If the TPP being rammed through puts the lie to anything

[Bonobo]

It is the often stated idea that the president "can't get anything done" when the Congress opposes him.

Obama simply pushed and pushed and refused to give in.

I wished he had fought this hard for the single payer health care he campaigned on.

It is a matter of where ones priorities are moe than anything else.

[joshcryer]

1. Congress agreed with him on TPA.

We'll see if they actually pass TAA or if it'll be kicked down the road for years or what.

My guess is that they'll concede on TAA and TPP will pass, but only after a lot of TAA concessions are made.

Obama is not signing TPA/TPA without TAA.

[RiverLover]

5. We need a TAA only because the TPP is going to take even MORE jobs away from Americans.

We need to WAKE UP.

And to add salt to the wound, the TAA doesn't do all that much for displaced workers. It just makes the people screwing us feel less guilty about it.

[Volaris]

19. It's not the screwers that have any guilt..

It's their Fluffers in Congress.

[ladjf]

28. Well, waking up won't get us out of the political

manipulation we are now suffering. I think Sanders , in his speeches, comes to closest to answering how to rise out of this. But,
his suggestions, although sell thought out and intentioned, seem impossible to implement.

Personally, I've never felt this discouraged in my life. Sorry, to be such a downer.

[cascadiance]

26. More like the corporate owners off congress agreed with him on TPA...

... and they didn't want to see something like single payer to be passed by their government slaves!

[billhicks76]

83. Proves Obama Is A Liar

It's all a scam. We were duped. Obama IS a Trojan Horse so get over it. I know it's uncomfortable and even I don't like admitting it but facts are facts regardless of your predetermined belief system. Obama never fought against NSA, mass incarceration, the drug war, wall st fraud, military incursions etc etc. Blaming it on republican majorities is naive. He could've fought and yelled loud. There is a reason he didn't. TPP ensures we won't be allowed to label Non-GMO or no BGH. Is sells out our sovereignty. Anyone who voted for it is basically a traitor. That means all republicans and about 30% of democrats.

[uponit7771]

2. What was the alternative to TPP? tia Looks like agree on something or start a currency war that...

... would net us greater loss.

Thx in advance for any input

regards

[joshcryer]

3. Remove "permanent normal trade relations" with China.

Result: Wal-Mart goes bankrupt. 95% of goods quadruple in price (not food).

TPP is a geopolitical fix to ween the US off of China's cheap slave labor.

Bernie Sanders attempted to repeal "permanent normal trade relations" with China in 2005. It had broad support with 61 co-sponsers. Unfortunately it didn't go anywhere.

[jwirr]

36. How does TPP ween us off of China's cheap slave labor by diverting production to other slave

labor countries? Just wondering.

[joshcryer]

62. You answer your own question...

...those countries don't have "permanent normal trade relations." Access to those markets is difficult.

The American people want cheap slave labor produced goods.

[jwirr]

68. Okay - got cha. However I for one do not want these slave labor goods. And would do without them

if I could.

[jeff47]

39. TPP doesn't do anything to prevent a currency war.

At least, the TPA bills that explicitly required the TPP ban currency manipulation were shot down. Heavily implying the TPP doesn't cover that.

If the TPP did ban currency manipulation, then there would be no problem "tying Obama's hands" with a ban on currency manipulation.

[HereSince1628]

4. It also suggests that what gets past the resistance is often worse.

And that is one of the more difficult things about politics...A determined push moves through the cracks and weaknesses of the defense

So it all requires understanding what you are up against...you can work along to manage damage, or resist and possibly be ignored.

We've watched as Obama's approach moved along towards the latter. What finally got through was an approach that split away the defense that was the TAA.

[joshcryer]

6. Obama won't sign without TAA.

To think otherwise is foolish. The longer Congress delays the better TAA becomes.

[HereSince1628]

7. Sounds ok, but I'm not convinced 'what was-will be".

Obama is determined about getting this thing, in a way that involves what is publicaly uncharacteristic personalizing resistance and ad hominem attacks against democrats

He's deeply into pressing for cracks to get it through, casting off a long standing program that has been questionably effective may be his easiest way forward.

[PatrickforO]

8. Yeah but we wouldn't need TAA if we didn't have these 'free trade' agreements

[WillyT]

18. Um... You Sure About That ???

At a Tuesday afternoon briefing following the vote, White House spokesperson Josh Earnest made clear that getting Obama’s legacy-defining trade deal done was a priority. Asked three times, he refused to say whether the president would sign the fast-track bill if the trade assistance package doesn’t pass.

