NAACP wants Confederate carving removed from Georgia's Stone Mountain

[struggle4progress]

By DAVID NG
July 14, 2015

... A press release from Richard Rose, the president of the Atlanta chapter of the National Assn. for the Advancement of Colored People, calls for the elimination of the Confederate carving, calling it a "glorification of white supremacy."

"It is time for Georgia and other Southern states to end the glorification of slavery and white supremacy paid for and maintained with the taxes of all its citizens," the release states.

"History reminds us that despite the hero status accorded to Robert E. Lee, the West Point educated Lee was a traitor who led the military effort of the breakaway states, including Georgia."


The release continues, "The insurrection's sole purpose was to create a separate nation that would maintain the enslavement of generations of African descendants" ...

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/culture/la-et-cm-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-20150714-story.html

[MohRokTah]

1. That's a dumb suggestion.

It smacks of Bamiyan.

[Major Nikon]

9. Sure

...because a Confederate carving financed by the KKK bigots is exactly like 1,500 yr old statues of Buddha demolished by Taliban bigots.

[MohRokTah]

11. Art is art.

Destroying art because you don't like the subject of the art is foolish, asinine, and totalitarian.

[Major Nikon]

18. You could also consider the movie, "Birth of a Nation" art

...which was used as a KKK recruiting tool and was also used to largely finance the monument to hate you call "art".

After WWII, Germans, Italians, and the allies destroyed all the Nazi monuments. Do you think it would have been better to leave them up?

[MohRokTah]

20. It is art.

Burning books and destroying statues because we disagree with them is the purview of Nazis, the Taliban, and other extremist totalitarians.

[Major Nikon]

23. It never was a statue

It was a defacing of a natural wonder with hateful propaganda. Calling for the removal of such a defacing which was never anything more than propaganda glorifying slave ownership, "totalitarian" is rich.

Where you equally as apologetic of Nathan Bedford Forrest's statue being kept in a public park?

[MohRokTah]

28. That's precisely what the Buddha statues in Bamiyan were, too.

We do not destroy art because we disagree with the subject of art. To do so puts you on the precise same moral ground as Nazis and Taliban.

Seriously, I've never been so disgusted at any suggestion before.

I will oppose the destruction of this art with every fiber of my being. It is wrong and I will most certainly compare those who suggest otherwise to the Taliban because morally, it is identical.

On edit: Statues can be removed. A Bas Relief on a mountain can only be destroyed. Destruction of any art is vile and totalitarian.

[Major Nikon]

39. Nonsense

The public has a say on what is or is not displayed on public lands. Calling that "totalitarian" is pure comedy.

[MohRokTah]

44. A nation that destroys art because it disagrees with the subect of that art...

will end by destroying people.

[Major Nikon]

75. Yeah, right

If you want to carry the water of the haters, be my guest. Your arguments just aren't that much different. When something is a monument to hate, I value the opinions of those which are the target of that hate far more than I value the opinions of those who think such monuments to hate have some kind of metaphysical properties that renders it beyond public scrutiny. The part you are missing is public funds are used to maintain that symbol of hate, and believe it or not people in non-totalitarian forms of government do have a say so in how those funds are spent.

"My tax dollars should not be used to commemorate slavery," Rose said.
...
"Those guys need to go. They can be sand-blasted off, or somebody could carefully remove a slab of that and auction it off to the highest bidder," Rose said.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/naacp-wants-removal-confederate-generals-stone-mou/nmyKH/

[MohRokTah]

76. There are no public funds supporting it.

The entire complex is run by a private company, the same company that runs Dollywood.

In fact, the site is a revenue generator for the state of Georgia.

[Major Nikon]

77. Nonsense

It's owned by the state of Georgia which oversees it's management. Just because the operating expenses are self supported by user fees, doesn't mean it isn't still a liability to the state. If it were privately owned it would be paying property taxes back to the state as a minimum. It's public property and as such the public has a say over what happens to it.

