Of Bullshit Meters and our current politicians

[Bonobo]

You could argue that regular folk who have to watch out for being ripped off of the few remaining possessions they have have BETTER Bullshit meters than people with more economic security.

Daily life provides people with a bullshit meter that is sensitive in inverse proportion to their economic comfort level.

The reason that Bernie Sanders is gaining popularity despite his seemingly huge negatives (too old, too Brooklyn, too Jewish, bad hair, "fringe left", etc.) is that HE DOES NOT BULLSHIT.

He is authentic and sincere and it is FUCKING OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE. Why? Because we have bullshit meters.

Guess what? Even the people you think of as "dumb" or "under informed" have bullshit meters. Hell, even Republicans have bullshit meters.

There will come a time, soon I hope, that politicians are increasingly going to be called out and forced to pay for being such calculating, swindling, prevaricating grease mongers and oil salesmen.

In the meantime, listen to your BS meters people. They are more reliable than the media for telling who is speaking the truth and who is greasing you up.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Nailed it.

Thank you.

[Bonobo]

6. Thanks, Manny.

It's not complicated, is it?

[madokie]

2. At first I thought my bullshit meter had broken

when Bernie would talk the needle never moved at all. No one else ever caused this to happen. So I go have a listen to one of the clown car occupants and sure enough that needle was doing its dance.

Bernie is the real deal, talks real issues. Issues he's been dealing with the whole time he has been a politician. The man is solid as a rock and as comfortable as a well worn shoe. He fits just right, not too tight, not too loose.

[hootinholler]

5. No annoying nail wearing through the right heel

I hear ya MO

[madokie]

13. I keep enough bullshit on that right heal

from mashing them down to help keep it pretty cushioned. Only problem with that is that bullshit smell. I can put up with the smell if I don't have to hear them though

[RKP5637]

51. Yep! Exactly! Right on! n/t

[MohRokTah]

3. He'll break yer heart. eom

[Bonobo]

4. Hearts actually aren't involved this time. I know because Obama had mine.

That's when I realized my own BS meter needed some work.

He had me hook, line and sinker, but I forgive myself because we were all pretty fucked up and damaged after the Bush years.

But no, it's not like that with Bernie.

It's so obviously straight-talking no-nonsense stuff. Not at all like the visions of hope and change that Obama made us believe in.

[Art_from_Ark]

9. Bernie has a track record of 30+ years.

And it's a pretty darn good one.

[MohRokTah]

11. Bernie has set off my BS meter for years. eom

[Bonobo]

14. Oh. LOL.

I don't think your BS meter is compatible with most people's then.

[Art_from_Ark]

17. It definitely needs to be recalibrated

[MohRokTah]

18. It as dead on with Thom Hartmann

He's a merchant of woo.

[Bonobo]

21. Wow, you unmasked Thom Hartmann as an evil shill!

I'm going with you, cowboy!

[MohRokTah]

24. No, as a merchant of woo. eom

[navarth]

26. What is woo, please? nt

[Art_from_Ark]

38. Merchant of Woo was a play by Shakespeare, as I recall

Some guy gets a loan so he can woo his girlfriend.

[navarth]

40. So Thom Hartmann and Bernie are borrowing money for their girlfriends according to

that poster.

It seems like a waste when someone's advocacy makes them ridiculous. It certainly doesn't win anybody over to their point of view, so what's the point? Just to hurt the feelings of Bernie supporters? They'll have to do better than that.

Oh well, I should have known better than to respond to that poster.

Thanks for the Shakespearean reference.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

54. Woo comes from the term woo-woo.

It basically means pseudoscience.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo

[Buns_of_Fire]

66. ...which, of course, derives from Dr. Curly Howard's pioneering work in the field.

[jeff47]

41. That's because yours is wired backwards.

Trade deals and tax cuts sure have been great, haven't they Moh?

[RoccoR5955]

55. Check the polarity on that meter.

The red wire one goes on the positive, on the left side, and the black wire goes to the positive on the right side.
Perhaps it has been wired incorrectly for years!

