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100% right. This is exactly what happened. (Original Post) madfloridian Jun 2015 OP
And THAT is why he is different. Bonobo Jun 2015 #1
Exactly. madfloridian Jun 2015 #2
Yes. We can be certain that power NEVER concedes anything, unless it is forced. PatrickforO Jun 2015 #3
"in a society of lies, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." madfloridian Jun 2015 #4
Looks that way more every day. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #44
George Orwell was a Democratic Socialist who wrote 1984 in 1948 to diss Russia. merrily Jun 2015 #76
Remember folks, kacekwl Jun 2015 #45
Absofreakinlutely! Dustlawyer Jun 2015 #56
^ nationalize the fed Jun 2015 #5
Thanks for the video. madfloridian Jun 2015 #6
What a load of bullshit they sold back then. nc4bo Jun 2015 #13
Brilliant clarity from Goldsmith throughout the video. Prescient. dgauss Jun 2015 #68
We should begin a general strike. nilesobek Jun 2015 #7
awesome NJCher Jun 2015 #39
I called Feinstein, what a joke dreamnightwind Jun 2015 #8
I haven't voted for her the last 2 times she was up for re-election. onecaliberal Jun 2015 #52
Yes, luckily she has not needed my vote dreamnightwind Jun 2015 #53
Kamala is corporate dem. I need to see more onecaliberal Jun 2015 #67
I was afraid of that, I need to learn more about her too dreamnightwind Jun 2015 #73
Definitely. If Feinstein is any example, it's very difficult to get them out onecaliberal Jun 2015 #74
A complete joke catchnrelease Jun 2015 #69
Sadly I agree, how do we get her out of office? Let's explore ways to get it done! - n/t dreamnightwind Jun 2015 #72
Kickety kick kick. Scuba Jun 2015 #9
I'm becoming disillusioned madokie Jun 2015 #10
Well, we will all get to see it now because TPA passed. RiverLover Jun 2015 #11
We can only learn what's in it when it's a done deal. madfloridian Jun 2015 #17
And isn't there something about one part not being revealed for 4 years after it is passed? That jwirr Jun 2015 #25
I think it's the negotiating details that are hidden for 4 years. arcane1 Jun 2015 #28
I thought I read recently that it was the section on the rules for corporate courts lark Jun 2015 #35
That could be! Definitely take my post with a grain of salt n/t arcane1 Jun 2015 #37
I believe that portion - the Aerows Jun 2015 #38
I'm totally freaked by it. lark Jun 2015 #40
If they have to keep it secret from us it just can't be good for us. madfloridian Jun 2015 #77
100% agree lark Jun 2015 #78
The thing is if he had at least put up a token opposition he could have A Simple Game Jun 2015 #36
We know who those who voted to pass it are listening to, LWolf Jun 2015 #12
Yes, we know. madfloridian Jun 2015 #16
Soon the party faithful will be here to scold us for not voting enough. MindPilot Jun 2015 #14
Kick. Some invest in democracy for all, some against it. nt raouldukelives Jun 2015 #15
Sad kick. Lifelong Protester Jun 2015 #18
K&R think Jun 2015 #19
Yet sometimes Cassandra is the only one who is right. hifiguy Jun 2015 #20
I agree BUT... rbnyc Jun 2015 #21
And bad for our sovereignty. Corporations are now writing our laws. They are paying for our sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #23
yes yes yes!!! rbnyc Jun 2015 #30
+1,000,000 florida08 Jun 2015 #59
+1,000,000 florida08 Jun 2015 #58
Congressional office holders can be set for life simply by doing what corporations want. jalan48 Jun 2015 #22
Thank you Bernie. You heard us. You listened when we talked. jwirr Jun 2015 #24
our goverment Marblehead Jun 2015 #26
What I don't understand about the TPP, is that Obama was not Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #27
He probably had a multi-million dollar carrot dangling in front of him. cui bono Jun 2015 #50
We have an opportunity to add new blood to the party via primary opponents. arcane1 Jun 2015 #29
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2015 #31
They did what their corporate handlers told them to do. blackspade Jun 2015 #32
K & R Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #33
Since Obama got his way and he is pissed of at unions What's next? INdemo Jun 2015 #34
Obama has NEVER been a "Friend of Unions". bvar22 Jun 2015 #41
His ideology is somewhere else, not with organized labor. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #43
K&R! It was entirely due to bribery. We must consider that. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #42
Rec Number 150 Pooka Fey Jun 2015 #46
I knew it was a bad deal even though mstinamotorcity2 Jun 2015 #47
K and R DeeDeeNY Jun 2015 #48
MF, have you seen this? sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #49
No, had not seen it. Early endorsement and a good one. madfloridian Jun 2015 #57
and a big fat KICK for this post nt LiberalElite Jun 2015 #51
thank you for posting that. nt antigop Jun 2015 #54
K&R! Omaha Steve Jun 2015 #55
K & R L0oniX Jun 2015 #60
exactly right florida08 Jun 2015 #61
We have to fight the billionaires for our lives. nm rhett o rick Jun 2015 #62
Business as usual. Alkene Jun 2015 #63
K&R lordsummerisle Jun 2015 #64
I will never call mine again. I'm done begging these politicians to do their jobs Autumn Jun 2015 #65
Good to see Hillary's similar renunciation whatchamacallit Jun 2015 #66
Very straightforwardly put! rock Jun 2015 #70
Remember. The lesser of two evils Jakes Progress Jun 2015 #71
K&R ..........Yeah! What he said. n/t Hotler Jun 2015 #75

