Markos Moulitsas: There's nothing to not like about Bernie Sanders...

[CreekDog]

Markos says, but his campaign is a lot like Dean's (and Markos supported Dean), in that he's mainly campaigning to white, activist liberals in the Democratic Party.

He also says, "In the end, that's not enough to win the primary."

"He's got the Daily Kos demographic down-pat..."

"It baffles me that he hasn't moved beyond his core base to broaden his appeal."

Currently being interviewed by Mark Thompson (Make It Plain With Mark Thompson) on Sirius XM


Markos is not calling anyone racist or racially insensitive. He's basically saying that the party has more diverse interests than are being appealed to by the Sanders' campaign.

When you think about it, if you fix income inequality, do we just end up with less poverty, but minorities (and I'll include women in that) still experience more of it than white folks? This does need to be addressed, in fact, ONE BIG reason for poverty is that minorities are treated in an unfair and inferior way in this country, so they end up with less wealth and the ranks of our poor and working poor are larger because of this.

This is in Bernie's wheelhouse, but it's not just a structural economic argument, it's a social one that needs to be addressed too.

I have no doubt that he supports the right things on these issues, but he has to speak to these issues to expand his support.

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. I don't understand. Is Bernie whiter than Clinton, Chafee or O'Malley because of his hair? n/t

[CreekDog]

2. you seem pretty confused, try reading the quote you're responding to next time

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. "Nothing"? I beg to differ.

"he's mainly campaigning to white, activist liberals in the Democratic Party."

And that's where it ends. I maintain that Bernie's appeal is very limited outside the demo that already adores him.

[daredtowork]

4. lol at crafty third way kos!

He's supporting Clinton by deconstructing Bernie.

I've been taking screenshots of some of his Third Way comments in local politics. Will get my act togethet to photobucket some and post them later. This guy is a parasite on progressive politics.

The lame attempt to make Bernie weak on race, which relies on an awkward separation of the social from the economic, is Hillary trying to deflect attention from her non-stance on the TPP.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Did he say anything that was wrong?

The last few polls I saw showed that minorities (especially blacks and hispanics) have flocked to Clinton while Bernie's base is mostly made up of white people.

What Markos said is accurate.

[daredtowork]

48. You might be interested to know that

Markos has it in for the "progressive" wing of the Berkeley city council - who are the last stand trying to protect South Berkeley from a racist city budget - that divested South Berkeley's community agencies while freely handing millions to developers of chiefly luxury housing. There was a City Plan for South Berkeley written in 1999 promising things like home ownership, commercial loans, and jobs to support the black community. South Berkeley got none of those things. Renting was encouraged there instead, leaving people there vulnerable to a huge speculation bubble driven by the developers Kos favors. South Berkeley is 70% renters and 30% at the poverty level. Berkeley has lost 13% of its black population since the year 2000, and that population currently stands at 8%. Additionally all the public housing in South Berkeley was sold off to private developers, with kickbacks going to City Council members. Ever since the city changed the zoning laws in favor of developers the way Kos favored, international investment firms have been buying up buildings, heating up the market. The housing crisis has forced people into units they can't afford - and many have turned to AirBNB to make up the difference: but this takes rooms off the market that students used to get, increasing the housing crisis further. Kos also seems to be pro-AirBNB, given some recent comments.

So - you are telling me Kos is all for minorities because he supports Clinton. I'm telling you he's not because his own political activities in his own cities are all about white-washing and blaming progressives for getting in the way of his luxury condos. Don't be his tool.

[CreekDog]

8. Markos isn't Third Way

his advocacy has been against Third Way since the beginning.

I think you're confusing his desire to win with being Third Way.

[Exilednight]

23. Win at all costs, including, but not limited to, nominating

Republican lite candidates with horrible economic policy is Third Way at its finest.

[daredtowork]

47. Just got home (Screenshots up now!)

Last edited Fri Jun 12, 2015, 01:11 AM - Edit history (2)

Kos's personal politics are very different from the public politics he uses to make money.

I have some screenshots. Give me a bit to get an online account for them together.

