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JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
Sat May 9, 2015, 11:39 AM May 2015

The socialist revolt that America forgot: A history lesson for Bernie Sanders

In 1978, the Left was fed up with Jimmy Carter and looking for an alternative. If only they had followed through.

Bernie Sanders is a singular figure in modern U.S. politics, the lone self-identified socialist to serve in Congress, at a time when mainstream American attitudes, if not actively violent towards socialism as they have been in the past, remain nonetheless fundamentally suspicious. As such, his plans to run against Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Democratic primaries represent something of an anomaly. What bears mentioning about Sanders’ run, however, is that it is not the first time a prominent socialist has considered a bid for the Democratic nomination. To understand the significance of Sanders’ candidacy, it’s worth flashing back to the summer of 1978, as liberal Democrats were growing increasingly disillusioned with Jimmy Carter’s presidency.

Jimmy Carter was never going to be the left’s favorite candidate. On the eve of the 1976 elections, Michael Harrington, the leader of the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee had called on leftists to vote for Carter “without illusions.” We expected very little and that’s exactly what we got.

In his lone term in office, Carter failed to pass a national health insurance program, failed to reform labor laws, and disappointed liberal Democrats on a wide range of issues — in particular, full employment.

So as the 1980 presidential election drew near, many were hoping that Senator Edward Kennedy would step in, as his brother Robert had done a decade before, and run against a sitting Democratic president. But Kennedy was cautious, despite some polls that showed him with a significant lead over Carter.

At the time, Harrington, a social critic and author of “The Other America” – a book widely credited with convincing President John F. Kennedy that poverty was still an issue in America – was trying to build up an explicitly socialist wing of the Democratic Party. Harrington and his supporters had won over the venerable (and tiny) Socialist Party a decade earlier to the view that if they were serious about politics, it was time to stop running independent candidates. Their argument was a simple one: The Socialist vote had declined from a peak of around a million in the years around World War I to just a couple of thousand by the 1950s. If socialists were ever going to leave their mark on the country, it would have to be done through the Democratic Party.

By 1978, the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee (DSOC) was growing in numbers and in influence in the liberal wing of the party, having successfully organized two major national conferences of progressives, called “Democracy 76” and “Democratic Agenda.” The latter was successfully challenging Carter from the Left, and at the Memphis Democratic mid-term convention in 1978, its resolutions were supported by a very large minority of delegates.

DSOC was recruiting new members in places across the country where a young New York radical such as myself would never have expected to find an organized Left, such as in Texas and North Carolina. In just a few months, the DSOC would hold its national convention in a motel outside of Houston. The hotel’s billboard sign proclaimed “Welcome $ocialists.” (They actually did use a dollar sign.) To young and inexperienced activists like myself, it looked like we might be on the cusp of a breakthrough.

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/08/the_socialist_revolt_that_america_forgot_a_history_lesson_for_bernie_sanders/

This was before my time & all new & interesting information. Almost afraid to post over what sort of flame war to expect but it is a good read.

