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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFranken finds sandwich shop's noncompete rule ridiculous
Evidently Jimmy Johns doesn't want its employees using their freaky fast sandwich-making skills at other sandwich shops. The company, along with some other retailers, requires low-wage workers to sign agreements which specify that they will not work for competitors if they leave their jobs.
In an interview with the Star Tribune, Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) called those agreements "ridiculous."
Franken said it is disturbing that low-wage workers would be asked to sign a non-compete agreement. But to make matters worse, he said workers often aren't told that their jobs include the restriction as a condition of their employment.
To address the issue, Franken and Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) have introduced the Mobility and Opportunity for Vulnerable Employees - or MOVE - Act. The bill would ban non-compete agreements for employees making less than $15 an hour or $31,200 annually. The MOVE act would also require employers to tell prospective employees at any level of pay if they might be asked to sign a non-compete agreement.
Non-compete agreements for low-wage workers discourage those employees from seeking higher-paying jobs within the same industry, according to a press release from Frankens office. The MOVE act would enable employees stuck in low-paying positions to seek higher-paying jobs without fear of their employer taking legal action against them. As for why employers would want to hold low-wage workers to non-compete agreements, Franken said, I guess its because they can.
http://www.startribune.com/franken-finds-sandwich-shop-s-non-compete-rule-ridiculous/306176061/
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Fighting for working people.
malthaussen
(17,204 posts)Pretty clear how these people feel about slavery.
-- Mal
suffragette
(12,232 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Good for Al...
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)What would be the punishment?
question everything
(47,486 posts)but I think that the threat alone is enough.
mrmpa
(4,033 posts)in the agreement is probably a section that says you promise to use arbitration for any disputes
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)D-bag franchise owner sees former employer working at competitor. D-bag franchise owner calls his attorney and has him file a lawsuit. Minimum wage employee can't afford an attorney to defend himself so probably doesn't even try to show up and defend himself. D-bag franchise owner gets default judgment.
Minimum wage employee gets sent to collections and/or gets his minimum wage garnished. Or just generally fucks his credit and life up just a little bit more and makes it harder to get out of minimum wage hell.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)That is it in a nutshell.
Warpy
(111,274 posts)Employees are minimum wage or just above minimum wage. It's not like they're going to get anything and these bastards are in it for the money.
It's just intimidation to get people to put up with a shitty job longer than they should by making them think they can't go out and get another one elsewhere.
6chars
(3,967 posts)let him put his own time and money into getting this enforced. ha.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)A new chain could actively seek out sandwich making employees as part of their recruitment campaign, "the best of the best" so to speak. This dissuades that sort of campaign.
malthaussen
(17,204 posts)Capitalists are driven by money, yes, but that is not the only thing that drives them. Shitting on other people just because you can is also a great joy. And anyway, couldn't the plaintiff get his costs covered by the judgement?
-- Mal
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I am a simulator technician- one of the most exclusive jobs in the world. There are, maybe, 5000 of us (that is a liberal guess). If I quit, I will likely work for another simulation company. I have never had to sign a no compete clause. Jesus, they make sandwiches at Jimmy John's- it isn't rocket science.
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)An employee who signs a non-compete agreement in order to get a job will be intimidated from applying for a higher paying job with a competitor because that employer might check with their current employer for reference if they list the job as experience.
As such the employee is more likely to remain in their current low paying dead-end job, which reduces that employer's turnover cost.
Oneironaut
(5,504 posts)The only purpose of them is to prevent employees from taking a company's trade secrets and either giving it to a competitor, or starting their own company to compete with their old employer directly using that company's trade secrets. In the court's eyes, a non-compete agreement is bullshit until it is proven that an employee actually did either of those two things. Making a sandwich doesn't fit into either of those categories - anyone can make a sandwich. Claiming that a way a sandwich is made might be taken by a minimum wage employee and given to a competitor is laughable, and would be in court too.
