General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHere come the usual looting and rioting doesn't solve anything comments.
Sometimes ya gotta fuck things up before things change.
cali
(114,904 posts)And mobs are not a good thing. Innocent people often get hurt.
trumad
(41,692 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Mob of cops kicking a black kid... Pretty violent shit eh?
cali
(114,904 posts)speaking generally, mobs are bad news and innocent people frequently get swept up in mob violence and hurt.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)What happens to a dream deferred?
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)and the entire country is burned TO THE GROUND the first time a white guy is lynched for being white.
If the most that happens is what we are seeing, while bad and I hate it and it is wrong and all that, we are lucky.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Stellar
(5,644 posts)What's your point?
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)was talking out his or her ass in claiming that the country would be burned to the ground the first time a white person was lynched for being white.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)But what do you think would happen if a white person were to be lynched?
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Looked like a lynching to me. He's very lucky he wasn't killed.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)But, it was not a lynching on either one.
Thank goodness!
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)n/t
Stellar
(5,644 posts)it's there now. Lynching - is when they are hung by the neck until they are dead.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)By that criterion, Emmett Till wasn't lynched. Neither was James Byrd.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)lynch
lin(t)SH/
verb
gerund or present participle: lynching; noun: lynching
(of a mob) kill (someone), especially by hanging, for an alleged offense with or without a legal trial.
synonyms: execute illegally, hang, kill; informalstring up
"he was lynched by the mob"
kentuck
(111,110 posts)and settle the situation?
cali
(114,904 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Citizens throw rocks just hoping a helping hand will notice. The state uses live rounds just hoping the citizens shut up about the problem.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Such acts do more hard than good to the community.
People who work there are now out of work for a while and you know what?
That's fucked up.
I'll bet the people here who think it's some outstanding show of strength or sending some other god damned productive message don't live in neighborhoods like that or have jobs like those.
The OP message ignores the reality of the thing.
Protests should always be directed at the policy or place or persons that need to change, not the local retail outlet.
They're doing it wrong.
RVN VET
(492 posts)That strip of Baltimore was a disaster zone, total poverty and bleakness, 10 years ago. The city and business began building it up and it had reached a point where you could actually see the clouds parting and the sun coming out.
Now it's gone. CVS is not coming back. Target, if it got hit (and I heard that it had) is not coming back. The area has been destroyed. This was not a goddam protest. I know, NYC_SKP, you understand the situation. It wasn't a protest but a lot of people here foolishly -- yes, and stupidly -- want to characterize it as such. Hundreds of people are now out of work, many of them permanently because there isn't any place else for them to go. People who actually live in the neighborhood, people who were actually at the funeral, have been crushed by this b.s., totally and irredeemably. So for all those at D.U. who want to classify this looters's riot as some sort of political statement, come on down to B'more with your sanctimony and take a look around at the way the looters showed their respect for a true victim of police violence.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)...to express an opinion that this was somehow righteous and mighty.
No, it wasn't.
Thank you.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Sorry, my friend, but I disagree
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)...I'm not suggesting by any means that the people were unjustified in expressing their rage, not at all.
I am suggesting that this particular type of act has more negative repercussions than any good.
The negatives are lasting: the businesses may not return, there are fewer places to shop, fewer jobs, property values drop.
Possibly worst of all, it perpetuates the myth that these poor folks, victims of the system, somehow caused this and that they deserved it.
An organizer would have helped them channel their energy and righteous anger into an organized protest, gotten plenty of media, pro-bono lawyers, GOTV efforts, etc.
That this happened at all is an indication that they need to organize. I maintain that while they were right to be angry, the destruction of stores does more harm than good.
I'd be happy to listen to any explanation of how this was a helpful thing toward righting the wrongs against that community.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Where two people were fired, even after the DoJ found systematic racism and unjust practices abound?
It isn't working
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Dear marym625,
I left for a walk after my last reply to you feeling bad, that maybe I hadn't understood you or that I didn't make myself clear.
The tragedy with the destructive behaviors is that they end up destroying what little exists in the community that DOES work, that doesn't hurt them.
