Every American is a socialist.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

Will you drink tap water today? You are a socialist.

Will you use indoor plumbing? You are a socialist.

Will you use a public road? You are a socialist.

Do you have a mailbox? You are a socialist.

Do you rely on the fire department? You are a socialist.

Do you believe in Social Security? You are a socialist.

Do you believe in Medicare? You are a socialist.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. I agree , and even people who don't, are Socialists until it's time to share, then they're

Libertarians .

[Mnpaul]

2. Do you support the troops?

that part of the military can also be considered socialist

[Admiral Loinpresser]

6. The military is the most socialistic

institution in American society. from cradle to grave.

[procon]

3. Republicans love socialism too!

Oh, they hate the word, but they love the benefits when it flows upward and into their pockets. They may hate the idea of a 'transfer of wealth' when it goes to groups they perceive as unworthy, but even Republicans embrace socialism when money from impoverished taxpayers end up the pockets of the ultra rich.

They are all for a reverse socialism that takes money away from the working class taxpayers to subsidize a higher profit rate for their investments in already wealthy mega corporations. When it comes to propping up their "free market" ventures, Republicans love socialism that diverts public funds into their private schools, prisons, and all the other state infrastructure holdings they've bought.

Republicans hate socialism when its used to uplift working class poor people, but when it comes to taking money from those same folks to bail out big banks and giant corporations, and giving free perks and financial benefits to make rich folks even richer, then socialism is just fine for America's millionaires.

[brooklynite]

4. Socialism: Noun

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy

Words have meaning.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

7. Your definition is outmoded.

It certainly has historical, academic and theoretical value, but I don't know anybody who often uses the term in that sense these days. First of all, "social ownership of the means of production" prescribes the popular meaning far beyond its usage in America since FDR at least. Social security was attacked as socialism when it was first proposed, yet it has nothing to do with controlling the means of production.

Words have meaning. And those meanings evolve by usage.

[former9thward]

5. Please read a book on socialism.

You will find none of those things are socialist.

The Romans had indoor plumbing. Were they a socialist empire? Social Security and Medicare were invented in the 1880s Germany by Bismarck who was the greatest enemy of socialism of that century. They are not socialist.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

8. Please read a book on linguistics.

The meanings of words evolve and expand over time. The Roman empire was not a socialist empire, but its uses of collective wealth were a decisive advantage over the peoples they conquered. For example, good roads, aqueducts and a professional army were all important elements in how they were able to achieve the status of "empire."

Are you really suggesting that the term "socialist" has not been applied to American Social Security and Medicare? If you are indeed suggesting that, perhaps you should also read a book on American history.

[former9thward]

10. The only people who have ever called SS socialist

are far right conservatives. No one else. I don't take the meaning of words based on what far right conservatives say.

[daleanime]

27. Are you really calling me....

a "far right conservative".

[former9thward]

33. I never addressed you in any post.

[daleanime]

56. So, I'm not a person.....

who's called SS socialistic.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

32. Newsweek cover, 2009:

"We are all socialists now."

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/newsweek-cover-we-are-all-socialists-now-65702362.html

"Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_Speaks_Out_Against_Socialized_Medicine

Or how about that reactionary Lawrence O'Donnell, who explicitly referred to SS as a socialist program (at 4:53 of the linked video below)?

[former9thward]

34. Lawrence O'Donnell needs to read a book on socialism also.

I did not click on the link because I have no interest in what a talking head seeking publicity has to say. Yes RR is a far right conservative.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

36. So are you retracting your claim made at post #10? n/t

[former9thward]

38. No.

Glib quotes don't do for me. Maybe you take your ideology from Newsweek covers but I don't.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

42. Is Lawrence O'Donnell a far right conservative? n/t

[former9thward]

43. He is not a serious economist.

In fact he is not an economist at all.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

47. Now you are changing the subject.

Your claim in post #10 had nothing to do with "serious economists." Your claim was directed to all of humanity except "far right conservatives." You claimed no one else used the term "socialism" with respect to SS. I disproved your assertion.

So for a second time I ask you: do you withdraw your claim in post #10?

[former9thward]

49. For the second time, No.

Do you want a third or fourth time? If you think a sensation seeking magazine cover or a glib comment by a talking head counts for something, cool. I don't.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

51. "Glib comment" is a cop-out because you're wrong

and you don't even have the maturity to admit a factually incorrect assertion. The reality is that the term socialism has become much broader than any definition constrained to the "means of production."

You don't want to admit that, so I will leave it to the audience by inspection of the evidence presented on this thread.

[sjk.fly4ever]

9. Every American is a socialist.

I disagree. I'm not a socialist, I'm an american.

