Gouging the Sick: Hightower on TPP

[eridani]

For an example of the reactionary reality, look at a couple of little favors this deal would do for Big Pharma.

First, it would extend the number of years that a pharmaceutical giant can keep a patent on its brand-name drugs. Not only would this artificially dump more monopoly profits into the coffers of drugmakers, it would simultaneously postpone competition from the makers of cheaper generic drugs — an especially dangerous delay for low-income people who are ill.

A second provision would restrict public regulation of drug prices by any of the 12 countries that are forging the accord. This would nix the people’s sovereign right to remedy price gouging by corporate profiteers that hold monopolies on life-saving medicines.

The folks pushing this snake oil assert that we should not bother our little heads with worry about its details.

But it’s filled with gotchas like these gifts to Big Pharma. They have nothing to do with trade — and everything to do with global elites secretively, deceitfully, and immorally agreeing among themselves to steal power from us.
;

[MaggieD]

1. Absolutely

And that's a kitchen table issue everyone can understand. This is at least one issue you should talk to your reps about and tell your oblivious neighbors about.

[X_Digger]

2. Where are our resident TPP cheerleaders?

I'm curious how they think this will actually improve the lives of *anyone* except big pharma execs.

[PosterChild]

11. Well, when I mentioned that...

...trade deals like the TPP tend to move our economy away from low paying unskilled labor and to increase high skilled higher paying jobs, I was rewarded with a rant about how we fund research and development efforts and that the TPP would give it away through trade, rather than us keeping it all to ourselves.

Well, that's what the TPP patent and copyright provisions are all about, making sure our high tech, creative efforts can't be ripped off by other countries. That includes drugs and medicine.

If American taxpayers support medical research and American pharmaceutical companies come up with novel therapies, why should asian countries get the benifit without paying back on our investment and reducing our balence of trade deficit?

Sure, their citizens should get cheap medicines - at the expense of their taxpayers, not ours. Patent and copyright protections ensure that our public and private investments in scientific research, software and creative endeavors cannot be ripped off. And it is our high level of scientific, technology, engineering and math that makes our economy the most productive in the world.

The TPP, specifically the patent and copyright protections, will work to our advantage because we are the scientific, technological, engineering and math leaders of the world.

[X_Digger]

12. Fuck those third world people, they're probably brown anyway. And generics? Bah- insurance..

.. will likely cover it, so who cares if it's $1,200 a pill?? Nobody actually pays that much for it, right?

I mean, it's just business, right? It's not like people's lives are on the line. Almighty dollah, can I get an amen?!?

[PosterChild]

22. The people of the United States don't . ...

..... owe other countries free heath care ... or even discount heath care. If they want to provide health care to their citizens it's up to their citizens to pay for it, not ours.

[X_Digger]

23. Are you sure you're on the right site?

Of course there's also *our* citizens who can't pay for decent health care, and 'non-formulary' prescriptions.

Generics? Fuck em, a pharma exec needs a new Jag!

[PosterChild]

24. Yes I'm sure..,

... we owe our fellow citizens the health care they need, as part of our mutually reciprocal system of justice. But I don't expect the citizens of India to pay for it.

[X_Digger]

25. Awww, poor brown people don't count. How nice.

I think you might want to check your flag privilege at the door.

Especially on a day like today, m'kay?

[PosterChild]

27. You miss the point..

... the point is that the citizens of a country owe their fellow citizens justice preferentially to the citizens of other countries. Justice is a mutual, reciprocal relationship that holds when there is a mutual understanding of what does and does not constitute a just relationship and where it is reasonably certain that justice given will be returned.

Within a country these conditions prevale. We have laws that we mutually understand and effective institutions for adjudicating disputes and enforcing just behavior. That is, we share a system of justice.

Between countries these conditions do not exist. We do not have a shared system of justice.

Trade agreements are a means to (imperfectly) extend systems of justice to partially encompass one another and to, maybe, allow for greater integration in the future.

Copyright and patent protections are a basic asspect of our conception of justice, specifically authorized in our Constitution. I think it is reasonable, in fact essential, that other countries respect those rights if we are to enter into agreements with them. I'm not willing to give up what we have created unless they are willing to pay for it.

[X_Digger]

28. Justice = NO GENERICS! (Or some such silly bullshit.)

Daddy Pillbucks needs a new pair of Ferragamos!

Poor big pharma, getting picked on by the big, mean gubbamint. *sniff*

[PosterChild]

29. Justice = respect for . ..

.... the efforts and abilities of your fellow citizens to make scientific discoveries and to apply them to solving human problems. Or some such silly bullshit.

[X_Digger]

30. Into perpetuity! Patents for LIFE!

You know, society-- the framework that all these pill companies take advantage of- educational systems, financial and banking systems, transportation infrastructure, medical facilities, research universities..

They are what makes scientific discovery possible.

In return? Creators are *limited* in how long their creations are their exclusive domain. Eventually, THEY PAY SOCIETY BACK.

Fucking greedy shits.

[PosterChild]

31. Nobody that I know of...

....has advocated patents for life, least of all me. Though even for life is not forever.

