Message To Fundies Decrying The Supreme Court Decision As An Infringement On Their Religious Freedom

[napkinz]

[font size="3"]Marriage Equality Does Not Affect Religious Liberty[/font]

June 28, 2015
by Julian Drury

Religious Conservatives love playing the victim, but with the recent marriage equality ruling, their rights are not being infringed upon

-snip-

... conservatives are trying to frame the issue as religion being infringed upon. The issue is clear by the SCOTUS ruling, however; no religious group is being forced to wed gay people. Churches are not forced by law to wed gay couples. The SCOTUS ruling merely deals with marriage certificates, the legal documents declaring someone married. Churches that do not condone gay marriage do not have to wed gay couples. However, state and local officials have to legally abide by and fulfill marriage contracts if applied for by gay couples.

The recent ruling does not threaten anyone’s religious rights. If you are a Christian and you don’t agree with gay marriage, you are not obligated to have a gay wedding. If you are a church that does not condone gay marriage, you do not have to perform gay weddings. If you are a Christian and are opposed to gay marriage, your rights to bigotry are not threatened at all in this matter.

Marriage equality is purely a secular and practical matter that had to be settled legally. While conservatives scream about “religious liberty” and “God’s law” being attacked, they should be reminded of the First Amendment. We cannot base our laws on religious law, and in no way can or should we take religion into account when denying citizens their secular legal rights. No one’s religion is threatened legally here.

If you morally disagree with the SCOTUS decision, then that is your choice. If your religion puts you in disagreement, that is your choice. But you have no legal right to enforce your religious doctrine on others by denying them their secular rights to marry. Marriage is as much a secular right of society as it is a religious right-of-passage.

read more: http://quietmike.org/2015/06/28/marriage-equality-does-not-affect-religious-liberty/

[Faux pas]

1. Kickin'

[treestar]

2. So true, the biggest twist of logic ever

They can go on living by their values.

They are merely revealing that their values tell them they have a right to control other people who don't subscribe to them.

[napkinz]

13. exactly ...

[calimary]

17. Excellent, Excellent, Excellent!!!!!

This stuff is just SUPERB for re-framing the issue. When it's clarified and easy to remember and easy to drop into a conversation when/if needed, so much the better. That's why sloganeering is so important. Stupid and manipulative and superficial. But still important, unfortunately. Catchy slogans and turns-of-phrase are easy to remember. If they're easy to remember, they're easy to repeat. Particularly if they're clever or funny. And the longer they stand, especially if you're using them now and then, the more you unconsciously internalize them and they become familiar and comfortable and preferred.

Having that hate-rag flying high, plastered across walls, emblazoned on everything from license plates to wearables of every kind does nothing but render it commonplace, familiar, no-big-deal, something you become accustomed to, part of the wallpaper of life that you just take for granted and don't give a second thought about. It becomes comfortable, therefore, by default, acceptable and accepted.

And I'm sorry, but NOBODY should be allowed to become comfortable with that damn flag.

It should become something that's as taboo as the utterance of the "n-word." And NOT something one flaunts in polite company.

[napkinz]

31. "Catchy slogans and turns-of-phrase are easy to remember"

And this one -- that you're not being oppressed when another gains rights you've always had -- expresses a simple TRUTH ... which can't be said for the slogans put out by the far right. (The far right has become adept over the years at disseminating lies with catchy slogans.)

[napkinz]

48. I came across another great one ...

[calimary]

50. See, there's another good one. We need as many of these as possible.

And not just for the marriage equality issue, either.

The neat thing about a graphic like this is it really kills with the vast chunk of humanity that processes information visually. Nice bright colors and the whole beautiful rainbow thing from nature and all that. BUT ALSO the message. It's short and clever. Which means it's easier to burn into the brain. You'll be able to remember it next time the conversation steers toward this topic. I came up with one bit of blah-blah-blah a few days back while yakking with a neighbor and he cited it as being clever and something he'll have to remember cuz he liked it! "That's very good!" - he said. Well, that's very good because it's MEMORABLE. And when stuff sticks in the memory it's easier to haul out and share - and get extra points for cleverness. People like that. Makes 'em feel smart and and clever and with it, when they can repeat something they heard that was clever. And it must have been good because they REMEMBERED it. It stuck in their mind. Makes 'em feel smart and slick and cool and on-top-of-it-all. People like to feel smart.