Months from now everyone will have forgotten this but the streets will still be ruined. The citizens brought down their own resources, they hurt their own community.
I didn't say anything about Ferguson but I'll say it now: I don't think that whoever came in to organize made much difference, organizing has to come from within, through school or church or other groups.
Such a body of residents can make a difference.
Now what I think would have been far better: If a CVS or other store must be damaged so that it gets media attention, why not do it in the neighborhoods where the asshole cops live?
Now I'm not really serious, but trying to make a point: bring it to the haters, bring something to them and keep your own neighborhood clean and intact.
Do you see what I'm saying?
And first, foremost and most importantly, I am sorry I upset you. Never my intention.
I have a post going where I am answering what you are saying in a bunch of replies. I would like you to look at it so you can see better where I am coming from.
The leaders in Ferguson were from Ferguson. Strong willed, intelligent kids that preached nonviolence. They met with leaders, they attended the meetings every week. They registered people to vote and they voted.
And nothing changed.
When you have 30% unemployment, pretty much across the country, for black men, for decades. When peaceful protest changes nothing, when police kill young black men every 28 hours, with impunity, and instead of arrest an "investigation" with a paid vacation and no apology. No arrest. No indictment. What is left to do? .
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Taking a bigger world view here, 10,000 feet up looking at all the shit that's going on.
The powerful few benefit from "identity politics" where groups focus so intently on their groups problems that they rarely come together.
"Ferguson? Yeah sure, but I want my health plan deductible to go down!" or something.
And, check this out, the worse it gets for, in this case, blacks and the medically infirm, the MORE FOCUSED they become, and kind of blind to the others' concerns.
BUT, we're all basically in the same war but with different battles: state and federal governments are too corrupt to do anything about Ferguson, or to fight the insurance industry on our behalf.
What I'd like to see, and I think it can be done, is for EVERYONE to get together and take this to the damn people who need to answer for it.
The sick, the unemployed, victims of bank foreclosures and police brutality, all together.
This can be an all-city thing or it can be at the state capitals or, dare I say, Washington DC.
United we stand, Mary.
And I stand with you and with Freddie and with Michael.
We won't shut up, and we won't sit down.
marym625
(17,997 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)going to post about CVS.
7962
(11,841 posts)From what I recall most of the protests resulted in no damage or riots.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Even on SI. The economics are different. So is the culture. Not "better," but different.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Conservatives value property rights.
When cops act like their job is to protect property and shoot humans (At least, the ones they think of as "less than" than the attack on property fits.
It reminds the police that their power is an illusion.
However, i understand that there is such a thing as counterviolence. Not that looting a CVS store represents that, but really, there are points where your options are literally fighting back or giving up. and if giving up is an option, why didyou bother in the first palce?
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)there would have been no violence in the street. Cause and effect. If the police don't do that, this will not happen. If they don't kill young people maliciously, there will be no reason for street violence as a reaction.
ananda
(28,876 posts)The truth is far more complex.
Both CNN and MSNBC are playing this meme, that black rioting
and looting is bad and makes Baltimore look bad.
Well, I think that the targeting of African Americans for killing
and the criminal justice system is far worse.
All this crap putting out false notions that everything would be
OK if the Black youth would just take advantage of the programs
and opportunities out there to help them, doesn't help.
We are not a nation of opportunity for minority or poor youths
any more. Those jobs are mostly gone, as are the programs.
We are a police state staffed with very racist and power-mongering
cops who are buttressed by an in-bred system designed to protect
them. This is the only way that harmful economic policies and practices
can be sustained.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)mountain grammy
(26,648 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)This is the message from Baltimore because actions speak louder than words.
7962
(11,841 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)LynnTTT
(362 posts)I'm a lifelong Democrat. Martin Luther King never advocated rock throwing. And he was fighting for civil rights. I'm as mad at police violence as anyone else, but looting a CVS does not show your outrage. This was few hundred thugs and curious teenagers spoiling for a fight...... and giving fuel to the lingering racists among us.
trumad
(41,692 posts)How about fighting for Civil rights?
