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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 04:59 AM Jun 2015

Hillary Clinton: Good for White Feminism, Bad for Racial Justice

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2015/04/12/hillary-clinton-good-for-white-feminism/
Today in New York City, Hillary Rodham Clinton announced that she is officially a candidate for the 2016 presidential campaign. While many people are excited about the prospect of the first woman president, I think that a Hillary Clinton presidency will be another in a long series of triumphs for white, corporate feminism and defeats for racial justice.

Here’s a very incomplete, yet still telling, run-down on Clinton’s résumé to date:

*Despite trumpeting her work on behalf of “mothers and children,” she and her husband worked to reduce federal assistance to women and children living in poverty. In her book, Living History, Clinton touts her role: “By the time Bill and I left the White House, welfare rolls had dropped 60 percent.” This 60% drop was not due to a 60% decrease in poverty. Instead, it was a reduction in federal benefits to those living in poverty, many of them working poor, like those employed at Wal-Mart.

*Clinton sat on the board of Wal-Mart between 1986 and 1992, where she says she learned a lot from Sam Walton, and she remained silent while the corporation fought the unionization of its workers.

*In Michelle Alexander’s book, The New Jim Crow, she notes that it was Hillary Clinton who lobbied Congress to expand the drug war and mass incarceration in ways that we continue to live with today, and that have a significantly more harmful impact on black and brown people than white people. According to The Drug Policy Alliance, people of color are much more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, convicted, harshly sentenced and saddled with a lifelong criminal record due to being unfairly targeted for drug law violations. Even though white people and people of color use drugs at about the same rates, it is black and brown people’s bodies that continue to fuel the machine of mass incarceration.