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
1. And THAT is why he is different.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 01:48 AM
Jun 2015

And THAT is why I support him.

And THAT is why it is a lie when people say that he and Hillary are virtually the same on the issues.

PatrickforO

(14,577 posts)
3. Yes. We can be certain that power NEVER concedes anything, unless it is forced.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 01:57 AM
Jun 2015

Bernie is a populist and means to force the issues by talking about them. As George Orwell said, in a society of lies, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

This is why I'm supporting Bernie.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
76. George Orwell was a Democratic Socialist who wrote 1984 in 1948 to diss Russia.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 09:16 AM
Jun 2015

Knowing the latter, I had incorrectly assumed that Orwell was more conservative than that. My bad.

Eric Arthur Blair (25 June 1903 – 21 January 1950),[1] who used the pen name George Orwell, was an English novelist, essayist, journalist and critic. His work is marked by lucid prose, awareness of social injustice, opposition to totalitarianism, and commitment to democratic socialism.[2][3]

Orwell wrote literary criticism, poetry, fiction, and polemical journalism. He is perhaps best known for his dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949) and the allegorical novella Animal Farm (1945). His non-fiction works, including The Road to Wigan Pier (1937), documenting his experience of working class life in the north of England, and Homage to Catalonia (1938), an account of his experiences in the Spanish Civil War, are widely acclaimed, as are his essays on politics, literature, language, and culture. In 2008, The Times ranked him second on a list of "The 50 greatest British writers since 1945".[4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell

kacekwl

(7,017 posts)
45. Remember folks,
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 05:51 PM
Jun 2015

Bernie can't do it alone. We need to step up and do what we can to talk him up to everyone we know. We need to keep calling whoever and make our feelings known even if you think it won't help. If we work together and let all know we can't and won't stand for business as usual.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
56. Absofreakinlutely!
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 08:25 PM
Jun 2015

We also need to start recruiting people to run that are from the un-bought that will stay that way to run for public office!
It seems that most (but not all) Hillary supporters would back Bernie but for their fear he cannot get elected. If you keep that attitude, you will never throw off the yoke of Wall Street and the Plutocrats. Besides, un-bought politicians are extremely rare these days!

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
5. ^
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:08 AM
Jun 2015
Enabling companies to move $30/hour jobs to countries with $.60/hour wages so a few billionaires can pocket the difference is not trade.


Sir James Goldsmith in 1994



The US needed Goldsmith and got Clinton and D'Andrea-Tyson and now the TPP joins NAFTA as a proud Democratic Accomplishment. And the TPA is good for 6 years! Imagine what the next president will do with this awesome power.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
6. Thanks for the video.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:57 AM
Jun 2015

I wasn't paying as much attention to trade stuff back then. I came home from teaching with hours of work ahead, just tired..

I am really paying attention now.

dgauss

(882 posts)
68. Brilliant clarity from Goldsmith throughout the video. Prescient.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 09:34 PM
Jun 2015

And yeah, Charlie Rose is pretentious and clueless, as usual.

People should watch this, the whole thing is worthwhile. Thanks for posting it.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
8. I called Feinstein, what a joke
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 05:16 AM
Jun 2015

Her staffer didn't even pretend that she would follow the wishes of the majority of her constituents. She works for corporations, not for her constituents, and it couldn't be any more clear.

onecaliberal

(32,864 posts)
52. I haven't voted for her the last 2 times she was up for re-election.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 07:59 PM
Jun 2015

She's a corporate whore, and a war profiteer. The sad thing is, we won't be able to get her out and now that Boxer is retiring, I fear we will end up with another corporate Dem.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
53. Yes, luckily she has not needed my vote
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 08:12 PM
Jun 2015

to beat her Republican opponent, so I haven't given it to her. Nadin made some comment about the party not allowing us to primary incumbents, know anything about that? That would suck.