[MohRokTah]

85. Herschend Family Entertainment manages Stone Mountain Park

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschend_Family_Entertainment

The state turned it over years ago.

[Major Nikon]

92. Do you think it is privately owned?

If you want to be willfully obtuse, you'll have to do so on your own.

[MohRokTah]

99. I just PROVED it is privately MANAGED!

[Major Nikon]

106. You didn't answer the question. Diversion noted.

What you posted wasn't your "point" and it was wrong to begin with.

A state agency manages the park. They just contract out their responsibilities (in true wingnut fashion) to a private company which you ridiculously think equates to private ownership.

http://georgia.gov/agencies/stone-mountain-memorial-association

[philosslayer]

22. Should all copies of "Birth of a Nation" be destroyed?

And should the movie itself be banned?

[Major Nikon]

24. I could care less if they rotted in Trump's attic

...but I wouldn't be for government financed viewings of the movie on public property. How about you?

[philosslayer]

29. You are the one who brought up destruction

The carving on Stone Mountain exists. "Birth of a Nation" exists. You are suggesting destroying one. What about the other?

[Major Nikon]

35. No, I'm not the one who brought it up

Work your way back up the thread

[csziggy]

113. It should be used as a way to teach how propaganda is used

To influence people. That's how I saw "Triumph of the Will," the Nazi propaganda film, in a class on documentary and propaganda films where we could discuss and explore the use of various images and the effect they have on people based on their previous knowledge (or lack of knowledge).

Used as an inspirational tool and propaganda for the ignorant, both "Birth of a Nation" and "Triumph of the Will" are dangerous. Used to teach how to analyze and become skeptical of propaganda, they can be valuable educational tools.

[1939]

34. While Birth of a nation may be biaased and racist

It did mark a milestone in cinematic technology and is thus a piece of art.

[Major Nikon]

36. Sure, so were statues of Stalin and Saddam Hussein

Do you think those who destroyed them were totalitarians?

[LanternWaste]

54. Museums seem a much more appropriate venue to maintain and display art...

Museums seem a much more appropriate venue to maintain and display art... unless of course, one believes Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will (and by extension, the subject of that work) should be sponsored and celebrated by the government of Berlin.

[MohRokTah]

55. No museum could hold the Stone Mountain bas relief.

Even if by some miracle a technology was developed whereby the bas relief could be removed from the mountain without utterly destroying it since given the best technology in existence right now all we would be left with is a pile of gravel if we attempted to remove it.

[el_bryanto]

48. Birth of a Nation is art created to support an awful premise

But it's place in film history is assured; the amount of film techniques developed making that movie and the interest it sustained over a long length (for the time) ensure that.

Similar to the Triumph of the Will; movies with awful messages.

Bryant

[LanternWaste]

43. The celebration of racism is the celebration of racism.

"Art is art..."

And the celebration of racism is the celebration of racism. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

[MohRokTah]

45. Destroying art is vile and morally on the same level as the Taliban. eom

[NutmegYankee]

91. Also on the same moral level as ISIS:

[csziggy]

112. Have you really looked at the Stone Mountain carving?

That is NOT art. It's crude, poorly laid out and has no socially redeeming value. The entire thing was conceived as a racist statement and funded by racist backers. The geologic formation that was defaced by that hacked out piece of crap had more artistic value.

That said, I would not object to keeping it if the location included a display explaining the history of the KKK activities held there, the history of the inspiration behind the "monument" and a breakdown of where the money used to pay for that atrocity came from.

THAT is the only socially redeeming value that thing can have - as a teaching tool to give people better perspective of what they are seeing.

[MohRokTah]

118. I would absolutely support multiple signs explaining the history of the site.

That would be entirely appropriate.

[Scootaloo]

78. Wow. really?

really really?

