Judge: Probable cause for murder charges in Tamir Rice shooting

[bravenak]

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A Cleveland Municipal Court judge has found probable cause that police officer Timothy Loehmann should face murder and other charges in the slaying of 12-year-old Tamir Rice.

Judge Ronald B. Adrine released the opinion Thursday afternoon, days after a group of local clergy and activists filed affidavits asking the court to find probable cause to arrest Loehmann and Frank Garmback on aggravated murder, murder, involuntary manslaughter, reckless homicide, negligent homicide and dereliction of duty charges.

The judge did not find probable cause that either officer should be charged with aggravated murder. Adrine also determined that there was not probable cause to charge Garmback with murder.

Adrine forwarded his opinion to city prosecutors and Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty.

The judge recommended charges of murder, involuntary manslaughter, reckless homicide, negligent homicide and dereliction of duty for Loehmann.



http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/06/judge_finds_probable_cause_for.html

[Kalidurga]

1. Finally someone in the legal system who is sane.

If we had more like him we might even be able to have a system of justice as well.

[bravenak]

3. I'm shocked that there might be some justice finally.

I want to see a perp walk on these two.

[Kalidurga]

6. I do too

This is a good thing for another reason. If someone had gone straight to a judge r.e. Michael Brown then maybe Darren Wilson would have been rightfully charged. So, this is a good lesson for the future. Because unfortunately the police will gun down another innocent person and odds are it will be a person of color and likely male, that isn't so much of a given anymore though. I have read too many stories of handcuffed black women getting shot as well.

[Comrade Grumpy]

28. Don't be shocked yet. The prosecutor still has to get around to charging them.

[bravenak]

35. I know. I got excited too quickly.

[bravenak]

40. No he wasn't. Why are you lying on a dead child? Does it make you feel big and bad to lie on a dead

child? Where is your evidence of him pointing a gun at the cop? I've seen the video enough time to know you are making things up.
My only question is why you do this time after time? Lie on black children to make them seem like criminals? What is your agenda? I saw you lie on the pool party kids and now on Tamir Rice. This is a pattern I see with you in particular. Very ugly.

[jen63]

44. Every thread. Typical.

[bravenak]

45. For real. You'd think he'd give it a rest.

[jen63]

47. Seems compulsive.

[bravenak]

51. I agree.

[jen63]

57. I don't say much,

but I see all the usual suspects.

[bravenak]

59. They are all here. They love to be noticed. They show up every time like clockwork. Trips me out.

[jen63]

61. Me too. I couldn't take the pressure, LOL! n/t

[nc4bo]

87. +1. nt

[uponit7771]

49. This is false on its face, we saw the video!! come on people, lets not just make crap up

[randys1]

52. Good one LOL

wait, you arent kidding.

Ah crap, and I got such a good laugh out of that.

Probably the same kind of laugh racists get when they see Black children gunned down in the street for playing or jaywalking.

[Number23]

86. Usually stuff like that doesn't get hidden. I'm really surprised it did here. DU turning point?

If so, it's about damn time.

[Spazito]

92. The poster is now flagged for review and has 5 hides...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=309989

I am hoping the review results in a decision that is positive for DU!

[Number23]

94. 'Twould be a glorious thing! I am sick of the folks here that barge into every single race thread

and either disrupt them or denounce them as "unimportant" or the ravings of the "privileged" when they aren't people of color themselves and have no fucking authority to denote what is or is not "important" to any of us.

Thanks for the heads up on that poster, Spaz!

[Spazito]

95. It would be glorious indeed!

Have my fingers and toes crossed on it, lol. Totally agree with everything in your post as well!

[Comrade Grumpy]

55. The kid was holding a (toy) gun. What was the officer supposed to do?

How about waiting more than half a second before unloading on the kid?

How about finding out what is going on before unloading on the kid?

Why is it if a white guy has a gun, it's his 2nd Amendment right, but if a black kid has a (toy) gun, he is to be executed on the spot?

Gee, I'm starting to think someone is posting in bad faith.

[sendero]

58. The dispatcher..

... told him the gun was "probably fake".

Any defense of this cop's action here is sickening and anyone defending him please go fuck yourself.

[GGJohn]

82. That's false,

the 911 caller told the dispatcher that he thought the gun might be fake, the dispatcher never passed that on to the cops, now, that being said, rolling up on Tamir and immediately opening fire on him constitutes, IMHO, at the very least, manslaughter.