Just because a company has you sign something doesn't mean it's binding. It has to be determined as reasonable. Non-competes aren't supposed to be used as threats against quitting, which is obviously what this does. Courts are very employee-friendly when it comes to non-compete agreements - they're virtually impossible to enforce minus a few specific circumstances.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's draconian. And, hey, moms have been making sandwiches super-fast for years. Ask us how it is done.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)clause was dusted off and attached to the pink slip (not kidding - they had forced all 50 supervisor to sign one 2 years prior. ).
The huge corporation did NOT need to enforce the clause. Word was out that those clauses were in all the 50+ plus people who got laid off. So, when they went to apply for similar positions, they were told they couldn't be hired for a year because of that clause, No enforcement necessary, No law suits needed. Word got out is all that was required. There are so many people they can hire, why risk hiring someone that might involve a suit?
So after a year, the experience is of little value and job prospects are practically nil.
Welcome to capitalism, where the uber rich rig the system to ensure you die very poor.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)The absolute lunacy that printed out sandwich making directions (with specific weights of ingredients which must be rigidly adhered to ) implies some kind of learned skill which can by scouted by a competitor (who has their own carefully printed out directions and weights which also must be followed to the letter) could only come from some MBA nitwit.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The "financial engineers" (and is there a more chilling phrase than that one?), HR assklowns and marketing "brain wizards" serve no useful function in a sane society. They are wastes of perfectly good oxygen.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The entire project is to drain humanity out of everything so that profits can be pursued unimpeded. It is the mark of a very sick society.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I happened to work my ass off for to earn a MBA and earned it. Six weeks ago I finished my doctorate in international business. That was utter hell. So don't knock what you and others can't or won't do.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)But there are as many rats as not in the B-schools, just as there in the law schools. I know as I have an Ivy League J.D.
The financial engineers are incredibly destructive and utterly unnecessary, though.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)People who earn a MBA work their asses off to do so in a field they are interested it. By the way, I not only have a MBA I also have a doctorate.
7962
(11,841 posts)All of the people in my position work from home, so we print our own docs and such. the company sent out a document for all of us to sign after a "re-structuring" (ha!). It was a 2 page doc and we had to sign and return it. It had job requirements, security stuff, etc. as well as the non-compete clause, which was VERY vague. I scanned the document and reprinted it with the small non-compete paragraph deleted. Signed it, took it to my boss who also signed it and it was sent to HQ. Never heard another word about it.
Lucky it worked.
question everything
(47,486 posts)unfortunately, how many min wage sandwich making employees would even know about this and to delete?
It reminds me that 20 and 30 years ago, when we signed for a mortgage, there was a clause to add a checking account at the same bank so that payments would be automatically removed.
F**k no! We just crossed them and initialed. No one ever gave us grief.
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)Non-compete clause states I can't work for a competitor until 18 months after leaving. Lol whatever motherfuckers. I still work for the one company (in 4+ years now) and concurrently worked (only worked for a few months, they got bought and I got downsized) for a competitor (well, technically not a direct competitor since they served a different clientele and for much higher membership dues).
There are no valuable trade secrets in janitorial. Making me, someone working the front desk, or in the Kids Klub sign a non-compete is just petty. Trainers? Sales? Upper management? Yeah, kinda make sense there, but the rest of us shlubs? Fuck you, corporate.
7962
(11,841 posts)They just figure we'll all listen and do it. But it'd be hard to argue in court that a person cant do what they're trained to do for a living. I could see a restriction on taking info such as customer lists or stuff like that.
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)The corporate history of California going back to the beginning of the 20th century has been people telling their bosses to go fuck themselves and starting a new company the next day.
Hollywood, the aviation industry and above all else Silicon Valley just wouldn't exist as we know them otherwise. A company like Intel would have been sued out of existence in most states within weeks of starting up when the executives and senior engineers defected from Fairchild Semiconductor and to start a competitor.
Although I do know people who have been paid very, very handsomely not to work voluntarily.
Lucky Luciano
(11,257 posts)A very well paid vacation!
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)He took a year off, then went and worked in healthcare sales in Australia and Thailand.
muntrv
(14,505 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Good on ya, Al!
SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)Or maybe some NFL Team? You play quarter back, and they fire you, and you can't play for any other team? That would be ridicules and the fans would be in an uproar! Sorry LeBron James, you are stuck on this team.. and if you are fired, you will never play on any NBA team again!
