mean? House Committee on Government? That committee does not exist. House Congressional Oversight Group? That committee does not exist.

What does exist is COGR. Committee on Oversight and Government Reform of which Issa was a member and a committee which never had access to TPP documents in 2011 or 2012.

[Aerows]

92. Make it public

Let the public know what they are voting on.

That's all President Obama needs to do to clear up the "dishonesty".

Step up to the plate.

If the TPP isn't a shitbag that We the People are about to get our faces shoved into, as MANY Democrats have stated, then it should be extremely easy for President Obama and the Republicans who are in love with it, like Paul Ryan, to prove!

Any time a Republican is in LOVE with something to do with our economy, I am instinctively wary and highly suspicious of it. As should anyone that has been breathing since Reagan, or capable of reading about Reagan and the path to economic hell.

[Number23]

94. You have provided some really great info on all of this. K&R

[Luminous Animal]

98. She provided shite. Issa was never on the Congressional Oversight Group On Trade in 2011 or 2012.

He was on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform (which does not address trade issues) has been in existence since 1816. The Congressional Oversight Group was established in 2002.

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform (which does not address trade issues) has been in existence since 1816. The Congressional Oversight Group was established in 2002.

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is for House members only. The Congressional Oversight Group is comprised of both members of the House and the Senate…

Specifically,

In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).

(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/3807

[Number23]

101. After all of your posts in this thread, is it really necessary for you to accost every single person

that dares to try to get a word in around your many, many posts? You think that msanthrope posted "shite" whatever the fuck that is, but I stand by my earlier post. I mean, if that's okay with you?

[Luminous Animal]

103. No. It is not okay because Msanthrope smears Pelosi and Reid on a complete fabrication.

How in the hell could Issa leak a document to which he had no access? How can you praise a post that is based on falsehoods?

The full and complete document was leaked in 2011 and posted on the internet. It was leaked to a economic and social organization. Many other organizations analyzed it.

In 2012, about a full year later (give or take a month), Issa posted the document… already in the public domain and discussed

Pelosi and Reid would have looked like fools to try to censure him for posting a document already in the public domain and discussed for an entire year.

Warren and Sanders would look like fools for taking Pelosi and Reid to task if they criticized them for not censuring Issa for posting a document already in the public domain and discussed.

Then she claims that a staffer took it. No link. Nothing.

Then she claims that he was on the House Congressional Oversight Group. NO SUCH GROUP EXISTS!!!!

Msanthrope is a very intelligent woman. Some things she posts are great and some things she posts are shite.

The OP is shite.

[msanthrope]

114. Issa had the documents because House COG had a TPP investigation going full throttle. How did you

not know that Issa was the chairman of that committee?

How can you claim that there is no House COG?

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/224605-chaffetz-succeeds-issa-as-oversight-chief

Did you forget Sandra Fluke?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/rep-darrell-issa-bars-minority-witness-a-woman-on-contraception-2/

[Luminous Animal]

127. How can I claim there is no House COG on trade because there isn't. The COG on trade is Senate AND House.

Issa was a member of a House oversight committee that had nothing to do with trade.

The members of the COG are thus:

(2) Membership from the House
In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).
(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.
(3) Membership from the Senate
In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall also be comprised of the following members of the Senate:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Finance and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).
(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the Senate which would have, under the Rules of the Senate, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

[msanthrope]

134. Are you actually saying that Elijah Cummings is on an imaginary committee that did not have a TPP

investigation?

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/216470-subpoenas-under-rep-issa-top-100

[Luminous Animal]

196. House COG does not exist. The acronym for the committee that Issa sat on is COGR.

Really. What would House COG mean? House Committee on Government? That committee does not exist. House Congressional Oversight Group? That committee does not exist.

What does exist is COGR. Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. A committee that never had access to TPP documents in 2011 or 2012.

[riderinthestorm]

106. Then let me accost you. She's posted fabricated garbage. Made it up.

Sorry the actual facts are getting in the way of the lies and that some of us want to correct the record.



