Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:14 AM Jul 2015

You’ve Seen It On Facebook, But Does This Gay Pride Meme Deserve All The Outrage?

Photographer Ed Freeman created the gay flag image to the right more than 10 years ago for the cover of Frontiers magazine. Since then, it has been used across countless social media posts for its highly recognizable features — four men work to raise a rainbow flag, instantly evoking Joe Rosenthal’s Pulitzer Prize-winning 1945 photo at Iwo Jima (left).

Most recently, Freeman’s image resurfaced after last week’s Supreme Court victory. Freeman himself posted the picture to his Facebook account with the following message:

When I took this picture almost ten years ago, it never, never occurred to me that it would someday come to symbolize the victory we are celebrating today. Congratulations to all of us! Love to you all.


But many were upset at the implied comparison between the struggle for gay rights and the sacrifice on the battle field.

“Im all for gay rights and equal for all but DO NOT DISRESPECT THOSE WHO SERVED, SACRIFICED, AND DIED FOR YOUR COUNTRY AND YOUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOM,” wrote one commenter in response to Freeman’s post. “Its this shit that will drive ppl to hate on you. You WANT RESPECT THEN GIVE IT TO THOSE WHO DESERVE AND EARNED IT.”

-snip-



more
http://www.queerty.com/youve-seen-it-on-facebook-but-does-this-gay-pride-meme-deserve-all-the-outrage-20150703?
39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
You’ve Seen It On Facebook, But Does This Gay Pride Meme Deserve All The Outrage? (Original Post) DonViejo Jul 2015 OP
I get people being upset about this tymorial Jul 2015 #1
Oil War I veteran here. tazkcmo Jul 2015 #2
Oh, for fuck's sake, one of them is a staged photo, the other a painting based on that... Humanist_Activist Jul 2015 #3
That is the perfect answer. Orrex Jul 2015 #8
The flag raising wasn't staged. Aristus Jul 2015 #29
It's a cute pic. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #4
Not in the least. Images have power and co opting that power is an honorable tradition. CBGLuthier Jul 2015 #5
That's quite likely one of those things everybody knows that isn't so. Igel Jul 2015 #14
Well it was kind of staged. alarimer Jul 2015 #39
I tried to get worked up over the picture, just to see if I could do it, but I just can't -none Jul 2015 #6
it all about intent, imo. some people believe it's mockery. elehhhhna Jul 2015 #7
Vet here...fuck that guy, I bet they never served a day. Rex Jul 2015 #9
+1 U rule dood sibelian Jul 2015 #16
+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2015 #18
Great post, Rex! Luminous Animal Jul 2015 #25
Yours is the attitude i learned from my dad (WWII, Korea & Vietnam - Marine) peacebird Jul 2015 #27
Remember these? pinboy3niner Jul 2015 #28
That is it right there. Rex Jul 2015 #36
Well said. Aristus Jul 2015 #31
No. tavernier Jul 2015 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author NCTraveler Jul 2015 #11
I jamesartist Jul 2015 #30
More musings from the outraged Mr. Anthony. Methinks.... CurtEastPoint Jul 2015 #12
Answer: NO etherealtruth Jul 2015 #13
I'm tired of "supporters" telling us to be respectable DemocraticWing Jul 2015 #15
I'm not gay, but I completely agree with you and I am tired of it too. smirkymonkey Jul 2015 #19
Hi, I don't see how it's disrespectful unless it's smearing America's super-greatness all over sibelian Jul 2015 #17
One of the men in the famous photo could have been gay or maybe they all were! Rex Jul 2015 #20
This picture assumes that the gay universe pnwmom Jul 2015 #22
I think it is because in the original photo, it is all men. Rex Jul 2015 #23
The picture still would have been very recognizable if two of the figures had been female soldiers. pnwmom Jul 2015 #24
It was originally a greeting card FreeState Jul 2015 #34
I think the photo would be fine if they included lesbians, too, pnwmom Jul 2015 #21
The picture is over ten years old but, I agree,... DonViejo Jul 2015 #33
My uncle John was holding the second flag at Iwo, in case the first was soiled. peacebird Jul 2015 #26
I love the photo! Solly Mack Jul 2015 #32
I love that flag! Mahalo Don It's not "taking away" from anything, imo. I can honor them both. Cha Jul 2015 #35
As a Vet I see nothing wrong with this. The LGBT community it's seems to me that they have been Katashi_itto Jul 2015 #37
"It's disrespectful to the men who died for your freedom" - fundies everywhere. Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #38

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
1. I get people being upset about this
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:18 AM
Jul 2015

I'm not a fan. I don't see it as disrespectful but I don't see it as appropriate at the same time if that makes any sense. The second guy from the left is cute though.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
3. Oh, for fuck's sake, one of them is a staged photo, the other a painting based on that...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:20 AM
Jul 2015

I don't get the outrage.

