Imagine that one of the US states decided to allow workers in many professions to retire at 50,

[Nye Bevan]

such as masseurs, hairdressers, and trombonists, and would finance these early retirements by generous pensions paid by the state.

Great, right?

Now imagine, however, that this state (somewhat predictably) runs out of money (in large part because they are lousy at collecting state taxes) and is having trouble paying the pensions of the fiftysomething trombonists. That state then demands a bailout from the Federal governmemt, paid for by all of our taxes.

Would you be fine with this?

This is kind of how the Germans see the Greek situation. Except that Greece is not even a state within their country, it is a different country altogether.

In Greece, trombone players and pastry chefs get to retire as early as 50 on grounds their work causes them late career breathing problems. Hairdressers enjoy the same perk thanks to the dyes and other chemicals they rub into people's scalps.

Then there are masseurs at steam baths: they get an early out because prolonged exposure to all that heat and steam is deemed unhealthy.

Until the Greek debt crisis, northern Europeans looked at Greek early retirement with an amused roll of the eyes. But more and more such loopholes are angering them: they bristle at being asked to pay for their laggard southern neighbors' early retirement.

When Germany's top-selling newspaper Bild asked readers in that fiscally prudent nation how they felt about coughing up hard-earned money for this kind of luxury, the daily's website lit up with comment.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/europe-balks-at-greeces-retire-at-50-rules/

[TwilightGardener]

1. Fifty's pretty young, LOL.

[Nye Bevan]

2. When I was 20 I thought 50 was really, really old.

Now? Not so much.

[TwilightGardener]

3. I'm 45--no, fifty doesn't seem old anymore...

[Depaysement]

4. Seriously dated - Syriza has already changed this.

Your article is from 2010. It is over five years old.

The number of "Arduous professions" pensions permitting retirement at 50 have been reduced from 580 to 100. The retirement age has already been increased from 60 to 65 for other jobs and is again being increased to 67. The IBT article below was published Friday.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/greek-debt-crisis-greece-takes-axe-bloated-pension-system-retirement-age-hike-1510281

[Nye Bevan]

7. Except that anyone who had worked in an "arduous profession" (such as tromboning) for 10 years

or more, retained their right to the early retirement and generous pension.

[Depaysement]

9. Well, yeah, it's vested

And those pensions are already subject to reduction,

Then there's this:

"Spain too agreed to raise the retirement age to 67 earlier this year as it aims to reduce pension spending by around 3.5% of GDP by 2050. Italy has pledged to raise retirement age to 68 before 2050 (it is currently between 60 and 65). Germany is going the other way, reducing the retirement to 63 for some civil servants in 2014."

[reorg]

11. the 'effective' retirement age has been exactly the same

in Germany and Greece, whatever the statutory retirement age may be.

These propaganda stories sit well with some of the less informed people, though, because the number of the poor has been and continues to be increasing in all countries.

[Depaysement]

12. Good point nt

[reorg]

10. Seems to me you are just jealous

and you failed to mention that one of the requirements for early retirement was 35 years of working in said 'arduous professions'. Since, in Greece (in other countries not so much) it does indeed happen that people start working at age 15, it was possible to retire early if, for instance, you had been inhaling dangerous fumes as a hairdresser.

As to how 'generous' these pensions were, it would be nice if you could provide us with examples. I am German, and I'm pretty sure that I (after working much less than 35 years - in a government owned firm, though) will receive a pension that's just as 'generous', if not more so - because it is complemented by a company pension scheme. Other Germans, whose pensions might be less 'generous' due to the fact that Germany has developed a large low-wage sector in the last 15 years, can apply for state assistance, which is not possible in Greece because there is no social assistance to the poor - like e.g. Medicare etc. in the US - as far as I know.

Under corporate mind management, the prevailing story fed populations has been the typical one of welfare chiselers at the bottom freeloading on working people whose taxes support their profligate life styles of unemployment, imprisonment, hunger, homelessness and other aspects of such mind managed idiocy. Greece is said to be sponging on thriving economic citadels like Germany and France, home to hard working populations while the indolent Greeks sit around cafes and enjoy lives of leisure. In America, this tale is told in the same way to workers and retirees under major stress from an expanding billionaire creditor class as they themselves dwindle in number and fall into greater debt all the while being taught to blame those even worse off than they are for being the cause of their problems.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/greece-no-its-all-of-us/5461873

[BlueJazz]

5. Seems they went from one extreme to the other. Irritating in the sense of it can be ammunition...

...for right-wingers to start with their: "See, this is what happens when you (insert utterly ridiculous stuff here)"

[Warren Stupidity]

6. So your theory here is that the Greek debt crisis was entirely, or mostly, caused by early

retirement options in select fields?

Seriously?

[Nye Bevan]

8. "Make no mistake, Greece’s pension system is not sustainable and still needs major reform."

But it’s not enough. Make no mistake, Greece’s pension system is not sustainable and still needs major reform.

As a proportion of GDP, no country in the EU spends as much as Greece’s 17.5% on pensions, according to Eurostat:

What’s more, in Greece the size of the deficit in the pension system is 9% of GDP, compared with 3% of GDP in Germany.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/15/unsustainable-futures-greece-pensions-dilemma-explained-financial-crisis-default-eurozone

[reorg]

13. Perhaps so

but in real terms, pensions in Greece are about average and lower than in Germany:

Total pension expenditure per beneficiary for old-age pensions (2012)

[Warren Stupidity]

14. Perhaps the problem isn't pensions but the collapse of the Greek economy after 2009.

But again, your claim appeared to be that granting some specific job categories early retirement options was "the problem with Greece".

Now you've moved on to pensions in general. You seem to be just joining the Standard Chorus of Approbation, singing from the Hymnal of Austerity.