General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRoof's murders all stem from this country's pathology of gun violence, sexism & white supremacy
He's the poster child for what's wrong with America.
He's also going to be a prime example of the fact that this country will never allow itself to question how we've come to be this way. He didn't happen in a vacuum, he's not "crazy" or a bad penny. He murdered black people because he rationalized that murdering black people was something that he was entitled to do and based on everything he's learned about America.
He was taught by witnessing unarmed black people being gunned down in our streets by police, police who are later exonerated.
He was taught by witnessing years and years of women being treated like second class citizens and thinking that second class citizenship is their proper place.
He was taught by being handed a gun by his own father, because guns are the tools by which white men achieve their due in this country.
His America is a place where white supremacy holds sway, where (white) women are property to be defended by (white) men, and done so through the use of a gun. This was the lesson that was taught to him and murdering black people in a church was how he passed his own test with flying colors.
He murdered black people in a church to make a statement, saying that armed white men rule America and should be willing to take any black life in order to maintain that rule.
The worst thing about him is the fact that this country will never question how something like this can happen. It's not a secret. We all know that white supremacy, sexism and gun violence are persistent problems, but no one really wants to do anything about them, even after one tragedy after another.
Now, I know that all of us here are appalled that these murders happened. That's the proper response of decent people. What isn't a proper response is thinking that questioning white supremacy is a condemnation of all white people, or that questioning gun violence is a condemnation on all gun ownership, or that questioning sexism is a condemnation of all men. Those good people thinking that this is about them, the guns they own, they're own maleness or they're own whiteness, are wrong if they respond as if they are being attacked. However, this is how America itself will surely respond. This country is pathologically unwilling to question itself and is resistant to even the smallest change.
So, expect more of this in the future.
Quite a few people will scream and shout, "Not me" and very little will be done, other than calling Roof "crazy" and running away from any conversation about sexism, white supremacy and gun violence. Will it always be that way? It doesn't have to be. Our nation will only change when we ALL decide to ask the right questions and work together toward the right solutions.
If we don't do this, let's not delude ourselves by not thinking that there are more Dylann Storm Roofs waiting to happen. It's only a matter of time when we all do nothing.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and you are a very good writer.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Sadly, I can't. Your words resonate Mr Scorpio and it hurts me deep down inside to not know how to change the dynamic you have described. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
BumRushDaShow
(129,229 posts)to coverup the passage of TPA.
SaranchaIsWaiting
(247 posts)omg
BumRushDaShow
(129,229 posts)where no one can get a jury to hide the whole Alex Jones-style tinfoil hat bullshit.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026861002
The shootings are called "wall to wall propaganda" and the crap was rec'd.
SaranchaIsWaiting
(247 posts)Which I am glad for.
I am saddened by the ignorance that shows.
Hekate
(90,755 posts)Kee-rist.
BumRushDaShow
(129,229 posts)who have chosen to focus on a single subject in a manner that rather than providing useful informational updates, advocacy, and critique, devolves the issue into drive-by hit pieces and literal spamming of GD with apocalyptic nonsense.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)but the one posted pointed to something worth considering from my POV but I'll have to look into debates surrounding the bill but I don't think it was preplanned in the sense to draw media attention away but once it was it does speak to their willingness to use it to their advantage and while I haven't seen a second of news coverage on this--literally almost everything the 24/7 news coverage is propaganda in the way they sell the story. Not that this was anything as much about TPP as this was more about the shooting will bring them higher ratings so covering the story was to their advantage.
BumRushDaShow
(129,229 posts)because on DU, whining about a vaporware trade pact that will have little or no impact on the black demographic due to us already being the last hired and first fired anyway, is more important than our being targeted for genocide in the U.S. A "job" is irrelevant when you are 6ft under, whether due to police brutality or white supremacy, which unfortunately is tacitly approved by too many of the majority culture by their silence and dismissal of what is happening to us perpetrated by members of their community.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Everything else I'm against and don't dismiss. Just commenting on the opportunistic nature of taking politicians using the media attention to their advantage. Who is saying FU here?
BumRushDaShow
(129,229 posts)There was a LBN right here on DU that announced the vote had already been scheduled BEFORE the shootings.
There's alot of nonsense that has been spewed on DU but this latest bullshit takes the cake.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)seriously?
BumRushDaShow
(129,229 posts)enough
(13,260 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)than it is about guns or sexism. But that's just me.
IMO he saw black people as a dangerous threat. If that sound irrational, I think it should be seen than way.
Privilege vs threat... are those the same thing or something different?
I don't have the perfect answer. I think threats usually threaten status quo which often involves privilege.
His action was prima faciae criminally deviant and regardless of external/third party encouragements he will face responsibility alone.
enough
(13,260 posts)And about women as property.
