General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf I believed that democracy were in its death throes,
the last thing I would be doing is posting on a political forum, frankly. I am here specifically because I believe that is not true. Democracy will die when we stop trying to keep it alive and healthy.
Please strive with me to encourage people to participate in democracy, not to give up on it.
Thank you!
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,632 posts)Never give up, never give in........NEVER QUIT.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Defeatism is of no value to anyone and helps nobody. It is not a progressive value in any way.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)That's exactly what I'm calling for.
cali
(114,904 posts)You're responding to. Sure you did.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,794 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Let's refuse to do that, shall we?
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)And if I thought we lived in a police state, I'd be afraid to say anything too. You can jailed or killed for saying the wrong thing.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)makes for poor argument, by is sufficient for some, I suppose.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)It's more than a little sad.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)And so it goes...
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)...was true, the only viable option would to become a doomsday prepper. Live in a compound armed to the teeth with like minded cultists.
Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Thanks for the howlers. Comic relief is always welcome.
If it was the End I would at least say 'bye bye' to DU...my family is close. Not a long OP, since I bet many would be doing the same thing.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Tomorrow can be the best day of my life, I am thankful for so many who has passed my life.
Progress is on it's way.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Sorry, I work in an engineering field.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)The sky is not falling.
Panic is not only premature but useless.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)We must keep working for progress. Giving up is not an option.
Response to okasha (Reply #18)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Now that's a laugh. Lloyd should likely be behind bars along with his other 'savvy businessmen' buddies who did their damndest to crash the entire country's economy while hoovering up as much public money as possible to funnel into private hands.
Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #48)
Name removed Message auto-removed
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)I'm also a big fan of toxic waste. Some things just wind up with bad reps. It's tragic, really. And unfair.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Response to MineralMan (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Paladin
(28,264 posts)Beau Biden's services this morning made me feel better about this country than I have in years. I'm in no mood for defeatist whining here at DU.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I'm proud to have him as my President.
Paladin
(28,264 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Hekate
(90,714 posts)...with every post you make. Thanks.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)are sure sign that it is about to reach boiling point. I would say there are too many bubbles in this pot called the American experiment. If one doesn't keep an eye on it, it will sooner or later boil over.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)But if you tell people everything is great when they see clearly it is not, then they will not believe you and come to trust less and less.
You don't win by not facing problems...All you do is normalize them.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Elections are coming. Make them count.
cali
(114,904 posts)V
High consumer society (yes, elections are high consumer events; see Obama 2008; if you weren't in Mile High Stadium you should've been there) is not incompatible with Democracy.
It's not the damn end of the world as we know it.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)We need approval voting, better apportionment (at least twice as many House members) and an end to gerrymandering.
But at least two of those things are going to happen (approval voting may be a bit more difficult but it's a one line piece of legislation in election code).
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The wealthy and powerful wouldn't be wealthy and powerful if they didn't know how to exert undue influence on the controls of our society.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)when "it was like that before". Bush was "elected" twice then proceeded to give away the treasury to the contractors & more, including the "Halliburton loophole" look at the foreign involvements way before -- Reagan. War is Racket -- what do you think Smedley Butler was talking about. "The Business plot"? Who has their ear during decision making. Sure as hell not We the People. Peddling horseshit from my own party's supporters is the BIGGEST reason why I haven't given up but have no hope. Bernie Sanders has given me what little hope I have left out and the reason I say little is I don't like his chances in the primary because of the "electable" voters but expect him to soar in a general. Hillary Clinton just more of the same selling to the highest bidder, the contractors are already behind her.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)But this data goes back decades. The MIC has always been and always will be entrenched for the foreseeable future. It sucks. Big Pharma, likewise. Elizabeth Warren, of all people, was against the medical device tax. Because her constituents were against it.
But with Citizens United and Oligarchy United things have obviously changed. With the OP I can sympathize with that. There has been a change. But the top contenders for the Presidency (Sanders and Clinton) are for overturning those obviously corporatist agendas. So we shouldn't fret. Hell, Clinton came out in favor of automatic voter registration (which Sanders supports). It's not that big of a deal.
Things are changing so fast these days, but our democracy isn't it.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)the buying and selling of our Democracy has long took place but things were optimistic from the early industrial revolution with the strong unions & Keynesian economics but the CIA killed a lot of hope not just here but around the world. Not to mention "the British are coming"
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Things have changed dramatically in the last decade. But that is not a reason to set ourselves up for defeat. Sanders has a decent chance to turn things around (I believe he will do really well at the debates which is where I think the polls will shift, they've already shown incredible promise in Wisconsin). And if Clinton supports what Sanders supports (he introduced the overturn of Citizens United, long before Clinton came out for it) it is a good sign.
