Check and see if you have any local traitor memorials in your city...

[Humanist_Activist]

In my city(St. Louis), here's what happened:

https://twitter.com/LauraKHettiger/status/613711699598778368/photo/1

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/workers-clean-spray-paint-off-confederate-memorial-in-st-louis/article_392c28b0-5c12-5a68-8300-6ffe627d111e.html

Here's more detail of the Monument:

http://www.forestparkstatues.org/confederate-memorial/

Its been controversial since it has been erected, and now new calls to move it or tear it down.

http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/columns/joe-holleman/should-confederate-memorial-be-removed-from-forest-park/article_ba334819-f41c-53c3-854f-614bbcaa0d8c.html

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2015/06/23/confederate-memorial-debate-in-forest-park/29148043/

What's interesting is that this monument is basically a propaganda tool, this is what's inscribed on it:

[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]To the Memory of the Soldiers and Sailors of the Southern Confederacy.

Who fought to uphold the right declared by the pen of Jefferson and achieved by the sword of Washington. With sublime self sacrifice they battled to preserve the independence of the states which was won from Great Britain, and to perpetuate the constitutional government which was established by the fathers.

Actuated by the purest patriotism they performed deeds of prowess such as thrilled the heart of mankind with admiration. Full in the front of war they stood and displayed a courage so superb that they gave a new and brighter luster to the annals of valor. History contains no chronicle more illustrious than the story of their achievements; and although, worn out by ceaseless conflict and overwhelmed by numbers, they were finally forced to yield, their glory, on brightest pages penned by poets and by sages shall go sounding down the ages.

Pure, unadulterated propaganda, these traitors really wanted history to judge them kindly. Let's not oblige them, shall we?

In contrast, also in Forest Park are three statues honoring Union soldiers and politicians, with much simpler inscriptions, such as this one:

http://www.thecivilwarmuse.com/index.php?page=franz-sigel-statue

[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]To remind future generations of the heroism of the German-American patriots of St. Louis and vicinity in the Civil War of 1861 to 1865.

I have a direct ancestor who served as one of the many German-American volunteers in the Union Army during the civil war. I find the traitor's memorial to be a direct insult to their sacrifice. It doesn't belong.

[malthaussen]

1. No, but we do have a statue of George Brinton McClellan.

In conscious imitation of Cicero, I wondered aloud one afternoon why we had a statue of him, and a helpful citizen felt compelled to inform me that he was from Pennsylvania.

OTOH, one could argue that his bumbling battle at Antietam won the war (thanks to enabling Lincoln to issue the Emancipation Proclamation), so maybe it's okay he has a statue.

-- Mal

[Humanist_Activist]

2. I live about a couple of miles from Grant's Trail and Grant's farm...

Ulysses S. Grant used to live in St. Louis, and its a big tourist attraction here.

[malthaussen]

4. So did Sherman.

In fact, they were both in St. Louis when Lyon took out the Confederate volunteer camp, but both abstained from interfering in what they considered State business. (Have just been reading the memoirs of Grant and Sherman, so this stuck in my head)

-- Mal

[B2G]

3. I just love a good witch hunt! nt

[Logical]

5. You disagree???? Nt

[B2G]

9. Where is this going to stop?

Over the past 2 days I've seen remarks about tearing down monuments, renaming streets, military bases and landmarks, bulldozing Confederate graves, "punishing the south"...essentially propositions to wipe out civil war history in general.

Yes, I disagree with that.

[Humanist_Activist]

10. That shit should be in museums, we should not be publicly honoring traitors.

This isn't about erasing history, its about keeping it in proper context. I don't see us erecting statues of Hitler any time soon, and he was responsible for the deaths of far fewer Americans than Jefferson Davis and his cohorts.

[former9thward]

12. Why don't you start in D.C.?

There is a statue of Jefferson Davis there. The First family has never said a word about it.

[B2G]

13. Looks like DC will need to be renamed as well

Seeing as how Washington owned slaves...

[Humanist_Activist]

15. I'm sorry, did Washington declare war against the United States?

Do you have a point?

[B2G]

16. Is this about slavery and black oppression

or are you suddenly enraged about the civil war in general?

Now you're enraged about the "treason"?