55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The socialist revolt that America forgot: A history lesson for Bernie Sanders (Original Post) JonLP24 May 2015 OP
How'd that work out? MaggieD May 2015 #1
The first rule of "talking about the 1980 election" is... JHB May 2015 #5
+1. n/t winter is coming May 2015 #9
Exactly (nt) MaggieD May 2015 #16
Do people generally know about the October Surprise angle of the hostage crisis? Jackpine Radical May 2015 #27
+1 daleanime May 2015 #46
"Generally"? No, and I tend to be cautious about bringing it up... JHB May 2015 #51
True. Another error is about Kennedy's run. it wasn't that he entered too late. hedda_foil May 2015 #38
Then the party moved to the right JonLP24 May 2015 #7
Jimmy Carter was one of the most liberal presidents we've had MaggieD May 2015 #17
Jimmy Carter continued the deregulation ball that Ford started AZ Progressive May 2015 #21
No one at the time considered Carter a liberal. winter is coming May 2015 #24
There is so much revisionism around Jimmy Carter DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #25
Oddly enough, he got a lot of good publicity by palling sufrommich May 2015 #33
He also quoted Bob Dylan in his acceptance speech DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #39
Yeah, I remember that. I wonder if Carter was the first sufrommich May 2015 #43
In some ways he was a very adroit politician... DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #44
I think Carter had very good instincts when it came to how to sufrommich May 2015 #45
He was the most conservative major Dem candidate. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #28
I was too young to vote but I would have supported Jerry Brown. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #41
O, Lord-- Jackpine Radical May 2015 #52
Thanks for proving no candidate is liberal enough MaggieD May 2015 #30
Um... BrotherIvan May 2015 #54
Yeah - just like they found Obama MaggieD May 2015 #55
It wasn't a year until Obama started using Bush era arguments JonLP24 May 2015 #35
These are fundamentally different times AZ Progressive May 2015 #42
I'm out there arguing the same thing pretty much JonLP24 May 2015 #47
Carter ran as a social liberal / fiscal conservative Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #50
In political science it's known as 'The pendulum effect" AgingAmerican May 2015 #2
It swings all the way right. yallerdawg May 2015 #3
Yep AgingAmerican May 2015 #4
When was the last time Democrats held the Presidency for a 3rd term in a row? yallerdawg May 2015 #6
The DEMOCRATIC PARTY is swinging back to the left AgingAmerican May 2015 #8
Your path to national victory is to purge the Democratic Party. yallerdawg May 2015 #11
I will never understand Democratic defeatism AgingAmerican May 2015 #12
But you do undertand Democratic defeats. yallerdawg May 2015 #15
You really need to take a basic course in poly sci AgingAmerican May 2015 #20
I think the Dems can win a 3rd term if they're not simply offering more of the same. n/t winter is coming May 2015 #10
Is that more Clinton? More Obama? yallerdawg May 2015 #13
That's "more centrist". winter is coming May 2015 #14
How is it "swinging" back? MaggieD May 2015 #18
The Democratic party is swinging back to the left. AgingAmerican May 2015 #19
Thanks to midterm apathy and gerrymandering AZ Progressive May 2015 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author AZ Progressive May 2015 #23
What did you expect during a primary? Or did you not want a primary? djean111 May 2015 #26
How about you take your cue from Sanders MaggieD May 2015 #29
Purist is a strawman AgingAmerican May 2015 #31
Tearing down democrats is not a recipe for victory MaggieD May 2015 #34
Same strawman, different post AgingAmerican May 2015 #36
That sounds like the rethug canard... MaggieD May 2015 #40
How about giving examples of how "purists" here lined up to tear down Democrats after elections? MrMickeysMom May 2015 #49
"Purist", "basher", and "hater" are all large neon "Don't take me seriously" signs. winter is coming May 2015 #37
there it is BrotherIvan May 2015 #53
I'd bash Sanders if he was wrong on any issue I feel he is wrong on JonLP24 May 2015 #48
You should read "The Other America" and "Toward A Democratic Left" DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #32

JHB

(37,160 posts)
5. The first rule of "talking about the 1980 election" is...
Sat May 9, 2015, 12:28 PM
May 2015

...if you don't mention the words "hostage crisis" or "Desert One", the discussion is not really about the 1980 election.

Edited to add: I've found this applies across the board: to crowing Reaganites, to scolding "centrists", and to "woulda-shoulda-coulda" leftists like the Salon article writer.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
27. Do people generally know about the October Surprise angle of the hostage crisis?
Sat May 9, 2015, 02:51 PM
May 2015

The Republicans have been running a crooked game for a long time. Reagan's gang (GWHB) just copied what Nixon did in '68 with the Peace Talks.

JHB

(37,160 posts)
51. "Generally"? No, and I tend to be cautious about bringing it up...
Sat May 9, 2015, 04:23 PM
May 2015

...because if you mention it to someone who hasn't really absorbed some of the background, it can sound like "left-wing conspiracy theory". There are no "smoking guns", you need to build a case about it, including dealing with some of the debunked parts (e.g., the guy who claimed he flew Bush to France in an SR-71, but couldn't answer basic questions on how to fly one). That takes time.

Also remember that Carter's go-to guy on the subject, Gary Sick, at the time thought it was just the Iranians just doing it out of spite for Carter, which they were perfectly capable of. He didn't become convinced of active sabotage until about a decade later when he learned some information he didn't have before.

And, regarding the election, in some ways it's moot. To have been stopped, it would have had to have been exposed while it was happening. At a time when a lot CIA personnel had big chips on their shoulders from Carter's firings, and a former DCI who'd been popular with them was on the other ticket. Kinda cut into the odds of someone blowing the whistle in time.

However, the big shift in favor of Reagan happened late, once it became clear that Carter wouldn't pull off an "October surprise" hostage deal, that it would just drag on, and a lot of people in the middle decided maybe a new approach was needed. Every other factor in the election (and there were a lot of them, from inflation & taxes to "Ed Koch voters" who broke for Reagan or Anderson over Carter's Israel policy and comments) are a lot more open to debate, and pointing to any one of them as "the reason" Reagan won is just myopic.

hedda_foil

(16,375 posts)
38. True. Another error is about Kennedy's run. it wasn't that he entered too late.
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:14 PM
May 2015

Does anyone remember the Roger.Muff interview? I knew then and
there that Teddy had blown it.