About guns, not much needs to be said. A gun is what made this event possible. Without the gun, just another day.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)This was a cut and dried racist hate crime. It's obfuscation to call it anything else.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)that's clear. Clearly motivated by race, no doubt. But while committing his racist hate crime, he also told a group of women, that he was murdering, that he was the great white defender of white women and that he was doing it, in part, to protect his women. Women are not children. So, saying our women, in that particular context, seems that the man also has sexist delusions.
kjones
(1,053 posts)There may be sexism involved, I don't know.
In the "our women" statement though, one would assume
the "our" comes from the "us vs. them" split in the perpetrator's
mind. "Us and them" being white and black. "Our" is about
"belonging," but in this case, not belonging to an individual
but a group identity.
Sure, depending on context, it does fit into the a racist/sexist bundle
of "helpless white damsels" attacked by black men (I'm thinking "Birth
of a Nation" .
The other two (guns and racism) seem a lot more relevant in the
context of this attack though. I suppose he may well have carried
out some sort of racist violence with or without access to guns
as well though.
I guess if he was whittled down to an (adjective noun) description,
I (at least) would go with "Militant racist," over "Sexist racist."
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)enough
(13,260 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)This is the kind of post that should have thousands of recs.
Omaha Steve
(99,678 posts)sheshe2
(83,833 posts)"Quite a few people will scream and shout, "Not me" and very little will be done, other than calling Roof "crazy" and running away from any conversation about sexism, white supremacy and gun violence. Will it always be that way? It doesn't have to be. Our nation will only change when we ALL decide to ask the right questions and work together toward the right solutions."
I posted some history here.
The then 29-year-old Tillman led the members of the Sweetwater Sabre Club, a.k.a. the Edgefield Redshits, against a local militia group, all black. Several African-American militia men were killed in a pitched battle with red-shirt-wearing white terrorists. After the militia surrendered, five of them were called out by name and executed. A few weeks later, when vigilantes captured a black state senator named Simon Coker, Tillman was present when two of his men executed the prisoner while he was on his knees praying.
Later, the terrorist leader Tillman explained his intentions on that fateful July 8 day: "It had been the settled purpose of the leading white men of Edgefield to seize the first opportunity that the Negroes might offer them to provoke a riot and teach the negroes a lesson; as it was generally believed that nothing but bloodshed and a good deal of it could answer the purpose of redeeming the state from Negro and carpetbag rule." In a 1909 speech at a Red Shirt reunion in Anderson, Tillman reiterated this point, noting that he believed in "terrorizing the Negroes at the first opportunity by letting them provoke trouble and then having the whites demonstrate their superiority by killing as many of them as was justifiable."
He added, "That we have good government now is due entirely to the fact that Red Shirt men of 1876 did all and dared all that was necessary to rescue South Carolina from the rule of the alien, the traitor, and the semi-barbarous negroes."
As long as a state capitol contains a monument revering a man who was a terrorist, the insurgency lives on. And we will continue to teach our children to hate. Because children will listen.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026860364
No. It does not have to be this way.
Thank you so much for your thread. Teach.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)I've had up close and personal experience with this level of racist thought and action back in the 60's. I never thought we'd see it as rampant again but here it is. This has been coming and with all the police brutality and murders recently it's pretty clear someone wants that race war.
We need to pull together and stop this, NOW!
Keep talking!
Thanks for this OP!
K&R
Solly Mack
(90,778 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)So well said.
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)Hekate
(90,755 posts)prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)They put a bullet-proof vest on him.
I don't think anything else quite illustrates how racist America is. You can be sure they didn't fear another white man shooting him. No, the police was showing their belief in the inherent violence of black people.
Black victims of crimes are scrutinized and declared "no angels" while white terrorists are protected and declared soft-spoken. It is disgusting, and we white people need to do something about it.
LeftOfWest
(482 posts)Thank you for this very important information, and it is at least disgusting.
Bullet proof vest, no hand cuffs, ugh, most likely pats on the back to this thug racist terrorist.
BumRushDaShow
(129,229 posts)that when they did a car stop on him and questioned him, they then "escorted" him to the police car without handcuffs. He was treated with kid gloves because by golly, unless you are black and pulled over for a traffic stop because it is assumed that you are an armed and dangerously savage animal, you are assumed "innocent" despite being a confirmed armed (a gun was in his car) and dangerous white murderer fitting an APB, because you are carrying out your supreme right to drive where you want and own a gun.