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)I can certainly understand the rage behind it.
Almost 50 years after Dr. Kings death PEOPLE are still fighting for civil (read: BASIC HUMAN) rights.
Asking politely for equality has not worked ... I am not sure what the powers that be (or people expressing your view point) expect?
Do you really expect PEOPLE to sit back quietly and politely ask for equal rights and equal treatment?
I think looting and "rioting" are self defeating but I understand the desperation, the rage
BTW, I am from Metro Detroit ... sadly, "we" do this sh*t when one of our sports teams wins a title ... that, I can't understand the motivation behind
Chemisse
(30,817 posts)Of course it's a really bad idea to trash your own neighborhood. And yes, it is far better to protest peacefully.
But rather than demonize these kids, or allow this to feed existing racism, we should try to understand the hellish circumstances that give rise to this rage, and have a little compassion.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)I cant possibly be, I have NEVER been pulled over for being white.
No member of my family has been beaten up or shot by policy for being white, and there have been run ins with the law, thank god we are white.
No, I am mad as hell but I cant IMAGINE having to look over my shoulder EVERY GOD DAMN TIME I walk out the door and walk down the street and drive my car and go into a store to buy a shirt.
CANT IMAGINE
I have no idea who you are, you may be a minority and know more about this "feeling" than I do...
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Response to geek tragedy (Reply #13)
NoJusticeNoPeace This message was self-deleted by its author.
trumad
(41,692 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Nothing is working.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)How long were non-violent protests held over Freddie Gray--3 days?
Change is a long term project.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Trekologer
(997 posts)Americans, by and large, don't care about local government. Turnout is extraordinarily poor for local elections. Yet, it is the local government, though police and schools, which affect people the most. Are the police in your town/city escalating violence and reacting inappropriately? Organize the citizens in the community and get behind candidates for local public office who will clean up the police. If they fail to do so, vote the bastards out and try again.
Destroying your own community through more violence doesn't accomplish anything constructive. It doesn't rally anyone to support your cause.
Chathamization
(1,638 posts)the importance of local governments as simply filling in pot holes. Local governments play a huge role in people's lives.
chalmers
(288 posts)Young Tibetans Reject Dalai Lamas Nonviolent Stance
A generational divide is growing in Tibet, as young activists express impatience with their elders focus on peaceful dialogue with the Chinese government.
In the wake of Chinese crackdowns on Tibetan protesters, young people are growing impatient with the Dalai Lamas peaceful Middle Way of dealing with the Chinese government.
The middle way has been in existence for 20 years and nothing has come out of it, said Tsewang Rigzin, president of the Tibetan Youth Congress, which formed in the 1970s with the Dalai Lamas blessing but now espouses radical tactics over dialogue.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)predictable in outcome.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)and a bunch of rural non-militarized colonists. Oh wait...the Brits lost that one.
...or the US Army which has had no end of problems with only semi-organized insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pretty much a stalemate of the Zeno's dichotomy variety; we can win forever but never gain ground in defeating the insurgency.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)one major logistical challenge presented to the occupiers in the cases you cited that is absent in the case of China-Tibet.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)I majored in Political Theory.
I was a National Geographic Society National Geography Bee semifinalist when I was 12 however.
I'm well aware that Tibet is next to China...I'm also aware that there is a vast wasteland largely devoid of people and civilization (including but not limited to the Gobi Desert) between most of populated China and the Tibetan region. It may as well be halfway around the world for the lack of ease with which they'd defend it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)1.) Gandhi lived in the late 18th-century? That would be the 1700s.
2.) The myth of Gandhi as a pacifist is just that...a myth. Gandhi conceded the primary reason he embraced pacifism was for lack of guns or forces to wield them; it's intrinsic to the 4th indictment of the British in the Purna Swaraj* (The 1930 Indian Declaration of Independence which the Indian National Congress led by Nehru and Gandhi ratified). It goes on only to reject violence because they're not capable of inflicting violence so even his non-violence was strident and his rhetoric aggressive. In the later civil war against Pakistan he supported the use of force.