*As Secretary of State, Clinton left a legacy that included both a hawkish inclination to recommend the use of military force coupled with “turning the state department into a machine for promoting U.S. business.” This does not bode well for black and brown people in other parts of the world, since the US is not likely to attack Western Europe under a (second) Clinton presidency, but some region of the world with people who do not have light-colored skin tones.
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Hillary Clinton: Good for White Feminism, Bad for Racial Justice (Original Post) Bonobo Jun 2015 OP
All the candidates records on stand for good, none of them have taken money from white supremacist uponit7771 Jun 2015 #1
As POTUS Obama pointed out recently... Bonobo Jun 2015 #2
Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton are two different people why conflate the two? uponit7771 Jun 2015 #3
I reject the idea that Hillary takes credit for the good accomplishments Bonobo Jun 2015 #4
I reject the strawman that she takes credit for the good accomplishments, when has she done that? ti uponit7771 Jun 2015 #22
She touts her role as First Lady as part of her experience. Exilednight Jun 2015 #27
That's good, doesn't mean she was Bill Clinton as the article intimates in its conflation of the uponit7771 Jun 2015 #29
Bill's economic "success" is part of the reason Exilednight Jun 2015 #37
...riiiiight, Bill gave Ol George Bush a mess... Clinton raising taxes on the rich had nothing to... uponit7771 Jun 2015 #41
Two for the price of one, ready on day one is her motto. Exilednight Jun 2015 #47
WaPo from 2007: Hillary Clinton Embraces Her Husband's Legacy RufusTFirefly Jun 2015 #5
...and that still doesn't mean they're the same being. This line of thinking is crazy, the article.. uponit7771 Jun 2015 #23
Let's call this line of thinking what it is: sexism. okasha Jun 2015 #114
For one thing, they sold themselves that way. For another, they are NOT that different. For a third, merrily Jun 2015 #9
Any intimations they're the person is irrational at best. Conflating one with another as if they're uponit7771 Jun 2015 #24
The post to which I linked you does not say they are the same person. merrily Jun 2015 #25
Then who gives a damn, I agree with 90% of what Clinton did too and I'm not married to the uponit7771 Jun 2015 #26
Boy, you sure did a180. merrily Jun 2015 #28
This is false, Clinton was a damn good liberal president and Hillary and Bill are a team (hopefully) uponit7771 Jun 2015 #31
AGAIN, I never said they were the same person. Please stop repeating hyperbolic talking points that merrily Jun 2015 #36
Strawman, no one said you did. The article conflates the two beings and so do itimations uponit7771 Jun 2015 #43
Yet, you keep posting that comment to me, not to the OP. I did not write or post the article. merrily Jun 2015 #46
Merrily,that's an awesomely researched & powerful OP! Divernan Jun 2015 #30
Wow, I didn't know you were all those things. Thanks for such kind words, but it didn't take much merrily Jun 2015 #34
Yes, they are and it was well known that she was one of his most influential advisers. This she can jwirr Jun 2015 #110
She used race against Obama in 2008 again and again. merrily Jun 2015 #7
I would post the fake accent video, but I just ate chili... nt Bonobo Jun 2015 #8
I'll do it for you: marble falls Jun 2015 #18
you seem desperate! stonecutter357 Jun 2015 #6
To be fair, when you lift up women, you lift up all women. merrily Jun 2015 #10
To some extent gollygee Jun 2015 #11
I agree. It's to an extent. But, when you fight for equal pay for women and control of women's merrily Jun 2015 #14
I agree that some women's issues are about all women gollygee Jun 2015 #15
I didn't say it was an unfair criticism. My post is in the context of this thread, again, merrily Jun 2015 #16
After reading this and your thread in AA gollygee Jun 2015 #12
What coalition of women? Exilednight Jun 2015 #32
You must have reading comprehension issues gollygee Jun 2015 #40
Not at all. You said "the coalition many", did you not? Exilednight Jun 2015 #44
I said "many women and many people of color" gollygee Jun 2015 #58
Again, what coalition? Please show me these Exilednight Jun 2015 #66
You're playing games with the defintion of "coalition" gollygee Jun 2015 #69
Pretending that this imaginary coalition for Hillary Exilednight Jun 2015 #70
I don't care if it helps her as I'm not voting for her gollygee Jun 2015 #112
there's been an informal one here for years, and it seems to piss off the op bettyellen Jun 2015 #72
You can say it exists all you want, but I'm not seeing it. Exilednight Jun 2015 #75
You can downplay my life's experiences here- bettyellen Jun 2015 #85
And no one has answered my coalition question. Exilednight Jun 2015 #111
I get that none of what I said is real- or matters much to you. bettyellen Jun 2015 #113
It's called The Democratic Party. lovemydog Jun 2015 #119
That's not a coalition. The Rainbow Exilednight Jun 2015 #122
What is your final answer? lovemydog Jun 2015 #123
I keep asking and no one has the answer to this fictitious coalition. Exilednight Jun 2015 #124
Women are over 50% of the population. I would not set the standard of speaking with 1 voice. merrily Jun 2015 #45
Speaking with one voice is the definition of a coalition. Exilednight Jun 2015 #48
Bingo ... Trying to drive a wedge between women and PoC. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #35
Sowing division and distrust is a game he tried in the AA group. bettyellen Jun 2015 #64
I make a practice of following the very few ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #98
Indeed. n/t JTFrog Jun 2015 #77
And yet, according to her supporters... shaayecanaan Jun 2015 #13
that's not only her supporters. It's polls. merrily Jun 2015 #17
And which of the other candidates would be better for black feminism? JaneyVee Jun 2015 #19
I know which one would be better for racial justice. Bonobo Jun 2015 #20
Which Democratic candidate would be bad for African American feminism? merrily Jun 2015 #39
Take it to Red State dot com,,,,,geez Cryptoad Jun 2015 #21
Intersting article and interesting website ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #33
OP has a long history of "concern" for feminists. sufrommich Jun 2015 #38
The sincerity of his concern drips like melted ice cream... LanternWaste Jun 2015 #53
Hahahahahaha Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #68
Speaking of hahaha...."Socialist"...for Hillary? Romulox Jun 2015 #73
Letting the USSC fall to conservatives will Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #74
We haven't had primaries, yet, remember? You're supporting Hillary over Bernie while you still have Romulox Jun 2015 #76
And? Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #78
We all have a right to "evolve". But you support the corporate candidate over the more progressive Romulox Jun 2015 #79
Your opinion. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #80
Reality. You support the $2.5 *BILLION* candidate. Over the socialist. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #81
Yeah, I'd like my candidate to win. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #83
There are no atheists in a foxhole, I guess. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #84
Great, glad we got that cleared up for you. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #88
You're a regular revolutionary for the status quo. Romulox Jun 2015 #90
When the USSC strips collective bargaining Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #92
Supporting Wall Street's candidate (while we still have a choice!) doesn't help that. Romulox Jun 2015 #93
Yeah, seriously. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #94
Have the last word, if you like. Just disappointed to see another not walk the talk. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #95
I know who walks the talk around here. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #97
As a Trekkie, I'm still laughing at this. Beacool Jun 2015 #115
Her actions over many years were kind of consistent with each other. To me, they are far merrily Jun 2015 #42
Funny ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #51
And I responded to your post. Funny, rather than address what I said about Hillary, you attack the merrily Jun 2015 #52
But it's ok for you to refer to Hillary's supporters as a single entity? JTFrog Jun 2015 #82
Actually, I don't do that anywhere near in every post. That's false. merrily Jun 2015 #87
Oh there you go again, doing to others as you hate done to yourself. JTFrog Jun 2015 #89
Try again. My Reply 42 had relevance to the thread topic. merrily Jun 2015 #91
Good thing about discussion boards.... JTFrog Jun 2015 #96
There was an on topic comment in that post. Not so any post since. merrily Jun 2015 #103
You are hilarious. n/t JTFrog Jun 2015 #104
Come to think of it JTFrog, I cannot think of a single post of yours to me that was about any topic merrily Jun 2015 #99
I will post however the fuck I want. JTFrog Jun 2015 #102
Sorry, I ten to omit the sarcasm emote when I think any reasonable reader could figure it out. merrily Jun 2015 #105
Oh, I've figured it out just fine. n/t JTFrog Jun 2015 #106
No doubt the irrational mind allows a handful of examples to act as the standard. LanternWaste Jun 2015 #55
Neither irrational nor biased. There is no reason on earth that I would have started out merrily Jun 2015 #57
Easy there... Adrahil Jun 2015 #60
The broad brush of Bernie's supporters was OK with you, though? merrily Jun 2015 #61
Nope, I criticize that too, though there are plenty of others... Adrahil Jun 2015 #62
So, your response to my pointing out YOUR highly selective double standard is condescendingly merrily Jun 2015 #63
And we all know that people who care about economic justice are racists (nt) shaayecanaan Jun 2015 #117
More bullsh!t from the peanut gallery. No one has said that. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #118
Here. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #49
... DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #50
+1...nt SidDithers Jun 2015 #54
... DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #56
... SidDithers Jun 2015 #59
A very interesting article. Autumn Jun 2015 #65
. Dr Hobbitstein Jun 2015 #67
Actually, Hillary style triangulation/corporatism is horrible for women and children. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #71
Yes. Puts increasing numbers in poverty... HooptieWagon Jun 2015 #101
These posts are getting more and more ridiculous...nt joeybee12 Jun 2015 #86
Haiti. n/t L0oniX Jun 2015 #100
Benghazi !!! n/t obnoxiousdrunk Jun 2015 #107
Yes, Hillary is a strong advocate on women's issues, all over the world and I am very happy someone Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #108
Well I'm glad to see you finally care about feminism ismnotwasm Jun 2015 #109
Well, this is what he thinks of Obama. Beacool Jun 2015 #116
Yes, and? nt Bonobo Jun 2015 #120
Read "Women, Race and Class" by Angela Davis McCamy Taylor Jun 2015 #121

