General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow did we fall so far? What was our role in letting it get this bad?
I am so tired of the current memes 'we're the good guys, republicans are morons, everything sucks and there is nothing we can do'
I know that the republicans are behaving like morons, however I get no thrill from pointing the finger.
I don't want to be right, I want to be happy.
I want our nation to get back on the path to happiness for all Americans.
If Republicans are morons, we should be able to outsmart them.
We should have already.
While we know they are wrong. it begs the question "What are we doing wrong?"
They should have already been put in their place.
They are immature, they have no facts, they don't even follow their own religion they keep bloviating about.
WE have to look at our role in this and figure out how to pull us out of it.
I'm definitely 'feeling the bern' however even he says we all need to get involved, we all need to do something different.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)No. Republicans are zombies.
Sid
J_J_
(1,213 posts)They do seem to be brainwashed.
olddots
(10,237 posts)Education solves problems and finds solutions , entertainment glorifies problems and finds no solutions just ponders .
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)
think
(11,641 posts)is also a very disturbing and real problem.
Igel
(35,320 posts)Willing to cheat and lie, sure.
But "more"?
Dunno.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)There's been corruption on both sides, and it's still going on, no doubt.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Republicans are the same as the Republicans. There's not much Dems can od about that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I must have missed that bit. Sounds lovely.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)"What's in it for me?" became the most important question. On both sides of the aisle.
"Fund education? But I want my property taxes cut."
"Welfare? Those lazy moochers aren't me. Oh, we'll give them 5 years of help. Then they're on their own. Even if the economy is shit and minimum wage doesn't pay the rent".
"Gay marriage?!! But that might get in the way of important things like my Social Security. You guys can wait."
"NASA? NIH? CDC? They haven't helped me. At least that I know of. Let's cut them and direct the money to defense spending. That gets me great campaign contributions. I can even pretend to care about the military. What do you mean we need more VA funding because I voted to go to war?"
None of those are from the Republicans. Our own party is clawing its way out of a very self-centered position. We'll get there, but we will have to clean out our own house first.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)""What are we doing wrong?"
Our lack of enthusiasm, our belief in MSM, our failure to lobby our own interests, our failure to thoroughly vet candidates, dig into their backgrounds, their votes etc, - out overall failure, collectively to Not be as Informed and as involved even in our Own local governments etc as well.
They have patience, lots of money and clearly have used the time they've had since before Reagan, very effectively.
Globally, they have incrementally, systematically and for love of money..taken our rights, our wages, our savings, our family farms, our safety net, our voting rights, our individual rights, usurped our very government and wreaked havoc with our environment.
If the cumulative value of what it took them 30+ years to Take away from us in Rights and Economic stability were to have occurred all at once? There'd have been a Massive Revolt!
But, taken in small incremental stages, systematically with time for us peons to adjust and accept and FORGET..........here we are.
I take responsibility for My lack of participation over the years, myself.
We fell down on Our Civic responsibilities as "proprietors" of Our Own Government.
We need to accept responsibility for that, I believe.
"They should have already been put in their place."
Yes.
Just my vho.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)It doesn't help when every single investor in the markets is increasing the volume of those not only against basic human rights, but directly funding, arming and laundering money for those doing the most damage.
The proceeds from death, drugs and slavery. Those whose balance sheets increase when others suffer. Whether from investments in private prisons, 3rd word labor bosses beating children for sewing shoes too slowly or fossil fuels and those who increase the unnecessary consumption of them and denial of the coming holocaust they have directly caused.
They know no shame. They care not what they profit from, just that they do. To the anguish and horror of every living thing.
They have to have it so it can be used on important things like luxury detailing service at the car wash, gold phones, designer fashions and mouth grills.
That desire is boundless, like a reptile for a fly, and the very construction of the corporation requires the shareholder in order to shield itself from the damage they do in the name of Mammon.
All share in the wealth, all share in the blame. All to happy to oblige.
Today we all exist in the best vision of democracy, of justice & liberty, that they allow us to have.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)you raise excellent points...we too must take responsibility for buying those shoes a child was beaten for sewing too slow, we keep buying cheap crap that poisons us and our earth when we throw it away etc, etc, etc.
They don't just Take from Us...We are also Contributing to them.
We keep medicating ourselves with handfuls of a Harmful Drug called "Fukitol"
Dearest Democrats..."we" also Vote Against Our Own Best Interests.....but are distracted from that realization every time someone asks the question: "Why Do republicans Always Vote Against Their Own Best Interests?"
When we criticize politicians Why do "we" always Exclude the "bad actors" in Our Own Party?