Issa nor his staff could have been the source of the leaks but don't let that fact stop your parade. It says more about you by refusing to acknowledge the reality of the timeline.

[msanthrope]

111. Actually....I'm amazingly surprised that neither you nor Luminous Animal seem to remember that

Mr. Issa used his perch on House COG to start investigations on the TPP, Benghazi, and any other thing he was interested in. Issa got his TPP documents through his Chairmanship and spurious investigation.

Remember when Issa used House COG to investigate the ACA and contraception?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/rep-darrell-issa-bars-minority-witness-a-woman-on-contraception-2/

Issa currently uses Chafetz, Amash, and Gowdy to do his dirty work on House COG.

Your defense of Issa is pretty illuminating.

[Number23]

118. No, it says more about the absolutely PANICKED responses you and your pal are making

racing up and down this thread. You have posted in it almost as much as the damn OP!

If you think what's she's posted is wrong then state that clearly and MOVE ON. That's really all you need to do. Badgering everyone that comes into this thread is making you look way too... er, invested in this.

[riderinthestorm]

202. I've got 2 posts in this entire thread and I'm the one panicked??!!

to however many posts of yours and msanthrope (sic)



That's actually pretty hilarious.

And yeah, now I have 3 posts on this thread - still laughing at how wrong you and your pal have been proven...

[Number23]

210. The panic was in the number of posts from your pal and your needless reponse to me

Which you've now decided to add onto. For some reason.

Msanthrope has made her case beautifully and really embarrassed you and your pal. And not for the first time either. And the only reason I had as many posts as I did was because of you and your buddy running around jumping on people and making spectacular spectacles of yourself. And not for the first time either.

[riderinthestorm]

213. Misanthrope can't even keep the timeline or committees straight

Somebody's a spectacle here that's for sure.



Im loving your ocd need to tally posts like that makes your point more valid - very amusing! Even more so when someone whines about a person actually participating in a discussion on a discussion board - the last resort of desperation. Im off to bed with a chuckle. Thanks for that. Rage on into the sweet night

[Number23]

214. There's no rage, dear. You've gotten that as accurate as your summation of msanthrope's timeline

If you recall, I made the simple post of "hey good info, msanthrope. Thanks" to which you and your rageaholic pal decided to leach onto with the utmost of gusto. Ah, projection. The last refuge of the pointless.

It's pretty clear that the OP has a very good handle on her timeline and info. Just take the spanking and move on.

[msanthrope]

115. Note--Luminous Animal is actually claiming that the commitee that Issa chaired does not exist......

I'm not kidding......

This committee---

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/224605-chaffetz-succeeds-issa-as-oversight-chief

[Number23]

119. We both know I'd take your word over the likes of the others running up and down this thread

any day of the week and twice on Sunday on the absolute worse week. Though hopefully they've at least burned a couple of hundred calories for all of their hard work in this thread.

[msanthrope]

120. I know it, and I appreciate it. But I'm honestly stunned....to defend Issa, there is now the claim

that House COG does not exist.

And that House COG didn't investigate the TPP. So I guess the whole Sandra Fluke hearing fracas never happened. Or Benghazi.

And Jason Chafetz heads up an imaginary committee....

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/224605-chaffetz-succeeds-issa-as-oversight-chief

Edited to add---all this, to defend Darrell fucking Issa.

[Number23]

121. Well, I mean if it's okay with the squatters in this thread, I'd like to reiterate my earlier post

You've posted some great info and it is much appreciated.

Hopefully, my simple words of thanks won't set off any more tizzies.

[msanthrope]

122. I thank you.....and I'm off to walk my lovie mess of a dog and laugh my ass off......nt

[Luminous Animal]

198. House COG does not exist. The acronym for the committee that Issa sat on is COGR.

Really. What would House COG mean? House Committee on Government? That committee does not exist. House Congressional Oversight Group? That committee does not exist.

What does exist is COGR. Committee on Oversight and Government Reform of which Issa was a member and a committee which never had access to TPP documents in 2011 or 2012.