[JustAnotherGen]

2. Interesting - who lives in Stone Mountain GA

•Black alone - 4,802 (79.6%)
•White alone - 950 (15.8%)
•Hispanic - 182 (3.0%)
•Asian alone - 93 (1.5%)
•American Indian alone - 15 (0.2%)
•Other race alone - 15 (0.2%)
•Two or more races - 9 (0.1%)


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Stone-Mountain-Georgia.html#ixzz3ft7Ro0oI


Tremendously weighted towards minorities. I could see why the local folks would want this gone. It just seems out of place. . .

[philosslayer]

4. Are you sure they want it gone?

I've seen no data that suggests the actual residence of Stone Mountain want it gone. Its a large generator of local revenue also.

[JustAnotherGen]

7. You familiar with GA?

I think 7962 lives in this area

I hope he sees this and responds.

Look at this: A spokesman for Stone Mountain Park said any removal of the Confederate flags or monuments is up to the Georgia Legislature.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/naacp-wants-removal-confederate-generals-stone-mou/nmyKH/

That article also makes clear it is littered with confederate symbols all over the place? So is this a state sponsored Confederate Theme Park? Or is it a Letchworth State Park (that's back home in NY - beautiful) with this stuff littered around it?

As long as it's not my Fed Tax dollars going to those people to maintain - I'll leave this up to the GA state legislature to decide.

But - if one thin red cent of my money is leaving NJ which actually NEEDS the money for education and first responders - then I've got a bone to pick. If they want to keep it - they shouldn't be taking from children in my state for what looks like an Amusement Park geared towards Confederacy sympathizers. Google the site - they have laser shows and things there.

[Dawgs]

17. FWIW, Stone Mountain is part of Metro Atlanta. It's surrounded by suburbs. n/t

[JI7]

21. a lot of this was a reaction to civil rights

[JustAnotherGen]

30. What I saw in Stone Mountain GA's Klan

It was the patriotism around WWI mixed with a snake oil preacher type that started this in 1915. And this carving (I was correct below) took decades to complete - so it predates the civil rights movement.

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. That really is not a very good carving....

Do they want Jefferson Davis' house in Biloxi torn down too?

[exboyfil]

51. A hurricane already did that

It is actually quite a shame. I remember going when I was in high school.

[Hoyt]

5. I'm for it. That place gives me the creeps. It was home to an annual Klan cross burning

for decades.

[JustAnotherGen]

8. Oh my god!

And this thing went up in 1972? That's creepy.

[Gormy Cuss]

10. Finished in '72. The concept goes back to the early 20th century

and was from the beginning linked to white supremacists.

[MohRokTah]

12. Here's a phtograph of the progress in 1930

Work began nearly a century ago:

[JustAnotherGen]

14. 15 years after the second Klan was 'born'

atop that mountain.

I'm thinking find someone to carefully carve it out and remove it. Put it in a freak show.

[MohRokTah]

19. Destroying art because we disagree with the subject is no different from the Taliban

I oppose destroying this with every fiber of my art loving being.

[JustAnotherGen]

25. I'm not suggesting we destroy it -

I'm suggesting we remove it.

My husband is a UNESCO certified restoration specialist - he and his team have worked to remove stained glass pieces (in the iron) from churches and building with 500-600 years more on them than this sculpture. He's got his start as a metal specialist in the Pantheon working around the stone.

It we can remove and restore things far more fragile i.e. stained glass and ancient Rome and ancient Roman ruins around Europe - we can remove this with care.

Now I know for a fact there are people in the US who are qualified to remove it - because he has worked with them here.

And note -my husband is a juried artist - so I TOTALLY get the 'artist' point of view. The restoration work lead to two branches of his business - custom design and restoration for architecture. If no one is available in the US - we could reach out to someone with his kind of art training abroad - An artist who does this type of commercial work because there is a lot more money involved will 'get it' and treat it with care. Especially if they are involved with UNESCO. You can't touch their shit unless you are the best at what you do.

