Please be advised: half my family is of Greek descent.

[magical thyme]

When you call Greek's "lazy," "deadbeat," "profligate," "spendthrift" or any other perjorative name, you are calling me and my family by those names.

From now on I intend to alert on any post I see calling Greeks any of those names because I am Greek and that means you are calling me a name. Name calling violates the terms of service.

[Xyzse]

1. I have never thought that.

I tend to consider the banks that preyed upon that economy and mismanaged their funds to be the culprits.

It is just a shame that the Greeks have to deal with the fall-out.

So, I tend to stand with them, even if they do have their faults.

[erronis]

50. Based on Michael Lewis's book "Boomerang" it was, once again the American banksters

That were largely at fault.

A bunch of swashbuckling hucksters from Wall Street convinced the Greek (and other countries) that this type of leveraged borrowing was "good". Just like in China now, the temptation of the normal people to grab a piece of the gold at the end of the investing rainbow was just too large to ignore.

When the bubbles burst around the world, those banksters in fine suits were nowhere to be found. There may be a few more additions on houses in the Hamptons and nice yachts but there is no one to ask to be responsible for this mess. As they say, caveat emptor (not in Greek, of course.)

[truedelphi]

53. it is also quite true, in addition to the points you make, that "normal"

Every day, hard working people need capital. And unlike the Banksters, they have to borrow it, since they cannot afford to buy out entire governments and then see to it that their class of people is bailed out to the tune of 22 trillions of dollars.

Those who cannot steal are condemned to borrow!

[ananda]

61. Yeah, people tend to buy into government and media-sanctioned gambling.

My dad used to say: never gamble more than you can afford to lose.

It's hard when you're poor though and just want what other people have. For instance, owning a home is a big deal to those who have historically been deprived of it. It's just hard to resist, even with those awful borrowing terms that led to a huge financial crisis.

It's been hard for the ordinary Chinese citizen to resist speculating in their stock market, which is now crashing. All those sob stories are truly heart rending. They just wanted to get ahead.

All this is so sad.

[geek tragedy]

2. the Greek government has been all of those things and continues to be

many of them.

Fair to insult the Greek government, no?

Do you think it's any better to insult Germans, by the way?

[KamaAina]

3. So does bigotry.

Suppose I were to flip that on its head and start calling Germans "hardheaded", "sadistic", etc.? I'd be in timeout in a heartbeat!

[magical thyme]

10. I have not called the Germans "hardheaded" or "sadistic"

although I will continue to remind people at DU that they have yet to pay hundreds of billions in war reparations that were awarded to Greece back in 1946.

[KamaAina]

14. I know that

I was just trying to illustrate the other side of the Greek coin. Reductio ad absurdum, you see.

Oh, and to point out that bigotry against Greeks or any other ethnic group is itself against the rules, without having to resort to defining it as name-calling, certainly not to accuse you of being a bigot!

[Human101948]

22. I am of German descent and...

I would say hard-headed, sadistic and add bigoted and arrogant. But, as Donald Trump said, some of them might be good people.

[KamaAina]

4. Hmmmm... are potatoes used at all in Greek cuisine?

I don't seem to recall any, except for the "Greek fries" I had at a souvlaki joint here, which were plain ol' fries dusted with Greek spices.

[magical thyme]

8. moussaka can be made with eggplant and potatoes instead of pasta

it's a million times better that way, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. And I could eat it

that sounds yummy

[BrotherIvan]

23. Greek lemon potatoes are some of the best things on earth

If you are making say a roast chicken, make some at the same time and they will blow your mind.

http://greek.food.com/recipe/ellinikos-lemoni-patatas-greek-lemon-potatoes-90822?photo=2584

[edhopper]

30. Lemon Potatoes

potato wedges roasted in lemon and oil. Fantastic. At most Greek restaurants.

[B2G]

5. Good thing you didn't descend from a southern state

You'd be out of your mind by now.

[magical thyme]

12. I probably would be.

I've never participated in the southern-bashing here.

Although I grew up in PA, my immediate neighbors were from Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina and Florida. They were all good democrats, educated and accomplished.

[B2G]

16. I know you haven't

It's appreciated and gives you credibility.

[Phentex]

25. I'm glad you get it...

even though you know when you see the word Greek, they are not talking specifically about you, magical thyme, it is still offensive and should not be done on DU. But you may be told you are being sensitive. I disagree.

