Dumbing it Down: I have a teenaged son

[ScreamingMeemie]

As I'm guessing a lot DUers know from their own experience, raising a teenager of any gender is a blast and a half.

My son is a GREAT kid (we all say that) who's been through a lot of hell that a kid shouldn't have to go through. People tend to like him when they meet him because he's been raised to be polite and tends to keep the bullcrap at home.

BUT...

There are times he feels (and he is right sometimes) that I'm not listening to him. That I don't hear a word he says. That I don't care for his suffering (and it IS suffering--short story, he lost his dad suddenly and unexpectedly at a young age). As much as I tell him I AM listening (even when I really and truly AM), it's not enough. Because I can't fix it and he sees that as me making no attempt to fix it (and oh how I wish I could fix "it&quot .

This one incredible, smart, good-grade-getting kid, in his anger, has unfortunately busted a cabinet door, put a hole through a wall, shredded a pillow, broken a souvenir bat in half and all manner little destructions. (and before the "well-meaning" mention it, he gets counseling and it's a completely normal reaction given his background)

Is it right??? Hell no, it's not right. It's expensive and annoying, and I really wanna lose my shit when he reacts like that (thankfully, with age, he is much better).

Can I empathize? Hell yes, I can empathize. This is a kid who lost half of everything that makes a kid feel secure, and there are days I wanna break something (and I have because it's not f*cking fair and that wasn't "right" either.)

So, nooooo, as much as people would like to reframe it as "cheering" on a rioter, it is me empathizing with people who have been not listened to, and arrested/possibly killed, and told what to do for so long they erupt. Is it right? Hell no. Is it understandable and can I empathize? Hell yes.

[bigwillq]

1. I think this is a good post.

I think you made some very good points.

I think most, if not all of us, have acted and reacted in this way at one time or another. I think, for the most part, it's a natural reaction. I have thrown things, kicked things, punched things.

I think I understand some of the actions of the folks who are rioting. And I empathize too.

There's only so much any of us can do before we reach a tipping/boiling/breaking point. I think that's where some of these folks in Baltimore are at right now.

Thank you for this post. It made a lot of sense, at least to me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Thanks, and that is what I'm thinking too.

With regard to Baltimore. In a perfect world, maybe this wouldn't happen. But we are far from perfect.

[Whiskeytide]

2. It amazes me how, on a progressive board...

... people can take such "black or white" positions, and utterly ignore the gray. It is perfectly reasonable to condemn the violence (and its bad consequences) while simultaneously understanding what has caused it to erupt, and calling for change. I always thought being able to do so is a large part of what separates us from the right.

Thanks for your post.

[ScreamingMeemie]

12. It amazes me too.

And it bothered me to see empathy reframed as cheering on this board.

[JohnnyLib2]

3. Your post really makes a useful and timely point.

Thank you from a (long ago) teen, father of teens, and counselor for teens!

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Thank you...

for giving your time to counseling. That has got to be a tough job.

[onecaliberal]

4. Thank you for this post.

Spot on.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. Thank you

[daleanime]

5. Reads post, worries about responses....

scrolls down, not bad so far. Crosses fingers and hopes for the best. It does need to be said.



Hugs available upon request.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. I did too.

Sometimes, I am pleasantly surprised.

and... thanks.

[seabeyond]

6. excellent post. fuggin, excellent. i agree with using this to better express how so many feel

about the rioting.

but further, .... you son. next hug you give him, it has my name on it.

my 2 nephews and niece had it tough, in so many ways, growing up. my 22 yr old nephew is now coming around just to talk. i have already gone thru this with the two others.

the anger.

the anger.

that is what we have to address. that will take him down. and ya.... i get it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. Thanks. I'll make sure he gets it.

Some days here are better than others. Thanks sea

[Mira]

7. well done post - excellently made points

I went through the identical (just about) with my own son when he was a teenager for identical (just about) reasons.
The root problems have to be addressed, or the tinder boxes around the country will ignite.

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. Exactly. Also, you give me hope that my son will make it through this.

Times can get a little terrible.

[hunter]

8. My dad always made me fix the damage I did as a teen...

... I learned some valuable skills along the way.

I later got jobs fixing up crappy student housing that had been abused by other angry and lost young people.

However this turns out in rough Baltimore, it's probably not going to end up creating jobs or educational opportunities in the local community. The repair and cleanup work will go to well-connected outsiders, just as the police jobs do, emphasizing once again to the people of the community that the more powerful "polite" society considers them both useless and dangerous.

Fuck polite.

"Please, sir, may I have another bowl of your shit?"

There's plenty of work to be done in the U.S.A.. If the private sector cannot provide good jobs for people, our governments must. And if government wants to know what kind of work and what kind of educational opportunities a community desperately needs, then the experts are the people who actually live in a community, not some self-righteous asshole living in an entirely different universe, fully insulated from many rougher realities of life.

