does it matter if a candidate for president doesn't have a college degree?

[CTyankee]

Evidently, there's been some kind of study about whether our presidents w/o a college degree were any worse than those with degrees (based on things like war, economic downturns, etc.). Of course it has been some 67 years since our last president lacking a college degree (Harry Truman). The study said it didn't matter.

This was a brief segment on Morning Joe today that came up because Scott Walker never completed college. So I think this is a bit different. Walker probably could have completed his degree if he had wanted to. I also question whether the voters would care/not care. Obvioiusly, Walker is hoping they won't care.

Mostly, I think people like me who detest him would never vote for him, degree or no degree. But I do think that now, with so many people struggling to complete college or pay for their kids college tuition, it seems irresponsible for Walker not to have just given it more effort when he actually had the means to do it.

But with Republican voters, it is becoming obvious that the crazier the candidate, the better, so they'll vote for him regardless... a college degree is the least of it...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. Everything matters to some folks.

There will be voters who won't vote for Bernie because he doesn't comb his hair, for Clinton because she was married to Bill, for Walker because of his lack of a degree.

[CTyankee]

2. My guess is that Joe et al were trying to get this issue out of the way before the

Republican primary. I really don't care since there is plenty not to like about him. But I wondered how folks here regarded it as an issue.

[elehhhhna]

61. jeb likely didn't finish and lied it

[tavernier]

3. Yes

it would matter to me. I believe that a high school education and "common sense" are not enough of a comprehensive background in order to be a world leader. I believe that a more complex knowledge of history, geography, economics and business is absolutely essential.

On the other hand, GWB had a college education and could barely pronounce his own name.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. Plus 1000 n/t

[CTyankee]

7. the morning joe panel also discussed the predominance of the Ivy League grads in

our recent presidents. I'd just as soon have a president that did not go to an Ivy myself...I'm not knocking Obama's or the Clintons or Bush senior's education but so many non-Ivy schools are wonderful...

[dixiegrrrrl]

24. Let's not forget, however, the people who graduated from Liberty college and similar dumps.

There was a whole pack of Bush era cronies who had gone to some right wing religious college, and they were as dumb as a box of hammers.
Name of the place escapes me at the moment.

The whole thing about Ivy league is that many upper crust families send generations of their male line to them, as a matter of course.
Just a big club with books for some folks, who put emphasis on "being on the right track".

So the question is not if they have a college degree, but what kind of education did they have?

[CTyankee]

36. Ilove the repukes who are always putting down the Ivy League schools but when it comes to their kids

why, they are practically singing "Boola Boola" and "Fair Harvard thy sons to thy jubilee throng." I notice that if one of their kids gets into an Ivy League School, they don't say "Don't go there. Go to Podunk College like me..."

[corkhead]

44. They put down those who went there even when they went there themselves

While Ted Cruz was dissing the Supreme Court for destroying traditional marriage on Megyn Kelly's show recently:

“All nine of them – they either graduated from Harvard or Yale – eight or nine of them are from the east coast or the west coast.”

Kelly smirked and reminded Cruz that he, too, had graduated from Harvard Law School and jokingly called him a “smartypants.”

“Yes, I graduated from Harvard, as well,” Cruz admitted.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/megyn-kelly-schools-ted-cruz-on-plan-to-rewrite-the-constitution-to-punish-supreme-court/

[aikoaiko]

19. I generally agree, but college is not the only way to become liberally educated.

And yes, as you noted, we've seen example of presidents with decent academic credential act in a decidedly benighted manner.

[exboyfil]

21. Ideal would someone with at least a B.S. level

knowledge/degree in both a science/engineering and a humanities/social studies. A technical undergrad with a law degree as one example. Someone with either degree that is also well read in the other area.

[hobbit709]

70. They already have a BS level and it's deep.

[NV Whino]

4. No

A piece of paper does not make a person smart, well read, informed, or in fact, educated.

[countingbluecars]

6. Just wondering if you would feel

the same way about your doctor?

[NV Whino]

8. Good question

Probably not. I'm thinking in terms of a surgeon, here. Surgery requires very specific skills and lots of training and discipline. There are also ethics involved, which seldom worry our politicians. A GP, maybe. These days, at least, I find I know almost as much as my GP.

