Women Sue for Right to Be Drafted in the U.S.

[douglas9]

NEWARK, N.J. (CN) - A New Jersey teenage girl has brought a federal class action against the Selective Service System, claiming its refusal to consider women for the draft is discriminatory.
"With both males and females available for such roles today, the two sexes are now similarly situated for draft registration purposes and there is no legitimate reason for the government to discriminate against the female class, so equal protection applies," the complaint states. "Further, with both males and females available for such combat roles, there is no reasonable basis for infringing the associational interests of the female class by preventing them from registering."
Noting that she will turn 18 this year, E.K.L., as she is named in the complaint, says she attempted to register for the draft on the website of the Selective Service by filling out the online form.
Once she clicked "female" during the online registration process, however, the website prevented her from registering.
E.K.L. filed the complaint on July 3 through her mother, Allison Kyle, claiming that the Military Selective Service Act (MSSM) violates the civil rights of young women but contravene current policies that both the Pentagon and Congress hold for integrating women into combat roles.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2015/07/13/women-sue-for-right-to-be-drafted-in-the-u-s.htm

[HFRN]

1. there's discrimination by gender in the draft, but this is the first time I've heard it

described as 'against females'. I recall a lot of guys being upset about the vietnam draft when I was a little kid, but I don't think it occurred to them how unfair their male privilege was to women at the moment

[still_one]

2. There is no active draft today, though registration is required of males when they turn 18. Both

genders can enlist without issue, and both can serve in combat situations.

The question I have is it discrimination since there is no Active draft?

[Travis_0004]

6. I think both genders should register for the draft

There may not be a draft now, and hopefully there will never be one, but I think both sexes should be required to register.

[HFRN]

7. I bet the selective service system can go from just registration to live draft

by logging in, clicking on active status, changing it from 'standby' to 'live', and hitting save, then clicking 'yes' on the popup 'please click to confirm this change'.

(ok, more than that politically, but I bet technically it can go live that easily - actually it would be negligent in design, if it weren't)

my point being, 'registration' is *far* more real than many people realize, it's not just 'a formality'

[davidn3600]

11. Well penalties are still applied to men who don't register. Is that fair?

If a man doesn't register, he can't receive federal financial aid for college or grants for businesses. He also cannot ever have a government job.

There are also criminal penalties; however, the federal government has not prosecuted anyone criminally for not registering since the registration was reinstated. But they still threaten you with it.

[still_one]

13. Then why doesn't a male bring the discrimination charges, because they are the injured party?

[davidn3600]

18. They have

The Supreme Court ruled in the early 1980s that it wasn't discriminatory because the roles that a draft would likely fill are closed to women in the military. The fact the Pentagon is opening these combat roles to women starting next year means SCOTUS could choose to revisit the case.

There will likely be several lawsuits filed.

[still_one]

20. ok

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

21. How is there an injured party, when there is no draft?

Nobody is endangered by registering for the draft, since nobody is getting drafted.

Wake me up when the draft is re-activated.

[still_one]

22. That was my original thought, however, those males who do not register, are denied federal loans for

education I believe, and perhaps other things.

[lumberjack_jeff]

29. A man who fails to register for the draft is ineligible for student aid

It's one of the reasons men are poorly educated.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

30. Ok, if you want student aid, then register ...

... there's no draft, so what's the harm?

Does this happen so much that it is a cause for your blanket "men are poorly educated" statement?

[still_one]

33. That makes it discriminatory. Females do not have such a requirement

[Major Nikon]

49. What's the harm in sitting in the back of the bus?

If a man doesn't register by age 26, not only can he never get federal student aid, but he can't run for public office or obtain federal or state employment.

Some states have registration rates as low as 80%, and the average is around 10%, so yeah it affects millions of men and zero women. That's what discrimination looks like.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

50. No harm, if that's where you choose to sit.

Register, and you are eligible for all of the things you mentioned. Don't register, and those things are denied. It's a deal, and you can take it or not.

If some are not registering, then there must be some benefit to not registering, like not being in danger of a non-existent draft. I don't see any downside to registering, if it is required of that gender.

I do see the discrimination, which would be solved by extending the same requirements and consequences to women. I think it will be some time before women are drafted and then assigned to combat roles, if ever.

In all these studies about registration rates, are there any hints as to motive for non-registration?

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. Would you apply the same standard to race?

You consider it appropriate for men. Would it be an acceptable requirement for any other minority group? What if only blacks had to register for the draft?

