I concede the point. Bernie's not a Real Democrat.

[Jackpine Radical]

A Real Democrat™ would have voted for the Iraq, war, would have supported Goldwater & stayed away from Selma in 1964, would never let themselves be arrested in a civil rights demonstration, would stay silent on Keystone and the TPP, would back everything Monsanto wants to do, and would rail against the demonization of Wall Street.

[cali]

1. I wish folks would just stop with the Goldwater

stuff. She was a kid.

[Nye Bevan]

3. Yeah, anyone who brings that up can't complain when people bring up Bernie's article about rape,

Last edited Sun May 31, 2015, 02:50 PM - Edit history (1)

and Elizabeth Warren's embracing of Reaganomics.

[silenttigersong]

10. really

Are you saying that essay Bernies fantasy?If so you should reread the essay.

[cui bono]

13. Bernie does not have a rape fantasy.

The way you wrote that in your title implies that he does. If that was not your intent it would be nice if you would edit it to not come across that way. Especially considering your post is in response to someone who is defending a candidate they don't particularly like.

[JDPriestly]

17. Nye, did you actually read the "rape fantasy" article.

It is a very compassionate discussion of the conflicts between men and women in the early 1970s at the beginning of the women's liberation movement. It is a good article that explains how women were rejecting the submissive role they had been taught to assume, and how men had to change to deal with women's rejection of that role.

Even then, even discussing sex, Bernie was a kind, compassionate, understanding individual.

Could you please post the link to the article you describe as a "rape fantasy." It is anything but a rape fantasy.

[Nye Bevan]

18. OK, I edited the post (nt)

[JDPriestly]

20. That's not a very helpful edit. The article is not about rape. It is about the conflict between

men and women back in the 1970s when women were struggling for liberation and an end to the submissive roles into which women were shoved for thousands of years in our culture. Please provide a link to Bernie's article which you have misrepresented.

[tarheelsunc]

22. Bit of a maturity difference should be expected between a 30+ year old man and a teenage girl. eom

[magical thyme]

31. Bernie's article was about how (many) men and society view women; it was not about rape

but I think you know that already. Your desparation is showing.

[quickesst]

32. I think...

...everybody knows that, just as everybody knows that the HRC / Goldwater thing is bullshit too, but.... They keep bringing it up. if someone feels offended by others comments on Bernies article, then they should know how HRC supporters feel about the Goldwater girl bullshit. if there is any desperation showing, it is not on the part HRC's supporters.

[magical thyme]

33. 2 things you are missing from this little exchange are

1. that HRC actually was a Goldwater girl at one time. Whereas Bernie never wrote an article about his rape fantasies or specifically about rape. So the poster in question was outright lying before he edited his post to be just stretching the truth, and

2. I didn't say that HRC supporters are desperate. Just the poster in question. Just like while the OP brought up Goldwater, possibly the strongest Bernie supporter at DU immediately cut that down.

In fact, a little earlier this morning I wrote the opposite about HRC. In another OP that suggested something HRC said showed she was worried about Bernie, while I agreed I thought she was referring to Bernie, I wrote that I didn't think it showed she was worried at all. In fact, on further thought I think one way she is glad he entered the race is because it positions her as not the oldest person running for president.

[quickesst]

36. yep...

...she was a Goldwater girl, and not every candy stripper wanted to be a nurse. They changed their views after maturing, and focused their efforts in a different direction. As far as bringing up the ridiculous meme,you'd probably be counting the references from the Hillary detractors till your next birthday, unless your birthday is tomorrow. I already told you the Bernie article has been misrepresented. No need to remind me of that, but just as something being twisted out of shape as his writing, so too has HRC's choices when she was a teenager. I believe both these topics should be sent to the trashcan. I withdraw my statement about "desperation". I really don't think many here are. I believe it's more gotcha, one-upmanship than anything.

On edit: my opinion is that age is not a factor where both of these candidates are concerned. Both are sharp as tacks, and will be for a long time.

[Jackpine Radical]

4. In general, I agree, and have posted as much.

I brought it up here to make a point about Bernie's civil rights record. I don't seriously hold long-ago transgressions against people.

[cui bono]

14. But people can change their minds politically, Warren was a Rdpublican as well.

If she were running and people kept bringing that up would we not tire of it and think it nonsense?

I agree with cali, we need to let that alone. She changed. Bringing up Bernie's civil rights record from the 60's is different in that it is used to illustrate that he has always championed the rights of minorities, in fact, the rights for ALL. It's a very different reason for bringing it up and is necessary considering the swiftboat attempts against Sanders. Let's not play their game.

[cui bono]

15. +1

[Avalux]

2. Bernie is Bernie.

And that is precisely why I am supporting him.