[uponit7771]

12. Being president of the largest economy and military in the world doesn't take any of those skills?

tia

[LanternWaste]

25. Very creative movement of the goalposts...

Very creative movement of the goalposts...

[Le Taz Hot]

10. As a person with two college degrees

I concur. Met too many idiot professors and met many a wise person who hadn't graduated high school.

[immoderate]

13. I'm with you.

College degrees do not prevent idiocy.

--imm

[LanternWaste]

26. Nor do seat belts prevent injury...

Nor do seat belts prevent injury... merely increases the likelihood of injury prevention by a vast degree.

[immoderate]

46. Irrelevant when seeking out a unique entity.

For president, we can judge the person, not his/her credentials.

Did you know that the most widely quoted living intellectual, Chomsky, has no college degrees, or even a high school diploma.

--imm

[fishwax]

72. chomsky has a few college degrees

He studied at Penn as an undergrad and as a graduate student.

[immoderate]

73. I stand corrected.

I was misreading remarks he made in an interview.

--imm

[Le Taz Hot]

9. Didn't W have a degree from Yale?

I rest my case.

[City Lights]

11. Harvard, too.

Ivy League degrees ain't what they used to be!

[Le Taz Hot]

17. In most cases

all an Ivy League degree tells you is that mummy and daddums had enough money to send you there.

[CTyankee]

18. I came back from my stepson's graduation from Tulane that had a culturally diverse

and wonderfully presented ceremony (around New Orleans rich history) to the very weekend that Yale was bestowing an honorary doctorate on GW Bush. Usually I love my town around the time of Yale's graduation celebrations, but I couldn't help being revolted by the hon. degree thingy in the midst of the war he started. It was also depressing as all hell...

[elfin]

14. Not really UNLESS they LIED about why they left college

The weasel says he left for a "dream job" at the Red Cross (or perhaps it was IBM, depending on when he lied) believe and to'marry. However, he had not yet met his future wife and it is widely thought, but not proven, that he was nudged out by Marquette for his corrupt campaigning for student body president.

A C student at best, he didn't have that much longer to go before graduation. But he had found his calling - to run for any office at any opportunity, but not get caught at shady practices as happened in college.

[B Calm]

15. Can you name the 9 presidents who didn't have a college degree? Hint 2 of them are on Mt Rushmore!

https://collegeplus.org/blog/nine-presidents-no-degree

[Retrograde]

83. Washington, Lincoln, Truman

(among our best presidents, btw, but that was then), Jackson, Andrew Johnson, uh, then I have to look them up.

True fact: although Millard Fillmore did not attend college himself, he was one of the founders of the University of Buffalo, now the State University of New York at Buffalo. And he lived down the street from my sister (and 150 years earlier, but what's a few decades among friends?)

[Glassunion]

16. I'm giong to say no

Skills and experience go quite a long way.

[DawgHouse]

20. I wouldn't automatically discount a candidate who didn't have a degree.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. to me it matters. we won't even give a administrative job these days without a college degree

i dont think we should give someone the presidency without a college degree.

[MoonRiver]

23. i'm an education snob. There I admitted it.

Many eons ago, when I was dating, I would not consider a guy who didn't, at least, have a bachelor's degree. I already had my Master's so really I expected that. Got lucky when I fell in love with a guy who had a Ph.D.

Anyway, I definitely think less of a presidential candidate, whatever the party affiliation, who didn't get his/her degree. We want to look up to our Presidents, and being deficient in this category doesn't help the candidate, imho.

[CTyankee]

32. I had an interrupted college experiience...had 3 years of two different degree pursuits but later

found a college who combined my credits and I finished others needed to bestow a BA so it wasn't a big problem that I thought and feared it would be. I loved the experience so much I went back for a Master's at the same school. It was a lot of fun and a lot of work (esp. since I had a very demanding full time job) but I was a bit sad when I graduated...

[MoonRiver]

34. I know what you mean! I loved school a lot more than working in my chosen field.

Probably should have become a professor, like my husband, but the meetings and paperwork are not a lot of fun in that career either.