[RiverLover]

22. I love this post. Obama had mine too. He broke it.

And now my BS meter is on overdrive. That's why I wanted Liz to run & why I'm so grateful Bernie is running.

[zentrum]

23. I remember inauguration day 2008

…how it felt and I was so happy and relieved and then this weird chill came over me, and I had the thought that O was going to break all those young people's hearts.

He did some good things, is a good man, had terrific forces aligned against him—but he's a heart breaker.

Go Bernie!

[ms liberty]

7. Not worried about that...

My preference of candidate is not a matter of the heart.

[daleanime]

10. Don't you mean.....

you hope he breaks our hearts?

[MohRokTah]

12. He's a politician.

Nuff said.

[daleanime]

16. And you're hopeful....

confirmed.

[MohRokTah]

19. He's a politician. eom

[daleanime]

20. I appreciate your honesty......

you hopeful person you.

[JDPriestly]

44. An honest politician.

When he makes a proposal, he can tell you how he is going to find the money to pay for the proposal.

Waiting for the other candidates to do the same.

He is asking us to volunteer for him, to elect him and then, unlike Hillary who said in her Saturday speech that she would deal with Congress, Bernie says we have to help him deal with Congress. We have to keep the pressure on, keep organizing and keep pushing Congress even after Bernie is elected.

That's a big difference right there.

For Hillary, it is about becoming the president, sitting in the White House and exercising power and negotiating skill.

For Bernie, it is about becoming the president, sitting in the White House and calling on us to form a movement to push Congress to do what needs to be done.

The fundamental views on governing and approaches to governing are different.

Bernie has experience as a mayor -- in an executive position in which he had to work with others to get things done. And he was a success in that judging by the fact that he was elected and re-elected to office following his service as a mayor.

Bernie has many years of legislative experience and understands both the broad view and the minutiae of budget matters. He is now the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee.

Hillary was in the White House as a sort of emissary of her husband the president. She worked on policy issues, but was not in the executive position. The buck did not stop with her as it did with Bernie when he was mayor.

Hillary served in the Senate but not as long as Bernie.

Bernie's voting record is excellent and very long. Hillary voted for the Iraq War Resolution and the Patriot Act among other bills. (Absent for the Bankruptcy Reform which was a terrible bill.) Bernie opposes the XL Pipeline and the TPP. Hillary is silent on her views on those specific proposals. A nearly certain sign that she knows they are unpopular within her party and that an honest, specific and full answer on her views on the TPP and the XL Pipeline will alienate a lot of voters among her supporters.

Hillary was Secretary of State, but again, was not in the Senate nearly as long as Bernie.
And Hillary's work as Secretary of State had good moments and bad moments. Mixed review on that.

[rhett o rick]

47. I think the person that pretends to be liberal while all the time believes in the

conservative agenda, is the one that will break hearts. Pres Obama did. Of course those that blindly follow and don't pay attention to the ideology of their authoritative leader, can't have their hearts broken.

Sen Sanders wants the billionaires to pay their share, HRC said at her announcement that she wants government to encourage (tax breaks) those billionaires that are willing to invest in American jobs. In other words, not reducing the inequality but just raising the tide.

[hifiguy]

8. That's it in a nutshell!

[DanTex]

15. Good point. E.g. "Hillary is no better than a Republican" sends the BS meter off the chart.

As does "Bernie Sanders can win the general election".

[rhett o rick]

48. HRC is better than a Republicon for a few social issues, but she pretty much agrees with

them on economics, war, NSA domestic spying, etc. She went wayyyy out of her way in her speech the other day to avoid saying she wanted to reduce the economic inequality. Her solution is to "encourage" the billionaires to invest in businesses that will provide jobs.

Gloat about an HRC victory while you can.

By the way, do you now support the Citizens United decision now that it looks like it will help HRC win? $1.5 billion dollars expected to buy the WH. Sooner or later the people will prevail over the billionaires.