It's not an ungettable get. And due to it being exposed - we really should have it in a museum as an 'oddity' of America. You don't want to lose it - but you could certainly look at it as a 'shame on us' thing.

Then again - I think Triumph of the Will (Reifenstahl's propaganda piece for Hitler) is one of the most beautiful things filmed - from an artist perspective. And I'm amazed at D.W.'s special effects in Birth of a Nation. But we won't find those movies being shown today outside of Holocaust memorials or Art and History of Film Classes. I think TCM showed BOAN last year with heavy commentary before and after. Both are perfect example of 'shame on us' while giving us a slice of the worst people in the world.

This is another slice of the worst people in the world (the Klan) and what they worshipped and were lead by.

[MohRokTah]

32. To remove it would be to destroy it.

You cannot simply remove it. It is ~90' x 190'

A piece of artwork 30 yards by 60 1/3 yards carved into a mountain cannot simply be removed without destroying it utterly.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. I disagree

Have you ever been around people who do this work for a living? Even if they did it in fourths - as they did parts of the dome at the Pantheon (concrete) - they could do it. Even reinforce it with assistance of metal sculptors. They 'bring' things back together and life - all of the time.

It can be done - would take several years - and then could be put back together. No biggie.

Could you imagine - 300 years from now - Americans seeing a reel of Birth of a Nation running next to this - and commentary about how the movie inspired the men who stood on top of this?

I think it has historical context - and to spend that time - on it - it's worth preserving it. If you wait three hundred years - with climate change - it most likely will be gone forever.

[haikugal]

41. I like it...let's do it! nt

[MohRokTah]

47. It CANNOT BE DONE!

Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch, look at the bas relief! Explosives were used to set the carving! The only way to remove it would be to use explosives! It's a CHUNK OF FUCKING GRANITE!

You cannot simply remove it unless you utterly destroy it.

[Hoyt]

59. I agree, it can't be moved. Interestingly, they are moving the Cyclorama

from an old park to the Atlanta Historical Society. The Cyclorama housed the largest oil painting in the world, circa 1885.

From promotional material -- the painting is 42 feet tall and 358 feet in circumference. It offers breathtaking realism enhanced by a foreground of three-dimensional figures and terrain. The presentation is accompanied by music and narration, available in five languages.

I never felt as creepy there, because it's not really a celebration of the confederacy and such. In fact, it's a depiction of the Confederates last ditch effort to save Atlanta from Sherman, and they failed.

[Abouttime]

62. No

Drills and chisels, it'll come right off. It's not art, it's hate speech.

[MohRokTah]

63. It's art.

Just because you do not like it does not make it any less art.

[alarimer]

119. And destroy the mountain itself, which is an interesting piece of geology.

I agree with you. People who are advocating this are being deliberately obtuse. I'm in favor of keeping ALL the old monuments to confederate generals and such. Just add some context at the sites. We cannot erase history, no matter how much we might want to pull them all down.

[bravenak]

79. You are just too damn smart!

Great idea! Let the experts move it to a museum. I was just gonna say smash it anyway, but your idea seems somehow better.

[JustAnotherGen]

111. No never smash

But having had a private tour guide in Rome - who was an Italian - I got a different tour with my husband than the average American tourist.

They show the average American tourist ancient Rome. We stood in front of the capitol building (our equivalent) under a balcony - and she showed us pictures from a rally.

Should we destroy that ancient architecture because a man stood there in the last century and for his time, in his way - chanted death to America?

If every American student got the tour I did - we would want it destroyed.

In the case of this sculpture - though it no longer serves a function (being to use something) we don't have something from 2000 years ago to use as an alternative narrative. We could use it to tell the truth about why it's there and to show its ugliness - as a mark of how base and inhumane Americans have been to black people.

Those aren't heroes up there - it's Beni, Adolph, and Tojo. Let's tell the truth.

[MohRokTah]

86. IT CANNOT BE REMOVED WITHOUT DESTROYING IT!

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick!