[jen63]

63. Rolled right up on top of him,

and gunned that CHILD down.

[JackInGreen]

64. troll, falsifier, liar, cad.

I don't need to say any of them, they're writ large on your face.

[prayin4rain]

65. BS. The cops pulled up, jumped out and shot the child immediately. A little boy

was murdered. Give it a rest.

[MoonRiver]

70. WTF? Shooting a kid without even asking questions is just plain murder.

They could have parked at a safe distance and called him on a bull horn, asking what's up, or gotten some support cops. Chances are that if the child had seen and heard all these cops gathering around, he would have dropped the toy gun and raised his hands. But some think black lives are cheap.

[TheKentuckian]

71. Fucking filthy lies. They essentially did a drive by on that poor child.

Just drove up and blasted him in a fucking heartbeat.

[bullwinkle428]

84. The car came skidding across a snowy, wet patch of grass and the cop literally

began firing before they even came to a stop - it was like a fucking mob hit!

[daleanime]

93. Amen....

[guillaumeb]

2. What was interesting about some reports of the incident

was that some news outlets emphasized that Tamir Rice was much bigger than the average 12 year old. A variation of the "large, hulking black monster" argument that Darren Wilson used to such good effect in Missouri.

[bravenak]

4. I noticed that. Looking at him, he looked average for his age.

Darker skin makes people look bigger in america. It's amazing how every black child murdered by cops gets made out to be some kind of magic negro. I wish we were magic.

[Kalidurga]

8. Yep magic people can dodge bullets a lot easier

[bravenak]

9. Ha!

[guillaumeb]

10. And here I thought that dark colors make people look smaller!!

I suppose that it only works for clothing.

[bravenak]

13. That's what I thought too.

Apparently our skin is bulky and demonic. Who knew?

[Chakab]

33. Black children are perceived to be older and more culpulable for their actions

than children of other races. There have been psychological studies on this phenomenon.

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/11/study_police_see_black_children_as_less_innocent_and_less_young_than_white_children/

[Kalidurga]

7. OMG when I saw that I was livid

I didn't even think he was all that average, I thought he was on the small side. What was infuriating was that someone said he looked like he was 21 years old. Seriously, how many 4 something 21 year olds have you seen?

[Lurks Often]

29. The coronor's report listed him as 5'7" and 195lbs

Link: http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/12/12/tamir-rice-autopsy-report-released/20300691/

[delrem]

81. He was large, but he walked around like a kid. A bored kid.

Because that's what he was. It's there in his movements, gathering snow for a snowball, mooching on, kicking stones.
Then he was gunned down without a chance.
Any cop wanting to use his gun like that, *instantaneously* on contact so the boy is dying on the ground within two seconds of pulling the car in, is doing a hit. The cops gun was already out before contact - and there were no preliminaries as when a cop is doing a proper job. It was a cold blooded hit.

Pretty damn hard to justify, if you ask me.

[Lurks Often]

88. I merely interjected factual information

in the post I responded to and to correct any inaccurate information out there.

The trial, if there is one, will be tried according to the laws governing the use of deadly force in the state of Ohio. It will NOT be tried based on what the rest of us feel, or think should happen.

[uppityperson]

83. "appearance was "consistent with the reported age of 12 years old or older," the report said"

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/tamir_rice_autopsy_shows_he_wa.html

Tamir's appearance was "consistent with the reported age of 12 years old or older," the report said.

[Lurks Often]

89. I provided factual information

in the post I responded to and to correct any inaccurate information out there.

The trial, if there is one, will be tried according to the laws governing the use of deadly force in the state of Ohio. It will NOT be tried based on what the rest of us feel, or think should happen.

[uppityperson]

90. I was adding more from the coroner's report.

[m-lekktor]

5. k & r! nt

[jen63]

11. Thank you, Your Honor.

I'm cautiously optimistic. I hope this poor family gets some real justice.

[bravenak]

12. I hope so too. His poor mother living in a homeless shelter.

So that she doesn't have to see the murder site everyday. It's a tragedy.

[jen63]

14. Such an incredible tragedy.

I think his 14 year old sister had to watch it happen also. All because the Cleveland PD didn't do their due diligence on a racist, asshole cop. I cannot imagine their heartbreak.