When only men were eligible for combat, that was at least a fig leaf to hide institutional sexism behind.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

54. "When only men were eligible for combat"?

I don't think combat roles are equally available just yet. It's happening occasionally, and is being studied by the various branches.

Some Marine Colonel just lost her job after holding her female trainees to the same performance metrics as the male Marine trainees. So at least one branch is not up to "equality", or is still working on the meaning of "equality".

I hope the OP's subject wins her suit, opening draft registration requirements to both genders. It might reduce the chance of the draft being re-instituted. But if it happens, then the privileges and consequences of registration or refusal should apply equally.

As to your idea of limiting the draft registration to blacks, do you mean all blacks, or only black men? jk.

[Major Nikon]

55. Actually the discrimination would be solved more easily by ending the requirement

[NobodyHere]

32. I wondered what % of men registered for the draft last year.

Turns out it was 88% including a low of 34% in DC.

https://www.sss.gov/Portals/0/PDFs/Compliance%20Rates/CY%202014/comparison%20charts%202015.pdf

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. Therefore 66% of young men in DC can't go to college.

Want to fix problems with education of inner city youth? Here's a place to start.

[MADem]

28. There can be an active draft next week, if needs must.

Let's hope that doesn't happen, but if it does, you'd be shocked at how quick they could start the process of firing up draft boards and getting the MEPS to run at full steam.

The fact that half of the people eligible to serve are excluded from the draft process IS discriminatory.

We tend to think of discrimination as only applying to "good" things, like golf courses and orchestra seats at the theater--but when we're excluding people from the duties of citizenship based solely on an aspect of their nature over which they have no control, we are telling them that they are not REAL citizens, that they are "less than" and it's not a good thing to do that.

[n2doc]

3. Better if we had a draft again, for everyone

That would serve to focus people's attention on the wars. Maybe even create a little pushback against the perpetual war on an idea.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

5. Absolutely disagree.

Better if we focused on raising people out of poverty, and thus starve the military of recruits at all.

[stevenleser]

8. Right and wrong. If it were a fair draft for everyone what you say would work, but it never is/does

and therein lies the problem. The wealthy will always find a way to shelter their kids from the draft.

[HFRN]

10. 'The wealthy will always find a way to shelter their kids from the draft.'

I think our 'leaders' have proved that one

[HFRN]

9. i have mixed feelings about it

because people would be more likely to oppose a war instead of slapping a chinese made bumper sticker on their Hummer and keyboard commandoing 'GO GET EM!!!' on the internet or AM radio call in, if it were THEIR kid going, instead of some poor kid

But, on the flip side, a draft releases the constraint of troop volume on the MIC for the endless wars - so it literally is a double edged sword/M16

but i do agree that it is more fair, to have an actual draft as opposed to the defacto economic draft we have today

[hack89]

16. We would have to significantly increase military spending to make the draft fair

Last edited Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)

the military is the smallest it has ever been since pre-WWII and still down sizing. When you take in account all those voluntarily enlisting, there is room for only a tiny fraction of eligible draftees. It would incredibly unfair. And ironically, if you enlarge the military to accommodate all those draftees, the temptation to use that large and expanded military would be great.

[davidn3600]

17. Not necessarily

Norway and Israel have mandatory service requirements for both men and women. But they have different community service and civilian service options when there is no war going on.

[hack89]

25. In 2012 Norway conscripted 9265 of 63,000 draft eligible men

their form of conscription is very weak and easy to avoid. On top of that, 50% of those actually conscripted do seven months of service in the Home Guard, spread out over many years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Armed_Forces#Norwegian_Army

[hack89]

27. The size of the Israeli military relative to it's population is 10 times that of the USA

Last edited Tue Jul 14, 2015, 01:01 PM - Edit history (1)

In Israel there are 78.3 military personnel per 1000 capita. In America there is 6.9 per 1000 capita. Israel has a large enough military to make their draft fair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

[951-Riverside]

23. There will be a return of the draft don't you worry about that

and yeah you'll march around the town square like cattle with your anti war signs while the police tear gas, arrest and beat the shit out of you and politicians will make comments for and against the war, meanwhile thousands of young Americans will die or come back with PTSD.

Vietnam, the Iraq wars ...Same old. Same old.

[n2doc]

24. ...meanwhile thousands of young Americans will die or come back with PTSD

They do that now. The rest of America doesn't seem to care. Maybe they would if their own butts were at risk.