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026888820

[joshcryer]

61. If he signs without TAA then it never passes.

Congress would never pass it.

[WillyT]

67. I Guess We Shall See... Tanking TAA Was Supposed To Kill TPP... It Did Not...

Keeping fingers crossed here.

[jeff47]

41. TAA has utterly failed after every previous "trade" agreement.

TAA is political cover. It doesn't actually do any good.

First, you have to get your former employer to admit that they shipped your job overseas. They didn't. They outsourced their supply chain...to a company that happens to be overseas.

If you get very lucky and your ex-employer admits to shipping your job overseas, you can now get "retraining". Which won't do shit for getting you a new job. A little retraining isn't going to get you a job that requires a 4-year degree.

And even if we pretend the TAA actually covers 4-year-degrees, a 40+ "entry level" worker will never compete well with a 20-something 'entry level" worker. Companies know they can abuse the 20-somethings much more.

After NAFTA, people who took TAA made less than people who did not. There's some sampling issues (the first problem above - how do you pick who lost their job due to offshoring), but it demonstrates TAA isn't much of a fix.

[joshcryer]

63. We don't disagree.

It is definitely political cover. Without it though a lot of labor groups will be even more pissed off. You do realize splitting up the TAA and TPA vote was advocated by the AFL-CIO, right?

[hedda_foil]

76. I disagree.

The congressional Democrats are the ones who have been pushing for TAA, not the president. If the TPA passes both houses without TAA, I believe he'll sign it happily, though grumblingly. It's just a plausible political cover for the Dems voting for TPA in any case, but there's a bright side for Hillary. She can be outraged over the lack of TAA and the fact that all the House Democrats can vote for it without it passing sets them up for outrage too. So by losing, it sets all of them up with a huge campaign talking point.

Game, set, match.

[joshcryer]

78. I should say, he might sign without TAA...

...if he believes the votes are there for TAA. I'd be shocked if he signs TPA and they don't pass TAA within a few days of that.

TAA was part and parcel to the TPP agreement, they split TPP fast track into TPA and TAA resolutions. It was originally supposed to be a single vote.

Since Pelosi is now supporting it and doesn't appear to have gotten any concessions, if it passes I think that Clinton will be in even more of a bind on TPP. At the debates she'll have to answer for it since she backed Pelosi.

[Fred Sanders]

9. Another demander of perfection making an enemy of the good, it is an epidemic. Yawners.

[marmar]

12. This is "the good" ?

I'd hate to see "the bad".

[Fred Sanders]

14. You fail to comprehend a commonly understood saying? Emoticons do not help with understanding anything.

Every other recent President has excercised their prerogative as President on international trade agreement, do folks know that?

[marmar]

20. Oh, I understand it. It's just not applicable in this case.

[olegramps]

31. Do you know that only the U.S. has Fast Track?

Just why in that? When it comes to the proposed deal with Europe, Obama is going to run into a whirlwind. The citizens of Europe are far more knowledgeable then the majority of those in the TPP deal and have the ability to resist.

[Fred Sanders]

32. Do you know when fast track general authority request to Congress was given to Presidents was made law, and why!? History is informative.

[jeff47]

42. Then you'd be able to provide a link to that history.

Far more effective than waving your hands and asserting.

Btw, if it was actually "made law", then Obama wouldn't need a new "fast track" bill now. So showing your version of history would be quite helpful.

[olegramps]

43. Yes, it might surprise you that most on this board know this.

That doesn't mean that I or any other informed person can not still oppose it. Why don't you address that question that I asked rather than side stepping it by asking a question? Fast Tracks has only served the corporate interests in not allowing an amendments that would limit their power. Just how has any of the trade deals benefited the America worker? It is well documented that everyone of them has resulted in lost jobs?

When unions have objected and filed justified complaints the process has not resulted in timely resolution but has taken years while the foreign companies continue to dump products on the market. There are a number of important issues that you must be well knowledgeable about that will not be addressed under the present system.

Such as just how does an American worker compete against a Vietnamese worker who makes fifty cents and hour? How does this increase our exports when they are barely making enough to survive. How are workers going to unionize and demand better pay and treatment when unions are outlawed and organizers are beaten and throw in jail on trumped up charges? The list goes on and on.........