I always worked during school, but not full time. OMG, that must have been hard, and you must be very smart to have done it.

[CTyankee]

38. It was stressful but mostly it was the job, not school and hey, I got to swim free in the school's

Olympic size pool and it was very de-stressing...

[MoonRiver]

39. Swimming in that pool sounds awesome!

The older I get the more I realize that reducing stress is the most important thing we can do for ourselves.

[CTyankee]

68. for women like me it's "caregiver stress" and my doctor sees a lot of it in his practice.

I am temporarily on low dose tranquilizers but I only take it at night so I can sleep. Lots of older women with husbands needing more care have this, I am told.

[MoonRiver]

80. Right now it's my husband who is more caretaker. But things can change. Might be me someday.

to we "older" people with our many disabilities. We will overcome!

[CTyankee]

82. yes, I had that back a few years ago...hubby had to do a lot...I was laid up for months

while my gut healed from abdominal surgery and could barely eat. I lost 30 lbs. It was not good, since I am not that large. I learned something about "playing hurt and coming back." I came back and I'm here...

[CTyankee]

42. Actually, after I graduated my favorite professor (with whom I am still friendly) offered me the

opportunity to teach a poetry class as an adjunct. While at the time I was a tutor in ESOL, I really felt that I was not teacher material. I simply didn't have her talent in bringing out the best in her students...it is a gift. Later I taught a short poetry course in a Learning in Retirement program but I didn't do it again because I didn't enjoy it that much (it was a course in the poetry of love and some of the class members would invariably break down in tears over the love poetry of loss).

[chknltl]

27. To those willing to vote for Palin...

...voting for anyone who completed high school was pushing it.

[Botany]

28. Something happened @ Marquette w/Walker

Because he was with in a quarter or two of graduation and he did not got his
degree there nor did he transfer his credit hours to another college.

BTW my tells me that Walker won his last two races w/the help
of electronic voting machines.

[Greybnk48]

89. Agree about help from the machines, etc.

I don't believe, and never will believe, he legitimately survived the recall. They gamed it.

I also don't think he was as far along in college as some like to say. His Wiki page and personal page on line is a effing fairy tale. I think his credits show that he had, at the least, a year to go, probably more. And he was not a strong student. The gossip has always been (as you probably already know) that he was expelled for his conduct/ meddling with a campus election (and I had always heard academic cheating).

[Botany]

90. As a Professor's son I always wondered why he did not finish his degree ....

..... except for the reason that his credit hours could not transfer because
of something he did at Marquette.

His recall vote never passed my smell test because both Madison and Milwaukee
came in w/such strong numbers the race should have been close ..... also you
had some "red counties" in NW Wisconsin having more people sign recall petitions
then voted for Walker in the general election.

[onyourleft]

29. Yes, it...

...matters to me. While I would never vote for him, not having a degree is just another nail. Republican voters, hating most things even slightly intellectual, will see this as a plus.

[treestar]

30. College does provide some discipline.

on that page they are devaluing it by saying lectures are not necessary and you can read on your own. But how many are going to do that? So it is theoretically possible you could educate yourself, but most people won't have the discipline in isolation.

Lincoln was a lawyer and would have had to practice and read law under another lawyer. People read the law and took the bar. Still theoretically possible but modern people would need law school to get it done and even a bar study course right before the bar.

[CTyankee]

84. I find it sad. We have a friend who had the offer of a free education with a state

college because he was working as a unionized plumber there. He's a great guy, very smart and he loves the arts as I do so we have great conversations. But he never followed thru with more than getting a few college credits. I cut him some slack because he worked long hours on his knees and wrecking his shoulder carrying heavy fixtures. But I feel it was a waste of his mind, all the same...

[Township75]

31. College degrees don't prove too much

Bill gates left Harvard
Bush finished at Yale.

My experience is that you are smart or stupid regardless of how much education you have. You either have he ability to learn or you don't, and you will learn more on the job or in life than you will in a class

Now that most higher Ed institution just suck tuition money from people and the state, and most profs hate teaching and just want to run their own lab, higher Ed means even less.

As someone else stated, is it going to change your vote ? No one is crossing party lines based on diplomas.