We all know that patents provide a selfish incentive for scientific and technical endeavors but that incentive comes at a price that is not always understood: Public disclosure.

To get a patent you have to publically disclose what would be otherwise protected as a trade secret. That, along with their limited duration, provides a major part of their societal benifit. To get the shorter term selfish gain you have to provide to others the information necessary to make use of the discovery later and to build upon it in the future.

This asspect is what is exploited by other countries that do not respect our patent law. They take advantage of the public disclosure without providing anything in return. I think that's wrong and that we should press for stronger patent and copyright protections in our trade agreements. And if they believe $1,200 per pill is too much for any one person to pay, all 1.200 billion of them can pitch in a penny each to help out.

[X_Digger]

34. Poor little pharma execs. Bullies saving lives, denying them profit.

How's an exec supposed to maintain three houses when all these little brown people are using their drugs without paying $200 per pill?!? Fuckers should just die if they can't afford it, amirite?

[PosterChild]

38. You've said that about...

...three or four times now. Got anything new to add?

[X_Digger]

41. Sure.. so how many 'ultra-cool' new tech jobs is this mega-pharma-corp-protect supposed to generate?

I mean, if it's replacing "low paying unskilled labor" jobs, surely the benefit is worth it, right?

All those day laborers and fast food workers will be retrained as chemists, right?



Fucking stupid shit.

[djean111]

32. That would be real cool and all that - except that "WE" don't keep the profits,

the corporations do (paying as little tax on them as possible), and "we" have to pay the same high prices as the rest of the world. Basically, this ensures that NOBODY gets cheap medicines, and that Big Pharma gets, and keeps, the profit. Which does not trickle down.

[PosterChild]

35. As fellow citizens living under....

... a rule of law we can take care of each other in any number of ways, just as the Canadians do for themselves. That doesn't mean we owe free or even discount medications to all the peoples of the world.

We are talking about a trade agreement aren't we? We are supposed to get something in return, right ?

[djean111]

39. In a country where Medicare is not allowed to negotiate lower prices for drugs,

and a country where those who don't have insurance, or who have shit insurance, or those with Medicare, have to do without medication or ration medication, or choose between food and medications (had to do all three of those for my son who has PTSD) - in this case, the TPP merely intends to inflict the same shit on other countries, for the profit of a few.

Who is this "we" you speak of? The corporations are the ones who profit, the rest of us have realized that nothing is going to trickle down.

[TBF]

40. "We are the scientific, technological, engineering and math leaders of the world"

In which universe?

Overall rankings
Rankings based on maths and science, at age 15
(these are very recent - May 13, 2015)

1. Singapore
2. Hong Kong
3. South Korea
4. Japan
4. Taiwan
6. Finland
7. Estonia
8. Switzerland
9. Netherlands
10. Canada
11. Poland
12. Vietnam

United States - #28

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32608772

[awoke_in_2003]

33. He appeared by the 5th post

Guess he is a little slow today.

[PosterChild]

37. Yes, got a few things to do around the house (nm)

[jwirr]

3. K&R

[Doctor_J]

4. drug profiteering was a huge part of the Heritage Care giveaway. sounds like this fits hand in hand

with that. I don't know whether the president's actually twelve moves ahead of everyone, but the lobbyists sure are. Was Obama duped into signing our healthcare over to the corporations, or was he in on it? At some point we'll find out.

[Hoyt]

5. Hightower doesn't know a lot about drug prices in poor countries.

He doesn't even know that traditional Medicare here can't negotiate drug prices. He too, needs to do a little research before writing articles trying to attract readership.

[eridani]

6. The TPP, if passed, will prevent Medicare from EVER doing so n/t

[Hoyt]

7. No it won't, where did you dream that up?

[eridani]

8. http://www.nationofchange.org/2015/05/24/gouging-the-sick/

A second provision would restrict public regulation of drug prices by any of the 12 countries that are forging the accord. This would nix the people’s sovereign right to remedy price gouging by corporate profiteers that hold monopolies on life-saving medicines.

[Hoyt]

10. See post #9. Hope you can come up with something better than The Nation of Change.

[bluesbassman]

14. See post #13.

[eridani]

20. Feel free to cite any Repuke publication in refutation n/t

[Hoyt]

21. There's nothing from any reputable source to cite. You and Hightower's are bunk.

It doesn't exist, and the only thing you have is BS from Nation of Change, quoting Hightower's crud.

[eridani]

42. Oh, right. All the unions and environmental groups are wrong

Corporations and Repukes are right. Aren't you even a little ashamed of the company you are keeping on this issue?

[Hoyt]

43. You can't find a citation on this issue from a Union or anyone else, but the clown Hightower quoted

in Nation of Change. Absolute BS, like most of the crud bandied about by self-styled "progressives" on the TPP.

[eridani]

44. OK--AFL-CIO is not a union. Got it.

http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/The-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Written-in-Secrecy-Could-Cost-U.S.-Jobs

IBEW isn't a union either, apparently.
http://www.ibew.org/articles/14daily/1405/140519_tpp.htm

[Hoyt]

45. Nothing in first link says the TPP will keep Medicare from negotiating drug prices.

The second link quotes some guy, like Hightower, who says TPP could make drugs cost more under Medicare, but no specific language, just bull.