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
1. All the candidates records on stand for good, none of them have taken money from white supremacist
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 05:16 AM
Jun 2015

... groups like the GOP has.

There's no way any progressive worth their salt are going to take seriously that any of the candidates have a GOP size issue with POC...

There are people who look like they have a Tin ear towards issues people of color face but that's not Hillary

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
2. As POTUS Obama pointed out recently...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 05:22 AM
Jun 2015

Simply having a receptive ear, not saying the "N" word and spouting sensitivity to the issues of people of color does not make up for enacting policies that are deleterious to the very people that one purports to be serving.

That is the kind way of saying "Money talks, bullshit walks".

If there were not more black people in prison as a result of the Drug War imposed by the Clintons (Yeah, I know it was Bill, I also know that Hillary was not a stay at home cookie-making mom and likes to boast of her strong influence.), more dead brown people (in the millions) as the result of war and embargoes, then I might be inclined to just leave it at "Yup, she's real nice to black folk!"

That isn't the case though. Policies matter.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
4. I reject the idea that Hillary takes credit for the good accomplishments
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 05:55 AM
Jun 2015

but sneaks out of the bad ones.

A strong woman like her would surely make it clear how opposed she is to her husband's policies if that was how she felt, no?

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
22. I reject the strawman that she takes credit for the good accomplishments, when has she done that? ti
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:45 AM
Jun 2015

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
27. She touts her role as First Lady as part of her experience.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:01 AM
Jun 2015

She argued in 2008 that she told Bill NAFTA was a bad idea, then switched positions and suddenly she was for it, and in 2008 she had yet another epiphany and quickly turned against it.

IN her own words, “By the time Bill and I left the White House, welfare rolls had dropped 60 percent.”

Sounds like she's taking credit to me.

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
29. That's good, doesn't mean she was Bill Clinton as the article intimates in its conflation of the
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:07 AM
Jun 2015

... two beings.