[Aristus]

33. I think it does.

We no longer live in a world in which people like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln can excel in complex leadership tasks without having earned a college degree.

We tend to remember Harry Truman as a 'failed haberdasher' before he became President, and forget that he was a respected civic judge who was appointed to the post based on perseverance, industry, and high ethics. He served with such distinction that a local political boss engineered Truman's rise to national politics and eventually the Presidency; all without a college degree.

But those days are over.

As has been pointed out above, intellectual featherweights like George W. Bush and Dan Quayle have college degrees, and made a pretty poor show of leadership despite them.

I think the degree itself is less important than what they studied, class standing, how they applied their education, and what they did to get admitted to university in the first place. Bush got into Yale as a legacy when he didn't have the grades to get accepted to the University of Texas. He was awarded an MBA, even though most business courses require group work in stead of individual study, allowing a soft-brained goof-off to goof off and still get a sheepskin. His class standing wasn't stellar, and few of his classmates remember him as an excellent student. He was a miserably incompetent businessman who constantly needed to be rescued by more accomplished executives. And he only rose to political power through the machinations of people who just got tired of pulling his irons out of the fire.

[Ilsa]

50. Well said.

I think the process they had to go through says a lot about the person.

[frazzled]

65. Yes, we might say, "necessary, but not sufficient." /nt

[2naSalit]

35. It matters to me when choosing for whom I would vote. nt

[0rganism]

37. as always, IOKIYAR

heck for a republican candidate, lack of higher education could be considered an asset

[Xyzse]

45. -sigh- So true... nt.

[Nye Bevan]

40. Not in the slightest. Did George Bush's "gentleman's C" make him a better president? (nt)

[CBGLuthier]

41. Truman was a good man who managed to rise above personal prejudices and do the right thing

On the other hand there will never again \be a president without at least one college degree. Men of the people do not get elected president in the modern era.

[Paladin]

43. For the most powerful elective office on the planet?

I don't think having a college degree is too rigorous a requirement. It's a deal-breaker for me---no college graduation, no presidency.

[LeftinOH]

47. Yes. We're not talking about mayor of Hooterville.

The President of the USA should have some academic exposure beyond his local high school.

[Skittles]

91. I have known SO many degreed IDIOTS

education is different from INTELLIGENCE

[LeftinOH]

92. Me too.. but we're talking about President of the USA, which

only 44 people have ever served. In the 21st century, it isn't asking too much for a college-educated President.

[JCMach1]

48. His record in WI is a bigger disqualifier

... but yes

[Ilsa]

49. I would prefer a degree, but not in Business Administration.

I might like someone with an economics degree.

I appreciate that a degreed person has been goal oriented and able to finish such a long term project. In the cases of those of us who had little in the way of resources to go to college, I appreciate that some people have to be either more patient or ingenious to find a way to get a degree.

[KansDem]

51. He can have one of mine

I'm not using them

[Reter]

52. No, in fact I don't believe he or she needs any college at all

I want more regular people as politicians.

[ProfessorGAC]

76. I'm Regular People

And i have three advanced degrees. How does being educated make someone not regular folks?

[Reter]

93. What I mean is people with no college are greatly under-represented

Virtually no one is a House member or Senator without college. The last high school dropout I remember was Sonny Bono.

[KamaAina]

53. In the case of Walker, the question is why

There is a longstanding rumor among Marquette alums that he got the boot for cheating. Naturally, he denies this.

[lonestarnot]

58. Cheater. I wouldn't be surprised if this rumor is true. Why don't we know this?

[KamaAina]

64. Yeah. Why isn't the M$M all over this like a duck on a June bug?

Especially Fox!

[merrily]

54. Truman, who makes most top 10 US Presidents ever lists, was the last President not to have a

college degree. However, he knew how to speak English better than Dimson. A high school diploma today is not necessarily the same as a high school diploma was many years ago, when relatively few could dream of going to college.

As for Scott Walker in particular, it's more significant to me that he dropped out of college after losing an election than the mere absence of a degree. Also, he was a C- student, also not comforting.

