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MineralMan

(146,320 posts)
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:26 PM Jun 2015

Subtle Racism is Everywhere, as I Learned Today

I got an example of that today. I took my car into the dealership for an oil change this morning. After dropping it off with the service manager, I went into the customer waiting room to pass the time until it was finished. I had my Kindle Fire, so I hooked up to the free wi-fi and logged back into DU, where I continued replying in one of my threads about the recent mass shooting in South Carolina.

As usual, people were seated in the waiting room in alternate seats, with everyone leaving one empty seat between them and the person next to them. We do that here in Minnesota, as in most of the country. As long as there's room, we avoid sitting shoulder to shoulder with others. It's an odd American thing, I guess. I had taken a seat at the end of one line of seats, with a space between me and the next person on one side. I don't want people to feel uncomfortable, either.

After I'd been there for about ten minutes, another customer came into the waiting room. This customer was a 30-something black man, the only non-Caucasian in the room. There were no more opportunities for empty seats between people. So, the new arrival took a seat between two other men in the room.

Each of those men immediately got up and moved to sit between other people in the waiting room. One of them sat in the seat next to mine. It's not a large waiting room. They moved to avoid sitting shoulder to shoulder with a black person, but sat down shoulder to shoulder with two others in the waiting room. Instead of having just one person sitting immediately next to them, they chose to have one on each side. The only person left in the room with an empty seat on both sides of himself was this lone black man.

Subtle racism, unless you are the black man who came into the waiting room. Very unsubtle racism from his point of view. Subtle ugliness is still ugly.

76 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Subtle Racism is Everywhere, as I Learned Today (Original Post) MineralMan Jun 2015 OP
Next time JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #1
Well, in some ways, I was envious of him. MineralMan Jun 2015 #3
It was an "obvious" move; do you not think the two white men closeupready Jun 2015 #14
Of course their move was obvious. MineralMan Jun 2015 #15
So then why did you refuse to respond to it? closeupready Jun 2015 #16
Because I was uncertain how it would MineralMan Jun 2015 #17
you made the right choice padfun Jun 2015 #28
I was torn. I decided to simply continue what I was doing. MineralMan Jun 2015 #35
But you can jump in here to lecture MM about his "inaction". MindPilot Jun 2015 #24
He invited DU to comment on his personal anecdote. closeupready Jun 2015 #27
Maybe he didn't want some white mf sitting next to him. You white folks always think you need to jtuck004 Jun 2015 #37
How do you know that poster is white? Rex Jun 2015 #39
"This customer was a 30-something black man, the only non-Caucasian in the room." nt alphafemale Jun 2015 #41
So now the poster replied to, is the person that was in the waiting room in the OPs story? Rex Jun 2015 #42
That was a quote from the OP. alphafemale Jun 2015 #62
Because for him to argue that a black man should get up and go sit next to another when jtuck004 Jun 2015 #44
Wait, who is the second black man in the waiting room? The OP? Rex Jun 2015 #45
Yes. Along with (not assuming) that reading anything else you write is a waste of time. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2015 #47
It is no big deal really, you just got caught assuming someone elses race and then doubled down Rex Jun 2015 #50
Maybe silent is a good word for it. Subtle may be too subtle for some. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #25
I understand JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #38
I would be giving them such looks of disgust there'd be no doubt why. bettyellen Jun 2015 #54
That's exactly what I'll do BainsBane Jun 2015 #6
Agreed. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #11
True.... daleanime Jun 2015 #2
just a sign heaven05 Jun 2015 #4
Doesn't sound very subtle to me. nt BainsBane Jun 2015 #5
I guess not. MineralMan Jun 2015 #7
agreed n/t fishwax Jun 2015 #76
Once in Vegas I noticed that the older white people will check their wallet... tridim Jun 2015 #8
I've seen that too, ladies clutching their purses tight. Men putting their hands over their wallets. Rex Jun 2015 #21
Cooties, only worse. lpbk2713 Jun 2015 #9
The worst acts of subtle racism are by people who "mean well" or are trying to give a compliment YoungDemCA Jun 2015 #10
You mean like this? former9thward Jun 2015 #31
Precisely (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2015 #72
I disagree with this point here. Calista241 Jun 2015 #71
Did you get up and take one of the vacated seats? closeupready Jun 2015 #12
Subtle? You mean like this? Luminous Animal Jun 2015 #13
Oh dear! Is that MM calling a group of black women caricatures? Rex Jun 2015 #26
... SixString Jun 2015 #48
Obama winning was stressful and required antacid. pintobean Jun 2015 #56
WTF Autumn Jun 2015 #67
And there you have a perfect example of why I have never Puglover Jun 2015 #69
Yeah I'm not buying it either. Autumn Jun 2015 #70
After you read it play this Cheese Sandwich Jun 2015 #75
That just plain sucks. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #18
Yes. That's what I thought. MineralMan Jun 2015 #19
I would be the same. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #22
Oh wow. And it didn't happen cwydro Jun 2015 #20
No, it didn't. pintobean Jun 2015 #33
We need to start a silent movement in which we who are white change the patterns like JDPriestly Jun 2015 #23
+1 daleanime Jun 2015 #29
I live in a very diverse neighborhood in St. Paul. MineralMan Jun 2015 #32
in which of the southern states did this occur? DrDan Jun 2015 #30
See my profile. MineralMan Jun 2015 #34
I actually knew that - just reacting to all the south-bashing today DrDan Jun 2015 #40
Not so subtle. Smarmie Doofus Jun 2015 #36
Yeah, not subtle at all. n/t Cal Carpenter Jun 2015 #43
That makes me feel sad. DawgHouse Jun 2015 #46
Yes. Sad. MineralMan Jun 2015 #49
Don't feel bad. bravenak Jun 2015 #51
there was not subtlety there at all Kali Jun 2015 #52
Some women at my curves place call Asians oriental.....and it just burned my ears......eom a kennedy Jun 2015 #53
Why not inform them of accepted nomanclature? bettyellen Jun 2015 #55
Gaaah JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #57
I've seen people ask to be moved to another table because a black family is seated next to them. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #58
I'm "white," and I don't think that was subtle. SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #59
Swimming while black-unsubtle but still annoying curious_citizen Jun 2015 #60
A few weeks mercuryblues Jun 2015 #61
+1 I concur rock Jun 2015 #63
Yes it is. SixString Jun 2015 #64
Kick. pintobean Jun 2015 #65
He didn't even give it the usual self-rec. SixString Jun 2015 #66
not so subtle Liberal_in_LA Jun 2015 #68
Racism like this should be called out whenever it is witnessed, Nye Bevan Jun 2015 #73
Agree. +1 Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2015 #74