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. Thank you for this post.

[Joe Nation]

9. Understanding is a good start

Nobody wants to make excuses for violence and pointless destruction but many of us do want to understand the causes of such behavior. None of this behavior happens in a vacuum. I have a hard time imagining what it would be like to be scrutinized everyday just because I was a black youth. That would have to get old really fast and I have to imagine that it would build up a significant amount of resentment and anger in any person. Add in unemployment, poverty, broken homes, and crime and you get the idea that some of these young people feel that they have nothing to lose. SM points out that even kids not subjected to the harsh inner-city culture can have the same frustrations and act out irrationally by experiencing the trauma of losing a very important family member. I can tell you that it doesn't even take all that much trauma to send a teenager reeling and feeling alone and finding themselves in a dark place. Sometimes the anger is directed inward and not towards society but is devastatingly destructive to the individual and then spreads outward to the entire family. Teen suicide is often the consequence of an inwardly focused kid suffering in silence. If you add together those kids that react openly and those kids that privately manage their own suffering, you can't help but conclude that we have a mental health crisis in this country that is not being addressed.

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. Very well-written. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

As a side note, suicide is almost a sick legacy within my husband's family (great-grandfather, grandfather, father), so your points ring clear.

Thank you so much.

[Joe Nation]

30. Hope your life is getting better

I have three teenage sons. They were raised in what I consider a relatively privileged home. We weren't rich but we had enough to get along. What we were rich in was two dedicated parents that loved their kids unconditionally. We are all very close, supportive of each other, had no major losses of any kind, had extended family support, a nice home, a good neighborhood, good schools, and kids that had many friends and even some great girlfriends along the way. We still had one son that was suicidal. What could we have done differently? I have no idea. They are all doing great these days but there was about a year where we weren't sure that we weren't going to lose one of our kids. My point is that while trauma and loss and a multitude of other problems are obvious negative influences on kids development, sometimes there is nothing at all to point at and you can still get hit right between the eyes by what life hands you. The only thing I can tell anyone is that it does get better eventually but never give up.

[JDPriestly]

10. Sorry. If my child

"busted a cabinet door, put a hole through a wall, shredded a pillow, broken a souvenir bat in half and all manner little destructions," he would not just be getting counseling.

I do not believe in corporal punishment, but I would teach my child that such behavior is going to cause him trouble in his life and I would not allow him to do that. He would be "grounded" at the first sign of such destructive behavior.

Understanding is important, but as parents, we need to set limits in our own lives and expect our children to set them in their lives. And while losing a parent is a terrible thing for a child, it happens to millions of children every year.

Self-discipline is an important part of life. No matter what happens to us, if we are to succeed as a society, each of us has to control our destructive urges.

Goes for police officers as well as the rest of us.

We need an open reporting and hearing system for accusations of police brutality. If a person has such a tendency to police brutality that they can't work as a policeman if they have to answer for their uses of force, have to justify each use of force, they have no business being a police officer.

Every call should be answered by at least two police officers. And uses of force should be kept to a minimum.

But a child or teenager who tears up the house is out of control and should have been taught at the age of three or four what is right and what is wrong.

Sorry to be rude, but we cannot excuse such behavior on anyone's part whether a child, a teenager or a police officer.

[wordpix]

20. +10000 - I have friends with a schizophrenic son

who did the same things at their home where he's lived all his life except when he was in college, which he finished. This "kid" is now 30 y.o. and even though he has highly marketable skills, he's never worked. He has threatened his parents, stood outside their home (where they gave him free room/board/use of their car) and yelled and disturbed neighbors, got arrested, went to court and jail a couple of times (briefly). Finally he was court-ordered to stay away from the home and my friends, in their 70's and with no savings due to this "kid" and his problems, got him his own apt. Recently he has been ordered to vacate the apt. due to his behavior.

My friends have bent over backward to accommodate their son and keep him out of jail. I say they've done enough for him and he doesn't learn, so let him receive the consequences even if that means a jail stint. His mother disagrees, makes excuses for him and says his illness is just like cancer, it's something he can't help, he'll be on the street if she doesn't continue to help him.

One of the probs is that for the mentally ill, there is nowhere for adults to go but jail in most states and that only makes their illness worse. Jails have been filling up with mentally ill people for many years and most jails don't have effective programs.

There are some programs this young man could access, but the adult mentally ill person has to admit himself, which this man will not do. He won't even sign up for O-care.

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. If you somehow thought there were not penalties for the destructive behavior,

you would be wrong.

Thank you. It's not "excusing." It's "empathizing." The two are very different, and you've actually done a really great job of illustrating that here. Thank you.