[Humanist_Activist]

22. To be honest, its both, and I always had strong opinions about it...

what pisses me off the most are the "lost cause" people who romanticize the Antebellum South as if slavery wasn't so bad, or the culture was worth protecting. Here's a big fat clue, it wasn't, isn't, and there's nothing to be proud of there.

There's so much pride in white southerners about their "heritage", all I can do is shake my head at that bullshit.

[randys1]

27. USA has a long history of murder and destruction. Some are too immature to see that.

They will want to do anything to avoid the truth.

[Humanist_Activist]

44. People don't want to make others aware of their flaws, look at the whitewashing...

being done in Texas. Its revisionist history.

The thing with Washington is that he was a bad man who also ensured our country's independence. So we name things after him for the good things he did, but also recognize he was a slaveholder who killed natives by the thousands during the war.

[HappyMe]

17. George Washington owned slaves.

That is the point.

The whole point of getting rid of that flag is the fact that it is a symbol of racism today.

Getting rid of monuments seems like a feel good thing. It won't end racism. Ending racism starts at home.

[Humanist_Activist]

45. We don't put up monuments of Washington lauding that it was GOOD that he kept slaves....

there's a difference there.

We have monuments, such as the one located only a few miles from me mentioned in my OP that do just that, but in faintly coded language about "independence of states" or "state's rights/sovereignty" etc. First, they practically advocate for treason, which is bad enough, but also honor the idea of the "lost cause" a nation founded on white supremacy and the perpetuation of slavery.

[Humanist_Activist]

14. Perhaps they should, that thing doesn't belong.

I'm sorry, did you think you were making some salient point?

That man, and his government, was responsible for the worst disaster in American history. Why the fuck is there a statue of him there?

[former9thward]

18. He was a small actor.

He was not responsible for "the worst disaster in American history". Slavery as a economic institution was. So you are going to have to rename the state of Washington and D.C. and every other thing named after the slave owners. To be consistent anyway ....

[Humanist_Activist]

19. Many other nations had slavery, and were able to peacefully transition to abolish it...

the British Empire being an example of that.

The fact is that the South seceded to keep an institution that, at best, wasn't going to be under threat for probably a good 10-15 years, with a possibility of peaceful, gradual manumission with compensation being implemented. People such as Jefferson Davis decided to fight a war to preserve it into perpetuity for white supremacy. They could have avoided the war, but no, they went nuts and SC seceded and fired on Fort Sumter, and now, even today, their descendants claim they are victims of aggression!

[oneshooter]

37. Would you support the bulldozing and destruction of confederate Graves? n/t

[quickesst]

25. it's not going to stop...

... until the hate-filled frenzy builds to the max and someone finally says it... Genocide. If you think about it, the only way to erase any memory of the south and its participation in the Civil War is through genocide. I am a liberal, and I am a Democrat, but I am also proud to have been born in the south. I will be among the ones who are wiped out. Those who won't be wiped out will be those who capitulate to the self-righteous. The very same attitude that they attribute to Southerners during and after the civil war in respect as to their proclaimed superiority over slaves is the same attitude that non southerners display toward the southern born now. Lincoln's army did some pretty despicable things during that war, but people are too afraid to talk about it lest they be accused of being racist, and not unlike the right wing, they will do their best to hammer someone into submission until their narrative of history is accepted.

[Humanist_Activist]

7. What witch hunt? We have a propaganda piece that was erected by...

Confederate sympathizers a little over a hundred years ago. This "memorial" doesn't belong.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

6. Here in Tucson we have a statue and a park devoted to Pancho Villa.

How cool is that?

[azmom]

8. Very cool!!

[Starry Messenger]

11. I'm in CA

I don't think we have any Confederate memorials. We do have statues of Fr. Junipero Serra all over, and those are not without controversy.

[Paulie]

20. Ronald Regan Highway

[Humanist_Activist]

21. He was a political opponent, not sure of your point?

Are you seriously comparing partisanship in politics with the civil war?

[jwirr]

23. During the Civil War era Missouri had a civil war of their own. Genealogy in MO is a walk down

the feuds between pro and con over civil rights. After watching the Furguson MO protests and learning how St. Louis is so divided I am wondering if that war is still on.

I think your state may have more trouble removing the memorials because of the neighbor vs neighbor war of that era than because of the overall war.