She's her own person and of course I'd tout the good things

Clinton was a damn good presidents as have all liberal presidents I know of in the last century have been.

I pray she doesn't go the way of the Gore campaign and distance herself away from the good her husband and Obama have done...

That's stupid...

She should be running next to success which is what the last two democratic presidents economically have been for the most part

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
37. Bill's economic "success" is part of the reason
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:17 AM
Jun 2015

We are in the economic mess we are in today. He rode a bubble that burst beneath him just as he was getting ready to leave office.

Everyone complains of Bush's economic failures, but I truly believe that Bill would have pushed the housing bubble too.

She should be running next to success which is what the last two democratic presidents economically have been for the most part


Is she running as her own person and on her own achievements, or running next to Bill's success? You can't have it both ways.

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
41. ...riiiiight, Bill gave Ol George Bush a mess... Clinton raising taxes on the rich had nothing to...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:26 AM
Jun 2015

... do with the deficit changing and a stronger dollar

sigh...

...and now Clinton ecomically is worse that Bush or on par!?!?!?

This is not redstate.com

There is no "both ways" she can be her own person while touting the success of people who think like her

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
5. WaPo from 2007: Hillary Clinton Embraces Her Husband's Legacy
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 06:23 AM
Jun 2015

Maybe you should ask her

Hillary Clinton Embraces Her Husband's Legacy

CONCORD, N.H., Dec. 21 -- After months of discussion within her campaign over how heavily she should draw on her husband's legacy, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is closing out her Iowa and New Hampshire campaigns in a tight embrace of Bill Clinton's record, helping fuel a debate about the 1990s with Sen. Barack Obama that she thinks she can win.

...

Both Clintons are making the case that theirs was a co-presidency -- an echo of Bill Clinton's controversial statement during the 1992 campaign that voters would get "two for the price of one" if they elected him. At times, the former president has seemed to cast the current race as a referendum on his administration.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/21/AR2007122102588.html

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
23. ...and that still doesn't mean they're the same being. This line of thinking is crazy, the article..
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:45 AM
Jun 2015

...conflates two people and intimates they're of the same mind which is stupid.

Hillary Clinton can make policy without Bill Clinton... who, btw... like all liberal presidents, was a damn good president

okasha

(11,573 posts)
114. Let's call this line of thinking what it is: sexism.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:57 PM
Jun 2015

A wife has no existence apart from her husband. If he thought X, clearly she thinks X, too.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
9. For one thing, they sold themselves that way. For another, they are NOT that different. For a third,
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 06:34 AM
Jun 2015

she's approved of his Presidency and many of his individual policies. For a fourth, they've worked as a team. See also,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778412

This whole notion that they are entirely different is a fairy tale.

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
24. Any intimations they're the person is irrational at best. Conflating one with another as if they're
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:48 AM
Jun 2015

... a damn hive mind is laughable and Clinton was a damn good president as most liberal presidents are and had his warts as most people do.

Hopefully she'll do 90% of what her husband did as a liberal president while changing a thing or two to make things better.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
25. The post to which I linked you does not say they are the same person.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:52 AM
Jun 2015

It's a lot better reasoned and better supported than your conclusory claims that they're very different, though. And nothing in that post was irrational.


They sold themselves as a team, as getting two for one. They are still sometimes sold that way. And, since repeating the same claim seems to be the order of the day, she also endorsed a lot of his policies, like NAFTA. Sorry they don't get to be very different only when it's convenient and "two for the price of one" when that's more convenient.

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
26. Then who gives a damn, I agree with 90% of what Clinton did too and I'm not married to the
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:01 AM
Jun 2015

... guy.

Stupid article, Clinton being a damn good president I pray that she does do some things that Bill did and take out the bad learning from the past.

A husband and wife have to "sell" themselves as a team, damn well better be a team... I'd not want to vote for anyone who has a life partner that fights against them when they get the chance!!!

Even if they weren't sold as a "team" (whatever that means now) you expect her to come out openly against every policy he enacts at that time so she can distance herself from the ones she doesn't agree with arbitrarily?!

This line of thinking seems nonsensical at best...

Clinton = Damn good president, like most of the liberal presidents have been

This seems to be picking fly shit from pepper

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
31. This is false, Clinton was a damn good liberal president and Hillary and Bill are a team (hopefully)
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:09 AM
Jun 2015

... but not the same person.

What, she's now going to have to check with her husband or something in making policy!?