*-Spiritually, compulsory disarmament has made us unmanly, and the presence of an alien army of occupation, employed with deadly effect to crush in us the spirit of resistance, has made us think that we cannot look after ourselves or put up a defense against foreign aggression, or even defend our homes and families from the attacks of thieves, robbers and miscreants.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)a job. Wonder if CVS will reopen in the same area.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)look where that got minority communities.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)property with someone legitimately protesting. Rioting is one thing, but laughing at your good fortune over getting away with a trash bag full of beer and potato chips is another thing altogether.
trumad
(41,692 posts)I have a hard time dumping the Kings tea overboard. Kind of sounds like that.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I have no intention of arguing with you other than to say the people who dumped the king's tea did so under penalty of death should they have been caught.
I don't think many of the people in Boston that day did what they did with smiles and laughter like the people I'm seeing run out of stores with stolen goods.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Note the raised hats in the painting. Looks like a happy occasion.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Happy Happy Joy Joy.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)were becoming a symbol of freedom by The Sons of Liberty.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)There is nothing new under the sun.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)frustration level. the owner of the stores, ? ...... fuck em they are rich anyway right ?
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)At least they have better coverage and can absorb it easier.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)Response to Politicalboi (Reply #37)
Post removed
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)I'm truly impressed by your blather about wanting to burn down Wallmart.
I'm honored to have found an internet tough guy threatening violence, they are so rare.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)it may even have a gas station really close to make it easier for you
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Thanks goodness the 7-11 owner's spine wasn't partially severed. That would be bad.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)the burned buildings, looted stores, fires etc etc etc etc ......... that un-severed that mans spine didn't it ?
All for the greater good right ? The people who have had their homes, and business destroyed ? They need to get over it right ?
The innocent people FROM THIER OWN NEIGHBOORHOOD,....... suffering BECAUSE of the rioting "young children" ............... point made.
In protest of unfair, brutal and violent treatment by the cops,................. burn down local business, .... attack the fire department, I loved that. FUCKING FIREMEN, them and their red trucks. Loot the CVS and liquor stores, I wonder if Occupy is taking notes ?
Good luck Baltimore.
Logical
(22,457 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)It's frustrating to the point of tears, but on the other hand, I don't get the impression TPTB are doing anything to mitigate the anger that to me is completely valid.
Civilian oversight of ALL police forces isn't the only answer but it should be the FIRST action. I'd also systematically dismiss all LEOs with credible allegations of undue force on their records, and make it illegal for a jurisdiction to hire a LEO who's been fired from another jurisdiction. Something HAS to be done to at the very least show the public local governments are acting in the best interests of their citizens.
I'll say the same thing to you that I did to trumad: I truly believe that Mr. Gray was murdered, and on purpose. I understand the anger. This isn't the way to cause change though; it's a way to harden the hearts of the people the "protesters" are supposedly appealing to.
Logical
(22,457 posts)especially upset by the riots.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I've heard his name maybe three times since I got home from work and turned on the TV. I heard about this on the radio while I was working and didn't hear his name AT ALL.
Logical
(22,457 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)fire to CVS looks to the world.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)then we can worry about "how it looks to the world".
840high
(17,196 posts)I care for.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Those here that pretend rioting and looting is pointless, ignore history or are just ignorant. People riot because they reach a point of feeling totally helpless and just say FUCK IT.
That is when civilization breaks down do to faulty leadership and law enforcement.
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Like businesses deciding to get out of town. That's the change Baltimore is going to get. Then the community will complain about lack of jobs and how there's no good places to shop at.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)they complained about lack of jobs long before the riot. Their lives will not improve because of the riots. But, I doubt if things can get much worse.
tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)What are they thinking?
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)"Sometimes ya gotta fuck things up before things change"
..........eat snacky smores..............
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)echoing the language of those times right now. We might as well be watching reruns.
They just looted a gun store and set fire to a museum!!!
[url]
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Please let us know when they do because I want to see if fucking up your things brings change.
delete_bush
(1,712 posts)to be NIMBY's.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)In this case, our enemy is ourselves. We have to revolutionize the way we think of black people. Not as threats, but people who deserve rights and safety. We are still not there.
