Are School Shootings Contagious?

[vinny9698]

Every mental health expert knows once a person becomes suicidal; they become homicidal. Notice that all of the shooters suicide right after they kill. Roof wanted to kill himself, but ran out of bullets according to the survivor. That's why he did not have an exit plan and did not hide his face. He wanted people to know his identity. They publish their suicide manifesto on the Internet and try to go out in a blaze of glory. We also have suicide by cop. But that is another story.

When Marilyn Monroe died in August 1962, with the cause listed as probable suicide, the nation reacted. In the months afterward, there was extensive news coverage, widespread sorrow and a spate of suicides. According to one study, the suicide rate in the United States jumped by 12 percent compared with the same months in the previous year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/14/upshot/the-science-behind-suicide-contagion.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

They also recommend avoiding coverage that describes death as an escape for a troubled person. One example was the 1994 death of Kurt Cobain of Nirvana, who was beloved among young music fans, including in Seattle, where his career rose and where he was found dead. Local coverage of his suicide was closely tied to messages about treatment for mental health and suicide prevention, along with a very public discussion of the pain his death caused his family. Those factors may explain why his death bucked the pattern. In the months after Mr. Cobain’s death, calls to suicide prevention lines in the Seattle area surged and suicides actually went down.

[Orrex]

1. The opening line is offensive horseshit

Every mental health expert knows once a person becomes suicidal; they become homicidal.

What is the basis for this idiotic claim? Who are the "health experts" who know this?

I have known a number of people who committed suicide, and not one of them was homicidal, unless the author is going for some idiotic and insulting "suicide is homicide" bullshit.

Also, it's a criminally bad misuse of a semicolon.

[vinny9698]

3. Just look at the number of homicides followed by suicides.

Not all suicidal people are homicidal. But there is a correlation between them.

The researchers speculate that the willingness to harm oneself makes it easier for that person to harm another. This makes sense. It would be reasonable to suspect that someone who devalues their life to the point where they make an attempt, probably wouldn’t value someone else’s life as highly, either.
http://www.dailyrepublic.com/opinion/localopinioncolumnists/when-suicide-turns-to-homicide/

[B2G]

5. That's not what your OP says. nt

[Orrex]

7. Suicides followed by homicides? I expect that the number is close to zero.

It would require some clever time-delay, would it not?

Since the overwhelmingly huge majority of suicides do not involve the murder of another, I'll need to see some hard numbers supporting the crackpot speculation of these "researchers."

[KittyWampus]

8. There is a very well stated theory that mass shooters are suicidal. I've posted it many times

on DU.

The OP doesn't state the case well at all.

But it's related to suicidal terrorists who detonate body bombs in public.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/opinion/what-drives-suicidal-mass-killers.html?_r=0

[Orrex]

13. That's an important distinction to make

I submit that a newly radicalized 19-year-old suicide bomber is so different from a 35-year-old who's been battling depression for decades that no meaningful general conclusion can drawn from them about the mindset of suicides.

And I maintain that a blanket statement equating the non-radicalized suicidal mentality with a homicidal mindset is irresponsible and callous. (Not saying that you're equating them, but that the author in the original article is doing so.)

[KittyWampus]

19. I submit that if you are depressed, cultural tendencies influence how you act

will your suicidal tendencies be to act outwardly or inwardly?

[vinny9698]

9. It's in the news all the time

Boyfriends, husbands, laid of workers, homicide followed by suicide. Or suicide by cop.
Going postal. Most of the school shooters, WWII Kamakazi, suicide bombers, all suicide for different causes but the end is the same.

[Orrex]

12. Surely you recognize that that's anecdotal

The very first statistic I found basically destroys your assertion:

In 2013, there were 41,149 deaths by suicide in the United States. Source

Your claim is that the number of those 41,149 suicides also entailing suicide is sufficient to make a blanket statement about the mindset of suicides in general. I dismiss that point as false and absurd on its face until you can provide supporting documentation.

Did you edit reply #3? I swear that I read it as "suicides followed by homicides." If you edited to correct, that's fair, and either way if I'm wrong then I retract that objection.

[vinny9698]

14. Look I am just trying to make the point that most of the mass killers were suicidal

then they become homicidal. As a way to address the problem as to how to spot and prevent mass killings from happening.
Maybe I worded the it wrong. Suicidal people can become homicidal. Not saying all suicidal become homicidal.
The Curt Cobain example is a way of preventing suicides. Mass media should follow that example. Trying to prevent suicides not just "glorifying" the shooters.

[Orrex]

16. IMO that should have been your OP

The assertion should be made in the opposite direction. Rather than making the demonstrably false (and frankly insupportable) claim that "most suicides are homicidal," you should assert instead that "the majority of mass killers were suicidal."

That's a much stronger claim and much more readily supported by evidence.

[valerief]

4. Agreed. That's a semi-colon crime. I have no idea about the suicidal/homicidal stuff (this is the

first time I ever read about such a link), but I know that's no way to use a semi-colon.

[vinny9698]

6. Proper way to commit suicide

Single car accidents when the driver goes off the road or slams into barrier can be considered suicides, but the insurance companies will pay off because of the bad publicity of denying claims.
There is no stigma, insurance money,
Sad and I do not condone such behavior but it really saves the family a lot of grief and quilt.

[sl8]

11. I don't think all the post's text is from the same source.

Some of the text in the post is comes from the NYT article, but it doesn't appear that all of it does. Added by the poster, I assume?

It's kind of confusing without excerpt formatting or quotes being employed.

[B2G]

2. What?

"Every mental health expert knows once a person becomes suicidal; they become homicidal."

[vinny9698]

10. Maybe I should have worded different.

Every mental health expert knows that once a person become suicidal, they can become homicidal. Not saying that all suicidal people will become homicidal but can become.

[Orrex]

15. But even that statement is meaningless

Every mental health expert knows that once a person become suicidal, they can become homicidal. Not saying that all suicidal people will become homicidal but can become.

Yeah, but so can the first-place marathon finisher and the lottery winner and the last person to exit the zoo on a given night.

The statement "that once a person become suicidal, they can become homicidal" is so broad that it can't be falsified and therefore has no predictive value.

[vinny9698]

17. Can we agree that most mass killers committed suicide after mass killing

The majority of mass killers either committed suicide or suicide by cop.
That's the point I am trying to make. Some people do not see the correlation.

[Orrex]

18. I can agree to that point, but it's very different from the OP's point.