[Fred Sanders]

44. The Vietnamese worker is paid in something not dollars and buys with something not dollars in an

economy that does not use dollars, in a country with a vastly lower cost of living...so yes, the America worker can compete, if folks understand the World does not begin and end at America's borders.

[olegramps]

46. You should aquaint yourself with the facts concerning foreign workers.

Tune in to the Ed Show and listen to the facts concerning the attempts by Vietnamese workers to make a decent living. They are living on the very brink of disaster and it sure as hell doesn't matter what the name of their currency is. Thousands of children are employed in order for families to survive while Nike spends about 2.50 producing and shipping shoes to the U.S. where they sell them for ridiculous amounts of money. They made billions in profits last year and they sure as hell didn't share their bounty with the workers. This and every trade deal sucks, period.

[Fred Sanders]

47. Call me compassionate if you want but I believe the Vietnamese worker will benefit from the

TPP and the American worker will benefit by having more foreign consumers able and willing to purchase American goods, and that is a part of my support of it, along with my blind trust of Obama's judgment.

[Dont call me Shirley]

49. Right now, the majority of US exports are weapons. So that's a good thing?

[Fred Sanders]

50. What? Not true, though American weapons sales are a huge problem, not to Vietnam though, and...what?

[olegramps]

59. Tell me what is different about this trade agreement and NAFTA for example.

The Mexican workers are worst off than before and it has been determined to have been a disaster for American workers whose jobs were outsourced. I am having a problem even comprehending your reasoning. Millions of American workers jobs along with the machinery to produce goods were shipped overseas where greedy corporate bastards exploit the workers. Get the facts straight. They didn't help foreign workers in fact the enslaved them with workers putting in 60 or 70 and even more hours a week. Many are worked seven days a week and given minimal breaks after weeks on this schedule. They have employed children as young a nine and tens years of age. ?When President Obama went to a Nike facility to campaign for TPP I could have vomited.

I think your compassion is misplaced and needs an adjustment with reality.

[Fred Sanders]

60. Since the TPA has passed I will look at the TPP with you and everyone else and we can then more intelligently comment?

[appalachiablue]

88. That I can believe from news of effective demonstrations in Munich and other parts of Europe.

Fascist Track needs to end-

[truebrit71]

10. But Congress DIDN'T oppose him....the republican held congress LOVES this bill...

...that's the damn problem!

[Renew Deal]

11. Congress didn't oppose him on this.

There was bipartisan support from the beginning. He had the votes.

[NorthCarolina]

13. Actually, as I recall he campaigned on a "public option",

not "single payer". I do recall he said something to the effect that a single payer system would be the best option, but that he was setting his sights on a public option. Of course, after the election that campaign stuff was dispensed with post haste.

[GoneFishin]

15. Precisely. This is what a person looks like when they make a sincere effort rather than play acting

like he does with every progressive economic policy for which he has cries crocodile tears but secretly undermines behind closed doors.

This is what was glaringly missing during his dismissive treatment of the public option, and the reason I was sure we had been had. And further, why I was not surprised to later read that he had negotiated away the public option to the health care companies before the ACA public discussions had even started.

[appalachiablue]

16. A buy-partisan effort, for multinational corporations not US citizens who elect our representatives.

What will it take to end Fascist Track and change these trade agreements/treaties that harm American workers?

(Photo credit to RiverLover).

K & R!

[olegramps]

34. The guy fucks him and he responds by kissing his ass.

I have often mused about why is it that Obama wants to be friends and buddies with the enemy. He doesn't seem to have the independence and self confidence like Roosevelt who said he welcomed their hatred.

[appalachiablue]

40. FDR's a difficult comparison for any politician, but agree this is one of the most unequipped,

conciliatory and insecure government executives I've ever seen. Politicians must possess the craftiness, persuasion and fighting skills necessary for the occupation, like FDR for example who excelled in public life or they fail. And it's been a highly opposed, unfair and unfortunate situation and that's tragic. In my half century here I've followed many outstanding and highly accomplished black politicians, leaders and professionals and this is truly baffling.

[Dont call me Shirley]

64. Good one, appalachiablue, Fascist Track!

[appalachiablue]

69. It's what it is unfortunately!

[nikto]

77. With added caption ...

[appalachiablue]

79. They might even become gold buddies. Politics is a strange business, anything can happen!

Woops, I meant GOLF buddies- wow it's late, sorry

[nikto]

81. lol

[WinkyDink]

17. Congress was opposed to the TPP?

[deutsey]

21. My thoughts too n/t

[CanonRay]

22. Except he was pushing for something the GOP wanted

which makes me wonder what side he's really on. If your sworn enemies want something very bad, should you be on their side?