Aristus

(66,387 posts)
29. The flag raising wasn't staged.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 06:59 PM
Jul 2015

The world-famous photo by Joe Rosenthal was snapped quickly, without preparation, and just one of a number of shots Rosenthal took as quickly as he could to record the moment. After the flag was up, he then took a staged, posed photo of the Marines around the flag they had just raised. No one disputes that that particular pic was posed. But the flag raising itself was unrehearsed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima

I have to roll my eyes at the ALL-CAPS OUTRAGE of veterans and those claiming to be veterans. I'm a veteran of the Gulf War, and I have no problem with the gay-pride image. It's just an image. But then, I've been a friend of LGBT's for decades now. I'm happy we've won a significant victory for civil rights.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
5. Not in the least. Images have power and co opting that power is an honorable tradition.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:22 AM
Jul 2015

Only jingoist fascist homophobes would object. Besides everyone knows the original was staged.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
14. That's quite likely one of those things everybody knows that isn't so.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:17 AM
Jul 2015

The USPS's revised the photograph for a stamp. The original photo wasn't inclusive enough and had to be edited to be inclusive. This was considered an offensive rewrite of history. It could be argued that only racists would argue against changing the race of some of the flag raisers, but the claim that revising history was a bad thing stung. What to do?

The NY Times editorial folk said it was a retake. That the flag was raised, the photographer missed it, and so he had them redo it. That made it into a photo-op, really, but had two consequences. It had net effect of taking what had become a patriotic symbol (or a "jingoistic fascist symbol&quot and making it into a symbol of cynical scorn. And they said that since it was staged, anyway, there was no revising of actual history.

That quickly just became "the photograph was staged," with all the false outrage that accompanies such things when iconoclasts long to see an icon clast down.

The photographer denied this, but, of course, that was iron-clad evidence for iconoclasts that it was staged--only somebody lying would deny such an obvious truth.

At the same time, there's a nice bit of film footage taken by a guy last name Genaust of this flag's being raised. Once. And the photograph matches the film footage perfectly.

There immediately followed the claim that the film was of the re-do. In other words, the film is also staged. After all, if the photograph was staged, a fake, how could the film be anything else?

The most reasonable explanation is that the NYT editors so wanted to get it wrong that they overcame various hurdles to do so. Early in the day a small flag was planted at the top of the hill, according to those who were there (unlike NYT editors). Easy enough thing to do, one guy plants it. It wasn't large enough to be seen from far away or from ships, and that was a real desideratum. Later in the day, soldiers were told to take a larger flag to the hill and raise it. That they did. It wasn't raised as a photo-op. That flag wasn't raised, taken down, and raised again. It replaced a smaller one.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
39. Well it was kind of staged.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:05 AM
Jul 2015

I don't think that's incorrect.

What else would you call it? The famous photo was NOT of the first flag-raising, but one that was specifically done later in the day. They may of had their reasons, but it was definitely not a spontaneous, organic thing.

And they paraded around those poor guys who didn't actually raise the flag on Iwo Jima (though they were there and they did suffer for it) in order to sell war bonds. And they all, even his "brothers" treated Ira Hayes like shit.

-none

(1,884 posts)
6. I tried to get worked up over the picture, just to see if I could do it, but I just can't
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:23 AM
Jul 2015

I can see the similarities between the two. Maybe that is why I can't work up any outrage over the raising the Gay flag in the picture. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
7. it all about intent, imo. some people believe it's mockery.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:23 AM
Jul 2015

It is not, though. I'm certain it is not.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
9. Vet here...fuck that guy, I bet they never served a day.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:27 AM
Jul 2015

How is it disrespect? It is an honor imo. Gay men and women have died by the thousands for their right to be treated as equals, a lot have died from AIDS (which was a topic no party wanted to touch in the 80s).

I am PROUD to have served in the Army and am PROUD to see gay men raising their flag in victory over those that would oppress them into second class citizen status!

