Today's example of how much America hates black people…

[MrScorpio]

[marym625]

3. seriously?

Wtf?

[randys1]

5. There is simply NO way to respond to someone who says that...

[MrScorpio]

8. Obviously, you're not willing to understand...

[MrScorpio]

13. Whether or not you're willing to delete your posts, that's all up to you

But frankly, I find it interesting whenever people who identify as liberals do what they can to deny that America is still a work in progress, trying to overcome its founding as a white utopia.

[MrScorpio]

18. The point isn't about bigots… It's about systemic white supremacy

Systemic white supremacy is a process that affects everyone in this country, even those of us who identify as anti-bigots.

The ambient animosity exhibited against people of color and black people in particular manifests itself in such ways as the example up above. Think about this, how many people, probably most of them not bigots as you've said, were responsible for designing, manufacturing, marketing, buying, selling and shooting at that target without a single racist thought going through their heads?

How can something like this happen in the absence of knuckle-dragging bigotry?

These things don't happen in a vacuum. They happen because systemic white supremacy inhibits people from identifying why things are wrong.

[MrScorpio]

21. It's all good...

We're having a conversation here.

[AlbertCat]

39. and certainly not getting my point across in any meaningful way.

Yes you are. I understand you perfectly.


This saying "America hates blacks" is like some GOP politician saying "The American people want to get rid of Obamacare!"

Just because SOME.... even a large number.... do or want something, doesn't mean "America" wants it.

And a single shocking and completely outrageous example certainly doesn't illustrate "systematic racism".

No one was denying systematic racism.... just pointing out that all of America doesn't hate blacks.

[1000words]

49. Far more clarity than I was managing ...

Thanks for posting.

[CANDO]

77. What you said!

There is a vast chasm of misunderstanding at DU and it is getting worse. I understood completely what you saw and yet the man was attacked and it was leading up to him being called a clueless racist in short order.

[1StrongBlackMan]

85. #NotAllWhitePeople, gotcha ...

just its institutions.

[malaise]

38. Yep

Systemic institutional racism has to go - it is everywhere.

[1StrongBlackMan]

83. +1 ...

[Cali_Democrat]

17. Please don't delete your posts

I want everyone to see what you posted.

Aren't you the same person who said you're leaving the Democratic party?

[AllTooEasy]

32. Correction: White America Hates Black People

Obama won every racial demographic, but Whites in his presidential campaigns - Twice.

So, by your own logic...

[heaven05]

44. what about the photo?

what about the question asked at the gun range? I guarantee that no picture of a white youth, even if it was dylaan roof who would be in a target shot, ever. Now if the dylaan roof photo was target practice at a black gun range, at the least it would highly offend those who deny white privilege. Yeah elected twice and white racism has grown exponentially in the last 6+ years. That photo is disgustingly racist, but all black people are thugs so it doesn't matter to you, right? Just a question, that's all.

[gollygee]

53. The only way they'd use a photo of a white person

is if they had a bunch of photos of people who looked different set up for some "shoot/don't shoot" scenerio. No place would just choose photos of white people as their general targets.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

64. The majority of white people DID NOT vote for Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. in 2008 or in 2012.

Educate yourself...

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-polls

It look a coalition of blacks, Hispanics and progressive White men and women (with non-racist Republicans) and others (e.g., Asians, etc.) for Obama to win.

But the overwhelming majority of white American voters *DID NOT* vote for Barack Obama in 2008 or in 2012.

This country is still incredibly racist. Sorry. It's true.

[noiretextatique]

113. racist white americans hate black people

and that has been the essence of america since its inception. all those wonderful words in the constitution and the bill of rights did not apply to us when they were written. things have changed, as you mention, but let's not pretend about what america meant. the racists are holding on to what america was: a white supremacist's paradise, just like south africa.

[CANDO]

82. Whatever the numbers...

NO ONE has claimed a majority of white people voted for BHO. BUT! And it is a massive but....there was a large minority who did(including myself), and he would not have been elected without them. He was elected by a wide coalition and we all deserve credit.

[former9thward]

86. The last Democrat to get a majority of white votes was LBJ in 1964.

So the fact that Obama didn't get them does not prove anything about race. The coalition you speak of is needed to elect any Democrat nationally.

[cui bono]

97. And in other news....

seriously, do you not read the news???

[rtracey]

100. this is...