Based on history, I'd say civil disobedience would help to spark the revolution more than rioting. So far as I can tell, civil disobedience is the most effective tactic based on historical effectiveness.
Violence will make people feel good temporarily. Hey, at least we did something. It will be for nothing
mopinko
(70,215 posts)when the only power people have is the power to destroy things, and you put their back up against the wall, they quite rightly forget about propriety. they use the only power they have.
it has ever been thus. it will always be thus.
do i feel bad about a giant company having their beer cooler cleaned out? no, no i dont. i feel bad for the families whose young men have been killed in cold blood. by the THOUSANDS.
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)way that change ever happens.
borondongo
(19 posts)Why will these solve it?
#2) Did women riot in order to get the right to vote? Did the gay community get the right to marry (in most states so far) by rioting?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Let's see how much more fucked up it will get. Now they're looting local businesses. If they must do this, go to the police dept and start your riots there. They did that in the riots of LA in April 29th 1992.
951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)Maybe running off with an arm full of stuff will work for these people.
You remember bundy ranch, right?
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25395552/i-team-police-faced-possible-bloodbath-at-bundy-protest
but hey, they were just good upstanding Americans just exercisin' their first amendment by setting up checkpoints on public land, harassing media ...again on public lands and two of their members went on to murder two police officers then draped their bodies with gadsen flags.
Response to trumad (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #36)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)Are you going to volunteer as a block captain for your neighborhood's looting squad? Will there be training involved or is it more of a freelance sort of endeavor?
Just trying to get a handle on the parameters here.
951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)If we don't hold these cops accountable soon then looting will turn into something way more sinister.
I'll give you a scenario, someone is going to say "Hey! Why are we looting our own neighborhoods and businesses? Lets go into the more affluent neighborhoods and do it" and then the people living in those neighborhoods are going to say "Hey! Grab the guns and call the Oathkeepers, its war!" and then everything everybody ever worked and died for since the civil rights era is over.
All of this could be avoided if police officers who brutally beat or kill unarmed people are held accountable. If this happened then there will be no riots, no looting and we would avoid a really nasty race war that would completely devastate Black communities and make the Hamburg massacre and the Tulsa race riot look like childs play.
bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)Bullshit.
Violence against the citizenry by law enforcement is not acceptable and it must be addressed. However, if anyone believes that rioting and looting the very neighborhoods that much of this LE violence is occurring is going to effect change they are sadly mistaken. The Baltimore riots will be over in a matter of days, and the violence exhibited will only be remembered for the damage caused, not for the murder of Freddie Gray at the hands of Baltimore PD.
840high
(17,196 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Violence against the citizenry by law enforcement is not acceptable and it must be addressed.
What is it that you suggest in the face of the overwhelming indifference to the oligarchs that control this country and their police enforcers?
When there is no justice there is no peace.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)In the Boston Tea Party, it was a prelude to war and all-out rebellion that most of the colonists were beginning to demand. Not only that, but attacking the tea boats in the Boston harbor was a targeted act. Great Britain was giving a monopoly to the East India Tea Company and then putting on top of that a big tax. Destroying the tea was sticking a finger in the eye of the Brits and the monopoly they were enforcing. The act only hurt Britain and the Tea Company.
They also didn't hurt or kill anyone during the act. They didn't destroy anyone elses property other than the tea company's property.
What the fuck is looting a CVS pharmacy going to do? Huh? Not many are going to feel sympathy for you. The workers of the business (who are probably minority themselves) won't have a job to go to now. And the business owners you are looting won't lose any money because they have insurance. What's the point?
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)was a completely peaceful revolution. I'm pretty sure that Great Britain was giving the East India Tea Company a massive bailout which didn't sit well with a group of colonists. Further from what I have read the Boston Tea Party was not at all popular in the colonies at the time. There was an attitude that it was vandalism and it wasn't until the following June when the British Parliament passed measures to punish Boston that the colonists started to have more support for breaking away from Great Britain. AFAIK even George Washington was opposed to it.