We're not done by a long shot, we're not even declining.
If a Republican takes the White House then I might change my tune.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Midterms or especially congressional races. Reason for Congress is I think Republicans have most of the districts in Michigan but most of the people live in Detroit a whole bunch of districts covering rural land but few for the cities. Unequal not to mention the gerrmandering -- things have improved considerable in Arizona with Independent Redistrictering which Jan Brewer hilariously fired after the chairman only for the judge to say she can't do that but even though a "none" religion, openly bisexual, former Green who worked on Ralph Nader's campaign won back-to-back elections the right poured heavy money into the races because it is a "swing district" with the mayor of Paradise Valley (a very wealthy city) running the ugliest campaign I ever seen where I had a living room seat to but she recently voted against Wall-Street reform and in favor of "Citigroup protection" so she is obviously worried about future elections because the heavy money pours in -- sold her soul for the mighty green back.
This is why I trust Bernie Sanders so much with his experience and record I find it very unlikely he'll do much of whoring but Clinton or anybody can win the general because the Republican party platform is radical, all they have left is rural older white American support left to count on (which is why the midterms will continue to be losers -- especially with Democrats that "distance themselves" but foreign policy issues and most Americans are blind but buy the usual crap who are enemies and friends are and why that we are out there trying to do good when it is obvious the financial interests and a way for the MIC to sell bombs.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It's a class thing every bit as much as just sheer graft, probably even more so actually, politicians mingle and associate with the wealthy and powerful class and not with normal everyday people. The politicians take their cues from those they associate with not those they represent.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)The democracy is not at risk yet. There is room for improvement, yes, but it's not all doom and gloom, not by a long shot.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)You had to go back over a half century for your most recent counterexample.
treestar
(82,383 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)how much money is spent and voters go sheeplike for whoever spent the most money.
It insults the intelligence of the voters.
Most people go by their beliefs. Republicans vote Republican and don't pay attention to how much money the Democrats spent. I would never vote Republican due to some slick ad campaign they spent a lot of money on.
So it is not nearly so simple as "the ones who spend the most win."
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Yet much of the Team Hillary argument seems to rest on her unmatched fundraising-fu.
treestar
(82,383 posts)that is for sure. I think we need to get the campaign season down to a shorter time period. We're going on about an event 17 months from now.
What you just posted is bullshit in a blender. It's like you made up your own OP and responded to it.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)But all my posts are original...comes from my own mind.
I guess it hit nerve judging by your hyper response.
I was right. You read something, make up your own version, then respond to it. All your posts might be original, and come from your own mind, but it seems as though, everybody else's does too. I am getting hyper right now anticipating your response to your version of my response.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)In a passive aggressive way...that is silly and childish IMO but go ahead and come back at me with some more of it, it don't bother me at all, and it may satisfy some urge you have.
Marr
(20,317 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts).....it would.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Don't mean all of them, just the usual ones. Shining shit and calling it gold isn't going to improve or save or basically lying to themselves and others.
sarge43
(28,941 posts)my great great grandfather didn't give up when he fought to make other men free
my great grandmother didn't give up when she struggle for the right to vote
my grandfather didn't give up to save the wilderness of Michigan
my father didn't give up to have the right to unionize
We owe it to so many people not give up.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Behind the oligarchy study (which is the latest).
Politics is a show, and those with lots of money control it
The first step in solving this actually is realizing there is a real issue. It will not be easy. But the delusion that there aren't any issues is quite frankly delusional.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I'm saying it on Democratc Underground.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We both are.
The studies and books are out there. I shan't bother to link to any of them since I am sure you can find them.
The first step in solving any problem is realizing one exists. Now I return you to propaganda where all is fine.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)This system has been severely strained and perverted by a tiny collection of billionaires. Saying democracy in the USA is 'alive and healthy' is just pollyana, and frankly, makes me doubt the speaker's judgement-- if not honesty.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I was there.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)providing the right bait so many in the masses swallow it hook, line and sinker. I think that has always been the case, but what disturbs me today is the incredible wealth and propaganda machines to influence/control elections. And IMO psychops in the process. And actions such as SCOTUS and CItizen's United.
The preservation of a democracy is a battle that must be continuously fought.
I'm not speaking of the OP here at all, but to me many in the population have blinders on when they vote placed on them by the oligarchy.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)My kids are smarter than me at least partly because their mother is smarter than me but they aren't doing as well as I was at their age and I don't for one moment think it's their fault.