[kwassa]

98. It is really bad art. I suggest howitzers.

[MohRokTah]

100. That's just Taliban like crap. Blowing up art because you don't like it.

That's the same shit the fundies say about any art they don't like, too.

[kwassa]

102. It isn't art. It is propoganda. Blow it up.

Speaking as an artist and art teacher.

[MohRokTah]

103. You don't like it so you say it isn't art.

It IS art and just because you don't like it does not make it any less art.

[kwassa]

105. It isn't art because you say it is.

And not all art is equal.

[MohRokTah]

110. A 90' x 190' bas relief isn't art?

That's crazy talk.

[Gormy Cuss]

97. I think the sculpture should stay where it is

and that all the information materials and signage link it to the ignominy of the KKK and the Confederacy.

That preserves the art in the true context of history.

[JustAnotherGen]

33. Another of a place to put it - the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis?

It could be placed in context there as an exhibit.

Think like this in Germany -

http://www.stiftung-denkmal.de/startseite.html

Put all of the stuff in one place for people to seek it out.

[MohRokTah]

37. I don't think you get the enormity of this piece of art.

Imagine a football field.

Now imagine cutting off a piece of that football field one foot beyond the 36 yard line.

What's left is the area of this bas relief.

It cannot be removed and moved somewhere else. It would be destroyed in the process.

[JustAnotherGen]

40. I absolutely DO

And I'm telling you - it's not an ungettable get.

You mean to tell me - this country built the hoover damn - and we can't do this?


It's big - we can do it. The other alternative - enclose it. Let the fed gov collect a fee off of people who want to see it. Would that be acceptable to you?

There's a reason why you can't go into Mussolini's quarters when you visit the forum unless you have a connection - and can pay the fee. And the things in there were his actual 'things' and are beginning to get quite fragile -like his chess board. Ideally - they should enclose a lot of that in glass/preserve it as it is starting to fade.

[MohRokTah]

49. I'm telling you IT CANNOT BE DONE!

The material used in the sculpture is a large chunk of granite called Stone Mountain.

The tools used to carve the bas relief were explosives.

The ONLY way to remove the bas relief is with explosives.

IT CANNOT BE REMOVED WHILE PRESERVING THE BAS RELIEF!

It is physically impossible.

[B2G]

50. They don't want to preserve it

They want to destroy it. Sandblast it, actually. The NAACP made that clear in their statement.

This whole thread is depressing.

[MohRokTah]

52. It's fucking Talibanlike to destroy it.

Fuck fuck fuckity fuck!

[B2G]

53. I couldn't agree more. nt

[Ilsa]

96. ITA with you.

It cannot be moved.

I've seen it. Aside from the historic aspects of it, it is an incredible work of art.

It's also the site for light and laser shows, if memory serves.

[A HERETIC I AM]

69. Ummmm...actually, explosives weren't used to do the actual carving. Edited

Explosives were certainly used to remove much of the outer material, but the actual carving or finishing of the elements are done with drills and other hand held machinery. There is a massive sculpture still underway in the Black Hills of SD. They are using similar methods in completing the Crazy Horse memorial.

You can only blast so close to what it is you are trying to keep on the mountain, obviously.


And as far as removing the relief from Stone Mountain, I believe they could do it. It would be painstaking and would have to be done in many pieces and they would lose a significant amount of material in doing so, but for the most part, I think the technology exists that it could be done.

I have read your posts and I know you have strong feelings, but I do not agree that it is "physically impossible".

On edit to add....

However, I agree with the rest of your sentiment. I think it should stay in place. The same man involved in Mt. Rushmore was involved in Stone Mountain and so for no other reason, it deserves to stay as a tribute to the genius of Gutzon Borglum.

[MohRokTah]

70. lose a significant amount of material in doing so

So you agree with me, it cannot be done.

[A HERETIC I AM]

71. No, by significant I mean 10% or less.

Look...I am not an expert on carving granite, but I do know how it is cut.