[JDPriestly]

25. Interesting how the same people who "empathize" with a violent child

or spouse think war is wrong.

Violence and war are one and the same.

I empathize with the pain that is expressed in the violence. But I do not empathize with violent behavior. It is unacceptable.

Nobody gets by with violence. Violence breeds violence. If you allow a child to become carried away with violent impulses, that will be his habit the rest of his life.

Our culture suffers from this cult of empathy for violence.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. My child is angry. He has a right to be. I'm going to go with his counselor and the job

I am doing than with a nameless, faceless person on the Internet. But thanks.

It sounds as if you want me to find your posts rude. I do not. I just happen not to agree with them, while being amazed at the fine young man my son is growing up to be: anger, hormones and all.

[JDPriestly]

27. And do you empathize with the police officers who are violent?

I do not.

They too have reasons for being violent. They see a lot of horrible crime, injuries, beatings, shootings, blood, guts, far more than your son has seen.

Ending the violence in our society starts with our children, with the movies we watch, with the values we hold. Angry violence in a teenager is a very dangerous thing.

The violence should be channeled into sports and physical activity, not into destroying things or hurting people.

How can we expect police officers to control their violence when we ask them to stand between us and out-of-control violent people including teenagers?

The violence has to stop, and stopping it begins in our homes.

Violence against a spouse is another kind of violence with for I have no empathy.

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. Reframing.

You have missed the point of the OP and unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about it. (have the police, from a state of authority, been trod upon, so much so that that would be their reaction?)

I empathize with those I've stated I empathize with.

Have a wonderful afternoon. I'm planning on making a pot roast.

[hunter]

29. You never punched a hole in the wall?

You never tossed a verbal hand grenade at someone? You never "burned bridges" and ran away without looking back?

Good for you.

The berserker genes are strong in me. My mom has them, her dad had them. He was a conscientious objector in World War II because he refused to take up arms. He got beat up by the cops protesting the internment of his Japanese neighbors. They gave him a choice, prison or building Liberty and Victory ships. He built ships.

The religion my mom settled into was Quaker.

My own extremist pacifism was hard earned. I'm a pacifist by necessity, not by natural inclination. I've turned down well paid work by people who wanted to exploit me as some kind of warrior.

I learned the hard way how to fix the holes I punched in the walls and apologize to the people I'd hurt.

[JDPriestly]

31. Actually, I had a very bad temper when I was a small child, but

my parents were patient and rational and had self-discipline themselves, and they taught me and the rest of the children in the family how to use our words. I have enjoyed great rewards in my life including good relationships with other people and much happiness thanks to the fact that my parents set good examples of patience and self-control and taught me to try to develop those habits.

You are kind of also saying that you have worked on developing non-violent habits even though segments of society would use your temperament for their purposes.

The problem with the riots is that they are feed the cycle of police violence in that the public sees them and thinks "See that. The police are justified in using a lot of violence in the face of those out of control thugs."

I am the first to say that our country is on the wrong track. Racism, economic unfairness and smugness in the face of the needs of others are horrible.

But the solution is political action. I wonder how many of the rioters voted last November. And if they can't vote, I wonder how many of them organize to get good candidates who represent their interests and then get others to vote for the good candidates.

"Use your words."

That's what angry children in kindergarten and day-care are told. I would say that to angry adults, "Use your words and your votes, and if you can't vote, get others to understand their interests and vote to make your community better."

Riots just cause and justify a backlash against the rioters.

[hunter]

32. Angry teenage girls frequently use their words...

... and sometimes a parent or teacher thinks it would much easier on everyone if they just punched a hole in the wall or threw a wastebasket.

I know I have.



The difficult part isn't telling people what they "should" do; anyone can do that since everyone has opinions how to best get along in this world. The difficult part is simply listening, even as you are being eviscerated by angry words.

Privileged white males in the U.S.A. have a bad habit of telling everyone else what they "should" do. Cops in the U.S.A. are even worse.

If I was emperor of this nation I'd fire three-quarters of the cops and completely disarm three-quarters of those remaining. Let them solve problems with their words, and leave the weapons to those few saintly individuals who would sooner take a bullet than kill someone.

[JDPriestly]

33. Good suggestion. Maybe we should require police officers to wear

uniforms that say "Use your words." That admonition makes the angry person stop and think. And that thinking is what soothes anger.

[awoke_in_2003]

19. My mother died thanksgiving day 1981

I was 13. I know where you are at.

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. I am so sorry.

I realize that is something he will never get over, but it's my job to get him through. If that makes sense. Thanks for sharing that. It can be such a lonely thing.

[awoke_in_2003]

24. It makes sense...

My father couldn't fix it, nobody could. But he was always there, always strong. That helped a lot.