[DanTex]

50. That's absurd. How does she "pretty much agree with them" on economic issues.

For example, she voted against the Bush tax cuts. She supports raising the minimum wage, opposes privatizing social security, etc. You mention Citizens United, which Hillary of course opposes: yet another difference between her and the GOP.

Also, on foreign policy, sure, she's more of a hawk than a lot of progressives would like, but again you're seriously deluded if you think she's anywhere near the GOP. For one, she acknowledges that the IWR was a mistake, something the GOP doesn't do. She voted against the Iraq troop surge. And despite all the complaints from the left that Obama-Clinton policy is too warmongering, surely you can't have missed the chorus of GOP leaders insisting that we should be much more aggressive, should have kept troops in Iraq, etc.

I'm curious where idiotic ideas like the "pretty much agree with them" thing comes from. How did you become so misinformed? Is there some website full of falsehoods that all the Hillary bashers read? And nobody ever bothers to check up on any of the facts?

[hifiguy]

52. Anyone who spends as much time as she does hanging around with

and accepting money from the biggest thieves on Wall Street does NOT have the best interests of the 99% at heart or anywhere else. Who your friends are and who your enemies are gives decisive insight into character.

[DanTex]

53. Aha. So it has nothing to do with policy whatsoever. Glad we have that established.

It really is about pointless nonsense like getting paid to give speeches. She's got a decades long clear track record of working towards progressive economic policies, but one picture of her next to Lloyd Blankfein, and the Hillary-haters go berserk.

I'm starting to understand.

[Dustlawyer]

56. Hillary will do a couple of really good things if elected, much like Obama, but

at the end of the day she has to do what's she promised her donors she would do. Just like almost all of the D.C. Politicians, she takes their money! Things were off the rails even before Citizen's United and we are ALWAYS going to lose when it comes to economic issues and white collar crime. They paid for those non-indictments after the Crash. That's why they pay relatively small fines for the different frauds/scams they get caught at from time to time, cost of doing business.
Do we want yet another President to do their bidding? Bernie won't sell is out! He wants OUR help because he knows that is the only hope to be able to defeat all of that money! Sooner or later we have to make our move to try to gain some control back and reign those Plutocrats, banks and other corporations in. The alternative is we bend over and take it until they take it all.

You would be surprised by how much their money can do, but if enough of us decide the time is right, the time is now, we CAN DO THIS!!! We know that politicians like Bernie Sanders don't come along very often. This is his one shot to run and we need this pretty bad at this point. This is why I support Bernie Sanders!

[hifiguy]

57. I agree with every word!!!

[rhett o rick]

58. Let's start with her betraying Democrats, Americans and one million dead Iraqi's when

she, not only supported the worst president in history, but she helped promulgate the lies about WMD.

Even now the neocons love her. http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/24541-focus-why-neocons-love-hillary
That's only one of many articles.

Wall Street loves her, Goldman-Sachs CEO can't see a difference between HRC and Bush. Loves em both. Bush v H. Clinton is win-win for Goldman-Sachs and the billionaires.

Where Sen Sanders wants the billionaires to pay their fair share of the burden, just the other day HRC didn't agree. She thinks the government should encourage billionaires to do the right thing. The rising tide bullshit.

She isn't the same as the Republicons because she supports some social issues but economically she is deadly for the 99%. She supports fracking and the TPP. Hello.

[DanTex]

59. Gee I didn't realize the IWR was an economic issue.

But like I said, she has admitted that that was a mistake, and in any case, the GOP is far more hawkish than she is.

Wall Street loves her, Goldman-Sachs CEO can't see a difference between HRC and Bush. Loves em both. Bush v H. Clinton is win-win for Goldman-Sachs and the billionaires.

Childish stupidity. "Wall street" is more than one person, did you know that? Some people on Wall Street like her, others don't, just like the rest of America. Some people on Wall Street even like Bernie Sanders.

What matters (of course) is what Hillary actually stands for, not that you can find someone who works in the finance industry who likes her.

No wonder Hillary bashers don't want to talk about policy. In my last post I went down the list of major economic issues. There's miles of distance between her and and the GOP on every one. Taxes, minimum wage, SS, climate change, etc. All you've got is irrational hatred.