[bravenak]

15. I think they took her to the ground and handcuffed her for trying to help her brother.

They need to be charged for that too. Assualt of a minor.
That cops should have never had a gun after his mental breakdown during firearms training. He should have never been on th streets with a badge. I hope this combined with the doj report helps them to understand that big changes need to be made.

[jen63]

17. You are spot on and

it MUST be a national sweep. This shit HAS to stop.

[bravenak]

19. I agree. A national SWEEP!! It's a MESS!

[calimary]

22. And it worries me as well that the cop who quit in McKinney TX may eventually wind up

moving to another city in another state, and getting hired into another police force. As this officer did in Cleveland. Nobody bothered to look into his background AT ALL.

[questionseverything]

26. huge point you have made

we need to ask for legislation that tracks these "bad cops" so they do not get re hired elsewhere

[jen63]

46. We have to make their names viral.

[myrna minx]

39. That's heartbreaking.

I can't even imagine.

[bravenak]

41. Unbearable. I wonder how she goes on.

Probably on auto-pilot. I know I would be just going through the motions of living.

[sheshe2]

16. Breaks my heart that

Tamir had his whole life before him.

I hope those two spend a very long time behind bars, bravenak.

[bravenak]

18. Me too.

I'm sad to say that I feel excited to see these guys do a perp walk. Hope they do not get away with this. I cried for days after Darren Wilson walked. So depressed. This time I feel slightly hopeful.

[sheshe2]

21. It would feel good,

To see some justice for a change, bravenak.

I'll be hopeful with you.

[bravenak]

23. We have been super patient this year.

I hope it is not in vain.

[calimary]

24. Maybe what we all need to see is a few of these perp walks.

Because up til recently, just about every police officer on the wrong end of this overkill - NEVER HAD TO STAND TRIAL. NEVER HAD TO FACE ANY CONSEQUENCES. NEVER HAD TO DEAL WITH ANY DOWNSIDE AT ALL. They're too used to getting a free pass or a gentle rap on the knuckles by now. If they start seeing consequences for these extreme actions, maybe they'll start doing wiser, safer, and more responsive work. But this "shoot first, ask questions later (and answer questions hardly ever)" shit HAS TO STOP!!!!!!!

When there are never any consequences, what's to stop any of the police from doing whatever-the-hell they feel like doing?

I'm hoping that this asshole, who transferred seamlessly into a new job in a new city in a new state with none of the documented reports of his violent and reckless behavior following him from his earlier job, will NOT be able to do that a third time, to another kid in another city in another state.

[bravenak]

36. I agree.

They keep killing because there are no consequences. It has to stop.

[Starry Messenger]

20. k&r

One of these cases has to result in consequences. It just has to. I have to believe someone will get punished for this unrestrained killing.

[bravenak]

37. I have to believe it too.

They can't keep killing kids and walking away scott free.

[uppityperson]

25. Good, what Loehmann did was very wrong. Garmback should be disciplined somehow also

Driving up that close put Loehmann in danger IF Tamir had a real gun. And probably contributed to Loehmann's fast shooting. However, Loehman needs to never ever ever be a cop again, hope they charge him and get him some sort of sentence.

This shit has to stop.

And shame on the media for their first portrayal of the scary young black man and the photos of the gun. I am so glad there was video.

[markpkessinger]

30. I think the fact that they drove up so close to Tamir is an indication . . .

. . . that they knew he wasn't really a threat.

[d06204]

32. Perfect comment...

those demons knew he wasn't a threat. You don't drive that close to a "threat situation." That said, I believe his finger slipped and they are too cowardly to fess up for fear of legal/monetary consequences.

[malaise]

27. Watching Rev Al

Great news but watch the prosecutor carefully

[avebury]

31. It seemed like the Prosecutor was saying in his own

way - Judge you are not going to decide whether or not charges will be filed. I will (I mean the Grand Jury will).

I do not trust that Prosecutor.

[malaise]

53. Same here

[d06204]

34. is there a place online to watch...i'm at work?

[malaise]

54. I'm sure there is but I don't have a link

[stage left]

42. I hope they're charged

and convicted and jailed. I thought they had already walked like all the rest of the cops who murdered people of color this year.

[bravenak]

43. I hope so too

The justice system is just a system of bullshit and lies.

[stage left]

56. Yes.

I've come to that conclusion myself.

[Enthusiast]

48. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[hifiguy]

50. K&R

Hopefully the prosecutor assigned to the case will pursue it with the same zeal as a case against any non-cop defendant.