I love the smell of freedom in the morning!

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
36. That is it right there.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 02:35 AM
Jul 2015

Of course the Wackadoodles in the GOP think this is the end of the world...because you know, gays. Bible. Freedumb. Stupid people getting our military professionals killed and then using them for cheap political points.



tavernier

(12,392 posts)
10. No.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jul 2015

Bad taste.

To me, it actually looks like a photo shopped by wing nuts to make fun of gays.

Rather than that, post photos of the Multiflag flying beside the graves of heroic youngsters who were tortured and killed for who they were born to be.

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
13. Answer: NO
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:58 AM
Jul 2015
DO NOT DISRESPECT THOSE WHO SERVED, SACRIFICED, AND DIED FOR YOUR COUNTRY AND RIGHTS AND FREEDOM


How many died for rights and freedom (in the struggle for basic / equal rights in the the GLBT struggle)?: too many.

DemocraticWing

(1,290 posts)
15. I'm tired of "supporters" telling us to be respectable
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:52 AM
Jul 2015

"Don't have photos that look similar to the military you weren't allowed to join"
"Sit down and shut up when you're in the White House with the President that imprisons trans people"
"Earn the respect of those who support you, or we'll stop being on your side."

It makes me sick, and it's a symptom of a problem that privileged liberals have with marginalized communities. At least the conservatives have open dislike, this....this is just subtle, passive-aggressive backstabbing.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
19. I'm not gay, but I completely agree with you and I am tired of it too.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 02:06 PM
Jul 2015

I am tired of dems telling other marginalized dems how to behave.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
17. Hi, I don't see how it's disrespectful unless it's smearing America's super-greatness all over
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 01:18 PM
Jul 2015

with TEH GAY OMFG! ARG THE HORROR, etc. Which is, uh, stupid.

Gay people serve in the army. In fact, they have been serving in the army for decades without being allowed to say that they are.

Sigh.
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
20. One of the men in the famous photo could have been gay or maybe they all were!
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jul 2015

I HATE it when people just assume the entire planet is hetro. It makes Earth suck! Our earth mother loves diversity and made us to reflect that we are all unique in some way. People that feel more comfortable being around 'carbon copies' of themselves, scare me.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
22. This picture assumes that the gay universe
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 04:23 PM
Jul 2015

is all male.



Where are the lesbians in the picture?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
23. I think it is because in the original photo, it is all men.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 05:27 PM
Jul 2015

So they want people to know they are making a comparison, is my guess.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
24. The picture still would have been very recognizable if two of the figures had been female soldiers.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 06:28 PM
Jul 2015

I think they just forgot.

FreeState

(10,572 posts)
34. It was originally a greeting card
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 07:59 PM
Jul 2015

it was made to sell to gay men at the time, it wasn't meant to make a statement.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
21. I think the photo would be fine if they included lesbians, too,
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jul 2015

who have been working every bit as hard for marriage equality.

It's a strange oversight that they didn't.

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
33. The picture is over ten years old but, I agree,...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 07:36 PM
Jul 2015

it would have been an awesome pic if women had been included.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
26. My uncle John was holding the second flag at Iwo, in case the first was soiled.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 06:44 PM
Jul 2015

His huge Greek heart was full of love and passion, I seriously seriously doubt he would have been offended by the rainbow flag rendition. Likely he would have seen it as "copying being the sincerest form of flattery"

Solly Mack

(90,773 posts)
32. I love the photo!
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 07:06 PM
Jul 2015

A bunch of idiots that know absolutely nothing about the military spouting their hate and trying to hide it behind "patriotism". Fuck the whiners.

Cha

(297,311 posts)
35. I love that flag! Mahalo Don It's not "taking away" from anything, imo. I can honor them both.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 02:34 AM
Jul 2015
"When I took this picture almost ten years ago, it never, never occurred to me that it would someday come to symbolize the victory we are celebrating today. Congratulations to all of us! Love to you all."

:candle
 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
37. As a Vet I see nothing wrong with this. The LGBT community it's seems to me that they have been
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 02:52 AM
Jul 2015

fighting a long war to gain equal rights. Not much different from the civil rights movement of the 60s.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
38. "It's disrespectful to the men who died for your freedom" - fundies everywhere.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:48 AM
Jul 2015

Guess what, fundies? Some of those men who died for your freedom: were GAY.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»You’ve Seen It On Faceboo...