For some of us watching politics is an exercise in horrified fascination. Some people gawk at blood and gore in the car wreck, some others at blood and gore in politics.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Please keep hope, and this thread, alive.
Thanks for all you replies!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts).. but this liberal isn't letting it go without a fight.
Bernie for President 2016
Get off your asses and VOTE if you want to make a difference.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... I have heard about the death throes of democracy, on a predictably regular basis, for over six decades now.
Those who make such pronouncements are to be given as much credence as those who preach that the "end times are nigh", and the world as we know it will end within days - or weeks - or months, depending on whose ravings one chooses to believe.
The concept of democracy is not a document that can be destroyed, nor an ideal that can be muddled, nor a belief that can be dissuaded.
Democracy is alive and well - and those who ask others to embrace their own despair are to be pitied, but ultimately dismissed.
Democracy is about ALL of us - and when it is discussed in terms of "what about ME and what I think", the discussion becomes not only self-serving, but totally irrelevant.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Spot ON!!!!
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)I agree with you that people who embrace despair are to be pitied and ultimately dismissed. It reminds me a bit of some of the tea party ranting that when there was democratic party control of congress and the presidency democracy was dead. It's ahistorical as well, as you point out.
End times are nigh crap has existed since, well, pretty much the beginning of times, lol. People who hate it so much that they feel they need to type it all over here, sometimes I feel they need to get outside and go see some nature or find some people they like or something. Or have people visit them if they can't go outside. Or organize protests. I'm getting the feeling also that what they're really saying is 'I'm smarter than everyone else and if my candidate doesn't win they screw you I quit.' I never much felt like those are the kind of people I'd want in a lifelong battle in the first place.
Granted we have a lot to do to improve things on every level. It's not even a matter of thinking we'll improve everything perfectly. It's a matter for me of knowing that the struggle never ends. 'Toward a more perfect union.' Thanks again for your presence here. And once again, my deepest sympathies on the loss of your loved one.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)For centuries at a time lt seemed to be extinct, butt it always came back.
The notion that it is dying is unrealistic from a historical perspective.
Even if our system here in the US is suffering, there are many with healthy democracies.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)There's a lot of gloom and doom here that I don't see anywhere else. There's also a lot of conspiratorial nonsense that contributes to the gloominess here.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Vast Right Wing Conspiracy...
I've heard those words before somewhere.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)because whatever it is the obvious bank & oil & gas industries as well as defense contractors clearly, very clearly influence foreign policy which contributes to my depression but as the Clinton foundation has taken donations the Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Morocco, and defense contractors not to mention they've seen a raise in weapons sales from the contractors (though probably unrelated but they sure as hell not donating for charity BS loophole but I imagine you feel it is nonsense that anything is bad with those associations -- whatever don't matter because a religious minority in Yemen has a $1.5 million dollar bombs dropped on them I'm just not going to be blind & pretend or change the story on others reality.
moondust
(19,993 posts)All is indeed for the best here in the best of all possible worlds.
cali
(114,904 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)exhorting them, is only needed when it is a production, something manufactured, like a brand. Or a plantation.
"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."
Steve Biko
And that is why it is hard to see.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)canoeist52
(2,282 posts)"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility;
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger. . . ."
This is what I quote to my friends and family on voting days.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)If our opponent raises more money, we will lose.
If we raise more money than our opponent, we will still lose.
Our only chance for success is to "Think Outside the Bucks," to make this election about votes, not dollars. That's because the primary sources of the largest campaign donations are also the greatest threat to our democracy.
"That is 20 percent of what the Koch brothers themselves are prepared to spend. Can you take that on? I don't know the answer. Maybe the game is over. Maybe they have bought the United States government. Maybe there is no turning back. Maybe we've gone over the edge. I don't know. I surely hope not. But we have to look at that reality."
David and Charles Koch the libertarian billionaires commonly referred to as the Koch brothers reportedly have earmarked nearly $900 million of their personal fortune for the 2016 campaign, on behalf of one or more Republican candidates.
The average contribution to Sanders' last Senate campaign was $45, he claimed.
U.S. News and World Report: Bernie Sanders: The Billionaires May Just Win
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)It is an illusion to think that the House will go to the
Dems after all the redistricting, which has been
achieved. And, unless you live in a beautifully blue
state, you may think twice about getting the
Senate to become not only 60% Dems, but also
progressively so. I realize pretty well that my
socalled Dem Senator will have a very hard time.
As a matter of fact I call him our blue dog.
Alright then, do you think that one person in
the WH will be able to achieve a lot under those
conditions?