Ps. The screenshot I DON'T have is Kos coming out for Sit/Lie laws - which he actually did ON Daily Kos. He claimed his wife was "scared" to walk by the homeless, which was the ridiculous lie being peddled by our Third Way Downtown Business Association (they recently became famous for a youtube video showing their Green Shirt downtown Ambassadors beating up some homeless people). In the same thread, he also referred to the homeless in dehumanizing fashion - I forget what he said now, but it was something along the lines of referring to people as "it".

Anyway, those politics mentioned above are squarely in line with these other comments. Which I will start pasting in this post as soon as I have them online.

Okay here is a guide to what Kos is like around his hometown. To understand these comments you have to understand that:

1) Arreguin, Worthington, and Anderson are considered the progressive wing of the City Council: but Third Way "Developer Democrats" - who are taking money hand over fist from outside real estate firms, developer unions, and investor firms - like to represent them as extremists.

2) Max Anderson is the black representative of South Berkeley: the poor part of town that has generally been cheated by the rich part, and is now suffering from general divestment, withholding of poverty support services, and chumming of the waters for speculators. A couple of the Council Members are actually in the real estate business themselves.

3) I'm throwing in a comment about the Berkeley Post Office. That was a cause celebre for progressives around here - it's now part of a corruption scandal that enriched Diane Feinstein's gazillionaire real estate investor husband. Note which side Kos is on.

4) The AirBNB remark is ambiguous, but I think anyone could have gone to AirBNB and seen over a thousand listings there - many full units with kitchens - all flouting the current law in Berkeley. Baiting like this tells me Kos is pro AirBNB, and the weird isolation of this comment makes me think he normally trolls a lot anonymously.

So, here are some screenies of Kos being against progressives in Berkeley:

Developers good, objection to luxury condos where international investors park their money and do nothing to alleviate the housing crisis or contribute to the local economy...must be from NIMBYs. Curious that City Hall meetings are filled with Affordable Housing advocates then.



The infamous Post Office remark: sucking up to the Developer corruption money yet again, Kos...?



Kos is under the impression that the historic Berkeley of houses was built by developers and commodity speculators instead of homesteaders. WTF?



Kos hopes ALL the progressives on Berkeley City Council will go down. Because they are in the way of his precious luxury condos. Note the black representative of the black part of town that's being steadily white-washed in his fantasy mix.



Again, Kos praying for the progressive candidate to go down. This was after an attempt at "red-mapping" Worthington's district. He still won.



The mysterious AirBNB remark: yes Kos it is over 1000 at least.



Here is Kos contributing to the problem by hiring remote talent who add to the housing crunch instead of helping to alleviate the unemployment problem in South Berkeley. (He was a pioneering gentrifier by buying the relatively cheap property here, by the way.)



These were just some screenies I culled last night after being not-so-impressed by his AirBNB intervention. It really makes me nauseous that he makes his living crowdsourcing progressive hopes and dreams when in his own city he's on the red side of Hillary's Purple Triangle. He claims to be driven by data, but he fails to open his eyes and see who is getting the money and how the people of color are being driven out.

[madfloridian]

6. The poll shook them up there.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/09/1391630/-First-Daily-Kos-Democratic-Primary-Straw-Poll

In the end the implications that Bernie Sanders may be racist, and by association his supporters are unimportant will come back to bite someone in the butt. I do not refer to Markos, haven't heard the interview.

[CreekDog]

7. so you're saying that Bernie's support has grown because white people are upset

that they were called racist?

that's ridiculous, luckily.

if it were true it would mean that white people changed their votes because they don't like being called racists.

[madfloridian]

10. I am a strong Bernie Sanders supporter.

Now, here's the problem. I don't think it's wise to keep emphasizing the talking point that his supporters are mostly white.

He's going after issues others are afraid to even mention, much less push day after day. He's barely becoming known to the public. His economic message is vital to our country. He's scarcely had time to fully develop a campaign.

Now...another problem. It's kind of like a double edged sword because if anyone denies he and his supporters are racist.... it is taken to mean that we really are.

At this point in time I am planning to vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary. And if he doesn't make it to vote for the nominee.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/09/1391630/-First-Daily-Kos-Democratic-Primary-Straw-Poll

[Cali_Democrat]

11. Bernie can't win without minorities

It just isn't possible.

Pointing out that simple fact is actually a good thing.

Why can't he attract minorities?

This is a situation he will need to remedy if he truly wants to become President.

