What is NOT helpful in discussions about rioting in {name the city in question}

[markpkessinger]

Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2015, 11:43 PM - Edit history (2)

(Note: I posted this back in November, when the riots in Ferguson were the major topic of discussion. I have reworked it in relation to the current discussions concerning the rioting in Baltimore.)

[font size=5]What is NOT particularly helpful with regard to FergusonBaltimore[/font]

In another thread, the question was asked, how is burning of black owned businesses helpful. It probably isn't, but that isn't really the point of rioting anyway -- more on that in a moment. But if there is one thing that can definitely be said to be unhelpful with respect to Ferguson Baltimore, I believe it is this: the sympathy of white liberals with the folks of Ferguson Baltimore that comes couched in smug, glib moralizing about the indefensibility of rioting.

Riots of the type unfolding in Ferguson Baltimore are not, first and foremost, attempts to be 'helpful.' Riots like these are expressions of pent up frustration and rage, undertaken by people who have lost all faith in any of the normal, purportedly 'helpful' channels or processes. They do not function according to carefully calculated strategies of what is likely or not likely to help a given cause. They are expressions of raw emotion on the part of people who are desperate, and who feel that their grievances have not been heard . . . by design. Instead of asking whether the actions of the rioters is 'helpful,' maybe a better question to ask is, "Is their rage justified." I believe it is.

Some will argue that while the rage in Ferguson may be justified, violence and looting never are. Well, perhaps, but when it gets to the point that people feel they must riot in order to be heard, then they are already way past a point where they see any value in recognizing a society's norms for what is considered to be "justified." This is a community that feels it has been denied justice, not just in the case of Michael Brown Freddie Gray, but in case after case, and city after city, across this country over many, many years. They have watched as peaceful protest after peaceful protest across the country has failed to yield anything by way of substantive reform. Thus for anyone to preach to this community about behaving in a manner that is "justified" is clueless, as well as being smug and condescending in the extreme. For these folks, the very notion of working through 'proper channel' or 'the political process,' indeed, of the very idea of 'law and order' and 'justice,' have ceased to have any legitimacy whatsoever. This is not to suggest that rioting is 'right,' but rather that for the folks involved in these riots, categories of "right" and "wrong" seem to be little more than cruel illusions, rendering these terms largely irrelevant and useless in engaging the issues in any kind of constructive way.

What I believe the people of Ferguson Baltimore need right now is a lot less sympathy, and a lot more empathy. Try to imagine the depth of the rage you would feel it were your children, or your community's children, whom society had decided could be summarily executed by police, their killers facing virtually no accountability whatsoever. How many times would it have to happen before you were overtaken by cynicism towards terms like "justice" and "the rule of law."

A friend of mine tonight put it like this:

Is the violence and chaos upsetting, regrettable, and unfortunate? Certainly. Is it occurring because nobody's taken the time to calmly and rationally explain to the rioters why rioting is bad? Fuck you."

Exactly.

[morningfog]

1. I don't understand how so many fail to understand the politics of riots.

The anger builds and the anger is justified.

[Scootaloo]

3. it's really easy to understand; they don't actually give a fuck either way

But hey, now they have a chance to rant about the inherent awfulness of protesters and - bonus points! - black people. Seriously, if it wouldn't get me a hide, i could name ten DU'ers off the top of my head whose only concern in these issues, is how much hate they can "legitimately' spew at and about black people.

Meanwhile a bunch of white dudebros named Tad and Alec burn shit down in Keene, NH, and not a peep. Over a pumpkin festival.

[Adrahil]

7. Don't make accusations like that unless you're gonna back it up

If you think some folks here are racists, have the guts to call them out or STFU about it.

This kind of post is cowardly, since you get to MAKE accusation, but its so vague you never really have to back it up.

[bravenak]

19. They are most definately here.

They show up everytime a black kid get shot to criminalize him and say what he should have done to prevent his unarmed self from getting murdered. I can name at LEAST 10.

[Egnever]

2. I doubt there is anyone who doesnt understand the pent up anger

What people are pointing out is that that anger is misdirected and harmful to their own community.

I get why the riots are happening and understand the motivation but I fail to see how it helps the community in any way whatsoever.

[morningfog]

4. Where the FUCK else is the anger to be directed?

Anger is a raw emotion. It is not about help, it is about pressure release.

[markpkessinger]

6. +1 n/t

[Adrahil]

8. If the looters had HALF this much passion in the 2014 elections...

Maryland wouldn't have a Republican governor right now.

Looting produces nothing useful. We need to seize political power through the force of numbers at the ballot box!