MineralMan

(146,320 posts)
3. Well, in some ways, I was envious of him.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:31 PM
Jun 2015

He had an empty seat on both sides. I sat on the end of a row, to avoid having people on both sides of me. I doubt if moving over to sit next to him would have helped much, really. It would have been sort of an obvious move, that might have been uncomfortable to him. I considered it, though. I decided to remain in the seat I chose originally. I went back to my Kindle.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
14. It was an "obvious" move; do you not think the two white men
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:50 PM
Jun 2015

getting up and changing seats was "obvious"?

MineralMan

(146,320 posts)
15. Of course their move was obvious.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:55 PM
Jun 2015

What I mean by "subtle" is that nobody called anyone a name or spoke an insult. I've also observed that kind of insulting racism. That wasn't the case today.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
16. So then why did you refuse to respond to it?
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 04:00 PM
Jun 2015

If you noticed, everyone else in that room noticed. Yet nobody responded.

People talk about Kitty Genovese (or the rise of the Third Reich to use an extreme example), that 'evil triumphed because good men did nothing'.

You can bring the issue here and tut-tut, but when you had the power to do something, you did nothing.

MineralMan

(146,320 posts)
17. Because I was uncertain how it would
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:14 PM
Jun 2015

Be received. I may have made the wrong choice. I often make the wrong choice.

padfun

(1,787 posts)
28. you made the right choice
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:35 PM
Jun 2015

If you went to sit by him, it would have made him uncomfortable. I've had people move after I sit by them and I then enjoy my new found room.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
24. But you can jump in here to lecture MM about his "inaction".
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:29 PM
Jun 2015

MM no doubt thought through the situation and examined several possible outcomes, ultimately avoiding what he at the time considered to be a negative one; making the man feel even worse than he already probably did.