I don't like this article at all

merrily

(45,251 posts)
36. AGAIN, I never said they were the same person. Please stop repeating hyperbolic talking points that
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:17 AM
Jun 2015

have nothing to do with what I actually posted.

uponit7771

(90,355 posts)
43. Strawman, no one said you did. The article conflates the two beings and so do itimations
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:28 AM
Jun 2015

... that they're a "two for one" deal as if they were supposed to be a two headed hydra or some shit.

They were a team HOPEFULLY, they were supposed to go into the white house as a team...

The article is being redundent at best and stating somethings that's normal as an issue of sorts

merrily

(45,251 posts)
46. Yet, you keep posting that comment to me, not to the OP. I did not write or post the article.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:31 AM
Jun 2015

However, I very much doubt the OP article says they are the same person, either. That is, as I said, a hyberbolic talking point.
's

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
30. Merrily,that's an awesomely researched & powerful OP!
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:08 AM
Jun 2015

I have done a lot of research for my various jobs (over 4 decades) as NIMH Felllow & researcher, sociology & law professor and trial and legislative attorney. If you were briefing the issue, as in Brief in Support of Motion that HRC endorsed and enabled her husband's actions as POTUS, any judge would rule in your favor.

I am thankful for the time and efforts you put forth on DU to shine the light of truth on the debate between the Sanders and Clinton supporters. Your fact-based and thoroughly documented posts stand in stark contrast to the increasingly desperate posts by HRC supporters, which are at best exaggerated and at worst totally undocumented wishful claims.

While those few hundreds of us who post on this primary struggle will not likely change each other's commitments, there are thousands of undecideds, uncommitted people reading our posts, and I expect their choices will be based on facts presented in OPs like yours!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
34. Wow, I didn't know you were all those things. Thanks for such kind words, but it didn't take much
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:13 AM
Jun 2015

research. The campaign buttons were all on ebay when I wrote the post. (I hope they're still showing up. I didn't checked.

I think those buttons also suggest they were planning to go for first woman President for a long time. And, when she ran for Senate, some of her campaign buttons said New York, but some said Hillary for America.

I hope we help make up some minds, but mostly, I'm preaching to the choir. They may be able to make use of some of those facts in the real world.

Thanks again for your kind words. Very much appreciated.

,

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
110. Yes, they are and it was well known that she was one of his most influential advisers. This she can
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:34 AM
Jun 2015

be asked what her advise was on various issues. Indeed much of it is known already.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
7. She used race against Obama in 2008 again and again.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 06:28 AM
Jun 2015
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clint_n_81205.html

She said her constituency was "hard working white people."

Her fake Southern accent when she speaks to predominantly African American audiences doesn't do much for me either. Neither did her comparing being a United States Senator to working on a plantation.

Sorry, denial on the part of her fans doesn't do it. There are news stories and videos out there a-plenty.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
10. To be fair, when you lift up women, you lift up all women.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 06:43 AM
Jun 2015

For example, white women are by far not the only ones who need, and should have, control over their own bodies.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
11. To some extent
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:04 AM
Jun 2015

but this is a common and fair criticism of feminism. Historically white (and particularly wealthy) feminists were helped while their nannies and housekeepers were left out.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
14. I agree. It's to an extent. But, when you fight for equal pay for women and control of women's
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:13 AM
Jun 2015

bodies, you are affecting all women. When you fight to save the last abortion clinic in a state, you are affecting all women in that state. And so one.

Obviously, I am not a Hillary supporter, but I am trying to be fair. The women's issues she champions affect all women.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
15. I agree that some women's issues are about all women
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:17 AM
Jun 2015

and I don't know what the breakdown is, as far as if the women's movement ignored women of color (as it did for a long time) how much women of color would be helped vs. how much they'd be left behind. I just know I've read a lot about this issue, and it's not an uncommon or unfair criticism.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
16. I didn't say it was an unfair criticism. My post is in the context of this thread, again,
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:26 AM
Jun 2015

just an attempt to be fair to Hillary. AFAIK, at no time did she distinguish between white women and other women.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
12. After reading this and your thread in AA
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:04 AM
Jun 2015

it sounds like you are uncomfortable with the coalition many women and many people of color have built.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
32. What coalition of women?
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:10 AM
Jun 2015

I have yet to hear a unified voice from women. I am the only blood born boy in my family on my mom's side after my grandfather. 3 aunts, 17 female cousins and 4 sisters, all born and raised in Chicago; only two of which would follow Hillary's idea of feminism. Not surprisingly, those 2 are the same demographic ad Hillary - white, female and late 60s.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
58. I said "many women and many people of color"
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:36 AM
Jun 2015

have formed a coalition. That is an explicit statement that it isn't all women or all people of color.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
66. Again, what coalition? Please show me these
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:22 AM
Jun 2015

Coalitions that are speaking for women and PoC.