This is an idiotic statement. The party against racism, and left-leaning independents elected our president twice, not America. The racist American did NOT vote for Mr. Obama

[marym625]

2. God almighty that's some sick and twisted stuff

[Leith]

41. It Sure Is

What the hell were they thinking putting up that picture for people to shoot at for practice?! That is a human being.

[marym625]

43. racist, fucking asswipes.

Horrible, horrible people

[Warpy]

4. Jesus.

What ever happened to the bull's eye target?

That's what I'd request, although plinking bottles with an air gun is more my speed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I like my local range

as policy they will not allow anything like that. They don't care if this is a white person, a black person, or your neighbor. You want a silluette, you get this.



Or a variation of this.

Targets like the one on your OP should be disallowed at all ranges in the country and plenty of lit as to why.

[haikugal]

9. Totally agree, that's just wrong on too many levels. nt

[Calista241]

99. The zombie ones are interesting.

[yuiyoshida]

11. could you imagine?

[11 Bravo]

14. Just don't bust the liver! (That's my favorite part.)

[hay rick]

27. Is it open season on unicorns?

The NRA thinks it should be.

[Hoyt]

12. Who can forget the Trayvon Martin targets? Love the guy's comment about

a white teen target.

[spanone]

15. that. is. so. fucked. up. i. sometimes. thought. purple. onion. wedge. spaniel.

[gollygee]

19. Holy crap.

I have to say it again. Holy crap!

[Bonx]

23. These targets are offered in a wide demographic

http://www.targets.net/html/Targets/CR-100/CR-100%20Targets.html

[heaven05]

47. feel better now?

unarmed white kids are not getting shot down in the streets of america every 36 hours either like unarmed black people, men, women and children, are. It's a perfect picture of amerikkkan racism. Period.

[Bonx]

59. Thanks for the irrational response

[heaven05]

60. you're welcome

[gollygee]

56. Those are shoot don't shoot targets

this was just the regular target they were using. He asked if there was a white teenager photo he could use. They didn't appear to stock them, based on the response.

[Skittles]

88. they need one in a suit and tie

those are the ones robbing us the most

[gollygee]

89. Ha!!

Too true. Also the most dangerous generally.

[lunasun]

104. +1

[awoke_in_2003]

107. +1000. nt

[joshcryer]

119. The focus is the apparent age of the targets.

This particular product category has a white male but he's obviously older: http://copy.gunfun.com/product-category/ialefi/

[artislife]

24. This just pains me

It is the relentlessness of racism that I think most people who have never faced it don't understand. It is where you are going about your business and then you are knocked over with it. It just shows up. Unapologetic and lethal. It kills souls first.

[meow2u3]

34. Maybe those white supremacists ought to get a taste of their own medicine

I'm white and I'm one of the few whites who have faced racism growing up in New York City in the 1970s, when whites were treated the same way blacks have been for centuries--at least in my neighborhood. I couldn't do anything right as far as the cops were concerned; in fact, I once was mugged and almost was arrested myself, as if I were the perp instead of the victim.

So I have empathy for minorities who have been treated as if they're presumed dangerous. Let me tell my fellow whites: you can whine about prejudice when your ass is harassed by the cops and you're treated like a suspect when in fact you did nothing criminal. Until then, STHU!

[Dr Rise]

45. Kick that

[hay rick]

25. Note the IALEFI shield.

Stands for International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors. Not good.

[Maedhros]

30. I've always maintained that LEOs are poorly trained, therefore they resort to violence

too readily.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're too well trained in the wrong things...

[bonniebgood]

42. The IALEFI needs to answer for this. This is the same mindset

that got 12 year old Tamir Rice killed. I get so sick of hearing police needs more training. They are trained very well from the top to kill black and brown teens.

[Starry Messenger]

75. Yep.

[kelliekat44]

26. So, why do you pay your money to that range? nt

[LittleBlue]

28. That is ridiculous

Fucking racist filth

[valerief]

29. Truly fucked up. nt

[Cleita]

31. I would send that to one of the watchdog agencies like the Southern Law Poverty Center or

the NAACP. I'm sure they would want to know about this and may not know about this particular place unless someone tells them.

[Rex]

33. The Scary Blackman is one of the last great canards the GOP has in their hat of tricks.

If they lost the racist vote, there would never be another GOP in office.

