General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSenator Boxer on the secrecy of the trade deal“The guard says, ‘you can’t take notes.’
They said, well, its very transparent. Go down and look at it, said Boxer on the floor of the Senate. Let me tell you what you have to do to read this agreement. Follow this: you can only take a few of your staffers who happen to have a security clearance because, God knows why, this is secure, this is classified. It has nothing to do with defense. It has nothing to do with going after ISIS.
Boxer, who has served in the House and Senate for 33 years, then described the restrictions under which members of Congress can look at the current TPP text.
The guard says, you cant take notes. I said, I cant take notes? Boxer recalled. Well, you can take notes, but have to give them back to me, and Ill put them in a file. So I said: Wait a minute. Im going to take notes and then youre going to take my notes away from me and then youre going to have them in a file, and you can read my notes? Not on your life.
Instead of standing in a corner, trying to figure out a way to bring a trade bill to the floor that doesnt do anything for the middle class that is held so secretively that you need to go down there and hand over your electronics and give up your right to take notes and bring them back to your office they ought to come over here and figure out how to help the middle class, Boxer said.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/12/can-read-notes-life-top-democratic-senator-blasts-obamas-tpp-secrecy/
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I like that "The Pig in the Poke" it would be funny, if this was not so blasted serious of an issue.
'We have to pass it to find out what's in it.'
cui bono
(19,926 posts)"you can't criticize it because it doesn't exist yet."
That is also one of my favorites brought up by many here on DU.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Oh - wait! This one is even stupider:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6659326
cui bono
(19,926 posts)and I'll raise you one idiotic:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6649703
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Corporate stooge.
cali
(114,904 posts)purposely prevaricating.
It is. No other proposed trade agreement has been classified for national security reasons. Other trade agreements have been far less secretive- as the NYT noted:
<snip>
The office of the United States Trade Representative has said that negotiators need to communicate with each other with a high degree of candor, creativity and mutual trust. To create the conditions necessary to successfully reach agreements in complex trade and investment negotiations, governments routinely keep their proposals and communications with each other confidential.
But previous trade agreements were shared more openly and despite the secrecy efforts, portions of the document have been leaking out, through WikiLeaks and other organizations.
<snip>
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/business/unpacking-the-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal.html?_r=0
wolfie001
(2,265 posts)They don't work in the real world. They sit around and figure out where their few donated dollars can "do the most good"....lol....like screwing over people who actually work for a living. Just pure speculation but no True-Blue-Dem could/can ever support this putrid piece of pro-business stank!
cali
(114,904 posts)that they can't see the proverbially forest for the trees. And there's certainly a lot of evidence for that in numerous posts.
wolfie001
(2,265 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)their blind loyalty to Bush.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)They are the same people who would raise a stink about a wedding party being bombed, but tell us it is just collateral damage now. Cult of personality.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And I think I know the reason for it but if I say it I'll get flamed or hidden. But it seems pretty clear to me.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)They are wanting to make points so they can get the million dollar speaking and book fees that Wall Street pays for. It will even take care the children like Chelsea getting $75,000 to speak. They have to see us out so they can get their Platinum parachutes.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)it does what corrupt politicians cannot do legislatively due to the public outcry that would result. Obama has sealed his legacy.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)of the middle class. I'm very sad to have to face that fact.
I forgave the fact that he did not bail out homeowners, that he did not prosecute crooked bankers (except those with no political clout), that he appointed fat-cats to high positions instead of representatives of the people like Robert Reich, that he suggested chained CPI, that he appointed a cat-food commission, that he is permitting oil drilling in the Arctic and other places that endanger the environment. He redeemed himself somewhat by not yet signing off on the XL pipeline and by fighting for net neutrality. But when it comes to these crucial economic issues, Obama is not on our side.
This trade agreement even with some absolutely unenforceable, under no agreement or system enforceable clause on currency valuation, will ruin the American middle class and working people even more than we have already been ruined.
And President Obama continues to insist that it could be a good thin.
Nonsense. If it is a good thing, let us see it.
If it is completed to the point that Congress members can with a handful of aides read it but not take out notes on it, then it is finished enough that the citizens can read it.
What kind of government do we have that such an important "treaty" which is more than merely an international agreement but which affects the enforceability of our domestic, democratically determined laws is a state secret?
We are way beyond representative government. Obama is not even pretending that we the people have any say in our government when he tries to push this agreement which would deeply and decidedly impact our personal lives and the economic health of our society on us without nary and apology and without allowing us to read it.
The hubris. The sheer arrogance of it is disgusting.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)TPP seals Obama legacy as the president of the .001%, Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, vulture corporations, and others who would make slaves of those who actually work for a living!
I can't say that he has disappointed me as I knew his record before he was elected but held my nose and hoped for the best.
While I do not regret walking over 300 miles to get the guy elected (as I lost a ton of weight!), I regret that we were unable to get true Democrats elected as opposed to these neo-liberal, faux Democrats.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,195 posts)"This trade deal is not like the others -- no sir, it fixes all the problems in all previous trade agreements ever entered into, almost guarantees full employment, will raise wages in all countries by at least ten percent, and will end the heartbreak of psoriasis once and for all."
"How does it do all that?"
"Sorry, can't tell you. It's classified. National security, you know. Just trust us. We're professionals and we know more than you do."
Which is a fine argument, I suppose. Until it dawns on you that it was also 'professionals' who designed and built the Titanic.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Talk about GHW Bush's 'new world order' its right out of his playbook, its the corporate takeover and control of this planet.