[jwirr]

5. With Bernie we get what we see.

[ruffburr]

6. Thank goodness-

There is but little difference between wing nuts and corporate democrats, As Bernie says he is a Democratic Socialist and that as far as I can see is what this country needs at this point in time.

[Robbins]

7. let's see

if bringing up essay he wrote in saitre is in bounds so is her past.

And at least Elizabeth Warren admits she used to vote republican and has seen the light and now helps lead fight against corporations.

[BrotherIvan]

8. You are mistakenly assuming that positions, voting record, or political history actually matter to

some. They DON'T. The only thing that matters is optics, platitudes, and the semblance of even noticing the proles exist.

[Art_from_Ark]

26. Don't forget the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[BrotherIvan]

29. And primaries are for "vetting candidates for their fundraising abilities"

I saw it on DU.

[Exilednight]

34. I had that conversation with someone yesterday and couldn't

Believe that they actually believed we shouldn't bother having elections and just swear in the person with the most money.

[Autumn]

35. Yeah but that was a joke. Please tell me no one here said

that and actually meant it. Send me a link please.

[BrotherIvan]

37. We were informed in the debate thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026758861

[Autumn]

38. Some people just twist themselves into pretzels

that's life.

[LuvNewcastle]

27. +1

[Enthusiast]

9. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[Orsino]

11. Heh.

I prefer to think that he serves as a reminder to everyone as to what we're supposed to stand for, and especially that he will help to reform the Democratic Party.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

12. The people who made up the DLC are still there. They just rebranded.

[SoapBox]

16. In our home...

We really couldn't give a crap whether they are D, R, I...animal or vegetable or mineral!

We look at the candidate. It's easy to skip the R's as they are now crazy, so we look to the D's.

Then we look at the DINO's versus who will actually work for us.

Right now...Bernie is THE one that is talking all the issues that concern us AND we feel he wouldn't sell us out once in office.

Skip the titles and focus on the person...sheesh.

[L0oniX]

19. After Obama that's the big question ...who do you trust to not sell us out again.

[bvar22]

23. Retire "Hope & Change" as a campaign slogan.

I believe that one is DONE.

[BrotherIvan]

24. Trouble is, people still want change

They are hungry for it, starving for it. I don't know what else to call it, but I see your point.


I sort of like "Bernie for America, because I still give a damn." Or something like that.

h/t someone on DU

[bvar22]

40. Hope & Change !

...because THIS time, we really mean it.

[BrotherIvan]

41. Hope & Change *Suckers!*

But let's see if I'm right. The argument by centrists is that everyone is completely happy with Obama's policies and that they are doing great at an impressively low unemployment rate and a booming stock market. We all know that Clinton will be about the same, more or less in terms of policy. So if voters really do feel like the country is heading in the right direction and that we just need to keep on this course, then she her numbers won't shift at all until she walks into the White House. Funny thing is, someone must have done some internal focus groups because all three candidates are running on economic populism. So maybe, just maybe, people really are as dissatisfied as I think they are. We'll see. I have no confidence that the party won't pull every trick in the book to make sure she is the nominee because she brings a pot full of gold with her. I'm sure we'll see states disqualified, debates tightly scripted, and any number of actions we can't discern.

[bvar22]

43. That damned Elizabeth Warren started all that "populism" shit.

If she had just kept her mouth shut, Hillary would still be inevitable,
and wouldn't be scrambling frantically trying to sound like a Populist,
a role she does not play well.

[BrotherIvan]

44. Exactly- and to them it most definitely is "populism shit"

So tiresome. Why can't I just go to fundraising dinners? Why do I have to pretend I'm "listening." Damn you! It all could have been so easy if it wasn't for you meddling fringe left Snowdenbots!

I am very interested to see where Elizabeth Warren lands in this whole thing. She could be an extremely valuable ally.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. I look at being a "Real Democrat" the same way I look at being a "Real Man",

"Real Woman", "Real American", "Real Socialist", "Real Christian", etc. And, the same applies to the "Good.." variations.

Labels are cheap and meaningless.

[treestar]

25. Wow that's really unfair

and talk about unreasonable. Good grief! There's no better way to support a candidate than that?

[madokie]

28. Bernie is my Kind of Democrat

The kind that gives a fuck about the 99% of us.
Hell he IS one of us. How cool is that

[Art_from_Ark]

30. But he's got bad hair!

And he can't rake in the $$$ from corporate donors!
And he wrote something weird back in 1972!!!!!
And Vermonters are so WHITE!!!!!!!!

[BrotherIvan]

42. I think you just made my bumper sticker

Bernie 2016: He gives a fuck. I like it. It would go well in my neighborhood.

[Autumn]

39. Bernie is more of a Democrat than most Democrats that we have now.

[bvar22]

45. ^^^TRUTH^^^

!