Stephan.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Are you sure? nt

[Rex]

12. Do you pay taxes?

[former9thward]

35. Taxes are socialism?

LOL

[Admiral Loinpresser]

39. The use of taxes for collective benefit,

such as the Medicare program, is indeed referred to as socialism.

[former9thward]

40. You are simply making up your own language.

Credible economists do not call the Medicare program socialism.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

44. No. Credible polical commentators do call

Medicare a socialist program.

[former9thward]

45. Nope, they don't.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

48. So Lawrence O'Donnell is not credible? n/t

[former9thward]

50. Not when he is making flip comments.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

52. See post #51. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

14. Do you drive on the highway?

[MohRokTah]

18. Damn, people claiming to know what socialism is have NO FUCKING CLUE what socialism is.

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.

You are only a socialist if you believe the government should run all factories and any other means of production.

[Starry Messenger]

21. I'm a member of CPUSA

Cool your jets. Socializing the costs of public resources is also socialism. That is a form of social ownership. We used to have private for-profit toll roads. We largely don't now, because they create libertarian chaos.

[MohRokTah]

24. Cool your jets

The commons have been a part of capitalist society for hundreds of years. It's nothing new in capitalist societies.

Socialism is well defined and it is not how you define it.



And now that you have admitted to being a member of the CPUSA, you are no ally of mine and I shall now put you on ignore.

When it comes to Communism and the CP, I AM A JFK DEMOCRAT!

[Starry Messenger]

26. You might want to read up on some history.

LOL. Admitted forsooth. I'm not sure about the crack about JFK. He pardoned the last of the Smith Act victims. Well, bye.

[daleanime]

29. No, you don't find the definition of that word..,..

to be convenient for your purpose.

But don't worry, we love you anyway.

[MohRokTah]

30. Actually, it is you and everybody else in this thread who are using the word incorrectly

that redefine it to be convenient for heir purposes.

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.

[daleanime]

31. I don't have any heirs....

[Admiral Loinpresser]

41. So using "democratic socialism"

to refer to Scandanavian countries is incorrect? I thought everybody did that. Is it possible that you are right and everybody else in the world is wrong?

[immoderate]

54. The dispute rests in the equivocation between "general" socialism and "special" socialism...

.. which is just plain "socialism," IOW, workers own the means of production.

Depending on who you're hanging out with, "socialist" is loosely applied to any government service or government administered function, and I would call that social democrat, or democratic socialist, and my socialist friends would assert that it's not socialism at all.

Like most arguments, it's about the meaning of words.

---imm

[Skittles]

60. Fox News tells them all about socialism

yes, they are unbelievably stupid, as that poster showcases

[former9thward]

37. The Romans had a highway system.

And no, they were not socialists.

[WinkyDink]

19. Citizenship has nothing to do with one's political leanings---if they have Free Will and a brain.

[Skittles]

59. that really went WAAAAAY over your head, didn't it?

[JI7]

61. USA USA USA

[MohRokTah]

13. I refuse to turn over the means of production to the state.

Ergo, I am not a socialist.

[Rex]

17. That's communism.

So wait...you don't pay taxes?

[EX500rider]

57. No it's not..

Socialism is government owning the means of production.
Communism is the government owning everything.

[Rex]

15. If you pay taxes you are a socialist.

Anything for the 'greater good' is socalism and we all participate, although without intent for helping others, in it everyday due to our own vested interest in surviving.

Adam Smith was a socialist. He created the idea of a social safety net (brought about by the mere act of day to day survival) that we enjoy to this day.

[PowerToThePeople]

16. Those things do not make a person a socialist

Belief that those things are run well and more things should work the same way might make you a socialist.

[MohRokTah]

20. .

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. Social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy

credit unions?

[Rex]

25. Paying taxes.

Delivering groceries to the grocery store. It is about a lot more then what is obvious on the surface.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. yes

[Rex]

23. I get what you are saying and in a away that is correct.

I see people still get social ownership and state ownership mixed up.

[Scuba]

46. For those who erroneously argue that Social Security and Medicare aren't socialism ...

[MohRokTah]

55. So now Republicans get to define what is and isn't socialism?

That makes the TPP SOCIALIST!!!! Simply because the SOCIALIST OBAMA PROPOSES IT!!!

[Admiral Loinpresser]

62. Socialism is about pooling resources for the common good.

TPP is not socialism in any sense of the word. It is a corporatist scheme to maximize profits at the expense of workers and the environment.

[redstateblues]

53. So Bernie calling himself a socialist

Will be a big plus in the GE?

[orpupilofnature57]

58. People are calling him a Socialist, he calls himself Senior Senator from Vermont, Independent .

The only shot he's got is if people use their eyes and ears instead of that artificial sensory gland brought on by Media, Platitudes that polarize, inflection instead of Content .