Oh, I will try to work for Bernie as I have never
worked before, but I leave misplaced optimism
to Rove's prediction of Romney's win.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)like I said in another thread, why would I even waste my time with a place like Democratic Underground if I thought it was all for nothing. My grandkids would be very disappointed in me. Thanks for the great OP. And by the way, a big K&R. The voices of reason and hope are alive and well.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)betsuni
(25,537 posts)More people will catch on. There may even be a sort of '60s-type thing happening. I'm happy to see strikes and protests. Slowly unions will come back, small manufacturing and food production. It's a damn big country. A slow, stubborn big damn country.
xocet
(3,871 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Increasingly, it is NOT a political forum as much as it is a "cultural forum", especially here in GD.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)I would probably agree with you that we have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)frankly, what I think we're doing here, is documenting the last gasps of democracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6790502
SixString
(1,057 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)to make things more democratic. It's not a straight line. Sometimes it gets dark or difficult. We need one another. I interact with great people here who are also engaged in that struggle. Like other animals, people want to communicate with each other.
The 'good old days' were not good for a lot of people. I encourage people to engage here and offline. We'll never have a perfect democracy. We're all a part of struggling to make a better one.
6chars
(3,967 posts)It's easy to fall into absolutist thinking that the trend will continue in linear fashion. And then it never does. (oops, I just fell into absolutist thinking - it almost never does.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)When we lose hope, we lose everything that makes that struggle worthwhile. When people tell us that we should give up hope, we need to tell them, "No, thanks."
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)President and consolidation of the one-party state might mean for those who post here. Not saying "Henny Penny, sky is falling" but not saying "whistle past the graveyard" either.
Unless you have good reason to believe, against all the profesionnal prognosticators, that the House will revert to the Dems. Even the Senate in 2016 will be a long-shot for Dems to regain control.
Have you made any contingency plans for the possible one-party state in January, 2017? If not, why not? Do you not think it at least possible that a Republican Congress might pass an Enabling Act and a Republican President sign it?
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,026 posts)MFrohike
(1,980 posts)I watched a senate seat get bought in my state last year for $80 million. I saw nearly $2 billion get spent on the last presidential race. Suffice it to say, I'm a lot less optimistic about the status of American democracy with those things in mind. Not that I think we're near the end, but I find your prescription to be overly simplistic. If you want people to participate, you actually have to acknowledge the problems at hand and then say, "and here's how we fix it!" Anything else is just dishonest.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)It is just nails in the coffin at this point. 60s where the last chance. Jfk, mlk, rfk was the death. The red scare for the decade prior eradicated the far left.
cali
(114,904 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 7, 2015, 07:19 AM - Edit history (1)
And that my op, simple as it was, went over your head is no surprise.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)It's DU. I post what I choose to post here.
cali
(114,904 posts)it was against the rules.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Not in any way. It is a thread in response to another thread. That has never been against any rules. In any case, this is DU3, not the "old DU." Copycat threads tend to be sarcastic in nature. You'll find no sarcasm in this thread. Just a focus on what I think is important.
This thread will stand. I will post new threads on whatever topics seem important to me, even if they are posted to counter the views in some other thread. DU is full of such threads.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)What a silly thing to pretend.
Even before the modern capitalist insanity we have now, we had a country in which part were enslaved, part were slaughtered, and part were worth nothing as defined by our constitution. There has never been democracy in the US--only varying levels of oppression, some more successful than others.
I don't fight to rescue democracy, I fight to create it. Participation in a democracy requires more than just participation. We have to be singularly committed as one people to completely overhaul this incredibly backwards society that we live in today. It touches every aspect of our lives.
Democracy isn't about participation: it's about understanding. I don't think you do.
bluesbassman
(19,374 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)but I see where this all heading but you're doing a wonderful job encouraging people (sarcasm)
MattSh
(3,714 posts)you hopefully wouldn't be under the delusion that you are making any kind of difference here.
The worst possible way to promote democracy is online activism.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)The worst possible way to promote democracy is online activism
I agree to the point of it not being effective in an echo chamber such as DU.
On the flip-side, the internet did help fuel the Arab Spring, there are websites that offer legitimate debate and thoughtful discussions, while schools like Yale post complete course lectures to give people the tools to make enlightened decisions.
In many ways, the internet is one of the best tools to spread democracy, but as the old saying goes; you can lead the horse to water, but you can'take them drink.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Its the only way a party with an insane and yet shrinking base, has a shot of winning.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)organization trying to suppress the Democratic vote, you need to check yourself.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Perhaps you could show me where I claimed a DU member was part of a shadowy group trying to suppress turnout.
