FINALLY, a chance to read the text of the TPP!

[arcane1]

http://www.readthetpp.com/

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Kudos, that is rather cute and well done

[brooklynite]

2. Or...just wait until it's published...

....at which point there'll be 60-75 days to review it and contact you elected officials before a vote occurs.

[jeff47]

5. Yes, and then hear your elected official say that they agree with your concerns

but they feel these other parts of the treaty are good. And since they can't amend it, gosh darn it, they'll just have to vote yes.

[daleanime]

6. +1

[Flatpicker]

12. Why not

And since they can't amend it, gosh darn it, they'll just have to vote NO.

Seems to me that if you can't amend, then you have to default to rejecting everything unless it's all good.

Removing the ability to compromise seems to make constant rejection the default stance.

[jeff47]

21. Because then you lose out on the good parts!

So you just have to vote yes.

The fact that their donors want them to vote yes is purely coincidental. Honest.

[brooklynite]

19. So your issue isn't that it's secret; it's that your Representative won't vote right...

...in which case, if you can't trust them and you can't trust the President, what good is knowing about the TPP content now?

[jeff47]

23. Not even close. But you utterly annihilated that strawman, as usual.

The issue is forbidding debate and amendments and the filibuster makes the "waiting period" moot. It's kabuki designed so that people helping you can pretend they regret screwing over the rest of us.

[newfie11]

53. ++++++++++++

That's exactly right!

[Hoyt]

28. That's the way most legislation is. Some is good, some is bad, but like TPA/TPP the whole will

benefit.

[jeff47]

40. Benefit only if you massively misunderstand the treaty.

80% of the GDP covered by the treaty already has free trade agreements with the US.

12% of the remaining GDP is Japan, where the average tariff on US goods is 1.2%. In the last few months, the dollar has swung versus the Yen by 20%, so 1.2% is damn near irrelevant.

That leaves 8% of GDP that would be "opened" by TPP. None of that 8% has massive tariffs. Again, currency fluctuation utterly dwarfs the tariffs.

So people like you saying the TPP is good because of free trade are massively misunderstanding what the treaty would actually do. Largely because the people selling the TPP have been lying about the beneficial effects.

[Hoyt]

41. Apparently, you think tariffs are the main impediment to global trade/investment nowadays.

Hopefully, you'll correct that at some point.

[jeff47]

43. Careful! You're starting to reveal the secrets by bringing up investment.

Gotta keep it a trade deal or people will start to ask "Why is it good to lay off US workers so Romney can have a 100% safe investment in a Malaysian factory staffed by slaves?"

[Hoyt]

44. I have no problem with companies investing money to improve the world. They should do just that.

Government should make sure the companies don't exploit workers. If the TPP requires improvements in that, the environment, etc., I don't have a problem with it. Money sitting in a corporate bank account doesn't help anyone.

I doubt you are hiring anyone here (at good wages) or overseas (at better than prevailing wages) right now?

[jeff47]

46. There's nothing stopping them now.

They could invest the money today. All that's "in the way" is there would be some more risk in investing in a foreign country than investing in the US.

The TPP is designed to eliminate or greatly reduce that risk differential. Brunei decides that maybe they shouldn't allow slavery? You get to demand Brunei pay you for what you guess your profit would be off that slave labor.

And no, I'm not being hyperbolic with slave labor. So you can drop the bullshit about caring what happens in other countries. If you did, you'd want a treaty that requires them to not allow slaves before they could join the trade agreement. 'Cause Malaysians really aren't clamoring for longer copyrights on Disney movies.

[Hoyt]

47. There is nothing in the TPP that is going to give a corporation a penny if a country outlaws slavery

Anyone can sue, but in that case the UN and WTO wouldn't approve it for the tribunals. Even if it made it there somehow, it wouldn't win. You are being ridiculous, at least I hope that's why you post something that absurd.

Actually, Malaysia, etc.,will have to show steady progress toward meeting labor standards to be part of the deal.

[jeff47]

48. Wrong.

Go take a look at the ISDS chapters that leaked. Any new environmental or labor regulation lets the investor "sue". UN and WTO? Not the bodies hearing the pseudo-lawsuit.

Actually, Malaysia, etc.,will have to show steady progress toward meeting labor standards to be part of the deal.

And if you gave a shit about Malaysians, you'd require them to meet those labor standards before they could be part of the deal. Not "progress" like "You only killed 3,000 workers this year. Good job!"

[Hoyt]

49. No it does not, only if the new rules discriminate against foreign corporations by favoring domestic

companies.

[tazkcmo]

54. or

Or get paid to promote it.