Ted Kennedy: The Day the Presidency Was Lost

In August of 1979, Kennedy was the overwhelming favorite to seize the Democratic nomination for president. The incumbent Jimmy Carter – staggered by soaring gas prices and a hostage crisis – seemed poised for a knockout by the last surviving brother of America's storied political dynasty. And then, all of a sudden, Kennedy's aura of inevitability was unexpectedly shattered.

As the cameras rolled, Mudd popped the now-famous question: Why do you want to be president? Even if he had not been a Kennedy, what followed was stunning: a hesitant, rambling and incoherent nonanswer; it seemed to go on forever without arriving anywhere. Mudd threw another softball, and Kennedy swung and missed again. On the simple question that would define him and his political destiny, Kennedy had no clue.

When it was over, Mudd took off his microphone and wandered down to the seawall alone. I followed him. To my amazement, the man then considered Walter Cronkite's heir apparent seemed convinced his interview was a bust. "You really think it went all right?" he kept asking. "I don't know. Kennedy's tough. He just doesn't give you anything."

I told him I was sure that Kennedy's stunning incoherence on the eve of his presidential campaign would be a huge story. (And, I realized to my chagrin, it was a story only television could capture; I couldn't possibly convey in print what had just happened on videotape.)


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TedKennedy/story?id=8436488

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
7. Then the party moved to the right
Sat May 9, 2015, 12:32 PM
May 2015

On Reagan, I don't understand the myth myself but too many people give too much credit for that one hit wonder with the US economy. I had something typed out but choose to delete it but with the embargo crippling the US economy as a top importer, plus Nixon removing the Gold Standard leading to the immediate inflation & so many issues that were simmering exploding by the time he got there. Things rebounded plus a Roaring 20's style economy got out just in-time for the Bush recession which was already impacted people with poverty increasing & African-Americans in a recession since the Reagan administration. Aside from the slick marketing ad commercials Mondale walked right into the "tax and spend" label.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
17. Jimmy Carter was one of the most liberal presidents we've had
Sat May 9, 2015, 01:22 PM
May 2015

He wasn't that great a "presidenting" at a very difficult time, but he was definitely very liberal. Yet he still wasn't liberal enough for the purists. As the article demonstrates.

Look at DU - Obama wasn't in office for a year when the purists who previously touted him as a demigod started shredding him. That's what they do - and then call it a revolution. They don't accomplish anything positive, but they sure do know how to tear our candidates down.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
25. There is so much revisionism around Jimmy Carter
Sat May 9, 2015, 02:29 PM
May 2015
Carter, not Reagan, pioneered the role of the fiscally conservative governor who runs against the mess in Washington, promising to shrink the bureaucracy and balance the budget. Early in his administration, Carter was praised by some on the right for his economic conservatism. Ronald Reagan even wrote a newspaper column titled “Give Carter a Chance.” The most conservative Democrat in the White House since Grover Cleveland, Carter fought most of his battles with Democratic liberals, not Republican conservatives.



http://www.salon.com/2011/02/08/lind_reaganism_carter/



I believe it's safe to say he's a more liberal ex president but his views on choice and same sex marriage, marijuana legalization are to the right of many Democrats.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
33. Oddly enough, he got a lot of good publicity by palling
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:05 PM
May 2015

around with The Allman Brothers during the primaries,they were all full fledged junkies at the time.

I read Gregg Allman's autobiography recently, the first time they met Jimmy Carter was when Carter called them to the Governor"s mansion late one night and they found him sitting on the steps of the mansion,shirtless. I think Carter was a liberal who knew how to play to Southerners and Midwesterners on their own field.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
39. He also quoted Bob Dylan in his acceptance speech
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:15 PM
May 2015

The line, "He who is not busy being born in busy dying" is popular with politicians. Jimmy Carter used the line in his acceptance speech at the 1976 Democratic Convention.

Carter said "America is a country busy being born, not dying."



sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
43. Yeah, I remember that. I wonder if Carter was the first
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:21 PM
May 2015

presidential candidate to so blatantly cozy up to the rock and roll crowd.He regularly showed up at Allman Brother concerts and did a 3 minute speech before they started playing.


DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
44. In some ways he was a very adroit politician...
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:23 PM
May 2015

In some ways he was a very adroit politician and realized that would give him credibility among young people...