[Igel]

40. MT gets it.

Of course, when we say "Americans speak English" that's completely wrong. Some don't. So we can't say "Americans speak English."

We have to say, I guess, "Americans don't speak English"--but that means no Americans speak English.

We can't use bare plurals because people go language-stupid when politics and personal sensibilities get involved.

Crap. I said "people", and that's a bare plural. There are some people who don't go language-supid when politics and personal sensibilities get involved.

That means "no people go language stupid when politics and personal sensibilities get involved." So either MT isn't a person, or doesn't get it.

A more typical example is, "Mammals give milk" or "Dogs have four legs." Rather means that if you don't give milk you're not a mammal (sorry, biological males and pre-pubescent and post-menopausal females) or if a dog loses a leg it's no longer a dog.

I guess it's possible that we need to rethink how we interpret bare plurals.

(They're also called "generic plurals." It just goes to show that many people use language without stopping to think that their claims about how it works are insane. Noam Chomsky actually had a lot to say about this problem. People made all kinds of foolish prescriptive rules and judgments, based largely on attitudes. Then linguists discovered data. Often they produced the data themselves, from introspection. Bias cuts deep into that process and they got strange results at times, but mostly unending arguments. So linguistics discovered data collection and analysis.

(Chomsky stopped there. He should have kept on going, because data collection assumes you know what you're collecting data from. A lot of problems in fine-grained linguist analysis result from either covert dialect differences, sort of a crappy solution to the problem; or from insights that, well, introspection might help with. In any event, a lot of what people call "getting it" was something that Chomsky considered obsolete, utterly invalid in the '60s.)

On the other hand, I don't know many here who have insulted the generalized, proto-typical Greek using the terms in the OP, so it sounds like a linguistic fallacy built on a logical fallacy.

[magical thyme]

55. there are 1 or 2 DUers and various likely trolls responding to the crisis in Greece

by using the terms in the OP to describe blame the Greek people 100% for the crisis, when, in fact, it is the 1% who don't pay taxes, the Greeks work the longest hours of the EU members, the original debt was due to one corrup government (just like our first trillion or so in our bad debt was due to an illegal war, and the next trillion due to tax cuts for our 1%), Germany owes them nearly the full amount of their current debt in war reparations that were never paid, and so on. They also persist in ignoring the facts that the Troika used the "loans" to bail out the banks, not the Greek people, and imposed austerity that was guaranteed to crush the economy, thereby ensuring the loans could not ever be paid.

[Phentex]

24. I was going to say good thing she doesn't live there!

[C Moon]

63. I'm not from the south, but some of the southern bashing I've seen on DU raised my eyebrows.

[brer cat]

6. Good luck.

"Name calling violates the terms of service." Except when it is southerners, people of color, people who support certain candidates. I haven't seen posts calling Greeks pejorative names, but it doesn't surprise me. The superiority of some members of DU seems to grant them immunity from any responsibility to be civil.

I will gladly join you in alerting if I see any such comments.

[Sancho]

7. I love the Greek community here in Tarpon Springs, FL

and the Greek immigrants are certainly not "lazy"...DUers should be smarter than to paint any group with a broad brush.

Hopefully, Greece will find a way out of the economic mess. An interesting view:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-causes-of-the-catastrophic-crisis-in-greece-and-the-left/5365013

The Real Causes of the Catastrophic Crisis in Greece and the “Left”

1. The integration of Greece into the EU is the real cause of its catastrophic crisis
2. Capitalist globalization can only be neoliberal
3. Competitiveness is the rule
4. The EU as a mechanism to transfer surplus from its “South” to its “North”
5. The disorienting role of the “Left”

[geek tragedy]

11. So, Greece bears no responsibility for its own problems? nt

[Sancho]

19. Did Greece purposefully commit economic suicide? I doubt it.

The linked article is just one view of many to a complex problem. Everyone likes a scapegoat and in this case there's lots of blaming everyday people.

Greece has a GDP about the size of Miami. Why would that "bring down the EU"? In fact, there are no big banks or any other reason for the troika to do anything except a plan to bail them out. It would be easier for the EU to invest in Greece than wait for Russia or China to step in if Greece leaves the euro.

As others have pointed out, Greece forgave German debt after WWII.

Punishing the Greek people won't help. Getting some control of the international banking manipulators would be useful.

