In a nutshell: Seymour Hersh is full of shit.

[trumad]

And this Vox piece proves it:

<snip>
The story simply does not hold up to scrutiny — and, sadly, is in line with Hersh's recent turn away from the investigative reporting that made him famous into unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

A decade ago, Hersh was one of the most respected investigative journalists on the planet, having broken major stories from the My Lai massacre in 1969 to the Abu Ghraib scandal in 2004. But more recently, his reports have become less and less credible. He's claimed that much of the US special forces is controlled by secret members of Opus Dei, that the US military flew Iranian terrorists to Nevada for training, and that the 2013 chemical weapons attack in Syria was a "false flag" staged by the government of Turkey. Those reports have had little proof and, rather than being borne out by subsequent investigations, have been either unsubstantiated or outright debunked. A close reading of Hersh's bin Laden story suggests it is likely to suffer the same fate.

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

[leveymg]

1. This Vox hit piece lays out a contravening theory among many theories.

It doesn't prove "it," whatever that might be.

I agree, however, that some of Hersh's article is inadequately sourced. Nonetheless, that doesn't make it "full of shit."

[KittyWampus]

2. LOL. A story that is "inadequately sourced" is therefore LITERALLY full of what?

Come on… what is a story made of of things other than accurate, first hand sources?

It's full of…..

[leveymg]

7. It makes it like the great bulk of journalism and Intelligence analysis -

assesses information sources, and draws conclusions from available evidence that is rarely A-1. Look up Intelligence source and information reliability and methods of investigative journalism. The important thing is that conclusions aren't mistaken for facts, and that sources are fairly weighted.

The sources cited for this article, in my opinion, aren't sufficient. But, that doesn't make them or the author's conclusions wrong.

[Cha]

3. thank you. From your link, trumad

"The evidence for all this is Hersh's conversations with two people: Asad Durrani, who ran Pakistan's military intelligence service from 1990 to 1992, and "a retired senior intelligence official who was knowledgeable about the initial intelligence about bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad." Read that line again: knowledgeable about the initial intelligence. Not exactly a key player in this drama, and anonymous at that.

Hersh produces no supporting documents or proof, nor is the authority of either source established. We are given no reason to believe that either Durrani or the "knowledgeable official" would have even second- or thirdhand knowledge of what occurred, yet their word is treated as gospel. His other two sources are anonymous "consultants" who are vaguely described as insiders.

[Vinca]

4. What's his motive? Is he pimping a book?

[Gothmog]

5. Hersh is full of it

This report does not make sense

[Cha]

6. Rude Pundit thinks so too..

"The killing (of Osama bin Laden) was the high point of Obama’s first term, and a major factor in his re-election." That's the second sentence of the 10,000 word article, and it's utter bullshit."

snip//

"The risks for Obama were high at this early stage, especially because there was a troubling precedent: the failed 1980 attempt to rescue the American hostages in Tehran...After all, as the retired (American) official said, ‘If the mission fails, Obama’s just a black Jimmy Carter and it’s all over for re-election.’"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026659643

[MattSh]

8. It seems that Max Fisher, the author of the Vox article, has integrity issues of his own...

Vox’s Max Fisher’s embarrassing errors about Hebron - The Washington Post

I’m not writing “definitive” analyses for Vox, but I was aware of the basics of Jewish history in Hebron, which if nothing else are readily available on the Internet, and, I daresay, are well-known to anyone with a reasonably broad knowledge of the Arab-Israeli conflict, given the importance of the Hebron massacre in spurring Jews to create and expand self-defense organizations, and the importance of Hebron in the current situation. If Fisher both doesn’t know such basics, and is too lazy to look them up, he has no business writing about the West Bank, period.

Complete story at - http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/06/21/voxs-max-fisher-doesnt-know-what-hes-talking-about/

[trumad]

9. It does not refute what he wrote about Hersh.

[Mojorabbit]

23. +1000 nt

[CrawlingChaos]

30. Very helpful. Thanks (nt)

[iandhr]

10. It's sad

Hersh used to be such a respected journalist. No he is going to be remembered for pushing a crackpot conspiracy theories to get attention instead of his previous accomplishements

[SidDithers]

11. DU rec...nt

Sid

[McKim]

12. Really?

I doubt very much that Sy Hersch is "full of shit". He is a respected journalist with a long record of integrity. The question to ask is
who is spreading this story and who might benefit from it.

[trumad]

14. use to be...

Not any more

[ChiciB1]

19. My Thoughts Exactly!! Amy Goodman Is No

Crank IMO and she just interviewed him. He may not always have everything EXACTLY right, but with OUR MSM who DOES NOT "do" INVESTIGATIVE stuff makes me wonder a lot!

