General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRE: that TPP vote. Does THIS sound familiar?
"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter."
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)just to shine a light onto how goddamn insane the hysterics over TPP have gotten.
Edited to add: I knew GD wouldn't let me down!
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)What's worse: the TPP or the Holocaust?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026898908
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Nobody "compared" any politician, let alone Obama, to hitler. Using The Holocaust. To make a point is disgusting.
See the post that spawned is garbage.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026898831
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jun 24, 2015, 10:52 PM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Flamebait (without even the possibility of meritorious discussion), thus explicitly against DU rules.
Also, a massive Godwin Fail.
Hide.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is a sick anti-Semitic OP.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
I was not the alerter. I was one of the 'Hide' votes on the jury.
-app
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I know you're enjoying the gloat, but sorry if I can't provide much angst to satisfy you.
People who see the TPP and think "Hitler" are . . . the kind of people I hope don't own firearms.
G_j
(40,372 posts)that was disgusting
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)in front of them.
You know those wingnuts that compared Obamacare to slavery?
Same difference here
G_j
(40,372 posts)Carrying on that sort of derogatory conversation about other DUers IS disgusting. And that was the sole purpose of your OP. Too bad you are proud of it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The OP's excerpted text:
The original text at the link:
The OP and her type quite clearly see Obama playing the same role as Adolf Hitler. Her editing of the original text proves that.
I hope the Secret Service is doing its job.
I understand why you are probably offended by this OP. It's your right. That doesn't make people opposed to the TPP crazy,
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But, leaving Hitler out of the discussion is probably a good idea to argue against it.
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)It's not like the very definition of fascism is the complete merging of corporate and state power and interests.
And it's not like the top government executive and putative leader of one party (Obama) didn't suddenly find himself quite able to work with a vast majority of the other party, on this one corporate issue after basically six years of this same Repub majority basically calling him the N-word over and over.
And it's not like Obama and the Repubs and the spineless Dems too all bent over for this corporate coup despite some rousing opposition from the grass roots.
And it's not like a near total corporate media blackout of the TPP, TPA, and the details of these 'agreements' made even generating awareness into a major battle.
Oh, wait, it was exactly like all that.
Think I'll go oil the guns...
-app
dgauss
(883 posts)This happens so often, even on this board. Of course the OP didn't make the argument that Obama is Hitler. That was a made up statement for the purpose of having a ridiculous statement to argue against and ridicule. The quote from the OP was from a book by Milton Mayor that had to do with the complicity, lack of awareness and indifference of a society, even during the greatest atrocity in modern history.
I think a reasonable point that can be taken is that if people can somehow be lulled into that kind of complicity and made indifferent even in that extreme historical situation, it can happen in less extreme situations.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and Nazism. Direct. Complete with references to how people identifying with the leader was essential.
Imagine if a wingnut columnist, call him Joe Blowhard. had made this comparison with regard to Obamacare.
My reaction would be "Joe Blowhard is a fucking nutjob."
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)It's not like the very definition of fascism is the complete merging of corporate and state power and interests.
And it's not like the top government executive and putative leader of one party (Obama) didn't suddenly find himself quite able to work with a vast majority of the other party, on this one corporate issue after basically six years of this same Repub majority basically calling him the N-word over and over.
And it's not like Obama and the Repubs and the spineless Dems too all bent over for this corporate coup despite some rousing opposition from the grass roots.
And it's not like a near total corporate media blackout of the TPP, TPA, and the details of these 'agreements' made even generating awareness into a major battle.
Oh, wait, it was exactly like all that.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)be offended that anyone would suggest that was going on.
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)Not me. I'm enjoying this discussion.
There are remarkable parallels between our current state of affairs and past fascist regimes where corporate and state interests merged quite closely. I'm simply remarking upon them as "things that make ya go 'hmmm...'"
-app
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)You're on board with the whole Obama is a Nazi thing.
Thanks for the honesty.
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)How dare someone with such poor reading comprehension consume so much of my time?!?1?
I mean, five minutes of my time arguing on the internet is worth at least eleventy billion dollars. How else am I to bribe my way to a 'seat at the table?'
-app
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I also recognize it's not possible that both of us are sane and perceive the world in a rational way.
Last word is yours. Cheers.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Thank you.