[geek tragedy]

21. Greece certainly did engage in reckless, irresponsible economic behavior

for over a decade, spending way beyond its means, promising absurdly generous retirement benefits (based on highest wage, not lifetime, and beginning at 49-50 years old) that it could never afford, graft was rampant in the government, etc.

Greece has to show themselves to be a good investment.

Everyone who's bet on Greece has lost thus far.

[Sancho]

27. What percent of Greek people were promised those benefits?

Everyone? Public employees?

What percent of the GDP of Greece goes to wages and benefits? Does the Greek government employ every citizen?

So you have a GDP the size of Miami. For a decade, some corrupt politicians gave a cushy job and retirement to some subset of the public employees, and a generous version of SS or something like that...the total amount of money involved would be about the amount of what???

Destroying the Greek economy is like a teacher punishing the entire class because one student acted up, and the reason for that student misbehaving is partially because the teacher didn't have clear rules in place to start with...to unwind the knot requires classroom management, not fussing at everyone including those who had nothing to do with the problem.

Should all Americans be punished because Bush and Cheney started an illegal war that cost millions and murdered thousands? No, Bush and Cheney are responsible. In fact, many nations went along with the plan too.

Again, don't look for a scapegoat because that's too easy.

[geek tragedy]

32. the pensions were promised to everyone, apparently.

everyone got benefits, no one paid taxes

too good to be true.

[Sancho]

34. and just like US SS and Medicare - adjustments need to be made.

but some of the problems were also joining the EU and living up to EU standards without being able to meet the requirements of the deal.

I just don't think the promised pensions alone represent the amount that would bring down the country. It's also the fact that austerity for Greece, Spain, etc. are a way to protect the powerful and "move money North".

Greece may need reform (just like the US banking system), but don't throw out the baby with the bath.

[geek tragedy]

37. those 'adjustments' led to riots in Athens in 2010.

no money moved north from Greece--hundreds of billions of Euros have moved south to Greece and then have evaporated.

anyone who's invested in Greece has lost their shirt.

Even the banksters took huge losses.

Voters everywhere have two things in common:

1) they want great government benefits;
2) they don't want to pay for government benefits.

The key to an effective economic policy is to make sure that the ability to provide benefits is directly tied to the ability to pay for them.

The other EU countries strongly suspect that Tsipras will tell promise them one thing and then promise Greek voters the 180 degree opposite.

Which is why they're making him walk the plank this week. His proposal, in black and white. He can't call a referendum on his own proposal.

Rather, he has to come up with a proposal that will pass in the Bundestag.

He's got a lot of bridges to mend before that happens.

[cascadiance]

29. I was reading that the earlier Greek government was very ineffective in taxing their rich folk...

... which is what lead to the reduced size of their revenues and the rest of the population suffering more without that revenue... Much like what we've been building to here!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/wealthy-greeks-still-dodging-taxes-despite-crisis-a-864703.html

[EX500rider]

43. Global Research? lol

Can't take anything serious from that site, sorry.


Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, Global Research mostly consists of polemicists, many of whom accept (and use) conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and propaganda. The prevalent conspiracist strand relates to global power-elites (primarily governments and corporations) and their New World Order. Specific featured conspiracy theories include those addressing 9/11, vaccines, genetic modification, Zionism, HAARP, global warming, Bosnian genocide denialism, chemtrails, and David Kelly.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

[Throd]

9. So we can only use positive adjectives?

If those terms don't apply to you they don't apply to you.

[magical thyme]

13. stick to facts.

[Throd]

15. Sometimes facts reflect negatively on a culture.

[truedelphi]

54. But on this particular board, some cultures are protected from criticism, while others are

Not.

[LanternWaste]

18. You may use any term you wish to

You may use any term you wish to, regardless of any negative consequences which may arise.

[snooper2]

20. and a drunk racoon

This is an intervention

&feature=youtu.be

[Renew Deal]

26. Do you use the N word?

Since you can find a way to justify it?

[Throd]

33. Not remotly the same

but you know that.

[LanternWaste]

35. Your distinction lacks a difference.

Your distinction lacks a difference. But you knew that, part two.

[Nye Bevan]

47. I can call Bill Cosby a creepy rapist without using the n-word.

Because "creepy rapist" is factual but the n-word is simply mindless racist invective.

And yes, you knew that.