Its one of the biggest sociological, political and environmental play for power ever by the banks and international corporations
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)Exactly!
Buns_of_Fire
(17,195 posts)But the President's been bitten by the "legacy" bug, and I don't think there's any cure. This particular POS legislation may mutate, but I fear it'll keep coming back in one form or another until it passes.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Ford_Prefect
(7,919 posts)After all they are only contract employees and one must ask who bid the current contract? Or the next one?
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Fight this, DEMS. Fight this with all you have. JUST SAY NO to TPP.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....
Well, if TPP looks like a turd,.....
(Koch brothers' father was a founder of the Birch Society.)
Omaha Steve
(99,711 posts)K&R!
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
vote against it like Reid and Schummer did instead of abstaining?
Step up Barbara!!
NuttyFluffers
(6,811 posts)love my senator Boxer.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)As if. Like they helped the poor. Nothing.
Thank you for the heads-up, Ichingcarpenter. Something stinks about secret government and it's starting to get obvious.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)sniffing the hindquarters of corporate capitalism-in-rut.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Every call you make to your Reps, Sens and WH is worth 4,000 constituents voices, so call now.
Whitehouse Comments: 202-456-1111
United States Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121
wolfie001
(2,265 posts)Gawds, we're just soooo naïve.......boo hoo. Has bullshit ever been so openly displayed? Except outside on a field?
Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)Tarp one & two bailouts, no prosecutions for breaking financial laws, no interest on loans, federal subsidies to ship factories overseas, legal tax havens, and historical low income tax rates.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Do we have a democracy, or not.
Why won't the media talk about this? Why is it so secretive? A fair and unbiased media is essential to a democracy.
This TPP and everything surrounding it is so much bullshit.
Overseas
(12,121 posts)nyabingi
(1,145 posts)at this point in time that they are literally telling our elected officials what they can and can't do.
Hillary's silence on this issue speaks volumes and I wish Obama would have fought this hard for inclusion of a public option in the ACA. Obama appears desperate at this point, feverishly trying to fulfill the wishes of the constituency he ultimately views as being the most important to support.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Kim Kardashian's butt. They don't seem to realize that the media's credibility is little better than a stiff-legged feral hog lying by a Texas roadside, blow flies buzzing like a saw mill.
underpants
(182,879 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)kicking for exposure.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Let the smearing begin.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)about his true character.
We saw who he really was and what moral compass he possesses when he had his surrogate, Rahm Emmanuel, call liberal Democrats retards (an offensive word choice in any context).
Goldman Sacks did not get him elected; 1000s of unpaid volunteers who traveled across this nation at their own expense going house to house, manning phones, talking to neighbors for months got the guy elected (as did Howard Dean's 50-state strategy). Then he unzipped his fly and relieved himself on us.
Barbara Boxer has a national following as does Elizabeth Warren. If Obama tries to smear and marginalize Barbara Boxer as he did Elizabeth Warren, he will merely look petulant and petty: A little spoiled brat who whines and name-calls when he doesn't get his own way.
I am so proud that all but one "Democrat" in the Senate gave Obama the one-finger salute that he deserves for his behavior and his selling out of the American people and our representative democracy.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Last edited Wed May 13, 2015, 08:47 PM - Edit history (2)
...in such a way. However, it could be because he thought it was safe to have unleashed on the lawmarkers telling the truth, the very lawmarkers having the best interests of Americans in mind and not the interests of corporations.
Yes, indeedy the Pres. would appear petulant and petty if he unleashed on Sen. Barbara Boxer, especially now since all but one Sen said no to fast tracking TPP. This vote underlines how out of touch he has been.
I've tried to give Pres. Obama the benefit of doubt until TPP came up two yrs ago--no excuse that can be made for his support.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)He said she was lying and could see the draft any time she wanted. And all of this ruckus was so she could get campaign contributions.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)notably absent on this thread.
I guess Sen. Boxer's truth is a little too much for them to paper over and ignore.
SwankyXomb
(2,030 posts)They're waiting for talking points. Can't get paid if you don't parrot them correctly.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Pres. Obama.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)The executive prerogative for negotiating treaties doesn't preclude Congress from voting in accord with their duty as they see it.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)And I hate to use the terms together, but one is going on before our eyes. The last vestige of social cohesion will wither, ironically, right before us.
What we have here is no less than the international revolution of capitalism, borne from the ideas of Trotsky's international socialism. The capitalists, in their reactionary fervor, adapted, and revolutionized the world and organization from the top down. They ensured that the international proletariat would factionalize, and to cue the coup de grace, made it possible for international capitalists to find common cause. Capital can cross national boundaries, while labor remains isolated. There is solidarity, not of labor, but of the wealthy class. And so, top-down authoritarianism has won, and won, ironically, by a man who is pejoratively called a socialist.
It's actually quite brilliant ... If you're part of the owning class.
gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)... about this fucking thing for more than two years. I'm glad the people who are supposed to know about this shit have finally started paying attention. let's just hope it's not too late.
rbnyc
(17,045 posts)I could have said that myself.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)Obama figures he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain on his speaking tours which, thanks to Bill and Hillary, should be worth about $500,000 a shot. And we know the man can give some damn fine speeches.
nikto
(3,284 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)THIS IS Ridiculous!!!
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)A United States Senator, elected from the most populous state in the Union, is prohibited from taking notes on a bill she will have to vote on. Corporate democracy at work.