If you're using words like coalition, you need to quantify it, or at least qualify it with organizations.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
69. You're playing games with the defintion of "coalition"
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:28 AM
Jun 2015

But it's a game, it's not the standard defintion of "coalition," and you know exactly what I mean. Polls show that majority of women, and a majority of people of color, are going to vote for Clinton. I am a woman who is not part of that voting block, but I still recognize it exists. Pretending it isn't there isn't helping you or Sanders.


co·a·li·tion (kō′ə-lĭsh′ən)
n.
1. An alliance, especially a temporary one, of people, factions, parties, or nations.
2. A combination into one body; a union.
3.
a. A long-term cooperative alliance among a small number of male lions or cheetahs, especially to gain access to females or territory.
b. A transitory association of animals of the same species in which members join forces against another animal or animals to defend against an attack or gain access to a resource.
[French, from Medieval Latin coalitiō, coalitiōn-, from Latin coalitus, past participle of coalēscere, to grow together; see coalesce.]

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
112. I don't care if it helps her as I'm not voting for her
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jun 2015

I'd vote for O'Malley first. I have no agenda other than reality.

However, I am a Red Wings fan.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
72. there's been an informal one here for years, and it seems to piss off the op
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:37 AM
Jun 2015

It took me a long time to realize it put many of the most steadfast supporters of Womens rights happen to be POC. And vice versa. There's a bond in the commonality of experiences- and how many of those experiences are downplayed and minimized here. Funny that the OP would call himself out this way.
Anyway, this aligns pretty closely to my real life experiences- particularly at school and work as well. Not sure why this would surprise anyone?

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
75. You can say it exists all you want, but I'm not seeing it.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:44 AM
Jun 2015

I literally only know two people supporting Hillary, and they have the exact same background as Hillary - white, female and privileged.

I have many friends who are PoC and active in politics, and not a single one says they are supporting Hillary.

Where are these people outside of DU?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
85. You can downplay my life's experiences here-
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:02 AM
Jun 2015

And that's exactly why a bond exists- the shared experiences of having your experiences and issues downplayed. Feels like we're going in a circle. But maybe it's because you are viewing this through a Hillary lens?

I'm a product of very diverse and borderline impoverished enviornment where we were told were all we should finally have equal opportunity. We could see the pushback all around us. We could see a lot of people fighting to minimize our concerns and preserve the status quo. When you look around saying WTF? You notice others doing the same. Whether the OP likes it or not, there's a commonality of experience many of us speak from. He was never considered a second class citizen, and I am pretty sure he would like us to forget we were for far too long.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
113. I get that none of what I said is real- or matters much to you.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 03:33 PM
Jun 2015

Believe me I get it. Keep
Scratching your head when looking at voting patterns and wondering why. I don't need to.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
122. That's not a coalition. The Rainbow
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 12:37 AM
Jun 2015

coalition is a real coalition.

So again, I ask, who is this coalition?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
64. Sowing division and distrust is a game he tried in the AA group.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:04 AM
Jun 2015

It didn't go so well there either.
I was told (by another white guy- who also hates HOF- coincidentally!) I wasn't allowed to speak up for POC ever. I have had occasion to - particularly at work because I was a senior employee.

Fuck anyone who plays a game trying to bad mouth someone for doing the right thing.

Maybe if they ever stuck their neck our for someone theyd know how childish this argument is. Apparently looking the other way is better in their books. That explains alot.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
98. I make a practice of following the very few ...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:19 AM
Jun 2015

non-Black (I presume) posters that seem, by their posts, to "get" what the Black DUers have been saying, all along. I do so, in order to correct any misinterpretation. But, interestingly, I have had very little to correct. It seems that what we have been saying is not that hard to understand. Go figure.

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
13. And yet, according to her supporters...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:06 AM
Jun 2015

...minorities stand ready to clasp Hillary to their collective bosoms and to express their undying love to her by running through the streets singing hosanna to the highest.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
17. that's not only her supporters. It's polls.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:28 AM
Jun 2015

We read the news every day. Most people do not.

Even if they do, they don't necessarily break it all down as much as we do, or get articles from several sources on the same issue or event.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
33. Intersting article and interesting website ...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:11 AM
Jun 2015

unsurprisingly, the site's operators view "social justice" through an economic primacy and individual rights perspective, condemning HRC, not for her positions she takes today; but, for things her husband did and what she didn't do 30 years ago (e.g., welfare reform, the war of drugs, her seat on Walmart's board).