The host and caller had a back and forth about why he wasn't:
1.) Thrown up against the car and searched
2.) Tased because he appeared to be "a threat" and was "resisting arrest" when told to hold still while involuntarily jerking around when jolted with the taser and kicked
3.) Handcuffed after being roughly face-planted into the cement, dragged to his feet, and shoved head-first into the top of the doorway before being stuffed into the back of the police car
4.) Given a "rough ride" (or "Nickel Ride" on the way to the station
The one thing I do give credit to is the lady who spotted him, took time to tail him, and reported him to the police.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)so that when he was being brought in to the police station, he was handcuffed. However, he was not mistreated in any way. White defenders claim that it is because he surrendered, but as someone pointed out, black people aren't even given the chance to surrender before they are shot.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)Thanks to Jack Ruby, bullet-proof vests are SOP for all high-profile killers.
Imagine if some outraged citizen shot and killed Roof as he was getting out of the squad car. Conspiracy nuts would never let us hear the end of it.
Bullet-proof vests aren't some kind of "privilege" reserved for whites who kill blacks, as Jesse Matthew below can attest to.
lostnfound
(16,187 posts)It is primarily racist but it is also sexist. "You are raping our women." Where the hell does that thought arise? And yet most who died WERE women.
Women not as separate people with their own individuality. Lumped together as objects to be killed or objects to be owned, but not as whole people unto themselves.
In his crazy mind he thought he was angry at black men for "raping our women" but the black women victims were just incidental, trivial victims to him.
eridani
(51,907 posts)http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right
What follows is a detailed listing of major terrorist plots and racist rampages that have emerged from the American radical right in the years since Oklahoma City. These have included plans to bomb government buildings, banks, refineries, utilities, clinics, synagogues, mosques, memorials and bridges; to assassinate police officers, judges, politicians, civil rights figures and others; to rob banks, armored cars and other criminals; and to amass illegal machine guns, missiles, explosives and biological and chemical weapons. [Each of these plots aimed to make changes in America through the use of political violence.] Most contemplated the deaths of large numbers of people in one case, as many as 30,000, or 10 times the number murdered on Sept. 11, 2001.
valerief
(53,235 posts)to wipe oneself in the toilet. Or using them to wrap your trash in. Cuz that's all they're good for.
onecaliberal
(32,878 posts)stage left
(2,964 posts)There are some saying Roof is crazy. Lindsey Graham said Roof is twisted. Roof is a reflection of the society he was raised in, a society that is racist, sexist, and in love with violence. It's time we looked in that mirror.
raccoon
(31,112 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)The whole right wing militias get some very false information leading to some very bizarre beliefs which they impassioned believe in. For example, I was searching for "Giving rights to terrorists" to research more on how the right and they type of framing they use. First page "Obama gives 2nd Amendment Rights to terrorists" I know somebody out there read that and believes it.
Though there is probably some truth to what you say and also worth discussing. Certainly, I'd add the violence all-around in America and outside.
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484
Gothmog
(145,427 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)If you can't have power via wealth, you can always have power via a gun. Guns are the tools of bullies.
raccoon
(31,112 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Thank you a million times for sharing your experience and insight.
I want healing and growth. Growth takes consciousness and effort. We seem to have neither in this country, for a large group of Americans.
What you've said rings so true to me.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)They both stated that "starting a race war" was in their motivations. McVeigh gave new life to the Turner Diaries, the book he said gave him inspiration.
Ironic - although McVeigh did his worst damage with the bombs, it was his .45 on the seat next to him that got his ass arrested down the road.
Plenty of these racist murderers in the past, and, you are correct, more in the future.
Too bad they aren't the real problem. The real problem are the people who got too comfortable, cared more about [link:
Not a new problem, and the solution still rests with the same folks.
P.S. - It may be disturbing to those who were hoping the old racists would soon die off and the world will be a better place that this kid was 21.
Thus, and here is some bad news, we can't just sit on our ass and wait for racism to die off. We will never breed our way out of this. Have to fix the adults first.
Paladin
(28,267 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)one tweak, if permitted:
He murdered black people in a church to make a statement, saying that EVEN GOD IS IN APPROVAL THAT armed white men rule America and should be willing to take any black life in order to maintain that rule.
blm
(113,078 posts).
gopiscrap
(23,762 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)In some ways I hope that they find out that he has been on some kind of a drug, street or prescribed that might explain his actions. I hope its not systematic of our culture.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)very little has always been done by those who can truly make difference because there is no need. Racism really does not affect the privileged class except when they have to worry about losing some of that privilege economically or in physical loss, like a building. Or they start fearing that they could be a target of violence because of their privileged status in a world of pain, poverty, inequality both socially and racially. Then they throw a few crumbs out that are soon taken away again and the whole process starts all over again. Quite predictable really, in my experience in this country. There are many more dylann roofs out there just trying to get their nerve up to make their statement of white male supremacy.
Great post.