[lostnfound]

28. Warm. Fun-loving. Welcoming. Inventive. Proud.

Plus they make some damn delicious food.

The U.S. has a weird workaholic, puritanical and hyper-individualistic attitude. Consider the source and don't take it personally.

[TexasProgresive]

31. I have one stereotype of Greeks

Any restaurant owned by Greeks, no matter the type of cuisine served, will be outstanding. Is it alright if I keep thinking and saying that?

[Lyric]

36. I hate ouzo.

But I love everything else Greek!

[Angry Dragon]

44. ouzo is good

[Nye Bevan]

39. Is this an example of the kind of post you will be alerting on?

80. Greek profligacy, pensions and perks cost nation dear

... Although widespread, tax evasion is only the tip of the iceberg of Greece's financial meltdown. The source of the profligacy that has pushed the country to near bankruptcy and at 13.6% earned it Europe's biggest public deficit and debt, is its all-pervasive state – what the embattled prime minister George Papandreou calls "Greece's big sick man."

Around one million Greeks are employed in the wider public sector with the vast majority holding jobs from which constitutionally they can never be fired. It is a security that has not only assured the popularity of such positions, but the exponential growth of the public administration in the wake of democracy's return following the collapse of military rule in 1974.

For successive governments, power has been used to dispense patronage and reward voters with jobs – a practice that increasingly triggered labour unrest and dragged down the economy. In the shadow of bloody civil war, the state was the great connector...

/... http://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/may/07/greek-debt-crisis-jobs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1116&pid=66756

I did a DU Google search of lazy Greeks but could not find any posts with that accusation. However, I did find this post that talked about Greek profligacy. It is, however, unusual for DU posts that source the UK Guardian to be hidden.

[Surya Gayatri]

45. Then there's this...wonder if it's hide-worthy...

Don’t Blame Germany for Greece’s Profligacy

"Greece would have faced far greater austerity had Germany and the rest of the EU not come to its rescue."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/dont-blame-germany-for-greeces-profligacy-1429225842

[historylovr]

46. It is probably in reference to this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1139498

[truedelphi]

56. I was pleased to see The Guardian run this article by

George Monbiot --

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/07/greece-financial-elite-democracy-liassez-faire-neoliberalism

[Iggo]

41. Meta!

[el_bryanto]

42. Isn't there a distinction between criticizing Greek policy and criticizing

all Greek people? If one says that Greece basically had a corrupt and nepotistic system for years that was propped up by borrowing money, is that an attack on all Greek folk?

Bryant

[TexasProgresive]

51. I have seen some infer that the Greek people are lazy etc.

No doubt there is blame to be placed on the government but that doesn't mean the people should be painted with that broad brush. If that's the case then we (Americans) are stupid and easily duped because the actions of Raygun/bush and bush/cheney?

[treestar]

59. That's what I was going to say

Why are people willing to take it as an insult to themselves and their families?

[ismnotwasm]

48. People have been doing that?

I'm am so sorry-- you have every right to be upset. Those are reprehensible things to say about a people.



(I'm relying less and less on DU for news and discussion at this time and completely ignored the threads on Greece)

[jalan48]

49. What a glorious history. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle just to name a few.

I think my ancestors were still living in caves when the Greeks were discussing politics.

[Stonepounder]

52. No serious situation, be it economic, cultural, international, or anything else

has a simplistic cause, or a simplistic solution. To say that the economic situation in Greece is because Greek government was corrupt, or profligate, or lazy, or simply overspent is a nonsensical as saying the problem was their joining the EU, or German avarice, or the IMF's lending policy, or, or, or.

I would suggest that there is no one to 'blame' or no one 'problem' that can ascribed as 'the issue'. I would suggest that there is enough blame (if that's what you want to call it) to go around - Greece, the EU, Germany, the banks, bad decisions over the last 20, 40, 200, or more, years. I would suggest that it would be significantly more productive to discuss solutions than spend our time trying to place the blame.

Just sayin'

[get the red out]

57. Dear God

Are people doing that???? The Greek people are the ones who have been wronged. Alerting on that would be quite justified.

[PoliticAverse]

58. If you are really of Greek descent show us your feta. n/t

[Helen Borg]

60. I just had a hummus sandwich.

[marble falls]

62. If I see it, I'll report it.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

64. Can I discuss "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"?

Fun movie.