[ejbr]

60. For the safety

of good cops, the ones who make poor decisions (to put it kindly) must face justice or we will go back to the Wild West.

[JackInGreen]

62. all we ask is

That they're held as accountable as anyone else, almost more so given the position and presumed authority of the cops. This is a step in the right direction.

[bravenak]

66. I hope the prosecutor does the right thing and hauls their asses into the jail.

[JackInGreen]

67. a frog march

And book barrage would be preferable oh yes.
maybe a visit to my favorite barber, but I don't know if they deserve quite that much relief, those haircuts are REALLY short.

[brer cat]

68. A good first step.

I hope the prosecutor follows suit and makes the charge. We will never see a change until some of these racist cops are in prison.

[bravenak]

72. I'm worried about the prosecutor too.

Trying to be hopeful though.

[brer cat]

74. I am hopeful,

but so often the failure is with the prosecutor, Robert McCulloch being Exhibit A.

[libodem]

69. A little Social Justice is Necessary

Because Social Injustice riles people up. And it is clearly wrong.


Cheers to the good news.

[TheKentuckian]

73. A lot of justice is necessary what we have now on too many fronts is entropy

A little is better than none but more than a little is needed.

[libodem]

75. Something has gone crazy in law enforcement

Maybe it is the technology, and the war on everything mission creep, that has sent police on an authoritarian power trip? I don't know?

They seem a lot more like an army than mall cops.

[XemaSab]

77. You think this hasn't been going on since forever?

The only new thing is cell phones and YouTube.

[delrem]

76. It is to weep.

I usually don't watch videos like the ones released in the Tamir Rice killing. And I don't have a TV, so I've cocooned myself.
But tonight I've watched several videos, the one issued by the police, others not tampered with by "time compression" etc., and a long one showing a half-hour "aftermath".

It was a hit. The boy was wandering around at a somnambulant pace, as when you're plenty bored, then a car pulls up fast and two seconds later he's down, shot. I couldn't believe what I'd seen, so I replayed it a few times and yup, the boy was shot down before anyone, of whatever age, could be expected to process what's happening.
It resembled a hit, to me.

His poor sister! She's close enough that she saw or heard and in less than a minute she's racing there, to be thrown down, handcuffed, then frogmarched to the cop car that was used by the perps. There, handcuffed, she could only watch as her brother bled out just a few feet in front of her, an ever expanding sea of cops from all districts around the neighbourhood pouring in to watch, get in on the excitement, while still her brother bled. It took that sea of cops, who could scream in all sirens wailing in seconds, or a couple minutes if from further away, fourteen minutes before they could get him on a stretcher and out of the scene. Then it went on, cops milling around, none bothering to see to his sister, still handcuffed in the cop car, who helplessly watched.

Racist? Holy crap, that was first degree murder and the perps are psychos without an ounce of empathy.

[bravenak]

78. That is the same impression I got from the video.

It looked like a gang shooting, on where the gang members are not scared of being caught.

[delrem]

80. I have no idea what can be done to fix it, though.

Other than that it's unacceptable that anybody is treated like that boy was treated and it's unacceptable that the problem is endemic and it clearly requires a system-wide fix. Not just some bullshit "on the job sensitivity training" -- I mean, it couldn't happen like that, time after time in communities all over, if the problem were rooted in "a few bad apples".

[stevenleser]

79. K&R. That video is horrible.

[Liberal_in_LA]

85. justice

[Damansarajaya]

91. The police arguments are contradictory--

1. I feared for my life, so I had to shoot.

2. I put myself in the line of fire, so I had to fear for my life.

Wait, what?

If the cops thought that the child had a real gun, why did they pull up to within feet of him? A handgun is only accurate out to about 50 feet--accuracy tests on handguns are often done at 25 or 15 feet.

So park one hundred feet away and get on the bull horn.

But no, they drive up to an arm's length and then, guess what, they fear for their lives, so they have to shoot.

Same deal with Ofc. Wilson in Ferguson. He claimed he feared for his life . . . that's why he shot a round in the car. Then when Michael Brown is running away, he "feared for his life" so much that he got out of his car and chased him. Then when Brown turned around, well, he had to shoot. He feared for his life after all.

I had a situation in which someone was robbing my truck in the driveway. I feared for my life, so guess what, I DIDN'T approach him with a gun. To me, that's what people do when they really fear for their lives.