Say you want to remove Lee's head or the hindquarters of his horse. You can drill a series of small holes that parallel the face of the relief and another series perpendicular to those, such that it resembles, for lack of a better way of putting it, a slice of cake. Wedges are inserted into the holes to instigate a controlled crack between them. Advanced hydraulic controls exist that can facilitate this very carefully and even over the course of many hours so as to ensure it is done properly.

The other method is use of a diamond saw like this one;





The piece being removed is supported by crane or similar so that when it is free it is held safely.

The 10% material lost is that which is drilled away or lost to inadvertent cracking and breakage.

Would it be easy? No, of course not. But I do honestly think the technology exists that it could be done.

But again, as I said in my edit above.......The carving should stay right where it is.

[B2G]

73. And some were pissed about an honor guard

Removing the Confederase flag.

I can just imagine the outrage at the cost and time required to attempt this.

[alphafemale]

115. Might be a tad tricky to dangle something like that off a sheer face of a mountain.

Just saying.

I wish the carving were not there. But it is.

It used to bother me much more than it does now. But I have come to the thought that it is a good example of the folly and arrogance of human beings.

It should stay.

[Calista241]

64. It cannot be moved.

That much granite cannot be cut out of the mountain and moved while retaining the integrity of the artwork.

The granite alone would way several millions lbs. Even if you could get it from the mountain to the earth, there no way to transport that much rock.

[aikoaiko]

117. Is there an example of removing with out destroying such a large carved relief in granite?

It would seem that you would have to do a lot of stone removal around and behind it.

And then you would be left with something so large that it might not be movable in practical terms

[Scootaloo]

80. Then every city in the US is "just like the Taliban"

[JustAnotherGen]

13. Interesting Gormy - the first meeting of the '2nd Klan'

Was held ON Stone Mountain GA on Thanksgiving night - 1915.
http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/history/ku-klux-klan-the-second-ku-klux-klan.html

And the 'founder' of this second Klan got the idea for the visual imagery of burning a cross (it was a fundie organization) from D.W. Griffith.

Probably stuff you already knew - but I'd love to see a survey done of the folks in Stone Mountain to see if they want it to remain there or not -

Just in light of its current demographics.

[CTBlueboy]

6. Good

No monuments , no flags for traitors

If you want to learn about Robert e lee and his thugs get a history book that where they belong.

[Hoyt]

15. +1. I grew up in Atlanta, still arguing with yahoos who say the flag and memorial are part of

our heritage. Yeah, a heritage of hatred, racism, intimidation, and probably worse.

[JustAnotherGen]

42. Question - see MohRokTah's responses up above

Would you -as a native of that region - be upset if it was enclosed - or removed and enclosed elsewhere?

[Hoyt]

57. I'm in a minority of opinion in Atlanta on this. Unless I just can't avoid it, I will not

go to Stone Mountain.

Many folks I went to high school (we were less than 10 miles from Stone Mountain) think it's a great park and cite the "Heritage" BS. Yeah sure, those yahoos are the same ones who voted for Lester Maddox -- Georgia's Governor and Lt. Governor 1967 to 1975 -- an uneducated, ignorant racist who rose to fame by chasing Black people out of his Atlanta restaurant with an pick handles and guns (I think he made a fortunate off selling pick handles).

Point is, Stone Mountain is a symbol of that, lynchings, hatred, Jim Crow, etc. As far as I'm concerned, they can blow the mountain up and sell the gravel.

In a bit of fairness, it's supposedly a nice family park now and lots of ethnic groups go and hold weddings, reunions, and other events there, among the confederate flags and big carving. I think they do have a respected laser show against the mountain that attracts a lots of folks.

[Calista241]

67. I go there all the time. The roads are perfect for cycling and there's not much traffic

I see people of all races there regularly, and there's all kinds on outdoor activities for everyone.

I never knew family reunions were a big thing until all these groups of people started showing up at Stone Mountain.