[Autumn]

24. Ronald Reagan Memorial Highway. Not right in the city but close by.

[Prism]

26. People who seek to scrub history scare me

Tear the flag down from statehouses by all means. But this new mood demanding that a vast swath of American history be bulldozed? No, thank you.

What a creepy authoritarian impulse.

[Humanist_Activist]

29. I'm sorry, strawman much? What the fuck is the purpose of monuments honoring traitors...

not acknowledging they exist, but actually praising them for fighting a war to preserve slavery against the United States. Can you give any justification for the existence of such monuments?

[Prism]

33. It's our nation's collective history

Ah well. Fortunately by next week we'll have some new pointless cause. There's no use expending energy arguing this right now.

[oneshooter]

39. Would you support the bulldozing and destruction of confederate Graves? n/t

[Humanist_Activist]

43. Don't understand the relation? Graves are different.

I would say we keep them where they are for cost purposes, even in veteran grave sites. But public monuments and memorials that laud the ideals of the Confederacy, or attempt to rewrite what it actually stood for shouldn't be on public land.

[NuclearDem]

31. Yeah, you know, because without those statues honoring the Wehrmacht

we'd completely forget about Nazi Germany.

[Prism]

34. The Nazi comparison fails on every level

Because the Civil War was about many things, and both the North and South were complicit in how it came to be. The nation as a whole bears responsibility, and many on the North committed atrocities who are celebrated today.

I'm not Southern, nor am I particularly interested in Southern heritage. But the desire to clean up history and have the correct narrative put forward is so fucking creepy and dangerous on every level.

So of course authoritarians are all for it.

They always are.

[NuclearDem]

41. So, statues and memorials honoring the Wehrmacht are alright...

...because of Dresden and Versailles.

Brilliant.

[struggle4progress]

36. +

[SwankyXomb]

28. Lots of pro-Confederate talking points all over the site today.

Since when did this place become Dixie Underground?

[Blue_In_AK]

30. I don't think so.

We have kind of a generic veterans' memorial and a nice memorial to Martin Luther King, and some memorials to local luminaries, but we never had much to do with the Confederacy.

[Avalux]

32. Well, "Confederate Heroes Day" is an official holiday in Texas.

https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/holidays.html

That needs to go, and maybe it finally will now. But this place is loaded with confederate names, statues and references.
Yesterday, The University of Texas confederate statues were vandalized:



Joaquin Castro is leading the call for their removal from school grounds. Dixie Flag Co. in San Antonio has finally decided to stop making and selling confederate flags:

http://www.kens5.com/story/news/2015/06/23/dixie-flag-discontinues-sale-of-confederate-flag/29191463/

I don't think efforts to remove these symbols of oppression will make a whole lot of difference in the minds of people who have a strong connection to them through family pride. I'm sure I'll continue to see that guy driving around town with a huge confederate flag waving off the back of his truck, along with a Don't Tread on Me flag.

I grew up in PA, my German ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War, fought in the Civil War, and had the unfortunate luck to own a huge farm in Gettysburg, right on the battlefield. It was destroyed during the fighting.

I have a completely different perspective, and living here in Texas and experiencing loyalty to the confederacy is strange for me.

[struggle4progress]

35. I think we have a confederate veterans memorial in front of the old county courthouse

And about a hundred years ago (WWI era?), a Unity Monument was erected at the site where Johnston surrendered to Sherman



A marker for the planned Jefferson Davis National Highway can supposedly be found somewhere around here but nobody seems to know where it should be

[oneshooter]

40. Would you support the bulldozing and destruction of confederate Graves? n/t

[struggle4progress]

42. I don't want to forget real history: it helps us understand where we were and how we got here

I suspect many here just chuckle inside when passing the confederate soldier monument downtown. Here's what the city council looks like today



This is currently one of the bluest towns in the country. We merged the city and county school systems to end the white-flight problem.

The historical truth isn't always pretty. A few decades ago, when I told some friends I was moving down here, they told me I would love Hayti, one of the most successful AA business districts in the US. In fact, the state was in the process of running a highway right through the middle of Hayti, and little remains now.

Some stories of change are inspiring

https://www.aptonline.org/catalog.nsf/vLinkTitle/UNLIKELY+FRIENDSHIP+AN

A few miles down the road, in Chapel Hill, there's a confederate soldier monument on campus -- but two or three blocks away there's also this:

[seveneyes]

38. Karmageddon is coming to your town soon ...