People like to be amused. They like someone who makes them laugh. I can't tell you how many comedians I interviewed when I was still working and covering Hollywood - who told me they were led toward comedy because it was a great way to avoid getting beaten up on the playground. The neighborhood bullies would tell the wimp or nerd who'd wisecracked well - "y'know - you're okay!" And then you don't get beaten up anymore! People will be favorably predisposed when something is catchy and clever.

People like gimmicks. Pet rocks. Pop Rocks! Rubik's Cubes. Sudoku. Smilies. Cool or unusual band merch. Special Ben & Jerry's flavors. The Rolling Stones' "Sticky Fingers" album because the album cover close-up of the crotch of a guy in blue jeans had a workable zipper! Gimmicks. We've got a few of 'em ourselves for my kid's band, and the fans LOVE 'em! Catchy - like riffs in music that you just cannot get outta your head. The chorus everybody can still remember and they go home singing after they saw the new hit musical.

People don't like being wrong. There's the pride thing. Nobody wants to admit it - it's the rare physical or mental or emotional adult who will. Most people are too chicken to admit it. But heck, I can remember back after Watergate - you couldn't pay anyone to admit they'd voted for Nixon. But you know damn well enough people swallowed his shit and voted for him to put him in the White House instead of A) Hubert Humphrey, or four years after that, George McGovern. Hell, look how relentlessly and to what ridiculous extent are the attempts to rewrite the recent history of bush/cheney before our very eyes!

This kinda thing plays well to all those human weaknesses and inclinations, seems to me. And the more of these we have, that are applicable to every and any issue, the better. Because you never know which one is gonna resonate with somebody and just CLINCH that issue for them, or clarify it so perfectly that it's easy to remember and talk about in conversation. That makes it easier to persuade others if the occasion arises, and makes you feel (and look) smart at the same time.

Mind games! Recognize them. Play 'em well. That'll be another little wall of resistance that you may very well finally cut through. That'll be another vote you may well gain for the good guys.

[napkinz]

51. I saw a documentary on John Lennon a couple of years ago

He talked about liberals using the system -- capitalism -- to "sell" their ideas to the people the way business sells products to those same people. I did a search and found more on that subject:

John and Yoko’s first bed-in for peace: Amsterdam

-snip-

... the reporters found Lennon and Ono sitting in their bed, talking about peace and surrounded by signs stating 'Hair Peace' and 'Bed Peace'.

The couple's interviews were reported in newspapers, radio, television, and newsreels worldwide. They received frequent hostility, bemusement and mirth from the rest of the world, but their peace message was nonetheless widely distributed.

We talked to the press. We met people from the Communist countries, people from the West - every country in the world. We gave the press eight hours of every day, every waking hour, to ask every question they wanted to about our position. People said, 'Well, what does this do for peace?' We thought, The other side has war on every day, not only on the news but on the old John Wayne movies and every damn movie you see: war, war, war, war, kill, kill, kill, kill.' We said, 'Let's get some peace, peace, peace, peace on the headlines, just for a change!' So we thought it highly amusing that a lot of the world's headlines on March 25th 1969 were 'honeymoon couple in bed'. Whoopee! Isn't that great news?'

We thought instead of just being 'John and Yoko Get Married', like 'Richard and Liz Get Married', (it should be) 'John and Yoko get married and have a bed-in for peace'. So we would sell our product, which we call 'peace'. And to sell a product you need a gimmick, and the gimmick we thought was 'bed'. And we thought 'bed' because bed was the easiest way of doing it, because we're lazy. It took us a long train of thought of how to get the maximum publicity for what we sincerely believed in, which was peace - and we were part of the peace movement.

http://www.beatlesbible.com/1969/03/25/john-and-yokos-first-bed-in-for-peace/

(As I said in another reply, the far right has become adept over the years at disseminating lies with catchy slogans. We need to get into the "business" of spreading truths with catchy slogans of our own.)

[calimary]

53. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and Yes!!!

Gimmicks, in particular, are like brain candy - especially candy for the lower parts of the brain that kinda grab onto stuff without knowing or realizing. Works on the SUBCONSCIOUS. The best and most G-rated kind of "adult toys." Gimmicks are verbal and visual candy. Cheap sugar candy. Attractive, compelling, alluring. Empty calories but tasty! Easily taken in. Easily absorbed. EASY. You don't even have to work on it. Cuz IT'S working on YOU - and the way you're wired.

[napkinz]

54. here's an example of one of those brilliant gimmicks ... a challenge to oppressed fundies

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55. LIKE this one, napkinz!

Excellent! The persecution complexes with which we're now being nearly suffocated - are just bewildering!