[Hoyt]

74. Unfortunately, I feel creepy there. I go to Kennesaw Battle Field to hike, but it's not a monument

to the confederacy.

The Atlanta news paper would run photos of the crossburnings when I was growing up. It was just an ugly time. I get it's different for younger people, and that's good.

[JustAnotherGen]

109. Thanks for sharing your experience on this

Seriously - its good insight from someone in the area.

[oneshooter]

95. Would you agree to bulldozing the grave yards? n/t

[CTBlueboy]

104. Did I not answer that question

I say built a memorial for the slaves they desever honor for the horrors they hand to endure do you have a problem with that ?

I know you going to say oh your great great family members only fought to defend their farms and what not,but guess unlike your family members; Africans were rapeed, stripped of their culture, put in chains, and worked to death and still 400 plus years later thier grand grand children are still effected by racsim system.


So please save the white tears about confederate memorials.

[951-Riverside]

16. Its about time the NAACP drop the "C"

It is an extremely racist and outdated slur that was commonly used by white southerners to disparage African Americans.

[philosslayer]

26. WTF??

This has to rank among the dumbest posts i've ever seen. What about the United Negro College Fund? Should they change their name as well?

"Colored" is offensive, but "Person of Color" is okay?

[JustAnotherGen]

27. Well - you get right on them and get that protest going n/t

[Damansarajaya]

31. I think the NAACP can decide what to call themselves. They don't need your advice. nt

[Scootaloo]

82. Man, there's some weird people making weird claims in this thread.

[Whiskeytide]

46. I went to Stone Mountain about 12 years ago...

... on the recommendation of a friend from Atlanta (we went for a Braves game primarily). I had not even heard of it, which was odd since I was born in Alabama and raised primarily in the South. I guess my parents didn't have it on the "must see" vacation list.

I was expecting a "confederate theme park", but by the end of the day I realized that - although "the Civil War" and "the confederate legacy" are there since that is the theme of the images on the carving and the history of the mountain itself - it's NOT really a confederate theme park. Other than the carving and the confederate hall museum, most of the attractions are not of the 'Southern Heritage" type. A train ride around the mountain, golf, boating and canoeing, hiking trails and camp sites, a frontier type town, a wild west show, a rope climb, a WWII era "duck" boat ride, a summit skyride, bike trails... and a host of other attractions that have nothing to do with the rebel cause.

There is a gift shop where you can buy anything confederate (or Union) your heart desires, but also a lot of items similarly not confederate in tone. The museum has exhibits that are not flattering to the South and the confederacy. There is information about the clan rally history - but it also is not glorified in the presentation. In fact, after reading over the clan exhibits, my impression was that it was really acknowledged for what it was - a white supremacist horror. Most of what I recall is the geological history of the mountain and the odd history of the carving itself - about how much trouble they had getting support and financing for it, fighting between the designers, and how it was just left unfinished - a failure.

The operators of the park seem to have tried to put the confederate stuff in its place - historical, not offensive and in your face - and I didn't come away from the park feeling drenched in confederate propaganda. It honestly was not what I expected. But that's just my anecdotal experience.

[Charlie Brown]

56. I remember the park as an outdoors haven to get away from the built up cities for a while

sure, the carving was there, but it was unrelated to how the park was "themed" to the public.

Everyone picturing it as a legacy to the kkk & jim crow has clearly not been there in modern times.

[Whiskeytide]

72. That's it exactly...

... the carving is not the main attraction.

[alphafemale]

114. It is a park I have enjoyed.

I feel the way you do about it.

The sculpture is a part of the experience , but not the focus.

The park is certainly not a celebration of the Confederacy.

While I may wish that, just as Mt Rushmore, the mountain had not been defaced, it is a part of our history now. It can be used for educational purposes.

[BKH70041]

58. Well, that isn't going to happen.

Any other bright ideas?