Plus, who's pushing TPP again? Who's attacking Warren? Sorry, methinks there's a crumb here to two. I voted for Obama twice, he's IS to the right of me, I think he's been skewered relentlessly but I'm not a lemming.

I already commented at another post and EXPECT to get attacked, but I have thick skin. Posting what I feel, not going to play point counter point on this. I'll read what others have to say, but for me I felt a need to put my 2 cents in!

[Mojorabbit]

24. I agree and it is not often you see such a huge coordinated attack on

someone's integrity. May be he hit too close to the bone for some of the ptb

[grasswire]

26. reminiscent of the brutal attacks on Greenwald, Bob Parry, and others of our best...

...investigative journalists.

[Augiedog]

13. Just more rightwingnut crap

If presidential assistant George w Bush had managed to kill Bin Laden we would be seeing another head being craved into Mount Rushmore (dickless cheneys'). The desperate need for the the extremist and mainstream republicrats to marginalize President Obamas' successful terms is almost pathological. They have done everything they can possibly think of, which explains their lack of success, to harm president Obama. This includes harming mainstream America economically. If America perceives a "Them or Other" as being competent and resourceful it damages the argument that evangelicals and extremists have been pounding on. The calm and cool that Obama has displayed in dire situations is almost Hollywood. Cracking jokes at a dinner, much to Donald "the duck" trumps expense, while bin laden is being killed is truly legendary, and this scares the bejesus out of the rapturous right. Presidential assistant George "heh heh heh" Bushs' legacy is that of intense bafoonery combined with a slathering of insane evil.

[Fuddnik]

15. Pakistanis Knew Where Osama Bin Laden Was, U.S. Sources Say

By Matthew Cole, Richard Esposito, Robert Windrem and Andrea Mitchell

Two intelligence sources tell NBC News that the year before the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden, a "walk in" asset from Pakistani intelligence told the CIA where the most wanted man in the world was hiding - and these two sources plus a third say that the Pakistani government knew where bin Laden was hiding all along.

The U.S. government has always characterized the heroic raid by Seal Team Six that killed bin Laden as a unilateral U.S. operation, and has maintained that the CIA found him by tracking couriers to his walled complex in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

The new revelations do not necessarily cast doubt on the overall narrative that the White House began circulating within hours of the May 2011 operation. The official story about how bin Laden was found was constructed in a way that protected the identity and existence of the asset, who also knew who inside the Pakistani government was aware of the Pakistani intelligence agency's operation to hide bin Laden, according to a special operations officer with prior knowledge of the bin Laden mission. The official story focused on a long hunt for bin Laden's presumed courier, Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.

While NBC News has long been pursuing leads about a "walk in" and about what Pakistani intelligence knew, both assertions were made public in a London Review of Books article by investigative reporter Seymour Hersh. Hersh's story, published over the weekend, raises numerous questions about the White House account of the SEAL operation. It has been strongly disputed both on and off the record by the Obama administration and current and former national security officials.

(snip)

Well, maybe on second look.................

Next thing you know, Hersh will write something nasty about TPP.

[ChiciB1]

20. BINGO! n/t

[trumad]

22. Andrea Mitchell. ..

Ok...gotcha

[stevenleser]

16. What I find interesting is those who talk about other DUers being authoritarian are very

authoritarian about their heroes.

You're not allowed to criticize Hersh, Sanders, Greenwald, Manning, Assange or Snowden, etc. You must believe them and worship them or else!

[grasswire]

27. straw man

but you knew that.

[freshwest]

29. This sums up my opinion of the STHU'ers:

Sorry, I don't play that game.

[LeftinOH]

17. The "Pierre Salinger late-career derailment."

That's my term for it, anyways.

[66 dmhlt]

18. CARL SAGAN: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

[DefenseLawyer]

21. The idea that anything happens in Pakistan without the knowledge of the ISI is hard to believe

but then again, anyone in a position to publicly confirm Hersh's story never would, so I doubt we will ever really know.

[KoKo]

25. Interesting that Max Fisher article ends with video of Cass Sunstein

interview talking about "Conspiracy Theories."

Seems Fisher or his Editor are going way out of their way to try to prove their view that Sy has gone off the rails.

A bit too much of Sunstein influence, there, I'd say, considering Sunstein's outrageous proposals to spread disinformation on websites.

[Gothmog]

28. Here is a good CNN article on why Hersh's story falls apart

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/11/opinions/bergen-bin-laden-story-a-lie/index.html

[Warren DeMontague]

31. He definitely seems to have ranged off the reality reservation, in the past 10 years.

It's too bad, because once upon a time his name carried some real weight.