[rhett o rick]

60. I disagree. "But like I said, she has admitted that that was a mistake"

Yes I see that repeated by her supporters but have yet to see that quote. And it falls a long way from being an apology for the betrayal. I brought it up to make the point that she and the Republicons agree on a lot. They agreed on the IWar at the time. Easy now to regret but the damage has been done. Why choose her with that baggage when we have choices that we can trust?

"Childish stupidity. "Wall street" is more than one person, did you know that? Some people on Wall Street like her, others don't, just like the rest of America. Some people on Wall Street even like Bernie Sanders. " If you want to go that route, Wall Street is a street and doesn't support any candidate. The point you are trying to avoid is that the bankers and financiers on Wall Street love her. Goldman-Sachs has given her cash money for her personal fortune to tell them that she thinks picking on the banks is foolish. The CEO of Goldman-Sachs (the worst of the corrupt banksters) told his exec's that he would be ok with either Bush or Clinton. Her recent speech showed that she wasn't willing to take them on but to "encourage" them (most likely with more tax breaks) to help the 99%. I think she was selling the rising tide bullcrap. We must get the wealthy to pay their fair share and soon.

If you are ok with the status quo that will see the banksters continue to rip us off, then vote for Clinton.

[DanTex]

61. "I've made it very clear that I made a mistake, plain and simple"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hillary-clinton-mistake-iraq-war

So now you know.

You claimed that she agrees with the GOP on a lot, but as I pointed out, when you actually look at the issues, this is completely false. She disagrees with them on practically everything. The one large counterexample is the IWR, which she admits is a mistake, and she also voted against the troop surge late in the Bush administration.

But across the board, taxes, minimum wage, global warming, healthcare, social security, equal pay, etc. They are on opposite sides of all of them. And this is why Hillary-bashers don't want to talk about actual issues.

The point you are trying to avoid is that the bankers and financiers on Wall Street love her. Goldman-Sachs has given her cash money for her personal fortune to tell them that she thinks picking on the banks is foolish.

And, I'm right. Saying that "bankers and financiers love her" is stupid, because bankers, like all other kinds of people, have a wide range of opinions. There are some financiers like George Soros and Tom Steyer who champion progressive causes. There are others like Steven Schwartzman who champion conservative causes. And so there are some bankers who like Hillary, and others who hate her. And then there are people like Blankfein who are somewhere in the middle, saying he would be OK with either.

You're not the only person who hates Hillary with a burning passion because you saw a picture of her next to Lloyd Blankfein or Henry Kissinger. In fact, people like you -- who ignore the issues and instead make the whole thing personal -- is exactly who the GOP has in mind when they spend money trying to get Democrats to bash Hillary from the left. They're looking for people who ignore policy and substance. And evidently there are a lot of those people, at least on DU.

[rhett o rick]

62. I don't like H. Clinton because she betray us in favor of George Bush and the Republicons.

I acknowledge what you posted but it was an unforgivable mistake. The decision to invade Iraq is not forgivable. Hundreds of thousands died. We have tens of thousands of vets in this country that have had their lives ruined. The war destroyed the economy of the 99% and made the 0.01% more wealthy. The war allowed the conservatives to override our Constitution and spy on all of us.

She still talks about being tough in the world, which is code for more wars. In her recent speech she talked about the tided raises all boats bull crap. Do you believe that.

I will be glad to talk issues but not with someone bent on name calling. If you can't have a discussion w/o name calling, then you don't want to discuss very badly.

[DanTex]

63. OK. For some people the IWR vote is definitely going to be a deal-breaker.

Like I said in previous posts, Hillary's record on most issues, including economic ones, is highly progressive. You said she "pretty much agrees with them" on economic issues. This is obviously incorrect. You can go down the line on economic issues -- taxes, min wage, equal pay, safety net, social security, healthcare, etc. and on all of them there is a huge difference between her and the GOP. Much larger than the difference between Hillary and Bernie.