[eridani]

46. Lots of organizations refuse to whore for corporations

Disgusting that DU has become a corporate whore hangout. Every single organization protecting people and environments is against this crap.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/june/trans-pacific-partnership-undermines-health-system

Doctors Without Borders criticized this practice, stating that patent protections in previous trade agreements raised the price of life-saving medications and made them unavailable to people in poorer countries. Patents prevent the production of low cost generic forms of medications. Yet it was the availability of generic medicines to treat HIV and other infectious diseases that allowed advances to be made in decreasing their impact in developing countries.

Because of the negative impact on public health from patent protections in previous trade agreements, such as the Korea Free Trade Agreement, former President Bush rolled some of these practices back. Unfortunately, the TPP will move them forward again.

In fact, the TPP goes farther than previous agreements by also requiring that surgical techniques, medical tests and treatments be patented. This will restrict the availability of these treatments, especially in health systems that have limited resources.

Doctors Without Borders also expressed concern that patent protections encourage innovation based on profit instead of the needs of people, particularly those in poor nations. Corporations do not see it as in their financial interest to address health conditions more prevalent in poor nations which do not have the financial resources to buy their products. But it is often in these situations treatments can have the greatest impact on quality of life.

[Hoyt]

9. That's your proof, Hightower in Nation of Change. LMAO.

They might get some things right, but interpreting something they call a "secret" agreement and think is going to enslave us, ain't one of them.

Sorry meant to reply to Eridani.

[bluesbassman]

13. You may have no respect for Jim Hightower and Nation of Change...

but perhaps Joseph Stiglitz and the New York Times carries some weight.

There are two ways the office of the trade representative can use the T.P.P. to maintain or raise drug prices and profits.

The first is to restrict competition from generics. It’s axiomatic that more competition means lower prices. When companies have to fight for customers, they end up cutting their prices. When a patent expires, any company can enter the market with a generic version of a drug. The differences in prices between brand-name and generic drugs are mind- and budget-blowing. Just the availability of generics drives prices down: In generics-friendly India, for example, Gilead Sciences, which makes an effective hepatitis-C drug, recently announced that it would sell the drug for a little more than 1 percent of the $84,000 it charges here.

That’s why, since the United States opened up its domestic market to generics in 1984, they have grown from 19 percent of prescriptions to 86 percent, by some accounts saving the United States government, consumers and employers more than $100 billion a year. Drug companies stand to gain handsomely if the T.P.P. limits the sale of generics.

The second strategy is to undermine government regulation of drug prices. More competition is not the only way to keep down the prices of essential goods and services. Governments can also directly restrain prices through law, or effectively restrain them by denying reimbursement to patients for “overpriced” drugs — thus encouraging companies to bring down their prices to approved levels. These regulatory approaches are especially important in markets where competition is limited, as it is in the drug market. If the United States Trade Representative gets its way, the T.P.P. will limit the ability of partner countries to restrict prices. And the pharmaceutical companies surely hope the “standard” they help set in this agreement will become global — for example, by becoming the starting point for United States negotiations with the European Union over the same issues.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/opinion/dont-trade-away-our-health.html?_r=0

[Hoyt]

17. Again, you need to study drug prices in poor countries. I certainly can see how failed ng to

recognize patent drugs, and essentially counterfeiting them, would result in lower prices there, higher prices here, and higher prices on other drugs to cover research costs. Stiglitz has lost more than a step or two, if your post is how he left it.

I'd love for our government to revise drug laws. But, until we decide to pony up the upfront investment for research and the costs of bringing a drug to market (through increased taxes, which we need for other thing too), new effective drugs are going to he expensive. All these self -styled progressives, aren't going to pay the upfront costs, that's clear.

[bluesbassman]

18. You should study how drug patents are actually used.

Very few drugs are actually "new". Most new drug patents are actually for a different application of an existing drug or combination of drugs to be used for a condition not related to the original drug's development. Regardless of how the drug was developed or re-patented, Stiglitz is talking about the expiration of these patents and the ability of any company to produce generic versions of these drug. Nowhere did Stiglitz imply, as you have, that these drugs should be counterfeited. You may wish for these huge Pharma companies to reap exorbitant profits in perpetuity but the reality is that during their patent time they make more than enough money to cover their R&D costs and buy a yacht or two for their CEOs.

[Hoyt]

19. I think recent federal court rulings may end much of that. And, I said we need

to revise drug patent laws. I've even posted in favor of laws that limit how much, and how long, research coats can be written off. In any event, failing to recognize reasonable patent laws and allowing counterfeiting - ad some of these countries do - isn't right.

I'd be fine with paying drug companies for their research cost and a reasonable profit (including failed drugs) , if you can convince tax payers to pony up the money .

[AzDar]

15. Despicable.

STOP THE TPP!

[WillyT]

16. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

26. This patent shit is horrible. I get why they need that protection for a short period of time

but if anything it is too long NOW..

god we are going to get fucked by this thing