And oh yeah ... Why are you being divisive; trying to drive a wedge between women and PoC?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
53. The sincerity of his concern drips like melted ice cream...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:09 AM
Jun 2015

The sincerity of his concern drips like melted ice cream...

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
74. Letting the USSC fall to conservatives will
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:43 AM
Jun 2015

bring labor to its knees. So yeah, preserving our ability to collectively bargain is a priority of mine.

If Bernie gains the candidacy, I will eat any hat of your choosing. I wish we lived in a country where he wins. I don't think we do.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
76. We haven't had primaries, yet, remember? You're supporting Hillary over Bernie while you still have
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:45 AM
Jun 2015

a choice.

Supporting the corporatist candidate over the socialist, at this juncture, speaks for itself.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
78. And?
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:48 AM
Jun 2015

There are a metric shit ton of Bernie supporters here who have never given a shit about unions or socialism before this year. Things that make you go hmmmm

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
79. We all have a right to "evolve". But you support the corporate candidate over the more progressive
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:53 AM
Jun 2015

one.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
83. Yeah, I'd like my candidate to win.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:59 AM
Jun 2015

I believe I stated that Rom. Your grasp of the obvious is impressive.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
88. Great, glad we got that cleared up for you.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:04 AM
Jun 2015

Stick to your area of expertise, I always say.

I know who my union allies are here, and several posters here who support another candidate have been most vocal trashing teachers unions for years. Speaks volumes.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
90. You're a regular revolutionary for the status quo.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:06 AM
Jun 2015


And btw: my comments, all those years ago, were that teachers (such as yourself) shouldn't expect support from workers, if teachers won't support other workers (e.g. by supporting corporations' candidate over the more progressive candidate.)

And lookee here! You're supporting the candidate from Goldman Sachs because you (wrongly) think you'll be rewarded for betraying your fellow workers. So who was right, and who was wrong?

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
92. When the USSC strips collective bargaining
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:11 AM
Jun 2015

from labor next year, I'm sure we will see your full-throated OPs on the subject. I'm sure you will show us all how it's done.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
93. Supporting Wall Street's candidate (while we still have a choice!) doesn't help that.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jun 2015

Seriously. You need to rethink your positions.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
94. Yeah, seriously.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:16 AM
Jun 2015

When I believe Bernie has a chance in heck of stopping the erosion of working class gains by getting elected, I will do that. I don't right now.

When I see his supporters actually support labor and social justice, two cornerstones of any serious push for socialism, I might take his campaign seriously.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
42. Her actions over many years were kind of consistent with each other. To me, they are far
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:26 AM
Jun 2015

more telling than campaign rhetoric.

Funny, her supporters thought an essay Sanders wrote 43 years ago was more telling than his 100% record during his entire political career.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
51. Funny ...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:57 AM
Jun 2015

BErie supporters feel the need to inject him and/or attacks on HRC (or her suppoters) in every single post, as if that gIves more credence to their post.

I was referring to the OP, and the OP only.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
52. And I responded to your post. Funny, rather than address what I said about Hillary, you attack the
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:00 AM
Jun 2015

fact that I mentioned Bernie because the double standard was so glaring. For Hillary, we can't look past campaign rhetoric. For Bernie, we can go back 43 years and ignore everything after that. And, if I may, that's a odd reply from ror someone who's undecided.

That said, I still made a point about her careers. It speaks louder than campaign rhetoric.

ETA: You do know that I am an individual, right? I am not posting in concert with anyone. And I've made tons of posts without mentioning both candidates. If you have something to say about me or my posts, fair enough. I am not the poster child for all Bernie posters though.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
82. But it's ok for you to refer to Hillary's supporters as a single entity?
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:58 AM
Jun 2015

And you do this what? 60 times a day or so?

Pffff...

merrily

(45,251 posts)
87. Actually, I don't do that anywhere near in every post. That's false.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:04 AM
Jun 2015

Moreover, if you count how many times Bernie's supporters have been referred to on this board vs. how many times Hillary's supporters have been referred to, you will probably find that the former happens much more, even though Hillary's supporters seem to be a minority on this board.

And, while it's flattering to have so many of you want to comment on my post, it really is better if you focus more on substance than on your fellow posters.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
89. Oh there you go again, doing to others as you hate done to yourself.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:05 AM
Jun 2015

Good on ya...

Keep on Keeping on...

Whatever floats your boat....



merrily

(45,251 posts)
91. Try again. My Reply 42 had relevance to the thread topic.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:10 AM
Jun 2015

Every reply to me since then, including yours, has had zero relevance to the thread topic, just comments about me.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
96. Good thing about discussion boards....
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:18 AM
Jun 2015

Everyone can see the way the discussion actually unfolded.