[Luminous Animal]

128. Issa's committee is not called COG. COG was established in 2002. Issa's in 1816.

Two entirely different oversight committees.

[msanthrope]

136. Are you actually denying that House COG does not exist? Is Elijah Cummings lying?

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/216470-subpoenas-under-rep-issa-top-100

[msanthrope]

110. He was on COG House which has nothing to do with contraception, but how did you forget Sandra Fluke?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/rep-darrell-issa-bars-minority-witness-a-woman-on-contraception-2/

How do you NOT KNOW that Issa has been running investigations on the TPP, Benghazi, and fake email scandals for years through House COG? In this Congress, he has Amash and Chafetz and Gowdy running his current dirty work, but how in the hell did you not know that Issa used his perch on House COG to subpoena anything and everything he was interested in?

How in heck did you NOT KNOW that Issa got his TPP documents through his spurious investigations?

Tell me---HOW DID YOU NOT KNOW that Issa was investigating the TPP?

[YoungDemCA]

107. Hey, this wouldn't be the first time that people opposed to President Obama have broken the law...

....to "expose" Obama's "destruction of democracy."

Just ask the Putin regime in Russia, who have been more than happy to harbor just such a person.

K&R.

[YoungDemCA]

112. To clarify the issue of whether Issa was responsible for initially leaking the document: No, but....

On Tuesday afternoon, Issa published the entire intellectual property (IP) chapter of the Trans-Pacific agreement as drafted by the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, the White House agency responsible for negotiating trade deals. The document was previously available online through unofficial channels of questionable legality, but Issa's posting of the document dramatically increases the political pressure on USTR and the Obama administration.

A spokeswoman for USTR told HuffPost that it works to keep nonprofits abreast of its negotiating position, and that it has expanded the number of groups it receives input from under Obama -- including public health groups, internet freedom advocates and major labor unions. Nevertheless, any organizations that are able to see actual negotiation texts must comply with USTR confidentiality rules limiting public disclosure -- a policy intended to improve the agency's ability to reach a deal.

"Putting text of a partially negotiated agreement online could weaken the hand of U.S. negotiators as they work strategically to get the best deal possible for American workers and businesses," USTR spokeswoman Carol Guthrie told HuffPost. "Moreover, USTR could not release the agreement text without breaching its commitment to its trading partners not to do so without their agreement."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/darrell-issa-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal_n_1521035.html

So in a nutshell: Yes, Issa/his staffer posted what had already been available online-illegally. The laws prohibiting such leaks didn't change. But don't expect Republican officials to follow the law in their zealous attempts to undermine a Democratic President. This has always been about undermining President Obama.

What Issa did gave every indication that members of Congress are willing to play politics to such an absurd extent-even to the extent of breaching ethical and legal boundaries, and derailing delicate international negotiations-all to undermine the current President of the United States.

No wonder President Obama is pissed. No wonder, indeed!

[msanthrope]

113. actually--Issa was responsible for the initial leak. House COG had those documents because of their

TPP investigation.

[Luminous Animal]

124. Link please to the committee known as the House COG.

[msanthrope]

130. Already did, upthread, with video of Issa being asked why House COG would not host Sandra Fluke. nt

[Aerows]

150. Refresh my memory

Sandra Fluke had/has what to do with trade agreements?

I've probably sat on the plane next to somebody that listens to Rush Limbaugh, but I didn't catch Rush Limbaugh "cooties" just because I sat next to them.

Is this what the argument is boiling down to now, "You have cooties!"?

[Luminous Animal]

155. Nope. No such thing has house COG. You are confusing a House domestic oversight

committee with a Senate and House trade committee

[msanthrope]

163. You, madam, are pretending that Issa's House COG simply did not exist.

That is unfortunate.....since actual video exists of that committee, linked above.

[Luminous Animal]

166. You, something or other, are pretending that the House COG exists. It does not. Link please.

[ucrdem]

172. This quibble has no bearing on the OP which makes no mention of said committee.

Just so you know.