I'm sure at the time there were a lot of colonists who said what the fuck is vandalizing the East India Tea Company pharmacy going to do? So you are in good company.
Ilsa
(61,698 posts)They were put out with only what they could haul away with them, and they had to make new lives in new locations.
The revolution also "looted" civilians.
romanic
(2,841 posts)bout people talking about the looting. What is your point? I still think rioting is shitty and doesn't help anything or anybody. Not the community, not Gray's family, not black people in general or the relationship between cops and minorities.
former9thward
(32,077 posts)Detroit has never recovered from the 1967 riots.
951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)Los Angeles has never recovered from the 1965 riots.
former9thward
(32,077 posts)But hey if you think they work go organize a riot.
romanic
(2,841 posts)and was lamblasted for it. People will rightfully protest black people being gunned down, but will stay quiet when our communities burn and are let to rot.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)We value property over people.
Kill a black guy and we'll do our level fucking best to make killing him seem justified. Break a window or flip a car over because someone killed a black guy and we'll be outraged and mourn the senseless tragedy as a nation. Imagine how the owner of that poor defenseless innocent property must feel!
Edit: And we'll drag Martin Luther King out as an example of how we feel black folks ought to act, while completely ignoring that white people were willing to deal with him because the alternative was people that advocated violence. The only time non-violence doesn't work is when the oppressors realize violence is what's going to happen if they don't.
realFedUp
(25,053 posts)Yes, injustice was done by the Baltimore police but these kids are just looking for free stuff. They should be taken in for robbery.
Real injustice done by them.
cali
(114,904 posts)And rage. It's another to praise mob violence and say it's necessary. That is precisely what you do. It's also condescending.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)You would not be paying attention to the killing tomorrow if you weren't disgusted today.
840high
(17,196 posts)been paying attention. Today watching the mob on TV - all I feel is disgust
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)to punish the officers.
840high
(17,196 posts)feel disgust for both.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)of riots.
Not because of the death of Mr. Gray.
840high
(17,196 posts)Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)The entire country is outraged about what happened to Mr. Grey, and there is an investigation ongoing, a process to be followed, before the perpetrators face the consequences. I believe it WILL happen, but it can't happen overnight, or even within two weeks of the crime.
Meanwhile, the riots are a distraction to the real issue, and are hurting the protesters cause.
trumad
(41,692 posts)So there.
Bonx
(2,075 posts)delete_bush
(1,712 posts)have cut some of the fire hoses.
borondongo
(19 posts)Had protesters succeeded in forcing the British to be nice, they wouldn't have had to engage in a war for independence. Terrible analogy.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)When they are killing your kin, you give it back in kind. No apologies.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Just heard that on Mark Marins show. These young people have been marginalized for so long.. and guess what... people get angry when they are marginalized.
Logical
(22,457 posts)realFedUp
(25,053 posts)Ask where their children were today and if they have anything new, where they got it. This stuff lives with the kid for the rest of their lives.
trumad
(41,692 posts)realFedUp
(25,053 posts)This case will be investigated and justice will hopefully be served.
Stealing stuff just makes you a criminal.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Petty theft? Destroy their lives. Murder? Eh, it happens. A little paid vacation and then back on duty.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)The way they are being targeted by police their lives may be over before they reach 20.
KG
(28,752 posts)Lobo27
(753 posts)Can't work building burned. Tough shit.
Can't get your meds. Tough shit.
Logical
(22,457 posts)kimbutgar
(21,188 posts)Fanning the flames blaming the black thugs.
Disgusting.
People are getting tired of this police violence shit and it has bubbled to the surface and is ready to erupt all over the country. The MSM has list control, the social media is running the show.
realFedUp
(25,053 posts)I am tired of this shit. Robbing and destroying stores because of a fucked up police action?
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)if you want to change the system, get off your ass and register to vote, get others registered to vote and change the politicos in charge of the cops....
advocating violence makes no sense as it will achieve nothing except increase bitterness and ruined lives
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)I think it's inexcusable.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)Boy do we have a lot to learn
VScott
(774 posts)can watch the mayhem on TV from the safety, comfort and convenience of their homes.