I trusted that most astute folks would be able to see the processes by which people are lulled into accepting a loss of democracy, and certainly Meyer's book is such a classic on the issue by now.
Lancero
(3,015 posts)The only one who has compared Obama and Hitler is... you.
This topic isn't saying that Obama is Hitler, and the bulk of posters get that. It's simply showing that how, in recent years, our country has started to adopt the 'logic' that a past country once used.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to the rise of Adolf Hitler.
Lancero
(3,015 posts)You notice the bolded part in the OP?
"it could not be released because of national security"
This is what the comparison is. The TPP hasn't been made publicly available, with a number of government officials citing 'national security' as the reason.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-in-administration-consider-tpp-aimed-mostly-at-china/2015/05/18/599ccc78-fb2e-11e4-9ef4-1bb7ce3b3fb7_story.html
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Check out the excerpted version in the OP with the original.
Lancero
(3,015 posts)Oh, right. The same comparison can be made with other Presidents.
You take offense to it because of who the statements were first applied to because you cannot find some way to say that the points themselves are invalid. Everything in that excerpt - From the 'governing in secret', to 'being declared important to national security' to people agreeing with it due to trust in a person... All of this applies to the TPP.
This excerpt has been used many times in the past, in relation to other Presidents.
So, as I said before - It's not saying that Obama is Hitler. It's just showing similarities between differing governments.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)"Showing similarities between differing governments" (I.e. the Obama administration and the Third Reich) and explicitly comparing the role played by Barack Obama to that played by Adolf Hitler isn't comparing Obama to Hitler?
Sorry, that's nonsense. The OP wasn't about a generic US president, it was about Obama and the TPP.
In my opinion, this OP is no different than this:
I hope the secret service is up to its job. The far right, the LaRouchie left ....
Lancero
(3,015 posts)The comparison has been made to other presidents, not just a specific one.
[img][/img]
Serious question though - If this OP is comparing Obama to Hitler, it'd be extremely inappropriate. So, why haven't you alerted on it yet?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)GD is very LaRouchie these days.
There's always been this element here, but they've been cautious about letting their freak flag fly.
I'll save the alerts for race-based attacks (which have also picked up again)
Lancero
(3,015 posts)Didn't seem to matter much to you, the 'Freak Element', when it came to that.
What changed?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The OP's excerpted text:
The original text at the link:
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)No, I need not.
-app
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The OP's excerpted text:
The original text at the link:
hatrack
(59,593 posts)Bye now.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The OP's excerpted text:
The original text at the link:
hatrack
(59,593 posts)But thanks for the guidance!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)subject of conversation?
zeemike
(18,998 posts)Any reference at all will be cause to dismiss it all.
We must make America safe for what looks like fascism but you must not call it that...or it's Hitler.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Thinks I believe in my heart Obama dons a Subway shirt every morning and crafts a few shit sandwiches before heading to the Oval Office.
After all; I said it, so it MUST be my core belief.
For some, the Cult of Personality dictates that anything less than praise and adulation is tantamount to blasphemy.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Sorry, but some truths just need a little levity....especially after a long day.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)A story about the rise of fascist Germany. I think it is extremely relevant to everything we have witnessed here in the USA post 9/11/01.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)It is a disconnect from the real problems that we face.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)we are supposed to see this as an honest attempt to help us.
The quote is telling us that is exactly what has happened in the past and no one saw it coming. My guess is that when we get the final copy to read it will be written in legal language that is impossible for the regular people to understand it so once again we will be voting blind.
I am not happy with any of this.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Note the edit to the original the OP made--she quite clearly sees a little black mustache on Obama's lip:
The OP's excerpted text:
The original text at the link:
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)OP does not reflect the realities of how we got where we are today in this political
mess. It is dishonest in that it speaks to the end game results, it does not speak to
our democratic process which began to unravel long before Obama became president.
We already know more than enough about TPP, we sounded the alarm but it proved
not to be enough..that is the problem..we were not silent, we have
not believed we are safe and secure.
I am perfectly fine with and welcome warnings, but this OP is off the mark on many
levels and it is important in my view to be careful how one uses excerpts such
as this one.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)The book is an outstanding example of how people begin to accept more and more propaganda until it is just normal to them.
Not noticing until it is too late to matter.