[joshcryer]

174. Yeah

It's obvious Issa's actions caused a clampdown which damaged the usual channels of information dissemination. The OP is all you need to know. No complaints about TPP information before Issa's meddling. After Issa's meddling, suddenly there's a babysitter and congresspeople not involved are upset.

[msanthrope]

181. For your viewing pleasure---apparently, I plagarized my own OP.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3040270

[joshcryer]

184. I remember well.

But your link is broken, fyi.

[msanthrope]

185. Fixed...nt

[msanthrope]

179. There was a time when Luminous Animal accused me of plagarizing my own thread, and threatened to

tell the Internets about it. I'm not kidding. She read a thread of mine about Greenwald that went viral on LGF, Balloon Juice, etc, and instead of realizing that *I* was being quoted, decided that *I* must have copied something off the Internets, randomly.....

So she threatened me, thinking she had me in a "gotcha" moment:

53. Congratulations on parroting a Little Green Footballs comment TO THE LETTER.

If the "internet" remembers that, then good. And when I can, I will remind the "internet" that you parroted a Little Green Footballs comment, DOWN TO THE DASH, without providing a link to back yourself up.

You are welcome.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023040270

Note that she never comes back to the thread after the Internet is explained to her? So denying that Issa was on House COG is kinda par for the course.....

[ucrdem]

188. Ah yes..

I wonder sometimes if the Green Guy doesn't browse DU and tweet his buds when he thinks of a good gotcha, leaving buds on the hook when they crap out. And speaking of VRWCs I have little doubt that we're discussing a bona fide Benghazi here, which I'm confident will shortly crash and burn just like the rest of them.

[Aerows]

143. So Issa is in on this, too

and Paul Ryan loves it, and Republicans are voting for it, and we're supposed to say "Yay!"

I think not.

But you get points for warping the very real concerns that Democrats in Congress and "the little people" have into ... "President Obama should be mad at all of us!"

That's a unique angle. Doesn't work, but you get an E for effluent.

[ucrdem]

144. Democratic former Mass. Gov. Deval Patrick joins Bain Capital

Democratic former Gov. Deval Patrick joins Bain Capital
By MJ Lee, Politics and Finance Reporter
Updated 10:59 AM ET, Tue April 14, 2015

New York (CNN)Former Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick has joined the private equity firm Bain Capital — a company co-founded by former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and vilified during the 2012 elections.

Patrick, a Democrat who succeeded Romney as governor of Massachusetts in 2007, left office earlier this year. As a managing director, Patrick will lead a newly created division that focuses on investment projects aimed at making "significant, measurable social impact," Bain said in a press release.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/14/politics/deval-patrick-bain-capital/

Small world ain't it

[Rex]

173. Wow after reading those epic sub-threads...yikes.

This link might help clear up some misconceptions about Congressional committees.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/committees/

[msanthrope]

176. Rex--respectfully, that won't clear it up. Once you start claiming that certain

committees don't exist, you aren't going to admit your mistake......

[Rex]

189. Yeah I did not mean LA

for people visiting this thread, it might help them understand better. I find it impossible for anyone paying even the remotest attention, to believe that someone did not know Issa was using his position on the COGR as a tool for bringing down Dems and ALL the dirty tricks he pulled!

FUCK EM! One of the best days ever, getting rid of such high profile trash. Now if we can just get rid of McTurtle and Boozer the House Crooner.

[Number23]

209. "you aren't going to admit your mistake" Nope, if anything hunker down deeper and keep accosting

folks even more! Even after they've told you to buzz off!

Because that's definitely a winning strategy for looking victorious and sane in an Internet discussion.

[msanthrope]

220. at this point I'm asking la to admit she was wrong about the Holocaust denier

she and I tangled on in a previous thread.....that's going as well as the fake War of the acronyms.....