[truedelphi]

54. It's one Big Money Party -

The only thing separating the Centrist Dems from the Republicans are social issues like abortion and tolerance for LGBT marriage rights. Other than that, they both support the same policies so they win the same type of favors from the MIC And Big Surveillance Corporations.

Recently, Bill Clinton got some $ 670,000 for giving a single speech in front of a Goldman Sachs podium. Days later, a Beechcraft Aircraft Company bid for war materials went through the State Department and was approved.

It is all quid pro quo.

[dmosh42]

23. Jami & the bankers demanded the TPP, and Obama & the ass-lickers will carry it out!

[cascadiance]

29. I think many of us who attend Obama speeches from this time forward should turn our backs on him!

To let him know that we don't appreciate being screwed as voters who put him in office to defend us against the very things he put in to law!

[dmosh42]

33. This is like going back to 1910, with the bluebloods calling the shots.

[hedda_foil]

80. Precisely, dmosh42, pre fucking cisely.

[neverforget]

24. Republicans, US Chamber of Commerce and corporate Democrats

love this bill. Corporations get what corporations want. Congress doesn't represent the American people. It represents money and those who have it.

[yallerdawg]

25. Fact checking - Obama promised single payer?

June 29, 2009 FactCheck.org

We debunked this falsehood when Sen. John McCain said it during the third presidential debate. McCain claimed that “as he said, his object is a single payer system.” But as a presidential candidate, Obama didn’t say that at all. And the plan he proposed wasn’t a single-payer system, one in which everyone is covered by health insurance through the government. As we said in our Oct. 16 article, Obama said at a town hall meeting in Albuquerque last summer that a single payer system would “probably” be his first choice “if” he were “designing a system from scratch.” But instead, he said, his “attitude is let’s build up the system we got, let’s make it more efficient, we may be over time – as we make the system more efficient and everybody’s covered – decide that there are other ways for us to provide care more effectively.”

Six years ago, Obama did say at an AFL-CIO forum that he was “a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program.” But that was 2003, and that’s not what he campaigned on as a presidential candidate. He has recently taken heat from single-payer advocates for not including them in discussions about overhauling the health care system.

[Myrina]

27. Bingo.

n/t

[cantbeserious]

30. It Is Clear That Obama Sold The 99% Out

eom

[Thespian2]

35. Obama has shown, through his actions,

exactly where his desires have been since first elected...

TPP and TTIP equals the destruction of American democracy...in favour of corporate oligarchy...

[Betty Karlson]

37. Yes, that was a lie.

Remember when senator Blanche Lincoln was ostensably jubilant when "single payer had been killed"? That was ONE f*cking senator. This time there were 37 senators deeply concerned, if not about their constituants then about the rift in the Democratic Party. And Obama steamrolled them all.

[raouldukelives]

38. OTOH It is refreshing to actually see him fighting for something.

Sometimes finding the right pair of shoes helps. In this case, it was the ones made by children.

[Fred Sanders]

48. It indeed must be refreshing for some folks to have lost all memory of the last 6 years.

[raouldukelives]

71. Yep, for them it is all peaches and cream.

Most people are hard wired to only remember the good. Especially when they are all so personally invested in "winning".

Like losing a child in an illegal war. Nobody wants to believe their child died for a mistake and will rage til the dying light how much of a hero they really are.

[Fred Sanders]

72. Like losing a child in a war?....S T R E T C H. That is not analogy, that is literary butchery.

Who does not like peaches and cream? Like apple pie and ice cream...yummy...on this we can agree!

[raouldukelives]

74. Amem to that. Lord help me to only ever be guilty of butchering words.

Oh man, you got me thinking. Blackberry cobbler and homemade ice cream.

[Cali_Democrat]

45. Bernie Sanders: Single Payer Never Had A Chance

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002482243

[eridani]

65. Remind me never to let you sell a used car for me

If you wand $5000 for it, you have to ask for at least $8,000. If you demand single payer, you might wind up with a public option.

[randys1]

51. Well THAT is ridiculous

[Fred Sanders]

52. On DU the transparent ridiculousness over a trade treaty dominated by opening of trade with huge/rich Japan has become the sublime.

When they say Vietnam, I point out that consumer-rich Japan dwarfs all the other new partners combined...would you rather have China do a trade agreement?