There's also a huge difference in foreign policy, though I will admit she's more of a hawk that I would like her to be.

[rhett o rick]

64. How does she stand on regulating the banks? Maybe bringing back Glass-Steagall.

The TPP will have a huge economic impact, how does she stand on that?

Who will she appoint to the Treasury? Rubin, Geitner, Summers? Very important.

[DanTex]

65. She supports the reforms in Dodd-Frank, although she wasn't in congress to vote for them.

She hasn't proposed any new regulations, as far as I know, and hasn't given any indication who she would appoint to treasury.

On TPP, she has made it clear that labor and environmental rules need to be at the center of any new trade agreement. In the past, she has criticized NAFTA and voted against CAFTA citing those as reasons, and she was working to make TPP a new standard of trade agreement on those issues. Whether she got everything she wanted, I don't know, since she wasn't the only one working on it, and even now the final draft isn't complete.

[rhett o rick]

67. The problem with the TPP is that the politicians only discuss the trade part, which

is a small fraction. How about the big gains for big pharma and higher prescription prices? How about the voiding of environment laws and "buy American" clauses? Currently state governments can regulate trains that come into their state carrying dangerous cargo. The TPP strips away that power and corps can sue state or federal governments that restrict their potential profits.

Do you see my concern with who she will pick for economic positions? Rubin, Geitner and Summers are corrupt and have ruined our economy for their own personal gains and that of their friends.

[NRaleighLiberal]

25. My bullshit meter runs on pretty much all the time!

only time I turn it off is when I am spending time with my wife, or in my garden (which is, thankfully, most of my day).

And by not watching TV or reading the paper, I don't have to use it then either!

[Jack Rabbit]

27. Some people seem to have defective Bullshit meters

The BSMs in their PCs are behaving like they were infected by a well-known virus that entered some PCs as early as 1993, known as the Rubin Virus, named for the scam artist who developed it. The Rubin Virus attacks your PC's BSM by skewing the data filtered through it by a critical 1%. When combined with the infamous Florida microchip, introduced in 2000 by a scamster named Katherine Harris, it can have very bizarre results.

Symptoms of the Florida microchip is data which shows that Bush the Frat Boy actually won the election of 2000. Of course, what the Florida microchip does is cause your PC's calculator to stop counting.

When the Rubin Virus is combined with the Florida microchip, your PC will yield results to the effect that free trade deals like NAFTA were beneficial to the US economy and even that it actually created well-paying jobs in the US, in spite of declining union membership and rising income inequality. This sounds counter-intuitive, but don't be fooled. It's actually just complete and utter bullshit.

[JDPriestly]

45. Great post. Thanks. I needed that.

[99Forever]

28. It's not just the politicians spreading bullshit.

They have lots of helpers doing their dirtywork for them also.

Great post, Bonobo.

[navarth]

29. No Weasel Talk from Bernie.

Gotta give him that.

[wendylaroux]

30. He does not have to worry about what he is saying

because it is what he truly feels.

No worries about where he is speaking,what he said in another place.

It is always the same,no bullshit at all!

[Divernan]

31. If you always tell the truth, you never get caught up in lies

or reversing your positions based on the latest focus group findings. So many politicians follow the "tell the fools whatever they want to hear, as long as you get their votes." It's called the weathervane, lick-your-finger-and-hold-it-in-the-air, political philosophy. Bernie has demonstrated he follows a moral compass. Now we all know that morality is a subjective thing, and some may disagree with Bernie on various issues. But by god, moral conviction is what makes someone a leader, not a wishy-washy, flip-flopping, issue dodging, sorry excuse for a statesman. A person with the courage of his convictions - that is what is inspiring.

[wendylaroux]

32. Absolutely!!

[sabrina 1]

33. You said it. Every day it becomes more and more obvious that people were just waiting for someone to

come along and TELL THEM THE TRUTH for a change.

Those who assumed were all just too dumb to know what is good for us, didn't see it coming, even when it did. In the midterms when they lost what those same voters they so dismissed had won for them, decided to dismiss them in favor of rebuilding the party, at their local levels where they DO still have influence. And at state levels, again where they found and supported candidates THEY chose and didn't go out for the ones chosen for them. AND they won most of those elections.