[Iliyah]

186. Rough draft of TPP will be able for review by the public and congresscritters will be able

to read it line by line, and my gosh, they have to read thousand of pages, oh the horror. Nevertheless, the same posters here will complain and bash as usual.

Congresscritters will have the opportunity to vote. Nevertheless, the negativity from some posters will never change.

[Luminous Animal]

190. The long and winding road of misinformation….

The acronym for the committee that Issa sat on is COGR

Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
http://www.allacronyms.com/COGR/Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

It is solely a house committee and has been in existence since 1816. Msanthrope insists on misidentifying Issa's committee as "House COG". Why, I do not know. When I say that the House COG does not exist, I mean just that. There is no House Committee on Oversight and Government. Nor is there any House Congressional Oversight Group.

Msanthrope also claims that the COGR has investigated TPP. A google search and a search of their website reveals no such investigation.
http://oversight.house.gov/search/?q=transpacific&x=10&y=18
http://oversight.house.gov/search/?q=trans-pacific&x=19&y=16
http://oversight.house.gov/search/?q=TPP&x=10&y=16

The committee known as COG; i.e., Congressional Oversight Group, has only been in existence since 2002 created by the Trade Act which was introduced by Wyden. It's purpose is to work closely with the US Trade Representative. Issa has never been a member of the Congressional Oversight Group and thus not privy to any documents in 2011. As of 2012, the only members of Congress who might have seen or who might have had access were members of the Congressional Oversight Group. In fact, in 2012, 130 members of Congress wrote a letter to the USTR asking for consultation and broader access.
https://www.publicknowledge.org/files/TPP%20Letter%20FINAL.pdf

The Senate sent a similar letter and Wyden introduced legislation codifying access.
http://www.brown.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/with-trans-pacific-partnership-negotiations-set-to-continue-in-california-next-week-senators-call-for-increased-transparency-including-broader-consultation-on-internet-freedom

It appears that Wyden's bill did not make it out of committee
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/senate-bill/3225

The Congressional Oversight Group is comprised of both members of the House and the Senate. Specifically,

In each Congress, the Congressional Oversight Group shall be comprised of the following Members of the House of Representatives:
(A) The chairman and ranking member of the Committee on Ways and Means, and 3 additional members of such Committee (not more than 2 of whom are members of the same political party).

(B) The chairman and ranking member, or their designees, of the committees of the House of Representatives which would have, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, jurisdiction over provisions of law affected by a trade agreement negotiations for which are conducted at any time during that Congress and to which this chapter would apply.

It appears that Msanthrope is asserting (with absolutely no evidence) that Issa was the leaker because, in 2012, he posted on his website a TPP document that was leaked in 2011. She then goes on to assert that an Issa staffer took the bill. She also states that Issa (or a staffer… who knows, because she has provided ZERO evidence of any of there claims), that portions of the purloined document were dribbled out to see if they could drum up interest. Again, this is factually incorrect. The ENTIRE document was published online in early 2011. Many organizations analyzed it and also published their analyses online.

By the way, unless specifically directed by a relevant agency, it is not a crime to republish material in the public domain.

Reid and Pelosi would have looked stupid if they had pursued the matter. And no, Sens. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.), Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) and Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) did not complain that they were unable to leak provisions. A letter asking for broader access and the opportunity to confer with experts is not a plea to leak.

And, she states (again with no evidence), that Congressional access was looser prior to the leak. Given that members of both the Senate and the House assert in their letters that they've been barred from access, this is clearly a fabrication.

Finally, she uses all this misinformation to castigate good Democrats.

Unbelievable.

[Oilwellian]

211. Great work, Luminous Animal

Maybe now we can return to discussing the real reason why this administration has hampered Congress' ability to study this trade/investment agreement. I believe Warren when she says the reason why it is secret is because if the people knew what was in it, they would lobby Congress to kill it. And here we are.