You weren't there; please don't second guess the person who was. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
37. Maybe he didn't want some white mf sitting next to him. You white folks always think you need to
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:45 PM
Jun 2015

come runnin'



He might be better off if you just stay the fuck away.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
62. That was a quote from the OP.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 07:27 PM
Jun 2015

If the person were not white would the line not have been...?

"He and I were the only non-Caucasians in the room.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
44. Because for him to argue that a black man should get up and go sit next to another when
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 06:02 PM
Jun 2015

two white men move away wouldn't make a hell of a lot of sense.

I know the knee-jerk thing here is to respond with some skepticism to everything, but it would behoove you to add some thought to that, I think.

This just makes you sound like your cue ball is a bit out of round.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
45. Wait, who is the second black man in the waiting room? The OP?
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 06:04 PM
Jun 2015

Knee jerking? Amazing now you've assumed the race of two people in this thread...based on what again? Knee jerking? Irony?

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
47. Yes. Along with (not assuming) that reading anything else you write is a waste of time. n/t
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 06:08 PM
Jun 2015
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
50. It is no big deal really, you just got caught assuming someone elses race and then doubled down
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 06:10 PM
Jun 2015

on another persons race. I just pointed out the obvious, maybe next time you will think before you type such things. Or not, probably not is more likely.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
25. Maybe silent is a good word for it. Subtle may be too subtle for some.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:30 PM
Jun 2015

Couldn't resist the -- wasn't very funny, but -- joke.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
4. just a sign
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:38 PM
Jun 2015

of good old american apple pie, white picket fence and racism that was not subtle at all. America has always squandered it's assets and this is an example on one effort to squander good will. I'm afraid, it is NEVER going to change. Too many minds and attitudes poisoned by the RW hate machine and media. A huge number of white people just can't accept black people and it got exponentially worse when a POC became our POTUS. No doubt. It's like the racist doubled down on their hate to make sure they let POC know, nothing has changed, "we still hate you and will murder you", "stay in your place and have no pride at Barack Obama's victory". Well they failed miserably in that last part. and they are just engendering more revulsion because of the first part, especially from a fight back veteran like myself.

No one called me n***** in Vietnam, to my face at least...

tridim

(45,358 posts)
8. Once in Vegas I noticed that the older white people will check their wallet...
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:45 PM
Jun 2015

Whenever a black man approaches from the other direction.

I kept watching and it kept happening over and over. Subtle racism based on irrational fear.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
21. I've seen that too, ladies clutching their purses tight. Men putting their hands over their wallets.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:23 PM
Jun 2015

Just at the sight of a black man. Racism ingrained at that level is sad to behold.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
10. The worst acts of subtle racism are by people who "mean well" or are trying to give a compliment
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:48 PM
Jun 2015

Example: "President Obama is so articulate."

What's often (but not always) unstated is the end of the sentence: "...for a black man."

former9thward

(32,046 posts)
31. You mean like this?
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:39 PM
Jun 2015
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
71. I disagree with this point here.
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 09:31 AM
Jun 2015

Obama is particularly articulate by any comparison. He's orders of magnitude better than either of the Bush Presidents, and he's even better than Bill ever was.

Reagan knew how to deliver a line, but in several of his speeches I've heard, he just droned on and on for much of the speech.

JFK, Nixon, Carter, Ford... None of them hold a candle to Obama's ability to give a speech and communicate his message.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
12. Did you get up and take one of the vacated seats?
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:49 PM
Jun 2015

That would have made your point well, taking the burden off the black man and, potentially, onto yourself.

On the subway here, I don't hesitate for even a single second to move around as the crowd changes. I deserve to ride in comfort, and if people are slobbering over each other next to me, then let someone else enjoy the show.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
26. Oh dear! Is that MM calling a group of black women caricatures?
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:33 PM
Jun 2015

Why yes it is! My my what an interesting post...you think he will reply to you? You think he will elaborate on what he meant by caricatures?

No doubt he was just misunderstood in 2008 and not actually defending voter fraud.

Mmhmm...

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
56. Obama winning was stressful and required antacid.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 06:28 PM
Jun 2015


An excerpt from your link:

If you want to know why Obama won, they are your answer. In Minnesota, they didn't even need to, but they did. Now, repeat that in every precinct in this country and the reason Obama won is clear. It's why he took Virginia, and North Carolina, and Indiana, and Pennsylvania. and Ohio, and Florida, too. It's simple. People voted for him...many of them who had never voted in any election in this country. Obama got them to the polls.