I've heard Kamala Harris is being positioned for Boxer's seat, is she any good or not? She was a DA and I usually don't like law enforcement types, need to find out more about her. I see a lot of support for her on DU but then I see a lot of support for corporate Dems I don't like, so withholding judgement till I know more.

Very discouraging if we can't remove Feinstein. I've never met anyone who thinks she actually represents their interests.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
73. I was afraid of that, I need to learn more about her too
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 05:35 AM
Jun 2015

California deserves good Senators! It's a huge state and its Senate races attract a lot of money, so that's certainly part of the problem.

onecaliberal

(32,864 posts)
74. Definitely. If Feinstein is any example, it's very difficult to get them out
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 08:40 AM
Jun 2015

Once they're in and entrenched in the money.

catchnrelease

(1,945 posts)
69. A complete joke
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 10:23 PM
Jun 2015

She flat out admitted that she did not follow what over 10,000 of her constituents asked her to do, when she voted for the AUMF in Iraq. She said that if she had listened to those who contacted her she would have voted no, but that she had 'inside' information so she knew going to war was necessary. I'm sure the fact that her husband is (was?) a contractor for the military had nothing to do with her vote and her inside info.

I have never forgiven her for that vote and have always voted for any primary challenger that has come up since then. Can't wait until she's gone. Wish Boxer was staying.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
10. I'm becoming disillusioned
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 07:34 AM
Jun 2015

it would be nice if we knew what was in the TPP.
Seems that none of the trade agreements we've entered into has been good for us. I held out for as long as I could hoping that by supporting this the president was hoping to kill it but I now don't see that that way. Come on Mr President talk to us and take a page out of Bernie Sanders book and use language that we can all understand, please

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
11. Well, we will all get to see it now because TPA passed.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 07:41 AM
Jun 2015

But no changes can be made to the TPP or the TTIP with TPA in force. That's what TPA fast track does, and why its needed for bad trade deals written by corporations.

TPA shatters illusions the people have a say & will have representation in our govt.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
17. We can only learn what's in it when it's a done deal.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 01:02 PM
Jun 2015

They haven't heard a word we've said. They have not listened to any of our concerns.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
25. And isn't there something about one part not being revealed for 4 years after it is passed? That
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 03:14 PM
Jun 2015

part must be a real good deal.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
28. I think it's the negotiating details that are hidden for 4 years.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 03:21 PM
Jun 2015

Who asked for what and didn't get it, etc.

It still sucks.

lark

(23,105 posts)
35. I thought I read recently that it was the section on the rules for corporate courts
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 04:24 PM
Jun 2015

that was hidden for 4 years.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
38. I believe that portion - the
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 04:41 PM
Jun 2015
ISDS is shielded from view for 4 years. There are other details that are hidden for 5 years, but I don't remember which area that covered.

That was my understanding of it - granted, the TPP is so shrouded in secrecy, getting enough information is nearly impossible, which should scare the shit out of anyone that is a citizen of the countries that it covers.

lark

(23,105 posts)
40. I'm totally freaked by it.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 04:49 PM
Jun 2015

It's just so depressing to me that Obama and the Dems stood up with the Repugs and the 1% today to increase the price of medicines, move more US jobs overseas, and gut our labor and environmental rules, including gutting local rules re above.

Can anyone who's not in thrall of the 1% ever win president?

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
36. The thing is if he had at least put up a token opposition he could have
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 04:28 PM
Jun 2015

gotten some bones for the rest of us as a compromise. But the way he went about it the first thing to go was one of those bones, given to the reactionary branch of the Republicans for their votes.

Our Negotiator in Chief some call him. Seems it's pretty easy to negotiate for what you want when the opposition wants the same thing.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
12. We know who those who voted to pass it are listening to,
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 07:47 AM
Jun 2015

and it's not us. The big question: Will America continue to elect people who listen to corporate money rather than voters?

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
14. Soon the party faithful will be here to scold us for not voting enough.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 08:58 AM
Jun 2015

Anyone who thinks a vote matters is clinging to a delusion. And talking to your "representative" is slightly less effective than talking to God.

Lifelong Protester

(8,421 posts)
18. Sad kick.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:02 PM
Jun 2015

Tired of being ignored.
Tired of the 'bought and paid for' representatives not giving a crap about the American worker.
Will we have to listen to more crap about how we have to get 'more competitive'? About how Americans are 'overpaid'?

rbnyc

(17,045 posts)
21. I agree BUT...
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:39 PM
Jun 2015

...I wish we would remember that more than just jobs are at stake.