[markpkessinger]

11. Do you honestly think these folks give a rat's ass what initial follows the name of the governor?

Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2015, 11:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Or that a Democratic governor would have prevented the death of Freddie Grey? Police violence against African Americans happens in states with Democratic and Republican governors like. New York has a Democratic governor. Missouri has a Democratic governor. To suggest that this problem would not be occurring if only the people of Maryland had elected a Democrat is just completely out of touch with reality.

[Egnever]

9. I see and that somehow makes it effective?

From my perspective it gives Fox and friends the opportunity to point their fingers and say see it is just a bunch of criminals who deserve what they got.

I get the motivation but it doesn't make it right or helpful.

At some point you have to take responsibility at some point you have to look at your elected officials and say WTF. At some point you have to organize and throw the bumbs out. All these riots are doing is reinforcing the idea that more police presence is needed. Completely counter to what in theory they are trying to achieve.

The anger is justified the target of that anger is wildly off the mark.

[markpkessinger]

10. It isn't 'anger,' it's sheer rage at this point . . .

. . . and rage doesn't operate within anybody's set of rules. And no, it isn't particularly 'helpful.' But, as these folks see it, nothing they have done has been helpful, and indeed, nothing they can do will be helpful either. All they have left is raw, uncontrollable rage. And it is tantamount to throwing gasoline on a fire to lecture them about the need to be 'helpful' at this point.

[markpkessinger]

5. And you still don't get the point I am making

Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2015, 11:40 PM - Edit history (1)

. . . By the time we get to the point where riots such as these break out, we are WAY past the point of careful, deliberate planning and choices. Rational decision-making is no longer even relevant, because from where the rioters sit, if the world ever had any rationality in the first place, for them it long ago ceased to exist. Yes, you are right: riots probably hurt the very communities whose rage they are expressing. But to sit on the sidelines and lecture people about "misdirected" rage is not only pointless, it likely functions as an accelerant to that rage.

[Egnever]

13. Sorry that is nonsense

This has been brewing for decades this didn't happen this week. The sad fact is you can go look at the election results and see the piss poor turnout in a lot of the cities where many of these issues are occurring.

These communities need to take part in electing the people who govern them. If that doesn't happen no amount of looting in the world will change a damn thing.

Rage is understandable but pretending these things got out of control by themselves is a cop out. The people that live there cant be bothered until it gets so bad they can't stand it any more. By then it is too late and destroying their own community is worse than pointless it gives ammunition to the very powers they are presumably trying to change.

So what happens now? People wake up tomorrow and cant go get their prescriptions or get food to feed their kids and the same people who are not doing nearly enough to rectify the problems will continue to be there and people who have no resources to drive 20 miles for their necessities will be left with a god awful mess to deal with for weeks months or even years to come.

Register and VOTE all else is bullshit feelgood crap. Feels good to stick it to the man except what really happened is you stuck it to yourself the man will move on and you will be left in an even worse situation than you were before.

VOTE! Take that anger and fucking VOTE.

[markpkessinger]

14. Yes it has been brewing for decades . . .

. . . And Republicans and Democrats alike have failed to address the issue in any meaningful, substantive way.

[Egnever]

15. No doubt

But the elected officials have never had to worry about the people voting either.

[Mojorabbit]

16. I saw that over ten thousand people peacefully protested

including a whole lot of pastors. The amount of people being destructive is small compared.

[Egnever]

18. Those folks are doing the hard work necessary

The looters are doing the easy part.

[Chan790]

17. They should totally pay bus fare downtown...

to riot on Eutaw St.

(I mean burning-down the affluent, trendy, hip and gentrified urban district makes more sense, right? That would be productive and not harmful to their own community. It would be directed at the people that have taken all the profits and benefits of the economic and development turn-around of selected sections of Baltimore at-least.)

[Egnever]

20. It would make much more sense

And would likely produce a much larger response.

It would still be an ass backwards way of accomplishing the goal but would send a much stronger message.

You want white people to start taking notice of decimation in black communities start burning down their houses instead of your own. When you burn your own it is oh so easy to let you live in the shit you left yourself.

I don't think it would work out well in the end because the black community is horribly outnumbered and outgunned but there would certainly be an immediate outcry for action of some sort. As it stands now i think it is pretty easy for your average white person to look at what is going on and think to themselves and this is why I don't want to live near those folks.

I am lucky, I live in one of the most diverse cities in America and while there is still racism or bigotry here mostly anywhere you go there is a lovely mix of people all getting along quite peacefully.

[tblue37]

12. KnR. nt

[BrotherIvan]

21. Because sitting in a comfortable chair, telling other people what to think and what to do

Is the profession of many on DU.