I'll tell you another story from my community. I went to the local Walgreens to pick up some antacids, since this has all been very stressful and I needed them. I took them to the counter. The woman running the cash register was ranting on to another customer about the election and allowed as how the country was going to hell in a handbasket. The customer appeared to agree with her. He asked her what part of town she voted in.

"Oh, I didn't vote. I hate politicians."

She did not vote. The three black women who looked like caricatures voted. Thus, we have Obama as the next President.

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
69. And there you have a perfect example of why I have never
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 08:39 AM
Jun 2015

taken on of the OP's tomes seriously.

Yeah there is redemption. I just don't buy it here.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
23. We need to start a silent movement in which we who are white change the patterns like
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:28 PM
Jun 2015

the one you describe that mean racism.

Sit next to a person of a different race. (Here in California, there are people from all races.)

Greet people on the street regardless of race.

At meetings, sit with people of other races.

This is not a superficial or trivial thing. Especially for our older generation, we need to make sure we do not live in enclaves of our own race. Racism thrives when people of different races separate themselves from each other.

I live in a mixed neighborhood. We should all check our neighborhoods and schools and make sure that we are not participating in passive racism.

MineralMan

(146,320 posts)
32. I live in a very diverse neighborhood in St. Paul.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:39 PM
Jun 2015

Since my wife and I walk our dogs twice a day, we get to meet all of our neighbors. That and my GOTV canvassing has let me meet almost everyone in my precinct in the past ten years. It's great.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
40. I actually knew that - just reacting to all the south-bashing today
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:50 PM
Jun 2015

not from you, of course . . . but no lack of it elsewhere.

Just another form of bigotry imo.

 

Smarmie Doofus

(14,498 posts)
36. Not so subtle.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 05:42 PM
Jun 2015

Pretty obvious in fact.

And... from a strictly social/ethical/moral pov...... pretty trashy.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
51. Don't feel bad.
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 06:16 PM
Jun 2015

I was driving my kids home yesterday and an old white dude with and Obama sticker called me a nigg**. I stopped the car and my husband (he didn't see my husband) yelled 'what the fuck you say in front of my kids?' The guy got scared and almost hit the guy in front if him, cause trying to peel out to get away fast.
That's why when people say they voted for Obama, they're not racist, I do not take their words as fact.
Stuff like this happens so much, we learn to deal with it. I have not explained to my kids what they guy was saying.

Kali

(55,016 posts)
52. there was not subtlety there at all
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 06:22 PM
Jun 2015

that was about as in-your-face as calling him names. I think I might have said something out loud. holy shit!

JustAnotherGen

(31,834 posts)
57. Gaaah
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 06:40 PM
Jun 2015

Even my great grandmother - born in 1904 gave that up in the 80's! She went from the c word to oriental to Asian in her 90 some odd years on this earth. She gave up colored in the 1950's.

curious_citizen

(9 posts)
60. Swimming while black-unsubtle but still annoying
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 07:08 PM
Jun 2015

Subtle is totally not picked up sometimes as in an incident with me. I was in NOLA with my mom and sister. I was swimming in the hotel pool. I would swim for a while get out have a drink.talk, and then get back in. My sister and mom noticed that every time I got in the folks (white) would get out. I didn't pick it up so I decided to test the theory and sure enough they got out after I got in every time. So I sat out for a while and drank some more while they got into a game with a beach ball. I jumped in and swam some laps just to break up the game. Then I got the brilliant idea that rather than go to the room to release the fluid from the drinking I would share my liquid cooties with them. So I took a long swim around the pool and let them enjoy the fruits of the subtle racism/avoidance of me. I am black by the way but I really wasn't initially giving those folks a bit of thought. Then I got pissed so I pissed on them. Not right but at the time worked for me.

mercuryblues

(14,537 posts)
61. A few weeks
Fri Jun 19, 2015, 07:13 PM
Jun 2015

ago my sister and I went to a new Jamaican restaurant for some wings and beer. She remarked on the way home how she felt being with us being the only 2 white people in there. I looked at her and said, now you know how a black person feels in the same circumstances. Oh she says, I never thought of that.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
73. Racism like this should be called out whenever it is witnessed,
Sat Jun 20, 2015, 11:45 AM
Jun 2015

except, of course, when you perceive a threat to your personal safety.

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