[SoapBox]

3. Totally Kicking and Rec'ing.

[BeanMusical]

4. Kick and R

So true.

[Homer Wells]

5. Keeping this KICKED.

A most concise statement of the TRUTH . This whole idea that the right have, that it persecuting them because they are not permitted to discriminate against others is so Bizarre. I have no idea about their reasoning.

[napkinz]

16. they feel that if they can't impose their beliefs on others, they are being persecuted/oppressed

[Thespian2]

6. K & R!!!!!

I know RWNJ's do not understand the concepts of factual information and secular marriage rights...Thank you for stating the truths that everyone should be aware of...RWNJ heads are still exploding...if two brain cells fire at the same time, a head is bound to explode...

[calimary]

7. And nobody's forcing them to go marry a gay person, either.

Hey fundies - NOBODY is holding a gun to your head and forcing ANY of you to get divorced and go marry somebody of your same gender.

It's like with an abortion.

If you don't want same-sex marriage, THEN FORCRYINGOUTLOUD, DON'T HAVE ONE!!!!!!!!!

[smirkymonkey]

11. Exactly!

I really don't see what their problem is. Honestly, I don't.

[napkinz]

12. ...

[AngryOldDem]

8. They will never get this argument.

Because it doesn't fit their narrative, it doesn't fit their intrinsic fear/hatred of gays, and it challenges them to basically live the true Christian life of not judging others and loving thy neighbor as thyself (the second of the only TWO commands Christ was known to give, by the way).

They'd rather spend all their time concocting ridiculous, improbable scenarios instead of doing more constructive things -- like serving the poor, working for justice...you know, all the things that Christ also told His followers to do.

I'm fed up with the entire lot of them.

[napkinz]

15. sums it up ...

[penndragon69]

9. Opposed to same sex marriage ?

You can move your ass to central Africa, the only place in the world where
YOUR type can still Kill a queer and be praised for it.

Until then sit down and SHUT THE FUCK UP !

[napkinz]

19. it's simple; if you're against same-sex marriage, don't have one

[daleanime]

10. K&R.....

[hifiguy]

14. Marriage has always been a part of civil law.

Judges and justices of the peace have been marrying people in the US from Day One.

Marriage is marriage, a civil and secular contract; a church wedding is something else entirely.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

22. Exactly

The Church doesn't make a marriage legal. Only the marriage LICENSE does that. And you obtain the Marriage License from a GOVERNMENTAL entity. Marriage is, was, and forever shall be a CIVIL CONTRACT.

And anyone who knows anything about Biblical History should know that the Church didn't even PERFORM marriages until about the 1600s, when they realized they could make money by doing so. Up until then, the Church viewed marriage as a CIVIL CONTRACT that the Church should have no part of.

If anyone is interested, there is an incredible series available on YouTube done by the world's foremost Biblical Historian, Diarmaid McCullough, in which he explains the actual HISTORY of the Bible and the historical reasons why Christians believe the things they do today, and how most of the things the hardcore "Christians" believe today aren't rooted in anything found in the Bible. It's a fascinating video to watch if you have about an hour to kill. It's called, "Sex and the Church" and it's by Oxford Historian Diarmaid McCullough. Does a pretty good job of destroying a lot of the myths a lot of "Christians" seem to be clinging to these days.

For those who are interested, here's a link to that video:

[napkinz]

32. conservatives want to protect traditional biblical marriage ... well ...

[Beartracks]

18. I guess the "religious liberty" argument rested on individuals, like Court Clerks.

I haven't read this whole piece, but so far it is Spot. On.

But if you recall, there were recently episodes of Court Clerks or other government employees who raised some kind of "conscientious objection" about having to facilitate the marriage of homosexuals, and these people complained about being "forced" to do it.

Well, "people" aren't "religious organizations" (no more than corporations are people, but hey, that's a different matter altogether!). So, while these individuals may have, in the past, objected or sued or whatever on the basis that they could maybe change their particular state's position on same-sex marriage, now they can't. And they should probably look for another line of work.

Cue the conservatives talking heads bitching about how same-sex marriage is Costing Jobs!!!11!!!

Heck of a week.



===============

[napkinz]

37. Texas attorney general says county clerks can refuse gay couples

Mon Jun 29, 2015

County clerks in Texas who object to gay marriage can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples despite last week's landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling requiring states to allow same-sex marriage, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said on Sunday.

The nation's top court said on Friday that the U.S. Constitution provides same-sex couples the right to wed, handing a victory to the American gay rights movement.