This is bad for workers. But this is also and for the environment, for net neutrality, for public health, and for democracy.

It's devastating for jobs, but when we make it sound like that's the sole issue, it's like saying that we are okay with the TPP as long as we get our cut.

I know that neither Bernie nor the majority of trade activists believe that, but we need to be careful with our message.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
23. And bad for our sovereignty. Corporations are now writing our laws. They are paying for our
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 03:03 PM
Jun 2015

Reps, sorry THEIR Reps, it is a Corporate Coup that has been almost completed.

We have no voice, they do not care what the people think anymore, they don't have to. That SHOWS how much power they have gained while we were conned into 'voting for the lesser evil to stop the 'more evil'.

jalan48

(13,870 posts)
22. Congressional office holders can be set for life simply by doing what corporations want.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:56 PM
Jun 2015

I would guess that their kids and grandkids can be as well. It's a powerful incentive to vote the right way on key issues. By 'right' I don't mean what's good for most Americans.

Baitball Blogger

(46,736 posts)
27. What I don't understand about the TPP, is that Obama was not
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jun 2015

pressured to do this. At least, when Clinton signed NAFTA, you had the feeling he was doing it to throw a steak at the dogs to keep them off his trail from the investigations that he was under.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
50. He probably had a multi-million dollar carrot dangling in front of him.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 07:51 PM
Jun 2015

He's not stupid. He'll be well taken care of from now on.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
29. We have an opportunity to add new blood to the party via primary opponents.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 03:22 PM
Jun 2015

And every one of these bastards who voted "yes" needs a challenger in their next election to make them explain why, and own that vote

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
34. Since Obama got his way and he is pissed of at unions What's next?
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 04:17 PM
Jun 2015

Will he continue to please his Republican friends in Congress and pass more job killing anti-union legislation.
Hell Obama is so damn co-operative with his Republican Congress they might even finf a way to allow him a third term.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
41. Obama has NEVER been a "Friend of Unions".
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 04:59 PM
Jun 2015

He pretended to be a friend during Campaign 2008 when he promised EFCA, renegotiating NAFTA to protect American jobs, Put on comfortable shoes and walk the line with strikers (and on and on).....

He isn't just pissed at Unions, he's pissed at the entire Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party.
NONE were appointed to cabinet positions or other positions of power in his administration.

mstinamotorcity2

(1,451 posts)
47. I knew it was a bad deal even though
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 06:25 PM
Jun 2015

the President said he was for it. Funky ass Republicans have fought him tooth and nail over everything. then all of a sudden they are going to sit silent. Bullshit. Let some more get in there and its going to be worse.

florida08

(4,106 posts)
61. exactly right
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 09:00 PM
Jun 2015

Because they consider us ignorant and not paying attention. Partly right. Participation in elections is dropping to the point we will lose it. People are waking up but don't know if it's enough or fast enough to stop the march of fascism that is so prevalent.

Alkene

(752 posts)
63. Business as usual.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 09:14 PM
Jun 2015

It seems like the only thing that changes is how much worse things are.

Or something like that.

Autumn

(45,107 posts)
65. I will never call mine again. I'm done begging these politicians to do their jobs
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 09:19 PM
Jun 2015

and represent the people.

Jakes Progress

(11,122 posts)
71. Remember. The lesser of two evils
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 11:52 PM
Jun 2015

is still evil.

I don't know why anyone bothers listening to candidates running for office (and they are always running). They lie. They just lie. Without embarrassment or qualm. Obama said things and then did exactly the opposite. So did bush. As avid as many here were for the daring truth-teller that they saw in candidate Obama, how can anyone trust any candidate again. Bernie sounds good. But Obama sounded good.

I remember reading an interview with John Cusak where the reporter talked about the cynicism of believing that both parties were completely in the hands of the ultra-rich and the corporate interests. His reply was that it was not cynical to live in a reality based world.

I am struck by a quote from a Salon interview with Chris Hedges: http://tinyurl.com/http-SalonEsquith

We have, to quote John Ralston Saul, “undergone a corporate coup d’état in slow motion” and it’s over. The normal mechanisms by which we carry out incremental and piecemeal reform through liberal institutions no longer function. They have been seized by corporate power — including the press.


The scary part is the realization that the coup is over. It is hard to see any other reality than that the corporate world now owns the nation. The few office holders that can't be bought are marginalized, but, as we see with the fevered fight our president just put up to win this for the fat cats, almost all can be or have been bought.

This is not saying that both parties are the same. But they do answer to same bosses. And neither cares what the people want. Picking one over the other is just high school football team rivalry.

I've quit calling myself cynical.
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