[Rex]

212. Congress is kabuki theater on acid.

I'd hope anyone calling for heads, would remember the 47 assholes that tried to fuck over the WH during peace negotiations with Iran. Or maybe (if they are old enough) they were this pissed off during Iran-Contra when Reagan sat their and lied his ass off to Congress. Or when the BFEE told Congress to fuck off with their questions. Or when Clapper gave them the big middle finger. OR the CIA spying on the...or or or...fuck Congress is one dysfunctional POS.

Let's face it, I don't think Congress is worth much these days. I have no idea what the fight is between the two of you. I almost want to say it comes down to semantics. Issa is a snake, lower than a snake...he used his chair position on the COGR over the years to hurt as many people and groups as possible. All while lining his piggy pockets with who know how much cash.

Looks like his replacement is no better.

[msanthrope]

218. LA and I go way back. I once wrote something about Glenn Greenwald

She didn't like.....and it went viral across the internets.

LittleGreen Footballs posted it. LA went ballistic and spent an entire thread attempting to put me in a corner so she could accuse me of plagiarism. and that is exactly what she did she accuse me of..... plagiarism and threatened me that if I ever wrote anything about Glenn Greenwald again she was going to tell the entire internet that I had plagiarized my original post about him.

at that moment I then explained the internet to luminous animal......and how Little Green Footballs was actually thinking to my Op from Democratic Underground. as you can see from the original thread she slunk off and never apologized for accusing me of plagiarism in that thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3051961

apparently I also wrote something that shedidn't like about Julian Assange...... specifically about his employee Isreal Shamir who is a well noted Holocaust denier.


so I'm not surprised that she is in this thread defending Issa with a complex story about acronyms.
....
..

[Rex]

223. I doubt anyone was confused when you typed HCOG. Thanks for the explanation.

House Committee Oversight of Government, you just didn't add the Reform part. BFD. I was wondering why LA made such a huge stink!

That explains it and a lot more. I cannot believe the emotional baggage people place on Snowden and Greenwald. They made their own bed, fuck em!

That won't go over well, but at this point I don't care anymore. Snowden decided to go and hide behind a dictator, facts are facts. Fuck him.

[msanthrope]

224. I guess I'm lucky LA didn't accuse me of being homophobic with my acronym usage this time.

because there's this classic thread on acronym usage from LA.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024992409

I've actually asked a lady to put me on ignore I think it would be better for her.

[Rex]

229. I remember that and telling her I use GG just like I use HRC and so what does that mean?

Seriously, I've never been accused of being homophobic for using his initials. Didn't you get accused of something for using the word 'ratfucker' or am I mistaking you for someone else? Seems I remember some other weaksauce attempt. Might have been another poster.

[msanthrope]

230. No....I called GG a 'ratfucker' and the alerter claimed I was being homophobic. I got a hide.

Skinner expressed astonishment in Ata at that interpretation.

[msanthrope]

216. so far in this thread you've denied a committee existed and you've used an anti Semite

to bolster a wholly unsourced claim that a Holocaust denier once worked for a major Israeli paper and that's why he isn't a Holocaust denier.

Your defense of darrell Issa seems to center on the claim that the committee he chaired simply does not exist and did not investigate the TPP Benghazi the ACA or contraception. Or have you ,now started some explanation about acronyms that you got wrong? I haven't read past the first sentence of any of your posts.

do you remember the time you accused me of plagiarizing my own thread? Do you remember how that ended for you?

[merrily]

203. Why does this remind me of Jonathan Gruber/Obamacare?

http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-morris/jonathan-gruber-recorded-visiting-white-house-least-19-times

Oh, well, guess l'll never figure out that one.

But, when it comes to Democrats bashing other Democrats, Obama and his WH have not exactly been slouches, either.

[Marr]

217. God, if you're down to throwing Reid and Pelosi under the bus to defend Obama...

...he must really be out on a limb with this one.

Oh right-- he is. He's allied with the Republicans and big business on the TPP, against the Democrats.

[99Forever]

225. Bullshit

[msanthrope]

227. That's BS....in keeping with the War on Acronyms LA

started in this thread.

[99Forever]

228. Smells like bullshit, it's bullshit.