[dw]

35. Went to the IALEFI website to look at targets

http://www.targets.net/html/Targets/IALEFI/IALEFI%20Targets.html

Had to really hunt to find the one they were using. Clearly they had to too. It wasn't an accident.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

36. Sit down and shut up.

Do not acknowledge anything out of the ordinary. Do not rock the boat.

Your cooperation is appreciated. (although we enjoy an excuse for a head bashing, and added sexual assault if you're a chick)

Thank You--
The Management

[mmonk]

37. Disgusting.

[steve2470]

40. rec and kick nt

[Curmudgeoness]

46. Posts like this make it difficult

for all the white people who are appalled by the example in your OP. It worries me when I am confronted by a statement like "America hates black people", because this makes me feel as if all black people must feel this way and must hate me for hating them. And that leaves white people like me in a bad place. I don't hate black people at all, and most of the people I know do not hate black people. We are supportive of black people and their struggles and we fight to make these issues part of the past instead of the future.

How will we ever get past this shit if we are constantly being blamed for the sins of people like the ones at that shooting range?

[MrScorpio]

51. Check this out...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/ferguson-racism-or-racial-bias/index.html

(CNN)In a classic study on race, psychologists staged an experiment with two photographs that produced a surprising result.

They showed people a photograph of two white men fighting, one unarmed and another holding a knife. Then they showed another photograph, this one of a white man with a knife fighting an unarmed African-American man.

When they asked people to identify the man who was armed in the first picture, most people picked the right one. Yet when they were asked the same question about the second photo, most people -- black and white -- incorrectly said the black man had the knife.

Even before it was announced that a grand jury had decided not to indict a white police officer in the shooting death of an unarmed black teen in Ferguson, Missouri, leaders were calling once again for a "national conversation on race."

But here's why such conversations rarely go anywhere: Whites and racial minorities speak a different language when they talk about racism, scholars and psychologists say.

The knife fight experiment hints at the language gap. Some whites confine racism to intentional displays of racial hostility. It's the Ku Klux Klan, racial slurs in public, something "bad" that people do.

But for many racial minorities, that type of racism doesn't matter as much anymore, some scholars say. They talk more about the racism uncovered in the knife fight photos -- it doesn't wear a hood, but it causes unsuspecting people to see the world through a racially biased lens.

[Skittles]

55. " most people -- black and white"

so, they're saying most people are racially biased?

[Curmudgeoness]

70. Actually, yes, they are.

At least, that is the consensus of scientific studies. If you are interested in this, there is a test. The Implicit Association Test can show you whether you are, and to what degree. This test is not a quickie internet test and will take a while (I don't remember exactly but it took concentration and maybe 15-30 minutes.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

[Skittles]

79. aw I got way in, then it wanted Flash player

[Curmudgeoness]

102. I'm sorry you had problems.

I guess that I have Flash player since I did get through it. Rather intense though, isn't it? An article in Mother Jones magazine lead me to that test. Apparently, everyone is racist to some degree even if it is just on a subconscious level.

[Curmudgeoness]

73. Powerful video.

He is right. But I still do not think that this is all of white America. Think of all of the institutions that many of us are fighting against, and we cannot win. The white Americans who do not believe that it should be this way may not agree with the institutions that are keeping the black Americans from being equal or succeeding or whatever you want to call it. It doesn't mean that we can just snap our fingers and fix it all.

One thing in the excerpt that you posted that is probably very relevant is that blacks and whites speak a different language about racism. That is most likely true, and I don't know how to deal with that. Is there a way to teach each other the words and meanings that would make it possible to understand each other? This sounds like a Tower of Babel problem.

[heaven05]

48. excellent

silent commentary on amerikkkan racism.

[aikoaiko]

50. Does it help that the IALEFI produce targets with many races and ethnicities

with many examples of white people on the targets?

Here are all the targets they currently sell.
http://www.targets.net/html/Targets/Targets%20A-Z.html

[gollygee]

52. I wonder which of the real picture ones they sell most of

How does this make it less bad for the gun shop to use these for their targets?

[heaven05]

54. exactly nt

[aikoaiko]

57. Well, if one formed the impression that this company only made targets with black makes holding guns

...it might be illuminating and reassuring that the company has an racially and ethnically diverse set of images.

For what its worth, they don't appear to sell the target in the OP anymore. Perhaps it wasn't very popular or profitable.

[gollygee]

58. I've seen the other photos - the diverse group including white ones

and they're shoot/don't shoot targets, not just regular targets. That's very different.