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
45. I think Carter had very good instincts when it came to how to
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:30 PM
May 2015

appeal to middle America,how far they can be lead and where they're willing to go,I feel the same about Bill Clinton.It's no coincidence that they're both from the South.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
41. I was too young to vote but I would have supported Jerry Brown.
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:16 PM
May 2015

He actually came in late and won a few primaries.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
52. O, Lord--
Sat May 9, 2015, 06:39 PM
May 2015

Memories of that era. Governor Moonbeam, Linda Ronstadt, Jerry's simple digs instead of the Governor's Mansion--

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
54. Um...
Sun May 10, 2015, 04:42 AM
May 2015

The "purists" have found a candidate. His name is Bernie Sanders and he represents traditional liberal values and fights for the working class, i.e. all the people who get a paycheck. The "purists" on this board are pretty happy about it too.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
55. Yeah - just like they found Obama
Sun May 10, 2015, 06:45 AM
May 2015

In 2007. Then he started governing and of course they hated him. That's how they roll.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
35. It wasn't a year until Obama started using Bush era arguments
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:09 PM
May 2015

to block the release of torture photos in contrast to his day 1 memos in favor of transparency & the idea that things should be hidden because it may embarrass or various other reasons including "subjective fears" which he uses routinely. I didn't start becoming really bothered until I heard about Bagram and arguing against detainees using Habeaes Corupus to challenge their detention -- indefinite detention facilities being. I was legitimately upset over this & more and now worried it will take years to walk back from Bush era policies but I was feeling torn down with pony, purists, 3D chess, all kind of nonsense. I know what you mean like when I posted that Obama took his daughter to school and someone was slamming him for the secret service guzzling gas but that poster was banned.

Carter was great but so many weren't purists just not happy with the present situation so they became Reagan Democrats who Obama chooses to white wash for some reason, maybe to capture some of that Reagan aura I don't know but Obama in his own words

"He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like, you know, with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s, and government had grown and grown, but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people just tapped into -- he tapped into what people were already feeling, which was, we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.

"I think Kennedy, 20 years earlier, moved the country in a fundamentally different direction. So I think a lot of it just has to do with the times.

"I think we are in one of those times right now, where people feel like things as they are going, aren't working, that we’re bogged down in the same arguments that we’ve been having and they’re not useful. And the Republican approach I think has played itself out.

"I think it’s fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years, in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom. Now, you’ve heard it all before. You look at the economic policies that are being debated among the presidential candidates, it’s all tax cuts. Well, we’ve done that. We’ve tried it. It’s not really going to solve our energy problems, for example…so some of it’s the times.”

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/politics/21seelye-text.html

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
42. These are fundamentally different times
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:20 PM
May 2015

Whatever happened in the 70s has no application to today in terms of Bernie's viability. The pendulum has swinged the other side, and its starting to swing back.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
47. I'm out there arguing the same thing pretty much
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:43 PM
May 2015

I just thought the article was a good read and don't feel it applies to today because I almost included a full disclaimer detailing my thoughts on McGovern because I've seen so many landslide predictions as triangulation is the only way to win when the religious right, tea party, and the crazies destroyed the party. I'm not sure what pendulum means but if its anything like momentum I don't believe in it, the demographic trends are slipping particularly in southern states including Arizona who still has a long way to go but the west coast & northeast are locks. Ohio or Florida victories clinch it Mountain & Pacific Time zone ballots close in terms of odds & probability. Bernie Sanders isn't the kind that tries to come across as honest in a way that's phony & a lot of things -- he favors policies that most Americans do as well.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
50. Carter ran as a social liberal / fiscal conservative
Sat May 9, 2015, 04:05 PM
May 2015

At the time he was seen closer in fiscal policy to Clinton today.

His long history as an elder statesman has brought him many fans who do not remember his administration or the events of the day.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
2. In political science it's known as 'The pendulum effect"
Sat May 9, 2015, 12:15 PM
May 2015

The pendulum doesn't just swing to the right.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
6. When was the last time Democrats held the Presidency for a 3rd term in a row?
Sat May 9, 2015, 12:29 PM
May 2015

A long time ago.

So now more and more states are red and redder, they have both the Senate and the House, the Supreme Court is right-wing, you're telling me the country is swinging back to the left?

No worries?

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
8. The DEMOCRATIC PARTY is swinging back to the left
Sat May 9, 2015, 12:34 PM
May 2015

The country has taken a hard turn to the right because the Dem party has been overrun with right wing Stockholm Syndrome.