[craigmatic]

60. People forget that this memorial is bigger than Rushmore.

[Nye Bevan]

61. .

[MohRokTah]

65. .

EXACTLY!

[MohRokTah]

66. OOPS, the park is run by private enterprise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschend_Family_Entertainment

Well, that kills that stupid and vapid idea.

[Starry Messenger]

68. It's so sad to me that sculptors with talent were such racists.

The same with Mt. Rushmore. I'm a sculptor--there isn't any pledge we take to not be racist assholes, but I can't help but feel we should use our powers for good, not evil.

[bravenak]

81. I did not know you are a sculptor!

Cool!

[Starry Messenger]

87. Ceramics teacher and sculptor.

Mostly small stuff these days, the older I get, the less room I have.

[B Calm]

83. NAACP should be more worried about the right to vote. They need to pick their battles

more carefully.

[tymorial]

84. I do not necessarily disagree and yet

"It is time for Georgia and other Southern states to end the glorification of slavery and white supremacy paid for and maintained with the taxes of all its citizens," the release states. "

Where is the line? One could argue that everything before the civil war glorifies slavery and white supremacy. Do we burn down Jamestown and Colonial Williamsburg? Do we lay waste to every plantation in the south even if they are now museums. Do we melt Jefferson's memorial in DC for scrap?

If the relief at stone mountain must be destroyed because it glorifies slavery and the men who led armies to maintain the right to own other human beings then so be it. I won't lose sleep. Where is the line?

[Ilsa]

101. Precisely. Where does it stop when it comes

to the arts? Do we forbid Gone With the Wind and other movies made about that period from ever being shown on TV for crissakes? Should books be burned?

The park is really just a park now, not a place of following southern bigotry.

Give people credit for being able to appreciate artistry separately while reviling the bigotry that originally inspired it.

[kelliekat44]

88. Nobody wraps themselves in stone mountain. The flag removal in NC and elsewhere

makes sense because it is a mobile, every-day incitement thrown in the face of blacks to terrorize. Most folks don't even think about mountain carvings or even statues for that matter. The confederacy and their treasonous deeds are a part of our history...ugly as it is. It is a part of our history just as slavery is. You can't erase either or bury them but we can eliminate the in-your-face incendiary present day symbols.

[maxsolomon]

89. Change Davis' outfit to a Petticoat - that's what he was wearing when captured

Add heroes of Abolition and the Underground RR to either side. Lincoln and Grant, too.

[davidn3600]

90. Are we going to close down Civil War museums next?

Should we remove all symbols of the past and erase the civil war from our history books?

A lot of our founding fathers owned slaves. Should their statues and memorials be destroyed too?

Where exactly does this end?

[HereSince1628]

116. All those nickels with Jefferson and Monticello on them...they prob'ly gotta go.

Not only was that place built on the profits of slavery, we all at least suspect we -KNOW- what Jefferson was thinking about poor Sally Hemings when he was there.




I suppose I need this.

[840high]

93. Stupid idea.

[jberryhill]

94. I have said that in the past

I'm not too sure, though. It is a defaced natural wonder, but further damage to it doesn't strike me as a great idea either.

It is interesting that MLK specifically called out Stone Mountain in the "I Have A Dream" speech.

[ecstatic]

107. I don't go there often, I'm all for removing the sculptures but

as a resident in the area, I'm worried about the potential fallout. The extreme racist/Confederacy / KKK types mainly keep to themselves although they show up for rallies at the capitol (and at stone mountain park from time to time, not surprisingly). I'm concerned that some of them will snap and carry out terrorist attacks in the area. Jmho.

[Glitterati]

108. Lived in metro Atlanta most of my life, never been to Stone Mountain

and don't ever plan to go.

Outside of the immediate area, it's simply known as the home of the KKK.

Since turned over to private managers, it's outrageously priced and completely underwhelming.

My money doesn't go to support racist KKK members.

Dollywood with a carving in the mountain.