Paxton said in a statement that hundreds of public officials in Texas were seeking guidance on how to implement what he called a lawless and flawed decision by an "activist" court.

The state's attorney general said that while the Supreme Court justices had "fabricated" a new constitutional right, they did not diminish, overrule, or call into question the First Amendment rights to free exercise of religion.

"County clerks and their employees retain religious freedoms that may allow accommodation of their religious objections to issuing same-sex marriage licenses," Paxton wrote, adding that the strength of any such claim would depend on the facts of each case.

read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/29/us-usa-court-gaymarriage-texas-idUSKCN0P900F20150629

[Beartracks]

40. Then U.S. Marshals should be posted at the Clerks' offices...

... like when they had to accompany black children to school to ensure that de-segregation was being enforced.

And I think any Clerk who needs their religious beliefs accommodated should be put on administrative leave until they can be placed in another position within their County. THAT's what accommodation is, NOT refusing to do your job.

=====================

[napkinz]

41. I wonder how Texas will respond ...

Will Gov. Greg Abbott call out the State Guard again as he did a couple of months ago. Will he use the same rhetoric?

"It is important that Texans know their safety, constitutional rights, private property right and civil liberties will not be infringed," this time replacing the words private property and civil liberties with religious liberties?

Will he assert he is defending religious freedom?

[sheshe2]

20. You never fail~

That was pure awesome.

napkinz

[napkinz]

24. thanks sheshe

sheshe

[City Lights]

21. Excellent! nt

[marym625]

23. K&R

[napkinz]

26. :)

marym625

[Cha]

25. EXCELLENT! Mahalo napkinz!

[napkinz]

27. Hey Cha!

it's so simple, yet conservatives just don't get it

[Cha]

28. They are the perfect words to shut down the bigoted whiners.

[napkinz]

29. the bigoted whiners ...

[Cha]

30. Wah wah wah.. sniff sniff blubber blubber.. Bigot tears good for America!

poor baby. lol

[napkinz]

45. :)

[Cha]

46. Kick!

[allan01]

33. ding

plus their beliefs dont match my beliefs . rec . too bad there isnt a emoticon for kick and rec . but i do like this and this my mum once said that the " moral majiorty is either and neither .

[napkinz]

39. a civil matter, a civil right

[AuntPatsy]

34. Kicking

[brooklynite]

35. When a Baker or a Government Clerk denies service to a hetero couple for being previously divorced..

...I'll take their "deeply held religious beliefs" seriously.

(also, no shrimp at the reception).

[napkinz]

42. how does a fundamentalist barber make a living?

(I'm thinking Leviticus 19:27)

[napkinz]

49. I guess soup is fine, but "no shrimp for you!" :)

[catrose]

36. Religious freedom

does not mean the freedom to make everybody else practice your religion

[napkinz]

43. the GOP stands for religious freedom UNLESS ...

[catrose]

44. only THEIR religious freedom

[napkinz]

47. here's an easy test for them ...

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38. from Betty Bowers ...

[napkinz]

52. Supreme Court Decision Will Lead To Assault On/Persecution Of Christians By Teh Gays!

1. GOP Rips ‘Imperial’ Supreme Court for ‘Assault’ on Christianity

The Republican reaction to the Supreme Court legalizing gay marraige across the nation was instant and heated. Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal said the ruling “tramples on states’ rights” and will “pave way for an all-out assault against the religious freedoms of Christians.” Rick Santorum tweeted that five “unelected judges redefined the foundational unit of society.” Mike Huckabee: “I will not acquiesce to an imperial court any more than our Founders acquiesced to an imperial British monarch.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/06/26/republicans-imperial-supreme-court-assaults-christians.html

2. Franklin Graham Warns Of Christian Persecution, Because The Gays

After President Obama tweeted #LoveWins following the Supreme Court decision that mandates marriage equality in all fifty states, Franklin Graham bemoaned it for creating new grounds for discrimination against churches. Todd Starnes piles on more paranoia, reminding him that many evangelicals have declared this open season on Christians.

-snip-

Starnes proclaims that the Supreme Court's decision means gay rights trump religious liberty. You think the cultural purging of the Southern States has been breathtaking, wait until you see what the activists are about to unleash on American Christians.

The sheer number of lawsuits and hate-crime charges will be staggering, he predicts. He reduces the comparison of marriage equality and traditional marriage to evil versus good. That's because human dignity is always trumped by a vengeful and hateful god, Starnes is certain of that.

http://freakoutnation.com/2015/06/franklin-graham-warns-of-christian-persecution-because-the-gays