7962
(11,841 posts)malthaussen
(17,204 posts)Reserve clause, remember?
-- Mal
yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)and its a stupid law. But I suppose if you had enough people leaving, and working in their chosen fields, that would cost the owner a lot in court fees for suing them. They should do that. This law has to be unconstitutional and should be overturned.
malthaussen
(17,204 posts)... living as I do in the Philadelphia suburbs, quite literally every street corner has a small, non-chain deli or pizza place where good bad food can be bought. I'm assuming this condition does not prevail in much of the country, where chain stores are dominant.
But Chicago? Other major urban areas? I'd think there are plenty of nice places to grab a sandwich without feeding a chain-machine. It puzzles me, because of course the chains are all over the place here, but who would want a pizza from Domino's, e.g., when they could get it from a local business? What's the draw?
-- Mal
yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)with the exception of StarBucks and Peets coffee, but most sandwich shops are mom and pop places, and the food is excellent, especially along Columbus Avenue, (towards the Pyramid Building) which is mostly an Italian section. Chinatown sits next door, literally, and so for a hot meal, that's a great place to go. However, if you want an excellent sandwich, Columbus Ave and Little Italy is best here. In the Haight Ashburry you will also find lots of sandwich shops, and in the Mission of the best vegan sandwiches you will have ever tasted.
aggiesal
(8,917 posts)and it did exactly this.
You signed with a team, even if they cut you from the team, they still owned you and
could place you with a farm team, but you couldn't be a free agent and signed with another
team. Every team owner honored this system, even the NY Yankees.
It was this way until I think 1972. when Kurt Flood happened, which let Free Agency begin.
So for almost 100 years, the reserve clause was in affect.
yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)didn't count then?
aggiesal
(8,917 posts)and if the player refuses the trade, that player couldn't play for any other team.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_clause
It was really ugly.
marble falls
(57,104 posts)an ability to make a living. It would seem to me that any skill that only draws a minimum wage or there about has no proprietary component to it. Its almost an invitation to a class action suit. What is Jimmy John thinking doing this?
I've eaten there . The sandwiches are good ,but they aren't that quick. I hope someone gets a bulldog lawyer and sues.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)were completely unremarkable. Nothing interesting about their options. I won't spend my money there.
marble falls
(57,104 posts)Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)Tasted just like what it was: A "chain restaurant" sub.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)To enforce a non-compete clause, the company must continue to pay the employee for the duration of the non-compete clause.
If they actually have valuable trade secrets that the former employer is worried about, then the former employer will pay. If they don't, the company can't enforce it just to fuck over their ex-employee.
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)In those cases the company paid the full salary of the employee for a year.
Lucky Luciano
(11,257 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Then their workers wouldn't be tempted at all to run across the street to work for sandwich shop B.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I *adore* your sig
Got a chuckle out of me.
malthaussen
(17,204 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Sure!
I introduced it as an OP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026590295
You can use it too if you want.
RecoveringJournalist
(148 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Warpy
(111,274 posts)There is no way to prove intellectual property theft, nor is any employer allowed to dictate an employee's entire field of work once he leaves. The only use for that stupid agreement is employee intimidation and it doesn't work on fired or laid off employees who go to work for other sandwich shops when they need to pay the rent.
It's a waste of paper. I'd love to be a fly on the wall if they ever try to sue a low wage sandwich shop worker for theft of intellectual property by staying in the same field of employment.
mackdaddy
(1,527 posts)WASHINGTON -- If you want to work at a Jimmy John's sandwich shop, you'll need to bring a "killer work ethic" and a "rock star personality," as the chain's job advertisements like to say.
You're also going to need a surprisingly particular wardrobe.
Despite its efforts to cultivate a cheeky and irreverent image, the Jimmy John's franchise apparently enforces a strict grooming and dress code that's distributed to the chain's franchisees around the country. The Huffington Post obtained a copy of the most recent guide, which lays out more than two pages' worth of clothing and hygiene stipulations that sandwich-makers, delivery drivers and other employees must meet.