The leaders pouted, and deliberately misread the loud message they were sent, blaming the voters.

After all, we are too stupid do know what is good for us, they told us. How arrogant.

You got it right, the people DO have BS meters and they've been going off for a long time and finally they are being acted upon.

Things are changing, and yes, the New Media is quick to call them out while the Old Media still thinks it has the 'power' but few trust them and rightfully so.

Great post, and you are right. Anyone who says you are not, is still not paying attention.

[Bonobo]

35. Thanks, Sabrina, I know you really, really get it.

Bottom line is that poor, regular folk DO now how to take care of their shit and what they need better than the pampered well-off.

They take care of their shit because they don't have much of it and they know BS when they hear it.

[sabrina 1]

36. Yes, exactly. And many of those people have decided to take care of their own shit and ignore

a government that does nothing for them except to demand their votes, then instantly forget them again. They have opted out of the system altogether and found ways to survive the government's policies. I know many of them.

THOSE are the people Bernie is going to bring back into the system. And there is no way that demographic is going to support any establishment candidate. They are Bernie's ace in the hole, the neglected, the dismissed, the scorned for not voting. HE will give them something to vote FOR. As FDR did in his time.

I know you get it also, Bonobo.

[Bonobo]

37. And the numbers are so vastly in favor of such people.

If there were a candidate that didn't spout the same crap, a person that actually did want to represent them, it would change the game.

The forces that be do NOT want those people anywhere near a voting booth, or rather I should say, they DO but only if they can limit their actual choices.

Like I sometimes did with my kids: You can have broccoli or asparagus. It's YOUR choice. Pick.

But we all know those choices are no choice at all.

That's why the system makes so many hurdles to jump over in order to be a candidate, the primary one being the MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF MONEY that essentially guarantee the candidate will be shackled by and indebted to the power players anyway (if they are not already one of them).

[G_j]

34. right on nt

[delrem]

39. They can f** us over for a decade or two, or three,

until we're screaming in pain, then in one fricken vote that *temporarily* goes the right way they can wipe the slate entirely clean and be portrayed as new-born heroes. I'm thinking of the recent theatre over the TPP, TPA, TAA - but it's happened before SO MANY TIMES. We get played. We get royally played, and we should know better.

To say nothing of the bullshit primary/GE process where old-school politicians with decades of history are taken as new-born infants while we wait for them to affirm their "position" on stuff that should be no-brainers for the electorate, given that history, which we're expected to forget (why are we expected to forget? Because we DO, just as we're told). E.g. Hillary Clinton now being portrayed as being "to the left on economic issues" -- for some harebrained reason -- oh yes, because some reporter/pundit declared it so.

Sanders, I think, is real. He has a good history.

[Enthusiast]

42. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

One great post!

[elleng]

43. Bernie's NOT the only Dem to say it: a Democrat who calls “bulls**t”: Martin O’Malley

Finally, a Democrat who calls “bulls**t”: Martin O’Malley drops a profane truth bomb, and Dems should know it:

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/21/finally_a_democrat_who_calls_bullst_martin_omalley_drops_a_profane_truth_bomb_on_gops_deranged_economic_policy/

[LibDemAlways]

46. Manny, my bullshit meter detected a whole lot

of insincerity spewing forth from both Hillary and Obama in 2008. I knew that no matter which one ultimately took the oath of office, we would be getting just about the equivalent of an Eisenhower era Republican. And Obama hasn't disappointed in that regard. I voted for him because I could never vote R, but I knew what to expect. Now, with Hillary, we will get more of the same -- guaranteed. Bernie, on the other hand, is definitely a no bullshit kind of guy, and I think people respect that. People are so used to mealy-mouth weasel politicians, they will be startled and, hopefully, surprised that they are being presented with an attractive alternative to the status quo.

[Babel_17]

49. I am seeing this as the case with some of the Independent voters I know (nt)