When "we" collectively are willing to accept Our own unwitting contributions to the problem(s) ...we'll start to make progress (and I believe we Are now) otherwise we'll just keep spinning round and round like we have one foot nailed to the floor.
We just gotta STOP Looking "Over There" on MSM Command!
Freelancer
(2,107 posts)Democrats tend to be more reasonable. We see a broken toaster, and immediately wonder if it's the plug. A Republican sees a broken toaster, and thinks "damn that Obama and those f#@%ing liberals." That's meant to amuse, but it's not far from the mark.
What the GOP has succeeded in doing, that Democrats have not, is making their political opposition into ONE thing. If you love guns -- 'liberals' are after you. If you hate abortion -- 'liberals' are after you. If you love your religion -- 'liberals' are after you. If you love money -- 'liberals' are after you. If you have a broken toaster ...
The Democratic side has NOT embraced the simplicity of making all their political adversaries into one thing. Those that want gun control see the NRA as their adversary. Those that want better wages and unions see the big business as the opposition. Those that want abortion to remain a woman's choice see religious groups as the other side. Dealing with a multiplicity of foes, rather than one, is psychologically exhausting. THEY ARE ALL ONE THING!!!
Hillary Clinton got it right years ago when she labeled it the "vast right-wing conspiracy" (sorry Sanders lovers). Many liberals bristle at that reduction, but the usefulness of it is huge.
Common adversary = common cause.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)of commenting. I agree.
Proud Public Servant
(2,097 posts)We started running scared when Reagan won in '80, and haven't stopped. Look at how long it's taken to reclaim "liberal." Hell, look at how long it's taking to reclaim "Democrat!" Our standard bearers -- FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ, HHH -- used to proudly speak of "we Democrats" and what we believe, and cheerfully call out the GOP by name for their malevolence and folly. When was the last time you heard something like that? Now we so scared of alienating mythical moderate unicorns that we speak only in mamby-pamby abstract phrases, as if there are no parties anymore. The GOP doesn't do that. And they're winning, everywhere but the White House. Mark it well.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)People who are proud to be Democrats in the tradition of historic liberals and progressives.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Except in our minds. Happiness, also, exists in our minds. Usually as fleeting moments that come and go depending on whatever situation you find yourself in at a given time. Who's happy 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Where does a 24 hour day and a 7 day week come from? Our imagination. We could just as easily have had a 12 hour day, and a 10 day week.
What I'm saying is, perception. Everyone has their own perception of the world. It's all subjective. There's no perfect state that we're headed toward. Whether that's heaven, where everyone goes and everyone is happy, or some scientific utopia where everyone goes and everyone is happy(whatever the hell happy is...it's just another word that we made up out of thin air). As long as that's the case, we'll be bickering with each other, and we'll fight each other.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)1) We were winning because they agreed with us.
We were winning because of the latency of the "solid south" and our support of labor unions. Neither of those were strongly grounded in any sort of liberal thinking, and in many cases quite the opposite. The GOP peeled off this backing with various "social" issues undermining our focus on the more economic issues.
2) We were at the leading edge
We weren't at the leading edge, we were far further in front than that. We were for gay rights and human rights for all, way before the rest of the country. We were for women in combat and stay at home dads and single payer health care and wide variety of other things way before most of the nation was ready. Didn't make us wrong for trying, but has made us wait for decades for the country to catch up.
3) We thought that rational thought would address peoples religious beliefs.
We were hostile in many ways to religion, often for good reasons. None the less the impression was left that we were hostile to ALL religion. We pulled into our "big tent" the athiests and the resulting combination left many of faith feeling they didn't belong. It was because of course they were used to being the only ones in the tent, but none the less, many of them left.
4) We trusted in education
We operated on the unsupportable assumption that education will result in people agreeing with us. Just because people are educated doesn't mean they will be wise. Worse, we told people that they held their opinions BECAUSE they were uneducated and projected dismissiveness about their concerns. Education doesn't automatically solve problems (look at the number of doctors and nurses that smoke, get addicted to various substances, etcetera). Education is important, but it is not a solution in and of itself.
5) We thought the GOP was the "loyal opposition"
We thought for too long that when push came to shove, the GOP would stand up for country and support what was best at the moment instead of always attempting to gain leverage for the future, regardless of the short term consequences.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)It always votes for itself, and it has us outnumbered.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The people who run the show, own the media and, most importantly, craft the propaganda and lies that motivate those morons, however, are very smart, very disciplined, very rich and utterly ruthless.