Workers who don't have the appropriate clothes must find them, and franchisees who fail to uphold the sometimes-confusing guidelines can be downgraded by corporate. According to Jimmy John's franchisees who spoke on the condition of anonymity, it's not uncommon for store owners to dip into their own pockets to help employees meet the corporate dress requirements.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/27/jimmy-johns-dress-code_n_7454504.html
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)I fully support boycotts of any business that mandates a non-compete claus for entry level workers.
I do not give a damn if the boycott drives a "mom and pop" operation out of business. Such
clauses are not needed for entry level positions.
treestar
(82,383 posts)How in the world can making a sandwich be a protected copyrighted ability? They have some secret technique to do it faster? They will never be able to contain that.
Beartracks
(12,816 posts)... unlike any other fast food restaurant, so it must be a trademarked process.
They also build their sandwiches with the bread on the outside. That's practically unheard of in the industry, too.
=====================
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)I can't think of anything much lower than putting this kind of abuse on the lowest paid workers. This is as bad as loan-sharking.
The next time somebody brings up a "government is too big" rant, tell them about this one.
blogslut
(38,002 posts)See, at Subway, they use a knife to cut the channel out of the bun. Looks like Jimmy John's has the worker dig it out with their thumb/forefinger. That would save time.
Blue Owl
(50,423 posts)Beartracks
(12,816 posts)Franken's proposed legislation would ban non-compete clauses for employees making less than $15. If this legislation gets passed, then what happens if, a few years down the road, EVERYone is making $15/hr? I guess that would be a good problem to have to solve, at any rate.
====================
mopinko
(70,127 posts)47of74
(18,470 posts)mvd
(65,174 posts)I really like their sandwiches. Not a great selection of sub/sandwich places where I am - will try to find a replacement though. Jimmy John Liautaud is a known Repuke wing nut. Even kills endangered species overseas. His donations all go to Repukes.
a trophy hunter of endangered species. So there's that. Got Firehouse? Their subs are GREAT! Jersey Mike's aren't bad either.
mvd
(65,174 posts)When I am over that way, I will try it though. Thanks!
at Subway before I will darken the door of Jimmy John's.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)into the Feudal system.
mopinko
(70,127 posts)nobody that makes less than that has any damn trade secrets.
and in a couple years, when we finally get the minimum up to $15, they will have to change this law. if they remember to.
maybe jimmy johns likes their non-compete enough to pay $15.50. it wouldnt hurt them a bit.
groundloop
(11,519 posts)Obviously, as many have pointed out, this particular food chain is simply using a non-compete as a means to enforce indentured labor. Non-compete agreements should be illegal (not just unenforceable in the courts but illegal) for anyone except highly paid executives.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)samsingh
(17,599 posts)ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)I would love to see them try to enforce it on a minimum wage job. Almost every other "non compete" clause in other fields hinges on expiration dates and includes severance packages.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)This is after leaving their jobs, being fired and so forth?
That's completely ridiculous, and worth it for me to shun that brand.
If I can vote Franken for President, I will do it in a heartbeat.
jeanmarc
(1,685 posts)This place, at least the crap locations in Texas, only have like two vegetables: tomato and lettuce. When Subway is kicking your butt to the curb, you have a problem. I can't for the life of me figure out why people eat at this place.
ck4829
(35,077 posts)This is just another way of having that.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Another reason why I would never eat there.
sdfernando
(4,935 posts)in Portland OR. It was a subpar sandwich in my opinion. I wouldn't return on that basis alone but now I definitely won't. I don't know if they have any shops in San Diego, but I haven't seen one.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)but if this what they do to employees then I've no reason to eat there no more. Fuck'em! Back to Publix Sandwhiches!
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)What an abusive tactic! Talented cooks should be able to move up to better paying jobs or use their leverage to raise their pay. I don't like the $15/hr cap on the plan, doesn't protect these workers from abuse.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I believe at some point in time I worked somewhere that I had to sign one of those, but I can't remember where it was exactly. See now that's going to drive me nuts trying to remember where (not that I wasn't 7/8th of the way there already).