[madfloridian]

15. Clinton will win. The powerful are on her side.

The money is on her side.

Bernie does not have "power" support...just us.

BTW here's an interesting post at DKos from 2008. It means nothing, just interesting in the light of the racist Bernie talk.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/03/05/469677/-Clinton-campaign-making-Obama-blacker

[Cali_Democrat]

21. "just interesting in the light of the racist Bernie talk."

What racist Bernie talk?



Also, you don't think Bernie will win?

[madfloridian]

24. It's possible. I know there are many who will vote for him.

More than anyone expected. Hard to say.

I am backing out of the conversation now.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. Bye. nt

[Egnever]

19. what a dishonest argument

at this point in the race when it was Obama vs Clinton Obama wasn't attracting the minorities either.

[JI7]

26. But he was trying to get minority votes

[Egnever]

27. How?

and what is Bernie doing differently?

[JI7]

28. He held many campaign events in different communities

[Egnever]

30. Bernie isn't doing that?

[JI7]

31. to be fair bernie isn't really running to win

It's more about bringing up certain issues. Which is fine

[Art_from_Ark]

33. That's not what Bernie says

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2015/04/29/sanders-explains-presidential-run/26606341/

[JI7]

34. well of course anyone who runs is not going to say they aren't in it to win

[Art_from_Ark]

36. And you know he's not in it to win, how?

He's certainly not sitting on his laurels, and he's drawing crowds.

[JI7]

38. lack of campaign organization around the country. not ready to take on Clintons

And he saw 2008 and how much she wants to win.

[daredtowork]

51. Is that Bernie can't?

Or that Clinton is trying to whip up an environment that makes it seem like he can't?

In order to deflect from the criticism she won't come out against the TPP.

This is what all the separating the social from the economic has been about: Hillary can only look like the pro-minorities candidate if she can detach the economic, which Bernie owns.

But all this about Bernie somehow not being able to attract minorities just because he's white is rhetorical B.S. Hillary is white, too.

I've been crying out all along that Barbara Lee would have made a much better candidate than either of them, but we're stuck with what we've got.

Bernie is not unattractive to minorities...unless pushed that way by Hillary followers.

[CreekDog]

12. Markos says that his site is roughly 80% white

He's not saying these folks are racist, because in the same interview, he pointed out that one of the strongest topics of interest to his largely white, activist readership is the mistreatment of African Americans by the police.

What he was saying is that because Bernie's base cares very much about the treatment of minorities and those issues, there is NO reason for Bernie NOT to talk about it. He argues that not only would it help Bernie with his own base, it would help expand that base.

Don't even get into the whole thing of I'm calling Bernie supporters racist or that Markos is doing the same.

He argued the opposite.

[madfloridian]

16. Exactly he is not playing the race card. I was not talking about him.

[boston bean]

17. Playing the race card. Hmmmm

[CreekDog]

18. "race card" is a Republican term, i hate reading that term here

the idea that identifying racism is somehow "playing a card" is offensive to anyone who is a liberal and cares about Civil Rights.

[madfloridian]

20. Wow, we agree. I hate reading implications just as much.

It's not a good term at all. It's not a good thing to do.

[m-lekktor]

22. I agree. nt

[Johonny]

9. Was that a problem with Dean or a problem with the DNC

not being able to get there candidates out there to there base. Howard Dean had no problem running the DNC and his campaign model was used by Obama to successfully win the presidency. Kerry meanwhile... lost to probably the worst president in American history. So Thank God they marginalized Dean...

[CreekDog]

13. Campaign mechanics shouldn't be confused with the campaign message

And we're talking Dean's 2004 strategy.

[Johonny]

39. When he took over the DNC

his message seemed to work just fine...

[CreekDog]

44. his message in the 2004 primaries is what Markos was referring to

the reason he was effective as DNC chairman was his organizational abilities and leadership.

if you want to confuse the issue go ahead and continue to try.

if you want to argue in good faith, then don't pretend we're talking about his DNC chairmanship when the reference was to his campaign strategy and message in 2004.

those aren't eh same things.

i'm not supposed to be arguing with Republicans, don't debate me like I am.