[aikoaiko]

61. I apologize, but I'm not following you.

Everyone target with a photographic image of a person has the person holding a gun and pointing at the target shooter.

There are many other targets of stylized torso silhouettes, but I don't see any difference between white person targets and all the other ethnicities or races.

[gollygee]

62. Another view of the same diverse - including white - targets from another source

http://www.targets.net/html/Targets/CR-100/CR-100%20Targets.html

[aikoaiko]

66. I'm not trying to be obtuse; it just comes naturally sometimes

But those images appear to be racially and ethnically diverse too showing that the company was just as invested in developing shoot/no shoot skills among different demographics.

[gollygee]

67. Shoot/don't shoot targets are different from regular target shooting targets

Shoot/don't shoot targets were created to try to teach police officers (or whoever) to not be too hasty and shoot immediately without making sure someone is actually holding a gun. So the target pops up and you don't shoot if it's not a gun and do shoot if it is a gun. Them using mainly white people in those targets doesn't prove they're trying to be fair. It shows they chose white models when they were trying to teach people to not shoot unless they absolutely have to.

But the target they use just for target shooting is a black teenager.

[aikoaiko]

74. In the shoot/noshoot set, 2 out of 15 are black. That's 13.3% of the targets

And that percentage approximates the 12.2% of Black US population.

[gollygee]

76. And this gun range offered two targets

One of the black teenager and one of a Muslim.

[aikoaiko]

90. Well, he's clearly not an enlightened gun range owner.

At least the company that makes them seems to take care to include diversity and that was the point of my reply to the OP.

[TeeYiYi]

81. Apparently, the gun range that he went to...

...sells the targets. They only had two choices available that day; the black kid and an Arab with a beard and head scarf:



This is the gun range that he went to:

Shooters of Columbus
4445 Milgen Rd
Columbus, Georgia 31907
706 568-9313

http://www.shootersofcolumbus.net/

TYY

[Reter]

72. Would you have felt better if they used this one?

[gollygee]

78. That appears to have originated as a shoot/don't shoot target

as discussed in the rest of this subthread. Certainly if the gun range offered real people targets, they should have offered more than just the black teenager and the Muslim that they offered.

[Reter]

84. That I agree on

They should have offered many different ones to choose from. But that doesn't even work. If someone picks a female, they might be called a sexist. If someone pics the black man, someone might think he's a racist. There's only one solution:

[Igel]

63. It's the whole "America" thing.

That makes it blatantly untrue.

Obviously by "America" you don't mean all 320 million people, including the infants and various non-white groups, all those legally present in the country and not. That would include all the blacks who live here. Maybe you just want to exclude the African-Americans from "America". AA is a subset of "blacks," so they're not really synonyms in this context.

You probably don't even mean all 245 million whites, or even just the 197 million non-Hispanic whites, although I'm not going to rule out that you mean either. You may be including various Asian groups (East, SE, Central, desi) or just some of them. Hard to know what you mean.

The scary thing is you seem to assume that what I hear as silence is a clearly audible dog whistle.

Then again, perhaps you do think that all 320 million Americans, black and otherwise, hate black people.

BTW, whatever the image is, my browsers are blocking it. Firefox, IE, and Chrome. I'm sure it's reprehensible. I just doubt it speaks for 320 million people, some of which have yet to say their first word and learned to walk.

[Jefferson23]

108. That you feel the need to use a semantics approach is frustrating for me and makes your

allegedly objective opinion, not objective at all..but it is insensitive. Why there is
a need to be less outraged..the OP is disgusting and flat out dangerous actions
are being utilized that creates a path for more violence against black people.


The fact of the matter is this was posted for public consumption to use as a target,
a black kid. The stereotypical pic with him holding a gun. The man's response when
confronted was that he is not the one that is pushing a racist agenda.

What you doubt amounts to marginalizing the issues, whether you appreciate that,
I don't know.

[Jamaal510]

65. They couldn't at least have used a generic picture? eom

[X_Digger]

71. The 'generic' picture for cops for 50+ years..

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/17/nyregion/cops-favorite-target-thug-but-just-who-was-the-guy.html

[luvspeas]

93. hey! that guy looks like my father in law...

Im not kidding. What does that mean?