By the same logic American workers are at risk of getting paid Japanese wages.

[randys1]

53. The comparison the OP makes is not just ridiculous, but should NEVER be seen on an alleged

liberal message board, NEVER.

[Fred Sanders]

56. I am of two minds. On the one hand, as you say. But on the other it is a chance to change minds with

the simple refrain: Have You Seen The OTHER Side? Give your precious liberal heads a collective shake!

Or just to have fun with the hypocrisy and amnesia, there is that also.

[Number23]

70. This is a really nonsensical OP. Not only did Congress approve of the TPP but so have majorities

of Americans, with some caveats and concerns.

Notably, there are only modest partisan differences in views of the impact of free trade agreements on the country and people’s personal finances. About six-in-ten independents (62%) and Democrats (58%) say free trade agreements have been good for the U.S., as do 53% of Republicans. Nearly half of independents (47%), 42% of Democrats and 39% of Republicans say their family’s finances have been helped by free trade agreements.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/05/27/free-trade-agreements-seen-as-good-for-u-s-but-concerns-persist/

I don't know what to make of TPP but as usual, DU is so far over the deep end it's impossible to take much of it seriously.

[azmom]

55. Yep, and there is always money for war and bailing out

Their rich friends.

[Fred Sanders]

58. What war has Obama been involved in, versus prevented, as I did not fall asleep these last 6 years?

[KelleyKramer]

75. For starters.. Lybia

And Obama screemed for a war in Syria, didnt work out but he tried

If you will remember, around the same time Obama was calling for war in Syria, here at home he was proposing to cut Social Security

And of course Iraq and Afghan.

He also has killed a lot of people with drones in Yemen

Are you awake now?

[Fred Sanders]

86. If you are going to make such huge stretches, at least spell the countries names right.

[ananda]

57. Actually, Obama was Republican on this.

No obstructionism to face, iow.

[Autumn]

66. That little line has always been BS and plenty of us said so all along.

Any President can get things done if they want things done. Look at Bush, he did whatever he wanted with the help of plenty of democrats. I can't recommend your OP enough. He finally found his comfortable shoes, too bad it was to walk with the republicans.

[YOHABLO]

73. How many of these Dems who voted for it, get summoned to the White House before the vote?

Maybe we should check the log-ins. That's not classified is it?

[Omaha Steve]

82. Or The Employee Free Choice Act

Hunter Ribarchak, 7, rides on the Iron Workers of America's float during the September 1, 2008 Labor Day parade in Pittsburgh, PA.
By David Madland and Karla Walter | March 11, 2009

https://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/labor/news/2009/03/11/5814/the-employee-free-choice-act-101/

Download this fact sheet (pdf)
The freedom to form a union is a democratic right that is under attack. Too many workers are prevented from freely choosing to band together in a union to bargain collectively with their employer on workplace issues.

More than half of all workers in the United States say they would vote to join a union if they could, but union membership in the private sector is less than 8 percent today—down from one-third of private sector workers in the middle of the 20th century—because existing laws make forming a union a Herculean task that few want to undertake.

The Employee Free Choice Act is a sensible reform that would protect workers’ right to join together in unions and make it harder for management to threaten workers seeking to organize a union, but conservatives are waging war against the bill.

The Employee Free Choice Act will restore balance to the union election process by allowing workers the choice to organize a union through a simple majority sign-up process—a system that works well at the small number of workplaces that choose to permit it, raising penalties when the law is violated and promoting productive first contract negotiations with a mediation and arbitration option.

FULL story at link.

[davidpdx]

84. I'm not happy about it and think the whole thing is BS

I know you are over there in Japan and they (I believe) are going to be one of the countries in the initial negotiations. Korea has opted out for now, but if an agreement is reached and it is ratified, there will be pressure here to join.

Fuck, there goes all my god damn torrents. They are going to start sending in the fucking storm troopers for copyright violations once the TPP gets going.

Time to buy another multi-terabyte drive and download shit faster.

[zentrum]

85. There's no comparison at all.

The Repubs totally supported the TPP. His only fight was with Democrats and his own base.

[d_legendary1]

87. Obama is being greased by the same slimeballs who are greasing the GOP

Obama did not fight for the TPP. They simply paid off the turncoats who would vote along with the Republicans. Bill "Sell Out" Nelson and Debbie What'shername Shmuckz aren't interested in Democracy anymore. They just want to feather their nests and live the good life.