Republicans put a lot of stock in having served as Governor, but I don't think that is such a big deal either. I think few than half of the Presidents who make most of the ten greatest lists have been Governors. Washington and Lincoln, for example, never served as Governors--and Lincoln's only military service, the other credential Republicans respect--consisted of waiting in someone's pasture one day as a member of the militia. According to him, nothing happened, so they all went home after three hours.

I don't think there's a magic credential. But Walker has shown us who he is and it's ugly.

[Pharlo]

55. Has it dawned on anyone that even Sarah 'The Quitter' Palin finished her degree.

This tells me that Sarah Palin is less likely to quit than Scott Walker.

I think I need to get a bumper sticker "Hey Scott! Even Sarah Palin finished college!"

[lonestarnot]

56. So Walker is a college quitter?

[Oneironaut]

57. Not to me. A college degree doesn't prove anything.

I have a college degree, but it wasn't a magical scroll that made me more skilled. It was a starting point. It doesn't show intelligence, common sense, or good leadership skills.

[lumberjack_jeff]

59. It matters not at all to me that Bernie Sanders has a college degree.

It matters not at all to me that GWB had two - from Yale and Harvard.

I don't think it's a predictor of anything useful.

[dumbcat]

60. Really,

it depends on which party s/he is from.

[Throd]

62. No.

[Orsino]

63. Yes. Presidents have to know stuff, and be able to learn more stuff.

Academia isn't the only way to demonstrate that capacity, but lacking higher education, a candidate ought to have other qualifications that show a commitment to bettering him/herself and the nation. College is important, but I'd say that public service is even more of a qualification.

Smart is good, but so is well-intentioned.

[olddots]

66. the guestion should be about why Republicans are anti education

Why a Walker or Cruz want to be simpletons and why Democrats for the most part choose to be knowledgable .Both Republicans and Democrats of any scholastic background know that answer ,

[Vinca]

67. No.

There are many brilliant people who are not college graduates and many idiots who are (think Dubya).

[Lurks Often]

69. It would be a mistake to use a lack of a college diploma as an attack

you would risk alienating a large chunk of the voting block who DON"T have a college degree by either implying or outright saying that a lack of a college degree makes a person unqualified to be President or for that matter Senator or Representative.

[Deadshot]

71. I would not want a President who did not complete college.

Getting a college degree symbolizes someone who was able to learn basic critical thinking skills. Scott Walker does not have any critical thinking skills. A President needs to know how to critically think about everything.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

74. Huge negative but not necessarily a deal-breaker.

As others have said, it's the circumstances of Walker not finishing that may be more troublesome.

[CTyankee]

75. Yes, the circumstances matter. I think people see someone w/o a degree who had the

wherewithal to stick with it and blew it off for whatever reason. Methinks the oppo work against him is in the works now...

[TheNutcracker]

77. Well the establishment says we all have to just to get a regular job!

[CTyankee]

79. sometimes, you gotta do the work and get the damn degree...it took one of my kids

a few years to learn that, but learn he did and graduated from an Ivy League school...anything can happen if you try hard enough...

[TexasBushwhacker]

81. Getting a degree may not prove you're intelligent

but it does prove you can stick with something to completion. I think that's important. Hell, you can hardly get a job as an administrative assistant without a degree.

[CTyankee]

86. true. my son is now a senior prosecutor in NYC...he's working for the good guys and a

true progressive to boot. I raised him right I guess!

[winter is coming]

78. Depends on why he/she doesn't have a degree.

In isolation, it's not a deal-breaker, but it does draw my attention, and not in a good way.

[Greybnk48]

85. Two words, Scott Walker.

His tweets are fraught with gaffs, misspellings, historical and geographic mistakes. It's embarrassing.

Example: http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05/13/scott-walker-humiliates-basic-american-history-wrong.html

[CTyankee]

88. Like another repuke said: "Libya? What's next, Africa?"

[Yo_Mama]

87. Not to me.

In my experience, I haven't seen any indication at all that having a college degree meaningfully distinguishes persons by capacity.

Some of the brightest and indeed most well-educated persons I know did not go the college route, and I know persons whose mental and educational attainments are frankly subnormal who have college degrees. I know people who are illiterate who have college degrees. I know people who have college degrees who have no real-world skills whatsoever, and move through life as wrecking balls.

On this issue, I am agnostic.