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NickB79

(19,258 posts)
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 05:19 PM Jun 2015

A example of why suggestions to pump water to California from across the Rockies are unrealistic

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/navajo-generating-station-powers-and-paralyzes-the-western-u-s/

The power generated enables a modern wonder. It drives a set of pumps 325 miles down the Colorado River that heave trillions of gallons of water out of the river and send it shooting over mountains and through canals. That water—lifted 3,000 vertical feet and carried 336 miles—has enabled the cities of Phoenix and Tucson to rapidly expand.

This achievement in moving water, however, is gained at an enormous cost. Every hour the Navajo’s generators spin, the plant spews more climate-warming gases into the atmosphere than almost any other single facility in the United States. Alone, it accounts for 29 percent of Arizona’s emissions from energy generation. The Navajo station’s infernos gobble 15 tons of coal each minute, 24 hours each day, every day.

At sunrise, a reddish-brown snake slithers across the sky as the burned coal sends out plumes of carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury, lead and other metals. That malignant plume—containing 16 million tons of carbon dioxide every year—contributes to causing the very overheated weather, drought and dwindling flows of water the plant’s power is intended to relieve.


And that's just ONE power plant, moving a tiny fraction of the water California needs, only 336 miles.
18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A example of why suggestions to pump water to California from across the Rockies are unrealistic (Original Post) NickB79 Jun 2015 OP
Anyone trained in Engineering or Physics knows that. NutmegYankee Jun 2015 #1
How about California fucking pipoman Jun 2015 #2
One of largest desaliniation plants in the US is set to be completed right here my back yard... sdfernando Jun 2015 #3
My son lived in Carlsbad for a few years while stationed pipoman Jun 2015 #11
Desalination is expensive. ellisonz Jun 2015 #5
No, you are living in vacationland taking water where it isn't pipoman Jun 2015 #9
You're funny. n/t ellisonz Jun 2015 #13
A few years ago, I read about an idea to tow an iceberg and use it for water. It sounded like a Stardust Jun 2015 #4
I saw that too... Glassunion Jun 2015 #7
Hm. I remember it in a more serious vein, but hey! The mind, she misremembers. Thank you. Stardust Jun 2015 #14
No, there were real, serious proposals that never panned out. JHB Jun 2015 #16
How about a pipeline from the Columbia...? Bigmack Jun 2015 #6
Washington Governor Declares Drought Emergency IDemo Jun 2015 #10
There is no way that a pipeline frm anywhere Snobblevitch Jun 2015 #8
A lot of people are moving out of California and coming up here to Idaho. nilesobek Jun 2015 #12
Yeah, any large-scale inter-basin transfer scheme... Spider Jerusalem Jun 2015 #15
Book/video rec: "Cadillac Desert" by Marc Reisner ... eppur_se_muova Jun 2015 #17
Would it be easier to tunnel through the rockies than go over. We could get a rail line CK_John Jun 2015 #18

NutmegYankee

(16,201 posts)
1. Anyone trained in Engineering or Physics knows that.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 05:22 PM
Jun 2015

Alas, few Americans are trained in those subjects.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
2. How about California fucking
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 05:36 PM
Jun 2015

Use the ocean....or maybe don't try to farm a desert? There isn't enough water on this side of the Rockies to water a fucking desert ffs.. Is anyone actually talking about such idiocy?

sdfernando

(4,941 posts)
3. One of largest desaliniation plants in the US is set to be completed right here my back yard...
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 05:56 PM
Jun 2015

well, metaphorically my back yard. In Carlsbad CA in north San Diego County and old power station is being converted and reconstructed as a desalinization plant. I believe it should be up and running by next year with the ability to provide most of the area's drinking water.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
11. My son lived in Carlsbad for a few years while stationed
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 08:42 PM
Jun 2015

On Pendleton. Most of the population of So.Cal. are convinced it is a tropical paradise...any marine who has spent any time on the outback at Pendleton or 29 palms knows it is all just a facade for a desert.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
9. No, you are living in vacationland taking water where it isn't
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 08:32 PM
Jun 2015

Meant to be..the substantial portion of the country are the ridiculous amount of people living in a dessert wanting it to be a tropical oasis...go spend some time at the museum of natural history in Balboa Park...there is an exhibit there showing a time lapse of Balboa Park for like 30 million years....it is a desert for 95% of the 30 million...California and Arizona will not steal water from anywhere else...it's expensive to desalinate? Move out of the fucking desert...

Stardust

(3,894 posts)
4. A few years ago, I read about an idea to tow an iceberg and use it for water. It sounded like a
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 07:17 PM
Jun 2015

good idea to me, but evidently the experts did not agree.

In the meantime, I'll continue to cut back on water usage as best I can.

JHB

(37,161 posts)
16. No, there were real, serious proposals that never panned out.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 05:54 AM
Jun 2015

Maybe it wasn't urgent enough at the time 80s?).

You did not misremember.

 

Bigmack

(8,020 posts)
6. How about a pipeline from the Columbia...?
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 07:32 PM
Jun 2015

(Bear in mind, the people in the NW would fight it tooth and nail.)

What are the engineering problems with that?

Not over the Siskiyous, of course, but nearer the coast.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
10. Washington Governor Declares Drought Emergency
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 08:37 PM
Jun 2015

The Snake and Columbia aren't available for export, sorry.

MAY 15, 2015

SEATTLE — Gov. Jay Inslee declared a statewide drought emergency for Washington on Friday, with mountain snowpack at 16 percent of average and water levels in rivers and streams drying to a trickle not seen since the 1950s. He said that residents should also be prepared for an early and active fire season that could reach higher elevations in the Cascade and Olympic mountain ranges, where many spots are already completely clear of snow.

“We’re seeing things happen at this time of year we just have never seen before,” Mr. Inslee said in a news conference.

Snobblevitch

(1,958 posts)
8. There is no way that a pipeline frm anywhere
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 08:29 PM
Jun 2015

can move enough water to substantially improve California's problem with a lack of water.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
12. A lot of people are moving out of California and coming up here to Idaho.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 08:54 PM
Jun 2015

I have 4 daughters in N. California and they have been on strict water rationing for a while now. The Russian river used to flood almost every year ten years ago.

There are a lot of landscape contractors moving to Idaho also with big money and big timing it. In Idaho, where the mega lawn is a reality, and water resources seem unlimited. That's the industry I work in as a laborer and I can tell you that enormous quantities of water are necessary to keep giant lawns green no matter how much fertilizer they use.

The idea of tapping the Snake river at Twin Falls has been floating around since the 1970s but was met with fierce resistance from the orchard farmers down there. California really doesn't have any good options except for rain and snow in the winter.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
15. Yeah, any large-scale inter-basin transfer scheme...
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 04:14 AM
Jun 2015

would require about a dozen new (probably nuclear) power plants, just to power the pumps (some of that energy can be gotten back from hydropower, but not as much as you have to put in). It's simply not feasible.

CK_John

(10,005 posts)
18. Would it be easier to tunnel through the rockies than go over. We could get a rail line
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 11:37 AM
Jun 2015

or a road at the same time as an aquifer.

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