Once these quazi Republicans are marginalized/shunned out of the party, the country can start swinging back to normalcy.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
15. But you do undertand Democratic defeats.
Sat May 9, 2015, 01:11 PM
May 2015

Carter served one term, the OP is arguing if we had gone all the way socialist we could have snatched victory from defeat. This is what you are now proposing, and you actually have a "socialist" candidate in the race.

You are telling me this country is ready to elect - even if only a perception - a more left-wing candidate than ever before? And now is the time to ditch the Democratic frontrunner.

I hope your right. But I'm gonna need proof. Not there yet.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
20. You really need to take a basic course in poly sci
Sat May 9, 2015, 01:57 PM
May 2015

This is very basic, standard stuff. It isn't 1979, it is 2015. I will never understand Democratic defeatism.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
13. Is that more Clinton? More Obama?
Sat May 9, 2015, 12:59 PM
May 2015

When was the last time we had a Democratic president? You all are confusing me.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
14. That's "more centrist".
Sat May 9, 2015, 01:05 PM
May 2015

A lot of people are concerned that someone like Bernie can't win in the general, but IMO a shift away from centrism could invigorate rank-and-file Dems.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
18. How is it "swinging" back?
Sat May 9, 2015, 01:24 PM
May 2015

Republicans control every branch of government except the presidency. And they may soon get that too thanks to the purists who think it's cool to tear down our candidates.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
19. The Democratic party is swinging back to the left.
Sat May 9, 2015, 01:53 PM
May 2015

Once that happens the electorate will follow.

I will never understand Democratic defeatism. Defeatism is the acceptance of defeat without struggle. In some it has metamorphosed into a form of Stockholm Syndrome.

Response to MaggieD (Reply #18)

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
26. What did you expect during a primary? Or did you not want a primary?
Sat May 9, 2015, 02:42 PM
May 2015

People have real concerns about candidates. You know, it was not gonna be like -

Hillary - I want to be President!

Bernie, Martin, every other candidate - Oh, okay!

What is a purist to you - someone who does not want Hillary as a candidate? Someone who cares what she stands for? You are the purist, only driven by personality and not issues.
Plus - there is nothing anyone can say about Hillary (or any other candidate) that the GOP does not already know. And they are going through the same process.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
29. How about you take your cue from Sanders
Sat May 9, 2015, 02:55 PM
May 2015

Who has never run a negative ad in his life? Oh the irony of his supporters here. They spend day in and day out tearing up Dem candidates on behalf of a guy who has never run a negative ad in his life. And no matter how much evidence we have that that sort of thing depresses turn out for democrats, the purists just keep at it.

What is a purist? Some one who never found a candidate in their own party they couldn't bash. Remember when Obama was the demigod of choice here? I do. But he hadn't been in office one year when the purists started trashing him here.

Hell, there are posts in this thread going on right now where posters are claiming Carter was not liberal enough. Some people live in la la land when it comes to politics.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
34. Tearing down democrats is not a recipe for victory
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:07 PM
May 2015

And that is exactly what purists do. The extreme left in this country has never accomplished anything of note.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
36. Same strawman, different post
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:09 PM
May 2015

You are complaining that folks who disagree with you are 'tearing down' other Dems, then you bash them, aka tear them down.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
40. That sounds like the rethug canard...
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:15 PM
May 2015

... that if we libs are intolerant of bigots that makes us bigots. LOL!

Look, there is nothing to be gained by "liberals" tearing down Democratic candidates. Just nothing. Not one fucking thing. Can you show me how that has EVER been a viable strategy?

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
49. How about giving examples of how "purists" here lined up to tear down Democrats after elections?
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:51 PM
May 2015

I'm always interested to read that part…

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
37. "Purist", "basher", and "hater" are all large neon "Don't take me seriously" signs.
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:14 PM
May 2015

Ad hominem attacks cut both ways: they might convince your listener that X is bad, or they might convince your listener that you have no arguments of substance and are dishonest.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
48. I'd bash Sanders if he was wrong on any issue I feel he is wrong on
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:49 PM
May 2015

Nothing personal, he keeps it focused on idea. I never bashed Obama over Rezko, Bill Ayers, or Jeremiah Wright which is something I can't say the same for Hillary Clinton. I also favored the ideas of candidate Obama over those of President Obama. Outside of school privatization, it wasn't like the open & transparent turned out to be open & transparent.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
32. You should read "The Other America" and "Toward A Democratic Left"
Sat May 9, 2015, 03:04 PM
May 2015

The former of which JFK credited for informing his thinking about poverty.

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