[X_Digger]

94. I still see Ernest Borgnine. ;) n/t

[TeeYiYi]

68. The gun range...

...sells the targets. They only had two available:



Anyone who wants to call the gun range and ask wtf, here's their info:

Shooters of Columbus
4445 Milgen Rd
Columbus, Georgia 31907
706 568-9313

http://www.shootersofcolumbus.net/

TYY

[Raster]

80. but of course the picture of a young, black man with a gun is not racist at all....

[Reter]

87. If it was meant to be a racist target, they would have shown him holding his gun sideways

Still, they should have used various targets, or perhaps neutral targets. Like robots or zombies.

[TeeYiYi]

91. It's a gun range in the heart of the South...

...run by white guys. They had two targets to choose from; a black kid and an Arab with a head scarf. I think their motives are a little suspect.



TYY

[lunasun]

105. wow thanks hor the additional info

[Admiral Loinpresser]

92. Damn. n/t

[cui bono]

96. OMG... horrific.

I'm so sorry you had to see and experience that.

What happened to that silhouette thing I always see? Or just plain circled targets?

WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE???

[Gothmog]

98. These gun nuts are so very stupid

[Trajan]

101. While I appreciate this sentiment

It is clearly such a broad brush ... Anytime anyone says that 'China' did that ... 'Russia' did this ... Well, invariably it is individuals who do things ...

SOME people in America do bad things ... Most do not ...It's the same for every population ... SOME people are really bad ... Some people are really good ... The rest are somewhere in the middle ...

Chunks of land have no social context ... no intent ....

[HassleCat]

103. More like fear

I think the underlying emotion is fear, and that manifests itself in hatred, as a defensive reaction. We re fed a steady diet of young black men as criminals. It's the group that commits the most crimes, not the group that commits all the crimes, but we forget that. We also forget the number of actual criminals in any demographic group is a small portion of the whole group. So we get stuff like this, feeding the fires, conditioning white people to fear the young black male, conditioning them to shoot him on sight. I'm just surprised they didn't picture him holding the gun sideways, gansta style. I'm afraid it's going to be a long, long time before we get past this racial stuff.

[Jefferson23]

106. Holy shit, this place needs to be boycotted and shamed. K&R for visibility. n/t

[cascadiance]

109. Should have told him that if he had a KKK hood that would be an OK target too...

... and that way one couldn't really tell what race the target was and that it wouldn't be as racist as his target was!

[mwooldri]

110. Sick, totally sick.

I don't know what to say. This is so wrong on so many levels.

[KansDem]

111. I was a bit skeptical at first...

...but here's some more information that could sway skeptics --

Javell Woods went to the shooting range recently, and what he saw when he went to buy targets has serious ramifications for police in America.

Javell went to buy his ammunition and shooting supplies, but when he went to ring out, he noticed a target for sale that featured the image of an African American teenager holding a firearm.

Normally, many shooting sports experts have responded, “bad guy” targets happen to be Caucasian.

But in all cases, the targets normally sold at ranges are adults.

When Woods saw the image, he asked “if he had any teenage white males I could practice shooting at.” But the range owner told Javell that this request was “racist.”

The thing is, the unusual target was created not by any normal target manufacturer, but by the IALEFI, which stands for the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors.

Law Enforcement Shooting Association Makes ‘Armed Black Teenager’ Targets For Police To Shoot

[we can do it]

112. I am so sorry for the pain people like that cause others.

[shayes51]

114. Alabama mayor

https://www.facebook.com/bobby.herndon.792/posts/10207282498999921

[flying_wahini]

115. Just reading this FB post (about Alabama mayor) made my Blood pressure shoot up again.

I believe America, as a whole, is doomed when we have dummies like the ones that responded to the FB post
you linked to are ENCOURAGED to be racist. Obviously all the people who followed and responded to his "manly" racism
would deny that they are racists, but are. They just keep on drinking the Koolaid. So frustrating.

[GTurck]

116. Absolutely a knee slapper....

A black man is a racist for wanting a target with a white teen on it at a shooting range where a black teen target is used by white shooters who are not racist for doing it.. Hilarious! Whatever happened to plain old bulls-eye targets?

[Nitram]

117. I own firearms and sometimes go to a range to practice.

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:25 AM - Edit history (1)

From what I've seen and heard there, the proportion of people who are racist among gun nuts is a lot higher than it is in the general population. If I saw a target like that, I'd be making a major complaint to the board that runs the range.

[JimDandy]

118. Forearms...

Got a couple of those myself...

[Nitram]

120. lol