840high
(17,196 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)they see is a stolen box of tissues as the problem?
dont know if we can survive that
we as a society do NOT deserve to survive such arrogance and white privilege
840high
(17,196 posts)CVS being burned - you would sing a different song. Destroying your neighborhood is plain dumb.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)No tvs!!
ret5hd
(20,518 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)K&R
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)When aggrieved citizens are denied the opportunity to redress their grievances by democratic means (the courts, review panels, elections, etc.), then civil unrest seems the only way forward.
It's no secret that police violence is a huge problem, yet nobody in a position of power has taken any effective action to resolve the problem despite the throngs of people imploring them to do so. Sooner or later the strategy of "ignoring the problem will make it go away" results in riots.
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Like for instance it makes the decision "where should I get my Rx filled?" 100% easier.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Their cop-caused mortal wounds? Just kidding. They don't get bandaids, they get handcuffs and a good story about how police lives were in danger so it was all justified.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)also saw what MLK was doing and how violence did not fit in. So it pulls both ways.
If for a minute I thought this will lead to a totally changed police situation I would understand the need to lay down our lives but I feel that these kids are pretty much alone as soon as it becomes violent. It is they who are going to pay. Not justice but not a revolution either. Hopefully something good will come from this despite the odds.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)People taking advantage just to gain material possessions.
It's wrong.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)The killing of Freddie Gray is what led to this chaos.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Looting is still stupid and wrong.
The black leaders of Baltimore apparently agree with me. I'm watching the news conference.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)It appears to me that the leadership of Baltimore is black. I think they're doing the best they can in an awful situation.
You have a problem with that?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)There aren't necessarily leaders of the black community.
I'm not aware of any leaders of the white community.
If there are leaders of the white community, would John Boehner count?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)because it is germane in this context.
But feel free to try to redirect.
Looting is wrong. I truly cannot believe that anyone on DU supports this chaos.
The looting is opportunistic. You know this as well as I.
840high
(17,196 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)What about the leaders of the white community?
What did they say?
840high
(17,196 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Surely the leaders of the white community should speak out and condemn such violence.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)without fail, maybe some skin in the game when the cops murder will cause a reevaluation for some folks if not then at least their fat is in the fire and burning too.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)og1
(51 posts)Comparing the American rebellion with what black America is facing now is quite different. The American rebellion was not based on race and the majority of Americans supported it! Black protests do not have the support of the majority of Americans. In the last 35 years racism has been sanctioned by the Republican Party
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)realFedUp
(25,053 posts)Curfew tomorrow. How about tonight?
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... make things worse - a lot worse. People are going to fear and loath the rioters and looters and appriciate the police action as protective. Big lose for justice.
realFedUp
(25,053 posts)Count out the CVS.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)liberal N proud
(60,344 posts)What is the point of attacking a business and stealing everything? Or how does burning a car of an innocent bystander accomplish their goal?
Misdirected outrage is detrimental and counter productive to any cause!
840high
(17,196 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)we can believe in
these things will help
Logical
(22,457 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)That's what this country needs more of . . namecalling!!
Logical
(22,457 posts)how stupid are people? Destroying your own neighborhood.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts). . . and instead results in the loss of support of people who might otherwise be with us, resulting a subsequent backlash effect of still deeper entrenchment of violent police culture? Frankly, I think that is just as likely an outcome as any.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)I think in a lot of peoples minds this kind of action makes the police brutality excusable. It shouldn't but it does.
Fox has just been handed an excuse to paint the whole city as one in need of a police crack down. Pretty much the opposite of the desired effect.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Sometimes you must burn a village in order to save it
/sarcasm
RandySF
(59,224 posts)mountain grammy
(26,648 posts)they are committing targeted violence against American citizens and lying about it. They've been doing it for years. I saw it in high school. Anyone who's lived in any large metropolitan area has seen it. Before video cameras, the cop's word was always the final word. It still is, even with film at 11. The news calls Freddie Gray a "suspect" instead of a victim. He was never a suspect..