[PowerToThePeople]

45. Lie. N/t

[IronLionZion]

29. With tea party controlling both houses of congress

I doubt any of the amendments that would make it through could possibly be any good

[jeff47]

39. Which means TPA removing the filibuster is kinda a big deal. (nt)

[Fred Sanders]

18. Folks refuse to believe the law mandates open debate and discussion on the full text....sad.

[jeff47]

24. Debate and discussion without amendment is meaningless.

There's not much point to having such a debate or discussion when you can't actually alter the bill based on that debate and discussion.

[ChristianGrey]

27. Precisely

[Hoyt]

30. First, if the final draft is "bad," Obama won't submit it to Congress. Second the TPA languages sets

objectives that must be met, or the Fast Track can be revoked. Third, Congress can always say, "President Obama, we have no choice but to turn this down unless you can get the following provisions changed."

Plenty of opportunities to change or stop the agreement if Congress is convinced the TPA/TPP is bad for us. Now, why don't you set out to find evidence -- now or when a final document is released -- that is really bad for us and show your Congress people why it's bad.

[jeff47]

42. :rofl:

First, if the final draft is "bad," Obama won't submit it to Congress.

Second the TPA languages sets objectives that must be met, or the Fast Track can be revoked.

And if those objectives were at all measurable, you could have a point. But instead it's someone like you deciding if the objectives were met. "Is it a trade deal? Then it's good enough!"

Third, Congress can always say, "President Obama, we have no choice but to turn this down unless you can get the following provisions changed."

Yeah, the Republicans and centrist Democrats will totally vote "No".

Now, why don't you set out to find evidence -- now or when a final document is released -- that is really bad for us and show your Congress people why it's bad.

Because I'm not Disney or a drug company. Congress people don't give a shit about what I think. As Clinton's fans love to argue, "What are you going to do, vote for the Republican?"

[Hoyt]

50. There is a reason they don't always take action you want.

[cali]

31. if tpa passes the tpp

passes. Period. That's why the real battle is the one over tpa. This ain't rocket science. Everyone with even the smallest bit of knowledge knows this. If you have the votes for tpa you have the votes for the tpp. So reading it after passage is dog shit and the worst kind of cynical lying shit, along those lines, comes from those that are aware of this.

[arcane1]

35. And when those votes are overwhelmingly republican, it's hard to buy "trust me" n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

37. I thought your talking point was that all other trade deals in modern history

were negotiated in secret.

Or has that one become too embarrassing?

[FlatBaroque]

3. LOL

very smart.

[madfloridian]

4. lol

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. clever site.........LOL

it didn't say anything about the 4 year censorship that MP in Australia have on discussing it or that only 5 of the 39 chapters are about trade and the others are about corporate control of the planet.

[Wilms]

8. Awesome!

[Jefferson23]

9. LOL

I was not expecting that..thought it would be something in teeny tiny print.

[WillyT]

10. LOL !!!

[NCTraveler]

11. That is great!!!! K&R nt.

[annabanana]

13. Kicked, Rec'd, faced & tweeted!

very well done

[peecoolyour]

14. Succinct, yet funny and hard-hitting.

[imthevicar]

15. You're a B@#%$rd

But a funny one who had me snickering!

[arcane1]

26. It fooled me on Facebook this morning, I couldn't NOT share it here

[Cryptoad]

16. How Funny,,,,,

TTP does not even exist yet,,, it can not even be negotiated until the fast track is in place,,, cause the major country will not even start the process until that happen....... Seems the Far left has as many seers as the Far Right....! geeez

[cali]

32. there have been 24 rounds of negotiations. there is little left to negotiate.

Auto parts and rice with Japan, some dairy and livestock issues with Canada and a few other issues. You have no clue. Zip. Zero. Zilch

[Cryptoad]

33. May not be me without a clue

Yes the process of negotiating has be negotiated ,,, but the main players[countries] of the treaty have state they will not enter into negotiation of the substance of the treaty until the "Fast Track" is approved...... but follow that yellow brick road,,,, view the Treaty! lmao

[Art_from_Ark]

38. Actually, that stuff about rice and Japan was agreed upon last year

The trouble is, much of the ruling party's strength comes from rural areas that will be hit hard by the TPP, so the government has to maintain the charade that it's negotiating a better deal.

[Roland99]

17. Ha! nice!

[CharlotteVale]

20. K&R

[Fla Dem]

22. Put a smile on my face. Thanks. nt

[Enthusiast]

25. I know it's a joke but K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

[Duppers]

34. The TAKE ACTION link

was great. Look at all the organizations who oppose the TPP and why they do.

[arcane1]

36. THANKS! I didn't see that before! Link here:

https://www.stopfasttrack.com/?email=1#takeaction

[orpupilofnature57]

51. Thanks, I'm there .

[99Forever]

52. That'll get em buzzin' on Facebook.