Vietnam was the last major war we ended without a victory. Iraq, Afghanistan both just keep on going on.


I personally don't think there ever will be a return to the draft. The system now, where the military is the option for those who aren't rich or driven at an early age to excel scholastically (obviously not including the academies here), works just fine for the oligarchs.

[Brother Buzz]

34. This dumb draftee is against it but the late Colonel Hackworth had some thoughts on a citizens' army

"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price of admission." - Colonel Hackworth, About Face

[pnwmom]

45. Wrong. We lost 50,000 soldiers in Vietnam because we had a draft.

If we'd had to rely on a volunteer army, the war would never have been allowed to drag out that long.

That's why so many of us fought to end the draft. It's sickening to hear people proposing bringing it back.

[HassleCat]

4. We'll need her

If we elect a Republican, there's bound to be another phony war, so we'll need all the warm bodies we can get.

[Le Taz Hot]

12. I have no problem with that.

Equal is equal. Now, about that pay equity thing . . .

[lostnfound]

14. Grr..When women represent 50% of the top leaders of all nations might be a day I'd agree with this

Until then, forget it.
And oh by the way, when women are no longer subjected to rape when serving in military roles, that would be another milestone.

Men and women should be given equal opportunities, but there are some ways that men and women AREN'T equal. Strength distribution in the population and pregnancy / cost of reproduction / opportunities for reproduction are two of the most obvious. For that matter, consequences on future reproduction or teratogenic effects are another.

This stuff is just stupid.

On edit: I've always found the whole idea of a draft for anyone to be fundamentally insane anyway.

[alarimer]

15. Eliminate the Selective Service

There should never be a draft. No one should be forced to "serve" against their will. We have an enormous military, far bigger than could ever be needed for anything but an alien invasion. And no one should be subject to punishment for failing to register.

[spanone]

19. psssst...there is no draft.

[liberal N proud]

26. Just looking for 15 minutes.

If she wants to be in the military, enlist



Since there is no active draft, what is her point?

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. Only Nixon could go to China

A member of the injured class of this particular form of institutional discrimination would never win.

Signing up for the draft is all downside for her, but I salute her for her understanding of the word "equality".

[redgreenandblue]

35. Kudos to her. True equality, not "fair weather feminism".

True equality means wanting the shitty parts along with the good parts. Equal rates for leadership positions *and* on-the-job deaths.

[SheilaT]

36. I had no idea that young men were supposed to register

with the selective service these days. I don't think either of my sons ever did. I'd have to ask them.

And if that young woman is so eager to serve, she can enlist.

[woolldog]

46. Where did she say she's eager to serve?

She's eager to register. Those are two entirely different things. Kudos to her for understanding what true equality is all about.

[SheilaT]

47. I guess I rather lept to the conclusion.

I don't think there should be any draft at all.

If she wants to serve, enlist. If she thinks she needs to wait around to be drafted, then she's a bit confused. It actually sounds as if she thinks perhaps males are still being drafted when they haven't been for some time.

[lame54]

37. Did she check with all the other women on this...

I'm sure there are plenty that want her to STFU

why doesn't she just enlist?

[marshall]

38. Did Rosa Parks check to see how others liked the back of the bus?

I think this woman is very insightful to see that equal rights comes from equal responsibility.

[lame54]

41. terrible comparison...

to be forced to go into the military is a right?

I hated registering when i turned 18 - thank god they never called

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. She must have misunderstood the point behind marches for "equality". n/t

[davidn3600]

42. She realizes that equality is more than abortion rights and equal pay

She realizes men are expected to die defending the country when that duty calls, but women are not. It is an inequality that continues to treat women as children that need protection by men.

Draft registration is also one key reason Phyllis Schlafly was successful in killing the ERA ratification in the 80s.

The solution is simple...either have women register too, or scrap the system entirely. Problem solved. That removes one roadblock to ERA.

[lame54]

44. I'm for scrapping

[KamaAina]

43. Why doesn't she just volunteer?

[Lancero]

48. I'm loving some of the responses in this topic...

Though at the same time, it's sad to see so many people saying "Why does she want equal treatment?"

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. A generation of americans have been indoctrinated in a very peculiar concept of equality. n/t

[PoliticAverse]

51. Good for them!! n/t

[Zorra]

56. We should all have equal opportunity to be imprisoned for refusing to

fight unjustifiable wars that are only for the profit of wealthy private interests.