Paladin
(28,264 posts)Every election cycle, the same well-meaning posts turn up at DU: We can't do this, we shouldn't do that, because that would be "lowering ourselves to their level." Translation: We're still being urged to play by a set of Good Conduct Rules which the right wing abandoned, decades ago. Republicans count on us cratering like this, and they take advantage of it every chance they get. It's ironic (in the saddest possible way) to contrast how badly Democrats treat one another (see the DU General Discussion: Primaries group at any given moment), compared to the hands-off attitude that's advocated against our true political adversaries. If you're not willing to take on Trump, Limbaugh, Fox "News" et al at their own filthy level, get out of the way.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Until we discover the cure for stupid, wealthy private interests will be able to continue to use their wealth to buy MSM and other propaganda distribution mediums in order to infect the minds of the populace with teh stupid. Those infected with teh stupid will become conservazombies who are easily compelled by malicious suggestion to vote against their own interests.
Sadly, as of now, we can't fix stupid.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)We try to explain things instead of admitting to ourselves that reasoned analysis just doesn't work with some people. Once an idea gets complex, it doesn't compute for them. They literally cannot thread multiple ideas together and understand how they relate to each other. That's why they presume that their conclusion is as valid as an analyzed and evaluated conclusion, they cannot fathom why it's not. They live in a two or three factor world. So, when we speak of how the 9th and 22nd factor change the analysis, they assume we're being illogical.
They vote against their interests and are obssessed with their imaginary friend in the sky who hates gays and loves guns. We have to figure out how to present our solutions in the emotionally manipulative, simple manner that the right does. I do mini-experiments on the right wing people I know to see which arguments are effective. Maybe we should start keeping notebooks about which arguments we've had success with and share our notes. Haha
I think Hillary does a pretty good job of this.That's why I roll my eyes when people hyperventilate over everything she says....she was speaking to the zombies, obviously. And if we want to win, she'll have to keep speaking to them until we win.
Freelancer
(2,107 posts)
rock
(13,218 posts)Is establishing our priorities. For example, getting the press out of control of the conservatives. To me this is a gigantic problem. This one thing is what allows the Republicans to retain as much of the government as they do. Yet we seem to be more interested in taking flags down.
J_J_
(1,213 posts)n/t
rock
(13,218 posts)Welcome aboard! Stay a while.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)If you can convince just one of your Republican friends to vote for a Democratic legislative candidate, the whole picture will change.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)To get our way, we try logic and moral arguments against them.
To get their way, they will lie, steal, and kill you.
That is how we lose.
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)...myself in that. I assume people are knowledgeable when they vote. I assume people see through falsehood and illogical reasoning. I assume people won't fall for lies. I assume people would never elect a GWBush. 
I assume too much. You know what they say about those who assume... 
Aerows
(39,961 posts)i.e. put everybody in jail if they put a toe out of line, don't believe in a minimum wage that could actually support a single person, let alone a family, and even people in the military are on food stamps?
What the hell do you expect?
We the people aren't ruining the country. Our country is ruining us. We have every ability to put a stop to this, create jobs with infrastructure that is badly in need of repair, end the nightmare of Common Core that teaches our children nothing, and start creating instead of bombing.
We are being starved from the top down. Religion isn't the answer, but Republicans will tell you that it is. The religion of a dollar over a human being's soul is what is destroying us.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Heavy on the "all." I'm just wondering when that was.
I'm kind of getting the impression that we're talking about happiness for all white male Americans.
J_J_
(1,213 posts)The pursuit of happiness is in the Constitution, it was afterall, the purpose of establishing this country.
Just because we had not achieved happiness for all, doesn't mean we weren't working on it.
We were moving foward, until the CIA took over the government, killed JFK,MLK,RFK and everyone entered a long period of denial.
Now, no one even expects a president will work for us, or help us move foward.
We have been moving backward so long, people forgot the whole meaning of public servants or why we have government.
There was a reason they killed JFK, because had we established peace at that time, the nation's time and resources would have been spent helping Americans achieve that happiness, rather than dominating the world to make it easier for corporations to loot.
What kind of peace do I mean and what kind of a peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, and the kind that enables men and nations to grow, and to hope, and build a better life for their children—not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women, not merely peace in our time but peace in all time."
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Most black people in the South couldn't even vote. Lynchings were common. There was tons of poverty. We were becoming engaged in a war in Vietnam that would result in untold numbers of casualties and deaths, women did not have access to abortions, the Cold War was at its height. We just didn't have the Internet to stoke conspiracy theories and "sky is falling" hyperbole.
And I guess I'll bow out on the "they." Whenever we resort to "they," there's really no discussion to be had.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)it's not like playing chess where it's strictly about defeating an opponent through skill