What I do see is plenty of Democrats who are more than happy to run around with their hair on fire, whining about TPTB, and other shadowy groups, claiming that we the people now have no say in what happens with our government.
Leading to the conclusion ... why even vote.
Its silly. And those on DU who do it are not part of some shadowy group ... they are simply dupes playing a small part in helping the party of insane whack jobs survive longer than it should.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)So, Joe, WHO'S goal is it?
And WHY?
Don't start backpedalling now. Tell us more about these "operatives".
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The media pushes two lines ...
The first is designed to ANGER the right wing, to energize them to vote.
The second is designed to DISCOURAGE the left wing, and get them to give up.
Watch almost any political show ... a republican pundit will attack the democrats. The democratic pundit will basically agree, and then say almost nothing of value.
It takes ENERGY to vote.
The GOP, with media help, works to suppress the vote via laws, and disinformation designed to anger the right, and discourage the left.
And too frequently, DU ends up being little more than an echo chamber for the latter.
I suspect that some of this on DU is actual trolling.
But I've also found that some on the left are miserable no matter what the situation happens to actually be. As such, they can be very susceptible to this.
On edit: Some examples ....
DU has been enraged and discouraged because Obama was going to ...
Never end DADT
Never support ending DOMA
Definitely going to GUT Social Security
Definitely make the Bush tax cuts for the top 1% permanent.
Definitely going to pass Keystone
Definitely going to kill Net Neutrality
Definitely stay in Iraq
Definitely invade Syria
Definitely invade Libya
Definitely invade Egypt
Each of these created a great deal of anger towards Obama and democrats ... becoming DU's common wisdom.
And every one was wrong.
The left, screaming bloody murder, Dems SUCK. Obama SUCKS. Dems Suck.
So what if it was all wrong. As long as Dems feel discouraged by this nonsense. The goal is achieved.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Seems to me, the people who most fear FUD, doubt their own convictions.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)So much so it's unlikely we can heal the system from within, simply doing the same old shit. GOTV is worthless if the politicians we elect won't take the bold radical steps to eradicate the influence of money in politics. Until that happens it's not really democracy (as I understand it), it's a mollifying ritual to appease the rabble.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)voter registration? That would be an excellent step. So would making election day in November a national holiday. In the meantime, any of us can participate in voter registration efforts and GOTV efforts. That is activism that can produce change.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)it has zero effect on what really ails the system. Seems to me her interest in this is more for her than us.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 7, 2015, 08:43 PM - Edit history (1)
everything."
~Joseph Stalin
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)rock
(13,218 posts)Democracy is not in it's death throes; however our government which runs it is exceedingly corrupt. Nevertheless the people can still unite and through the democratic process put in leaders that will do something about it. I believe either Hillary or Bernie can do that, and I'm pretty sure one of them will win the primary and go on to win the general election. No, thank you!
G_j
(40,367 posts)of endless wars, if you get my point.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)democracy but live in a plutocratic-oligarchy?
The people are not being represented by our government. We have presidential elections stolen and the Democratic Party leaders don't give a crap. We've seen whole-sale disenfranchisement of voters and gerrymandering. Those are not democratic.
Our ship is sinking and yes you can say we are still on the ship, but we must stop the sinking. Sen Sanders advocates major changes that would help the ship survive, but others are happy with the status quo that sees us continue to sink.
Oil companies want to drill in the Arctic. Pres Obama, a democrat, believes the assurances of the oil companies that they won't f-up the environment. Didn't really learn from the BP Gulf disaster.
We need to change directions.
It's important to GOTV, but it won't fix anything if they vote for the Oligarch's choice.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)in particular the process of finding the best canididates.
Doom and gloom in just one more dimension of voter suppression. And while we know elections have been stolen, those who despair that they all are add fuel to the suppression bus.
Republican in total panic to the point of needing to suppress voters and gerrymander shows us the democracy works and that scares the crap out of them. Obama bring millions of new voters out is the best example yet of how well it can work.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)The Republicons are not our main enemy but only a tool of the plutocratic oligarchy which is our real enemy. But Republicons are not the only tool. It only makes sense that if you have unlimited funds that you would buy influence in both parties. Simply voting Democratic is not enough. We must break the hold the conservatives have on our party.
What do you think of the Princton study?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)is awareness.
Voting will not solve oligarchies. It is part of the solution, but truly a small part of it.
Number23
(24,544 posts)"If I believed that democracy were in its death throes, the last thing I would be doing is posting on a political forum
WAAAAYYYY too much logic and common sense for this place.