[Johonny]

46. well, lets go another direction if you don't believe me

Obama was said to be in trouble. He only appealed only to minorities. The polls proved Hillary had broader appeal but Obama couldn't win the white vote. McCain was going to get all those Hillary voters. But it turns out Obama's message worked just fine once voters heard it. Dean supported Health Care and grassroots, same as Obama. Meanwhile the mythical Hillary only voter melted away. The myth Sanders or Dean couldn't win the minority vote is likely just that- a myth. The fact is early primaries simply go after rural voters that happen to trend white. They also generally don't reflect much the urban democratic base. People have wondered if Democrats would be better off not messaging early to voters that don't reflect the base but to date the primaries are roughly the same. If Sanders manages to become a national candidate and survives deep into the election cycle he likely will get a chance at broader appeal as Obama did. Worrying about June polls when candidates are focused on rural states is a little silly. I know what Dean's message and campaign was, it turns out to be close to Obama's. Together they won the house, senate and white house so I'll cut Dean a lot of slack.

[JI7]

50. this is wrong, early polls had Hillary winning the Minority votes, it was only after Obama won Iowa

that minorities (at least mostly black voters) begin to support him .

Obama's strategy was to win Iowa which would give him a bump in later states. but he made sure to have an organization and campaign in later states also so he would already have something in place to use to take advantage of his rising support.

[JI7]

14. kerry won minority and female votes. he even beat Edwards in most southern states

Most dean and edwards supporters were higher income white voters .

Kerry should have done some things differently but he was attacked far worse than Dean and it was closer than dean did.

[randys1]

29. Gee, I wonder if we should ask some NON whites what they think?

[leftofcool]

32. You can try, but you know how it goes around here.

Personally, I can't believe some of the junk I am ready in DU these days as it pertains to the AA forum. The audacity of any white person to think they have all the answers for Blacks just astounds me. The idea that "trickle down" justice works in ridiculous!

[Zorra]

35. As a member of a minority, I find this non-issue Third Way circle jerk argument insulting

beyond words.

If you can't figure out why, try imagining this: I can see, I can read, and I can even think for myself.

Imagine that! Believe it or not, I might actually be reasonably intelligent, despite the fact that I'm not a rich straight white person, like "normal Americans".

I don't need a bunch of money grubbing rich people at some globalist think tank telling me what I should believe in order to get their puppet candidate elected, when I can see perfectly what is going on with my own two eyes.

If anything, Bernie Sanders is 1000 times more likely to significantly improve every aspect of my life than Hillary Clinton has any intention of doing.

We won't get fooled again.

[leftofcool]

40. And that is good for you

but other minorities do not feel the same way you do and they are consistently put down, told they will be voting against their own interests if they support Hillary, talked down to, insulted, called third wayers, etc.... Don't they deserve the same respect you are asking for? Are they not also intelligent? Can they too see with their own eyes? Not everyone is on Team Bernie.

[appalachiablue]

41. Very good to know your point of view and independence regarding the candidates.

I agree that Bernie will work to improve the lives of all including minorities and PoC.

[Juicy_Bellows]

43. Well said!

I couldn't agree more.

[CreekDog]

45. you must be in the wrong thread because you're referring to an argument i didn't make, nor post

let me know where that thread you're referring to is.

[ucrdem]

37. Shocking.

[RobertEarl]

42. Another race division post on DU?

How f'n embarrassing.

If MLK were alive, I bet he'd be a big backer of Bernie.

Throwing out the race canard these days is racism, cold nasty racism.

[Matariki]

49. I suspect it's because he really doesn't want to win the primary

and that he's doing it solely to influence the Democratic platform and election topics.

I mean, who in their right mind would want to be President? And Senator Sanders is one of the saner people in office.

[merrily]

52. roll eyes

[DemocraticWing]

53. I think Bernie is the best candidate on LGBT isssues.

And I think there's a reasonable argument that he's the best when it comes to issues involving racial equality. That's not to mention his unabashed economic left-wing views, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

I'm kind of confused by the assertions that Bernie is secretly trying to win over economic populist but socially conservative voters. I know a lot of people exactly like that...those people voted for Hillary in droves in 08 and are planning to do it again next year. Nothing wrong with her (I think she's a perfectly fine progressive and will vote for her if she gets the nod) getting that support but it seems a bit strange to paint this as Bernie Sanders' MO when it really isn't.