Now, even friends of the cops get to get in on the action and kill people.
The police are the fucking problem.
For Freddie
(79 posts)Tucson Az. about 5:15 PM watching press conference from Baltimore.
Channel surfing. The shade of skin color on FOX compared to CNN or MSNBC is intensely black. I keep flipping back and forth thinking REALLY? They do this to scare old white guys?
As to the situation, I was present during the "rioting" back in New York when Dr. King was murdered. Like then,this is also being monkeyed with.
And where we don't have J. Edgar as part of that we do have others.
Including the clowns on Fox upping the black- o -meter on the color intensity. The degree of blatant accepted racism on MSM needs to be addressed in a responsible way. Eventually this will and is creating a re-birth of Civil Rights activism for this generation of young people.
Every generation has to re-commit to Human Rights. In the meantime it would be swell if we could follow the money in the "outside agitators" factor,and corruption in police organizations.
Why do I keep thinking this recent "spontaneous" police racism
has Cheney's prints all over it. Why is this not researched?
Part of the mess they left with buried little domestic "surprises".
The concentration of urban poverty is not a co-winkee-dink.
Some one needs to do some thing about Fox's Black -O -Meter
coloring trick. Any one in the White House want to try?
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)that 99% of Americans aren't participating.
tavernier
(12,401 posts)to apologize to the looters. The minute the murder of this young man occurred, they should have opened their doors willingly and passed out their inventory instead of forcing these poor misunderstood souls to break glass and start fires that could accidentally end up in someone getting hurt.
Silly? It makes as much sense as your version of justice.
enki23
(7,790 posts)Well-to-do white people who didn't want to pay taxes to cover the serious costs incurred by the wars against the French that were fought in no small part for their benefit. So, when well-to-do white people trash other well-to-do people's property because (yes, among other things) they're mad about taxes, that's awesome and worthy of celebrating to this day.
White people definitely never rioted or used violence, or damaged property in those days, you see. Except for all the times they did, which was lots of the times, which don't count. Like the time when they didn't riot during the lead-up to the Boston Massacre when mostly-white Bostonians threw rocks and things at British soldiers till the soldiers fired into the crowd. It's completely different because those soldiers were actually arrested and tried, unlike most cops guilty of killing black men in cold blood. So it's a happy story, even though most of them were acquitted. And anyway, there was only one famous non-white person involved in throwing things at the soldiers rather than lots of non-white people, which would have made it very not okay.
Wait.... I'm forgetting my point again. I think the point is... violence never solves anything except for all the times people I approve of used it to solve things for which we now have federal holidays and such.
dembotoz
(16,832 posts)Had not thought of it like that
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Stonewall RIOTs, people need to read it
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)needing to read about it. Aggressively resisting police arrests and harassment isn't quite
the same thing as burning down an affordable housing project for seniors.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I'm sure their disdainful, patronizing sermons stating how we must be quiet and obedient when raising grievances will be well received after several police killings this month.
I'm with trumad. Governments ignore you when you're non-violent. The media ignores you when you're non-violent, and most folks are completely ignorant of the shit that black people and other minorities go through every single fucking day.
Sometimes, you have to break shit. Preach at me all you want. I don't give a fuck.
Where did GLBT civil rights really get a good start? Oh yeah, with Stonewall. With a riot. That's still celebrated today.
trumad
(41,692 posts)A million people marched against the Iraq war ---errr peacefully. Guess what--- We still went to war.
Imagine a million people breaking shit...... Ya think they might have thought twice about taking us to war.
840high
(17,196 posts)counter productive.
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)Contacted you Mayor, your council-person? Demanded any changes in policing policies? Or did you decide it's so much easier to say peaceful engagement is worthless and not bother to try?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think it takes a special kind of 1st world cocoon of privilege, video games and fast food to expect a rational community response to a series of irrational acts by law enforcement.
Mike Daniels
(5,842 posts)and burning down businesses and retirement communities that aren't the cause of your problems and have nothing to do with your grievances.
If the looters wanted to be seem in a comparative light perhaps they should have burned down the police departments in their neighborhood.