This is the post you replied to:

Intersting article and interesting website ...

unsurprisingly, the site's operators view "social justice" through an economic primacy and individual rights perspective, condemning HRC, not for her positions she takes today; but, for things her husband did and what she didn't do 30 years ago (e.g., welfare reform, the war of drugs, her seat on Walmart's board).

And oh yeah ... Why are you being divisive; trying to drive a wedge between women and PoC?


This was your reply:

Her actions over many years were kind of consistent with each other. To me, they are far more telling than campaign rhetoric.

Funny, her supporters thought an essay Sanders wrote 43 years ago was more telling than his 100% record during his entire political career.


Quit playing innocent. You got back what you gave. It happens. Sometimes others will come along and point out when it does.




merrily

(45,251 posts)
99. Come to think of it JTFrog, I cannot think of a single post of yours to me that was about any topic
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:20 AM
Jun 2015

except me. I'm flattered, but try posting on the thread topic more. Who knows? You might like it.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
55. No doubt the irrational mind allows a handful of examples to act as the standard.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:13 AM
Jun 2015

"Funny, her supporters..."

No doubt the irrational mind allows a handful of examples to act as the standard. Well, irrational or simply biased; but I repeat myself...

Funny, part two.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
57. Neither irrational nor biased. There is no reason on earth that I would have started out
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:32 AM
Jun 2015

biased against Hillary. I have three reasons why she is not my candidate, and none of them are the result of anything but her own acts and omissions.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
61. The broad brush of Bernie's supporters was OK with you, though?
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:50 AM
Jun 2015

By the way, my statement was accurate as far as DU. A search of DU will tell you that.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
62. Nope, I criticize that too, though there are plenty of others...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:55 AM
Jun 2015

... to deal with it in this thread.

But are you really trying the "everybody else is doing it" defense? I don't accept that from my teenage daughter. She's old enough to know better.

I prefer Hillary as my candidate, but will support Bernie as best as I can if he gets the nomination.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
63. So, your response to my pointing out YOUR highly selective double standard is condescendingly
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:01 AM
Jun 2015

comparing me to your teenage daughter? LOL!

I recommend you post on the thread topic instead of about me.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
108. Yes, Hillary is a strong advocate on women's issues, all over the world and I am very happy someone
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:31 AM
Jun 2015

like Hillary is speaking up on these issues. She has also worked hard for Civil Rights and though it may surprise some, she has the ability to handle more than one issue making her very qualified to be president.

It wasn't until the seventies women was given the opportunity in many states to get jobs once reserved for males. It was in the fifties integration started happening in the south and more in the sixties.

ismnotwasm

(41,998 posts)
109. Well I'm glad to see you finally care about feminism
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:34 AM
Jun 2015

I hope for your support in the future. White feminism is indeed a topic that needs scrutiny--next time I start a thread on it in HOF, feel free to add your voice.



Meanwhile Clinton's campaign to help women and girls all around the world is in full swing. I hope for your support with this as well seeing how you care about women and women of color.

No Ceilings is also focused on hearing directly from girls and women about the progress and challenges they are seeing in their own lives. In 2014, No Ceilings launched the No Ceilings Conversations and the No Ceilings Survey to hear as many voices as possible and discuss the diversity of challenges that girls and women face in all aspects of society. In addition, No Ceilings is helping close gaps through CGI commitments, including the Collaborative Harnessing Ambition and Resources for Girls’ Education (CHARGE), which aims to advance girls’ secondary education around the world. CHARGE includes more than 30 partners, including companies, civil society organizations, multilaterals and governments, and has committed more than $600 million dollars to reach 14 million girls over five years.

- See more at: https://www.clintonfoundation.org/our-work/no-ceilings-full-participation-project/programs/background-no-ceilings#sthash.jN4uQEuz.dpuf



Beacool

(30,250 posts)
116. Well, this is what he thinks of Obama.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:15 PM
Jun 2015

In response to my post about Hillary Rodham Clinton the other day, several people — including Rebecca Spiff, in comments here — wrote to remind me that President Obama has been pretty terrible on a number of racial justice issues. Fair enough. I thought it was worth taking a look at some of what Obama’s done and what the landscape of racial justice looks like as he leaves office.

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2015/04/14/racial-justice-after-obama/

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
121. Read "Women, Race and Class" by Angela Davis
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 12:32 AM
Jun 2015

rather than this pathetic little bit of divide and conquer.

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